Guild Wars 2

The combat has been very clean and the fighting inside towers and keeps has been really fun. There have been no arrow carts which means that it’s all about the combat co-ordination of players, and no reliance on a 1 button win from arrow carts.

I think that Arrow carts are way too overpowered at the moment, and were much more balanced against troops and more useful at countering siege before they initially buffed the damage.

What do other people think?

Spoken like someone from a server with numbers.

Hematuria.4051:

Spoken like someone from a server with numbers.

I was gonna say the opposite. It’s boring stealing the same structure back and forth time and time again. Defense is simply a game of “who has more players on the map, or the more well-disciplined zerg” now.

Siege is a huge party of this game. The fact that we can’t use it ruins that side of the game.

Open field combat is the best part of this game. (I hate Spvp/Tpvp with a passion because you need to hold points….. = BORING)
this bug makes things more fun because you actually fight real players instead of having to worry about siege hitting you.

Except the glitch doesn’t affect every server. In the case of FC we’re the only server currently affected by the glitch(at least on our home BL and EB) and we also have an opponent (HoD) who has vastly superior numbers to us and has no qualms in taking advantage of our inability to properly defend ourselves. The glitch doesn’t make the game more fun for everyone and generally is frustrating to those actually trying to play it.

Cirus.5748:

The combat has been very clean and the fighting inside towers and keeps has been really fun. There have been no arrow carts which means that it’s all about the combat co-ordination of players, and no reliance on a 1 button win from arrow carts.

I think that Arrow carts are way too overpowered at the moment, and were much more balanced against troops and more useful at countering siege before they initially buffed the damage.

What do other people think?

Yeah all you have to do now stack up your far superior zergs, aim, run and then just steamroll the handful of defenders from your matchups contingent… its super brill now don’t ya think.. promotes real skill and tactical awareness…. unless of course your on one the many servers where the matchups are so out of sync and the numbers on map are so wildly out of balance it soon becomes laborious WP’ing and running back for another dose of faceplant.

Brando.1374:

Open field combat is the best part of this game. (I hate Spvp/Tpvp with a passion because you need to hold points….. = BORING)
this bug makes things more fun because you actually fight real players instead of having to worry about siege hitting you.

“Open field combat is the best part of this game.” <3

Although I like OP arrow carts cause they make it easier to defend towers with smaller numbers against unorganized zergs^ O ^)/!
But all this no siege has been encouraging alot more open field fights which are always the best~

Regular AC’s are not op. They can still barely do damage to an army and don’t do much to slow down an attack. Unless of course you have 12 of them like what certain people were complaining about. However, I have never seen 12 ac’s set up in my tier.

There is definitely a difference between higher and lower tiers opinions on this matter. Just the other day, we had 4 ac’s set up and they did kitten to defend agains a golem rush. May as well have just sat there and not built them. This was in a T3 fortified gate.

They need to make AC’s damage Golems more. Or make Golems damage gates less (which is my preference). The rate at which golems can melt even a fortified gate is rediculous. You may as well have a bunch of Quaggans stacked up in the archway.

if you like mindless farming zergs with no skill then yes.

Johje Holan.4607:

Regular AC’s are not op. They can still barely do damage to an army and don’t do much to slow down an attack. Unless of course you have 12 of them like what certain people were complaining about. However, I have never seen 12 ac’s set up in my tier.

There is definitely a difference between higher and lower tiers opinions on this matter. Just the other day, we had 4 ac’s set up and they did kitten to defend agains a golem rush. May as well have just sat there and not built them. This was in a T3 fortified gate.

They need to make AC’s damage Golems more. Or make Golems damage gates less (which is my preference). The rate at which golems can melt even a fortified gate is rediculous. You may as well have a bunch of Quaggans stacked up in the archway.

If it’s numerous golems than yeah of course they’re gonna rush through a gate. I don’t really see the problem. Golems cost a boatload of supply to build but they really aren’t that difficult to take down., more requires persistence and focus on the golems. But if there are a lot of them rushing you than I think it’d be pretty difficult to overcome them by design.

It’s terrible. We just had 240 People fighting at the same spot for like 30 minute and you couldn’t do anything. Not even auto-attack is working.
Also every Server is running around with 10 Golems now :/

KillEveryoneElse.3940:

if you like mindless farming zergs with no skill then yes.

^.

Especially when you can still build golems to just steamroll through everything and you can build siege for defences. Making it so you don’t have to think in WvW about tactics and gameplay is stupid.

WvW was my last haven with something I still regularly enjoyed with GW2, it’s not enjoyable at this point.

Johje Holan.4607:

Regular AC’s are not op. They can still barely do damage to an army and don’t do much to slow down an attack. Unless of course you have 12 of them like what certain people were complaining about. However, I have never seen 12 ac’s set up in my tier.

There is definitely a difference between higher and lower tiers opinions on this matter. Just the other day, we had 4 ac’s set up and they did kitten to defend agains a golem rush. May as well have just sat there and not built them. This was in a T3 fortified gate.

They need to make AC’s damage Golems more. Or make Golems damage gates less (which is my preference). The rate at which golems can melt even a fortified gate is rediculous. You may as well have a bunch of Quaggans stacked up in the archway.

idk, i don’t like the idea of arrow’s killing rams and golems. Kinda wish Balista’s wern’t so completely useless in how they have to be placed, they make great anti siege weapons. . sometimes. =/

JudgeRAW.4632:

Johje Holan.4607:

Regular AC’s are not op. They can still barely do damage to an army and don’t do much to slow down an attack. Unless of course you have 12 of them like what certain people were complaining about. However, I have never seen 12 ac’s set up in my tier.

There is definitely a difference between higher and lower tiers opinions on this matter. Just the other day, we had 4 ac’s set up and they did kitten to defend agains a golem rush. May as well have just sat there and not built them. This was in a T3 fortified gate.

They need to make AC’s damage Golems more. Or make Golems damage gates less (which is my preference). The rate at which golems can melt even a fortified gate is rediculous. You may as well have a bunch of Quaggans stacked up in the archway.

If it’s numerous golems than yeah of course they’re gonna rush through a gate. I don’t really see the problem. Golems cost a boatload of supply to build but they really aren’t that difficult to take down., more requires persistence and focus on the golems. But if there are a lot of them rushing you than I think it’d be pretty difficult to overcome them by design.

Except that you can build them at a supply camp, waypoint them, and then port them right to the gate.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Making it so you don’t have to think in WvW about tactics and gameplay is stupid.

WvW was my last haven with something I still regularly enjoyed with GW2, it’s not enjoyable at this point.

I think the game needs to find a middle ground, because for me I have played more in the last two days than I have in the previous two weeks. I love the bug. For you this is not enjoyable, and yet we both want tactics, strategy and intelligent play.

way more fun last couple of days, even on a server with constantly outmanned buff, at least I’m dying to players, not machines.

Kind of boring. Not enough crap that hurts is hitting me. I feel as safe as a kitten(I really typed this word on purpose and isn’t a filter) on her mom’s teet.

That bug is clearly great for BG. You don’t need to fight anymore, you can zerg roll everything with numbers and golem rush without having to think about it or just pvdoor.

I wonder why Anet just didn’t close wvw for this issue. It’s not worth playing that way.

Please don’t fix this bug. Remove golems so that the bigger server can’t just burn gates down in seconds. Open field fighting>siege wars

The bug favors servers willing to pay for golems and large numbers.

Right now, people aren’t bothering with upgrades to towers as a dozen on the walls can pretty much just watch while a couple golems and 30 enemies tear down the gate.

just no…. once you took away siege, whole strategy disapeared and with randoms running around it is more about zerg numbers than anything else, not what is WvW supposed to be about is it?…. pls just fix it already!!!!

Can’t say I agree. The bug isn’t universal on both sides of the fight. It’s no fun when you can’t put anything down while your opponent can still lay down tons of siege. And even if it was equal on both sides I wouldn’t want siege removed.

WvWvW is great with the bug.

No arrowcarts. Getting some decent open field fights. Not had so much fun in WvWvW in ages.

inb4 someone claims my guild is the only guild complaining versus the entire wvw population!

WvW is better without ACs and trebs. Bring back rams, cats and ballista.

Caffynated.5713:

WvW is better without ACs and trebs. Bring back rams, cats and ballista.

Lol, so no siege counter to rams? That sounds smart XD. People who can’t handle AC’s are people unwilling to adapt, and they are those who are incapable of presenting even remote intelligence to place siege.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Caffynated.5713:

WvW is better without ACs and trebs. Bring back rams, cats and ballista.

Lol, so no siege counter to rams? That sounds smart XD. People who can’t handle AC’s are people unwilling to adapt, and they are those who are incapable of using remote intelligence to place siege.

Oh yeah, one blob here flash building 5 ACs, and this blob over here flash building 6 ACs, aw yeah, 6 AC blob beats 5 AC blob, wooohooo soooo much fun pressing dat 1 button isn’t it?

No need to take advantage of buffs or conditions and combat such as might, retal, protection, speed, regen, immobilize, bleed, stun, etc. No need for combat movement strategies. All we need is poison and a 2.5k+ damage tick with a stupid large aoe cap.

its nice to not to have to deal with Ac wars.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Caffynated.5713:

WvW is better without ACs and trebs. Bring back rams, cats and ballista.

Lol, so no siege counter to rams? That sounds smart XD. People who can’t handle AC’s are people unwilling to adapt, and they are those who are incapable of presenting even remote intelligence to place siege.

If you can’t counter rams without ACs, you are bad and should feel bad.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Caffynated.5713:

WvW is better without ACs and trebs. Bring back rams, cats and ballista.

Lol, so no siege counter to rams? That sounds smart XD. People who can’t handle AC’s are people unwilling to adapt, and they are those who are incapable of presenting even remote intelligence to place siege.

Unwilling to adapt? I’m not sure what kind of experience you have in WvW,

But last week I was in a situation where my team had 50 people, and the enemy server also had 50 people. They were camped inside a tier 2 Briar tower, their gate and walls down, they would not come out into open field to fight us, and when they did they would get wiped. Their strategy was to have 10 arrow carts inside the tower and hold a choke point going up the stairs. Charging inside was attempted and ended in suicide.

We then spent another 30 minutes using trebs, specifically aiming for and killing their arrow carts on top of the walls. However while doing this, they put the walls back up, and we had to get the walls back down, and then they would continue to build more carts as people with supply could sneak in 1 by 1. After a full hour of assaulting this tower, and when most of the carts were cleared (not for the first time) we had to get the wall down again, this time we charged and they still had a couple of arrow carts. The battle was very close as the numbers were even and they still had a couple of arrow carts, my team almost wiped in the lords room, but managed to rally and regain full health to down many of the opposition players, we capped it…just, after a lot of effort.

There was a lot more that happened, but I can tell you, for the 50 people that had to wait for the siege shots this entire time, it was a boring experience for them and it was not very fun. We were held by an inferior team that had equal numbers, terrain advantage, repairable walls/gates and easily built arrow carts.

Tell me, what would you have done in that situation? How would you have ‘adapted’? Do you find the above scenario fun?

I commanded that soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo boring

As a commander I was just sitting there expecting half my team to get bored and jump map, overly stressful and boring we all were just sitting there talking about how cool arrow carts were and how much we loved playing Siege Wars 2 from Vale.

Playing without ACs was amazing had many good open field pvp fights, equal numbers and superior commander came out on top. I even had the group we wiped pming me about how many bags they got and how much they loved the bug.

The “lower” tiers might like their AC wars, but for T1 and I would say most likely T2 it is not at all fun to watch someone be able to hold you at bay indefinitely not because of superior organisation or prowess but because they can sit a zerg on a bridge/choke with 10 acs ticking 2.4k on the choke meaning any push you instantly take 24k damage before even engaging the opponent.

yes it would be more fun

IF

everyone (all servers) everywhere (all 4 maps) and every siege weapon where affected the same.

BUT

this isn’t the case, therefor it’s not that fun!!

Cirus.5748:

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Caffynated.5713:

WvW is better without ACs and trebs. Bring back rams, cats and ballista.

Lol, so no siege counter to rams? That sounds smart XD. People who can’t handle AC’s are people unwilling to adapt, and they are those who are incapable of presenting even remote intelligence to place siege.

Unwilling to adapt? I’m not sure what kind of experience you have in WvW,

But last week I was in a situation where my team had 50 people, and the enemy server also had 50 people. They were camped inside a tier 2 Briar tower, their gate and walls down, they would not come out into open field to fight us, and when they did they would get wiped. Their strategy was to have 10 arrow carts inside the tower and hold a choke point going up the stairs. Charging inside was attempted and ended in suicide.

We then spent another 30 minutes using trebs, specifically aiming for and killing their arrow carts on top of the walls. However while doing this, they put the walls back up, and we had to get the walls back down, and then they would continue to build more carts as people with supply could sneak in 1 by 1. After a full hour of assaulting this tower, and when most of the carts were cleared (not for the first time) we had to get the wall down again, this time we charged and they still had a couple of arrow carts. The battle was very close as the numbers were even and they still had a couple of arrow carts, my team almost wiped in the lords room, but managed to rally and regain full health to down many of the opposition players, we capped it…just, after a lot of effort.

There was a lot more that happened, but I can tell you, for the 50 people that had to wait for the siege shots this entire time, it was a boring experience for them and it was not very fun. We were held by an inferior team that had equal numbers, terrain advantage, repairable walls/gates and easily built arrow carts.

Tell me, what would you have done in that situation? How would you have ‘adapted’? Do you find the above scenario fun?

So an even numbers where they have a fortification, choke point, and siege. They SHOULD have a huge advantage over you.
Now, as for adapting: Stop letting people with supply inside. Go take something else while they’re occupied. Like, say, the camp they’re running supply from.
Obviously the effort it took to beat them down was excessive, and a single tower isn’t worth all of that effort. Take something easier instead of mindlessly beating your face into the wall.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Cirus.5748:

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Caffynated.5713:

WvW is better without ACs and trebs. Bring back rams, cats and ballista.

Lol, so no siege counter to rams? That sounds smart XD. People who can’t handle AC’s are people unwilling to adapt, and they are those who are incapable of presenting even remote intelligence to place siege.

Unwilling to adapt? I’m not sure what kind of experience you have in WvW,

But last week I was in a situation where my team had 50 people, and the enemy server also had 50 people. They were camped inside a tier 2 Briar tower, their gate and walls down, they would not come out into open field to fight us, and when they did they would get wiped. Their strategy was to have 10 arrow carts inside the tower and hold a choke point going up the stairs. Charging inside was attempted and ended in suicide.

We then spent another 30 minutes using trebs, specifically aiming for and killing their arrow carts on top of the walls. However while doing this, they put the walls back up, and we had to get the walls back down, and then they would continue to build more carts as people with supply could sneak in 1 by 1. After a full hour of assaulting this tower, and when most of the carts were cleared (not for the first time) we had to get the wall down again, this time we charged and they still had a couple of arrow carts. The battle was very close as the numbers were even and they still had a couple of arrow carts, my team almost wiped in the lords room, but managed to rally and regain full health to down many of the opposition players, we capped it…just, after a lot of effort.

There was a lot more that happened, but I can tell you, for the 50 people that had to wait for the siege shots this entire time, it was a boring experience for them and it was not very fun. We were held by an inferior team that had equal numbers, terrain advantage, repairable walls/gates and easily built arrow carts.

Tell me, what would you have done in that situation? How would you have ‘adapted’? Do you find the above scenario fun?

So an even numbers where they have a fortification, choke point, and siege. They SHOULD have a huge advantage over you.
Now, as for adapting: Stop letting people with supply inside. Go take something else while they’re occupied. Like, say, the camp they’re running supply from.
Obviously the effort it took to beat them down was excessive, and a single tower isn’t worth all of that effort. Take something easier instead of mindlessly beating your face into the wall.

Anyone on any class with half a brain can sprint upto a tower and pop and invuln to get inside. Also you do know you can jump map grab supply from lowlands/overlook/valley and tele back (they had no camps and this was their last tower on map)

Your logic is not at all tactical there, yes lets jump off a map with a 50 man group inside briar, I wonder what they’ll do when we stop sieging that tower, oh right build trebs for bay or rush bay with golems / rams.

The point isn’t the tactics involved in sieging the point is the arrow carts being overpowered and unable to push them until all the arrow carts are down which means trebbing, in effect you are spending an hour+ of players time just standing around defending trebs because 10 people on a 1 mashing 2.4k death machine.

MagiKarp.8201:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Cirus.5748:

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Caffynated.5713:

WvW is better without ACs and trebs. Bring back rams, cats and ballista.

Lol, so no siege counter to rams? That sounds smart XD. People who can’t handle AC’s are people unwilling to adapt, and they are those who are incapable of presenting even remote intelligence to place siege.

Unwilling to adapt? I’m not sure what kind of experience you have in WvW,

But last week I was in a situation where my team had 50 people, and the enemy server also had 50 people. They were camped inside a tier 2 Briar tower, their gate and walls down, they would not come out into open field to fight us, and when they did they would get wiped. Their strategy was to have 10 arrow carts inside the tower and hold a choke point going up the stairs. Charging inside was attempted and ended in suicide.

We then spent another 30 minutes using trebs, specifically aiming for and killing their arrow carts on top of the walls. However while doing this, they put the walls back up, and we had to get the walls back down, and then they would continue to build more carts as people with supply could sneak in 1 by 1. After a full hour of assaulting this tower, and when most of the carts were cleared (not for the first time) we had to get the wall down again, this time we charged and they still had a couple of arrow carts. The battle was very close as the numbers were even and they still had a couple of arrow carts, my team almost wiped in the lords room, but managed to rally and regain full health to down many of the opposition players, we capped it…just, after a lot of effort.

There was a lot more that happened, but I can tell you, for the 50 people that had to wait for the siege shots this entire time, it was a boring experience for them and it was not very fun. We were held by an inferior team that had equal numbers, terrain advantage, repairable walls/gates and easily built arrow carts.

Tell me, what would you have done in that situation? How would you have ‘adapted’? Do you find the above scenario fun?

So an even numbers where they have a fortification, choke point, and siege. They SHOULD have a huge advantage over you.
Now, as for adapting: Stop letting people with supply inside. Go take something else while they’re occupied. Like, say, the camp they’re running supply from.
Obviously the effort it took to beat them down was excessive, and a single tower isn’t worth all of that effort. Take something easier instead of mindlessly beating your face into the wall.

Anyone on any class with half a brain can sprint upto a tower and pop and invuln to get inside. Also you do know you can jump map grab supply from lowlands/overlook/valley and tele back (they had no camps and this was their last tower on map)

Your logic is not at all tactical there, yes lets jump off a map with a 50 man group inside briar, I wonder what they’ll do when we stop sieging that tower, oh right build trebs for bay or rush bay with golems / rams.

The point isn’t the tactics involved in sieging the point is the arrow carts being overpowered and unable to push them until all the arrow carts are down which means trebbing, in effect you are spending an hour+ of players time just standing around defending trebs because 10 people on a 1 mashing 2.4k death machine.

So what’s the point of taking the tower then? If your worry is that they’ll go rampage around doing something else then it doesn’t matter if you wipe them at the tower or not. They could do that with or without the tower. Your job is keeping them occupied so that they don’t do that, which actually means that them being holed up in the tower is a success since they aren’t breaking stuff everywhere else.
And you still seem to be running into the problem that they are better prepared.
With even numbers, prepared defenders SHOULD be far more difficult to attack.

Another suggestion I thought of: portal bomb, getting in with help from a Shadow Refuge from a thief so stealth lasts long enough.

Also, this thread is about the bug that stopped siege from being in the game being more fun, not about the strength of ACs. And it definitely is not more fun when it’s a complete zergfest to take anything since the only way to stop a zerg at that point is with your own equal zerg, and that only zergs can beat down the gates in any remotely decent amount of time.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Also, this thread is about the bug that stopped siege from being in the game being more fun, not about the strength of ACs. And it definitely is not more fun when it’s a complete zergfest to take anything since the only way to stop a zerg at that point is with your own equal zerg, and that only zergs can beat down the gates in any remotely decent amount of time.

This is inaccurate. It is possible to stop zergs without having a zerg that is just as big or bigger. It is even possible to do that without siege. Interesting fact: Some people find that kind of defending fun.

This bug forces people into defending like that. Before that everything was too easy with one of those arrowcarts and you would kitten yourself if you did not use it. Now that is no longer an option and people have to use the brilliant combat system in the game.

While I think bugs should be fixed, I hope this shows people that there are other ways to defend towers or keeps. (and that the best way is a combination of a tiny bit of siege and some players with very big testicles) Maybe Anet can finally start fixing the Arrowcarts then.

Caliban.3176:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Also, this thread is about the bug that stopped siege from being in the game being more fun, not about the strength of ACs. And it definitely is not more fun when it’s a complete zergfest to take anything since the only way to stop a zerg at that point is with your own equal zerg, and that only zergs can beat down the gates in any remotely decent amount of time.

This is inaccurate. It is possible to stop zergs without having a zerg that is just as big or bigger. It is even possible to do that without siege. Interesting fact: Some people find that kind of defending fun.

This bug forces people into defending like that. Before that everything was too easy with one of those arrowcarts and you would kitten yourself if you did not use it. Now that is no longer an option and people have to use the brilliant combat system in the game.

While I think bugs should be fixed, I hope this shows people that there are other ways to defend towers or keeps. (and that the best way is a combination of a tiny bit of siege and some players with very big testicles) Maybe Anet can finally start fixing the Arrowcarts then.

Did you actually play while the bug was in effect?
Barely anyone even bothered defending because you couldn’t stop the zerg rushes.
The reason ACs are so important is that they are the only thing that can really be used against zergs at a gate without getting yourself killed. The walls are coated in aoe, the cannons are coated in aoe AND die quickly, the oil is coated and barely worth using even if you can stay near it. The only things other than ACs you can use are firing aoes at the gate from behind it, which suffers from the aoe cap, an extremely limited range that it can affect, and an almost complete lack of visual information to work with, or charging out through the door, which requires a zerg of comparable size to the enemy’s to accomplish anything.
Without siege the only thing doors are even good for is stalling for long enough for a counterzerg to hopefully show up.

Caffynated.5713:

WvW is better without ACs and trebs. Bring back rams, cats and ballista.

This man is a genius, hire him!

KillEveryoneElse.3940:

if you like mindless farming zergs with no skill then yes.

Because manning an arrow cart behind a wall and melting anything you choose to requires so much skill….

At least these so called mindless zergs can be defeated, 2 manned ac’s can defeat however many players. Ac’s were fine before their buff, now they are just way too inbalanced. And they should definately not be able to be shot through doors and fixed so people cannot exploit them with fov.

Rams dying in seconds is plain ridiculous.

Cirus.5748:

What do other people think?

“I paid to stack my server with PVE gold only to watch them get shot down by SOR/JQ arrow cart.” Didn’t expect much from a BG player.