Guild Wars 2

There is too much of this.

I know someone will say L2P son! GTFO! Go back to WoW! Or whatever other random buzzline they can think of. I’m just a fella stating his opinion.

I know ANet said they are going to be tweaking AOE because too many guilds/players are utilizing it as their main offense/defense. But has there been any update on when that is happening?

There isn’t even a debate. It is way too strong. I don’t like walking out on the battlefield and getting killed when no one ever targeted me. That is just bad gameplay. Getting killed as collateral damage even when I have my power, toughness, vitality gear on and full tank spec. That’s just silly.

I hope this isn’t like oh we’ll tweak AOE sometime in 2013 AKA november/december. And sooner rather than later.

I love GW2. I love WvW. Most of the time. But big fights are a snoozefest to me. All they ever consist of is both teams painting the ground red and zerg balls TP in through mesmer portals. That isn’t good challenging gameplay to me.

That is in Arenanet’s own words "gaming the system". So anyway has there been any other followup posts from ANet with a timeline on the AOE revamp?

*dons fire protection suit*

AoE was reduced to hit a maximum of 5 targets. TBH, I really think AoE is a good thing that helped reduce the zerg mentaility that is in WvW and nerfing it was a bad thing.

My major issue with AoE though, was that it was instant-cast. I think this was because Anet wanted to cater to the casual gamer who doesn’t really take PvP all that seriously.

sostronk.8167:

AoE was reduced to hit a maximum of 5 targets. TBH, I really think AoE is a good thing that helped reduce the zerg mentaility that is in WvW and nerfing it was a bad thing.

My major issue with AoE though, was that it was instant-cast. I think this was because Anet wanted to cater to the casual gamer who doesn’t really take PvP all that seriously.

AoE was always limited to 5 targets. They are talking about an actual damage redesign. And I don’t like the “it counters a zerg excuse”.

The whole few can defeat many mentality is a blatant imbalance to try to counter their imbalanced server populations. Not to mention if the zerg uses that same AoE against them… Duh.

There should be more aiming and focusing of individuals and less dropping bombs on zergs. Would provide so much more depth to large group fights. You actually would have to learn to fight classes instead of masses. <—-Dr Seuss baby.

No, it was not always limited to 5 targets.

That and the use of veil etc are important strategies when fighting in big groups with the AOE limit it increases the chances of you hitting a group, the culling and at times the lag, I guess we’ll have to wait and how efficient this will be until later this month when the ‘big’ WvW update hopefully arrives.

AoE is already less effective the more targets there are. Also many AoEs can be simply avoided due to taking awhile to land, for example.

I do agree that some single damage builds need to be beefed up a little, but I hardly think AoE is just “too strong”, not with a five target limit.

Anet’s comments about AoE strength were essentially:

“Currently AoE attacks do more damage to a single target than single target attacks do, and we think that’s a problem.”

I haven’t seen a followup that really laid out the direction they might take to rectify that issue, but I would expect it to be a combination of small damage reductions for AoE (very small, like <5%) and small increases to single target damage. It’s possible they’re working on a more novel solution though.

There is a limit in the number of target you can hit ( 5 ) but what I think they should introduce is a limit in the number of AoE you can receive.
atm a 20ppl goup can melt down everithing in a specific area.
It’s the way some guilds play; 15 to 25 players roaming with perma speed a couple of CC and AoE like hell. If their schwartz is big enough they win, otherwise /rel and try again… I think this is a silly way.
ANet should put a limit in here. A single target should not be able to receive 10-15 aoe… 3 to 5 should be enough.

I agree that work could be done on AOE. Not going to debate that.

In the mean time it helps to be tankier in WvW; if you want to take on zergs don’t run with a roaming build. Also, considering that AOE physical damage is usually puny, it helps to have some defensively built players in your party – swirling winds, projectile reflection and condition removal (mesmers, eles, guardians). Things like Null Field are good for stripping off a good amount of conditions in a large group.

Unfortunately it is a high barrier of entry, because not everyone has access to VOIP and therefore can’t call for conditional removal – but as a AOE/confusion mesmer I can tell you my AOEs are ENTIRELY useless against organised groups: I need to switch over to my condition removal role because I can’t do any damage against them.

Wreckdum.8367:

There should be more aiming and focusing of individuals and less dropping bombs on zergs. Would provide so much more depth to large group fights. You actually would have to learn to fight classes instead of masses. <—-Dr Seuss baby.

Please do go on telling us about how single target attacks require aiming (they don’t) and how AoE attacks don’t need to be aimed (they do).

Ragnar.4257:

Wreckdum.8367:

There should be more aiming and focusing of individuals and less dropping bombs on zergs. Would provide so much more depth to large group fights. You actually would have to learn to fight classes instead of masses. <—-Dr Seuss baby.

Please do go on telling us about how single target attacks require aiming (they don’t) and how AoE attacks don’t need to be aimed (they do).

I was about to write just that.

For the OP who doesn’t like to suffer from a AoE that’s targeting a zerg, here is a simple suggestion: Don’t run with the zerg!

Sooooo whirlwind attack, hundred blades, hammer shock, staggering blow, fear me, etc are not AOE because…?

Bern.9613:

Sooooo whirlwind attack, hundred blades, hammer shock, staggering blow, fear me, etc are not AOE because…?

They are AOE. They are aimed because your character needs to be in position, i.e. your character is your target reticule.

AOE needs to be towned down, thats a fact. AOE that dont require a target, dont put yourself at risk when you target the ground and have long durations should be nerfed.
Some classes put AOE and just leave the place but the AOE is still there hititng targets.
“Bern.9613
Sooooo whirlwind attack, hundred blades, hammer shock, staggering blow” – you must be there to do those skills and you get damage just for being were the action is. Still they are AOE i give you that.

what AoE is too strong? the only AoE i think is a little too strong is the meteor shower/storm whatever but overall i don’t see any of it needing a nerf.

i have a glass cannon ranger with barrage, and it only does about 1k on squishy armors. it is only a danger if you stand in it, and since the radius is small you can just dodge or walk out.

fact is, we use AoE because we cant see the enemies :P march patch will hopefully change this

Wreckdum.8367:

sostronk.8167:

AoE was reduced to hit a maximum of 5 targets. TBH, I really think AoE is a good thing that helped reduce the zerg mentaility that is in WvW and nerfing it was a bad thing.

My major issue with AoE though, was that it was instant-cast. I think this was because Anet wanted to cater to the casual gamer who doesn’t really take PvP all that seriously.

AoE was always limited to 5 targets. They are talking about an actual damage redesign. And I don’t like the “it counters a zerg excuse”.

The whole few can defeat many mentality is a blatant imbalance to try to counter their imbalanced server populations. Not to mention if the zerg uses that same AoE against them… Duh.

There should be more aiming and focusing of individuals and less dropping bombs on zergs. Would provide so much more depth to large group fights. You actually would have to learn to fight classes instead of masses. <—-Dr Seuss baby.

So… you think that small group that destroyed your ZERG was devoid of skill because they used AOE abilities to do it? What do you think that small group thinks of your ZERG? If you lose fights when you have 4 times the numbers you might want to tell the zerg to learn to fight, not the other way around.

Wreckdum.8367:

There should be more aiming and focusing of individuals and less dropping bombs on zergs. Would provide so much more depth to large group fights. You actually would have to learn to fight classes instead of masses. <—-Dr Seuss baby.

So there should be more use of ineffective tactics to deal with the current situation? People won’t start focusing on one person specifically just because aoe takes another hit. Aoe would have to be absolutely butchered for you to get what you want. The true solution to your problem is to transfer to a less zergy tier.

People need to learn that staying clumped together is a recipe for desaster. And this game is even frendly with that… big circles on the ground some of the stuff is really slow, if you keep standing in a aoe area it’s your fault period. It’s limited to 5 people……..

Pick up one:

Root – knockdown – immobilize – knockback – stun – chill – pull
+
20 ppl doing AoE can cover a pretty large area

gg

I get what he’s driving at. He probably got caught by a portal bomb of a hundred mesmers, necros, eles, engineers, etc, all tossing their ground target AOE’s. I just get sick and tired of seeing ppl who can’t play their choice of profession well, moan and whine about others that do.

The thing is, I’m one of those “op thieves” y’all whined about. As a result, I’ve learned to hunt targets in groups of 2 or 3 thieves and how not to be detected so I can remain within range until I kill my victim.

Adapt and overcome or —-—>door. Don’t let it hit you on the way out.

Did Anet ever clarify what type of AoE they were looking at? Yeah I know, dumb question. Expecting Anet to communicate with the community.

There’s PBAoE and GTAoE. Some PBAoE is giving melee types incredible mobile AoE damage and some GTAoE is giving ranged attackers the ability to clear siege off walls quickly.

GTAoE is countered by moving out of the red circle, unless it’s a choke point. PBAoE is countered by CC on the attacker, but in a zerg it’s tough to pick them out of the crowd.

The purpose of AOE is not to reward skillful play but rather, to punish extremely bad play.

When I’m playing an FPS and roll a grenade around a corner, you’d be correct in saying that this takes less skill than going around the corner with my gun, ready to shoot people on a one-at-a-time basis.

But that’s not the point.

The point is that it prevented my opponents from being lazy, from clumping up, from camping and it punished them for being bad gamers. It’s not rewarding my skill, it’s punishing their faults.

AOE in GW2 is basically the same concept. It’s not meant to be a skillful method of killing people. It’s meant to punish laziness and bad gameplay. It’s meant to punish clumping up, not paying attention to where you are relative to your teammates and for rushing blindly into chokepoints.

More AOE would lead to better gameplay by punishing the terminally stupid.

Less AOE simply rewards bad gameplay by virtue of not punishing it.

The funny part about this is that the only “AoE” skills that hit hard are the melee ones. And those really are only cone attacks not true AoE, so I imagine they won’t touch them even though they could use some tuning down (i.e. hundred blades for example).

The AoE skills they will likely nerf aren’t AoE either, because the skills don’t hit an area they hit “up to 5 players”. Not to mention that they don’t hit that hard…unless you spec 100% offense and have no defense skills or toughness (poor planning). They can also be avoided, evaded and dodged/blocked.

And, depending on the class, the “AoE” skills, may be the only skills you have that do anything (not that they hit hard, just harder than the rest of the crap they have given your class – staff necro is a great example of this. sure if you go full offense you can hit single target damage that is nice, but you bring no utility to large scale fights, it’s mostly a solo roaming build).