Would a bigger map help wvw?

Would a bigger map help wvw?

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Posted by: Opinicus.6172

Opinicus.6172

There would be pros and cons of course.

Everyone on the same map , more people on each side, more spread out. Less servers (Maybe server pride back).

We would probably get more skill lag and lag in general.

I made a bigger map with parts of all the maps.

http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=775378wvwmap.jpg

Probably only 2 waypoints per side would be enough. One at spawn and one at the castle before attacking the bigger castle.

tell me what you think

Opinicus

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Posted by: Sviel.7493

Sviel.7493

Bigger maps are not possible due to engine limitations.

That said, a map that huge would mean huge swaths of it wouldn’t see any play. There aren’t enough places where players intersect.

I’m also not seeing the benefits of it.

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

Bigger maps are not possible due to engine limitations

Thats not entirerly true since WvW maps are comparably small and much more 1-dimensional than PvE maps. The engine is most definetly capable of larger maps.

The WvW netcode however isnt and unlike simply larger maps in PvE class, what the OP suggests is insane size beyond anything GW2 can do.

So no, it wouldnt help because its impossible.

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Posted by: Hubal.8571

Hubal.8571

People complained about desert BL maps beeing too large, and taking too much time to get from one spot to the other.
And originally as I remember the WP in both Fire and Air keep was unavailable for the “home” server? (Though can’t recall if it was design or just a bug)

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Posted by: Keefe.3821

Keefe.3821

They should make the desert bl the fifth map. Totally unclaimed by any server.

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Posted by: Justine.6351

Justine.6351

There are some good and bad things,

-not having to worry about leaving a map and then having to que to return

-skill lag
-not having a map to go to without a que present
-lower overall population cap

the big plus is getting everyone onto the same map so there isn’t que fighting over who goes to which map and not being able to help a map because it has que already. Unfortunately the cons out weigh it.

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Posted by: Caedmon.6798

Caedmon.6798

Yeah spend 10 minutes trying to get to north point dying half way and having to walk allover again,it will be my new running simulator.

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

People complained about desert BL maps beeing too large, and taking too much time to get from one spot to the other.
And originally as I remember the WP in both Fire and Air keep was unavailable for the “home” server? (Though can’t recall if it was design or just a bug)

people complain about DBL because:

1st reason – It takes time to ktrain
2nd reason – It takes time to ktrain
3rd reason – It takes time to ktrain
4th reason – Map might be to big for this game since it lacks mechanics and gameplay.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: Sarika.3756

Sarika.3756

Some people think ktraining is the same as playing for territory control, or is the same as playing for PPT, or is the same as hitting objectives for fights, or is the same as using siege to defend something.

There’s more to WvW than flat terrain next to instant respawn points.

Please remember that there are a wide array of valid play styles in the game mode, and stop insulting anyone who doesn’t play the way you do.

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

People complained about desert BL maps beeing too large, and taking too much time to get from one spot to the other.
And originally as I remember the WP in both Fire and Air keep was unavailable for the “home” server? (Though can’t recall if it was design or just a bug)

people complain about DBL because:

1st reason – It takes time to ktrain
2nd reason – It takes time to ktrain
3rd reason – It takes time to ktrain
4th reason – Map might be to big for this game since it lacks mechanics and gameplay.

Except you are completely incorrect on the first three reasons. The time it takes to cap everything a WvW map has always been irrelevant, or EB would be the most hated map in the game.

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

People complained about desert BL maps beeing too large, and taking too much time to get from one spot to the other.
And originally as I remember the WP in both Fire and Air keep was unavailable for the “home” server? (Though can’t recall if it was design or just a bug)

people complain about DBL because:

1st reason – It takes time to ktrain
2nd reason – It takes time to ktrain
3rd reason – It takes time to ktrain
4th reason – Map might be to big for this game since it lacks mechanics and gameplay.

Except you are completely incorrect on the first three reasons. The time it takes to cap everything a WvW map has always been irrelevant, or EB would be the most hated map in the game.

EB is actually themost loved map because u can cap stuff faster, trebs form tower to castle and vice versa, while ktrain other part of the map, and if ur blob gets pushed or needs to fall back u have a close place to hide nearby, same happens with alpine bl.

stil i went there a bit as a joke, there are other issues o the DBL but i find them irevellant for most players, and stated that 3 times to be the main issue players dislike that map.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: Gorani.7205

Gorani.7205

I don’t think we need larger maps. WvW maps need a focus on what they are about.

Alpine’s focus is the strategic value of most of its towers for attacking nearby structures (e.g. the ability to treb Bay from Briar) + almost unrestricted movement across the map for fast tactical changes. Holding keeps is the goal of the home server if they want to contain threats on the map by enemies. If you have those, losing towers is not too bad.

EB’s condenses the features of Alpine on a smaller map with SMC as a central structure everyone can reach from his “home side” at similar circumstances (e.g. range both defensively and offensively). SMC is the goal of all three sides in terms of map domination.

Desert BL’s initial idea was to restrict movement a lot (e.g. barricades) and make the Oasis laser a central element of putting pressure on the enemy (it targeted ALL keeps and towers and allowed you to breach a T1 status with just the event). Sadly, the event caused such bad lags (problem with big map + lots of people) that it was removed completely. The barricades got removed, access to Air & Fire was improved. DBL is now a decent map, but lacks a focus what it is about (shires & bloodlust are only band-aids).

If Anet ever creates a new map, it needs a working focus an map philosophy. Just making maps larger will not help at all IMO.

Member of The Guildwars Online Guild [GWO]
Still keeps a volume of Kurzick poems ;)

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Posted by: BloodMoonASURA.3564

BloodMoonASURA.3564

Desert map is already too big, it takes forever to find someone to fight against. Let’s say you wipe with your group, you will spend the next 5 minutes just running to the other side of the map. The amount of downtime makes gameplay slow and boring.

I Am The Freakshow – Anguish [Ash]
https://www.youtube.com/c/IAmTheFreakshow

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Posted by: Nightshade.2570

Nightshade.2570

Yes if they let us do mounted battle it would make sense to make a bigger map, or incorporated gliding.

Otherwise no, that is the top complaint about DBL.

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Posted by: SkyShroud.2865

SkyShroud.2865

The performance is rather low to have a bigger map of bigger population.

Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

Desert map is already too big, it takes forever to find someone to fight against. Let’s say you wipe with your group, you will spend the next 5 minutes just running to the other side of the map. The amount of downtime makes gameplay slow and boring.

that could be tweaked if they bring the main keep to the center and remove the fire keep under zone to a more plain with a oasis keep.
Meanwhile spawn could be where the actual keep is and they could had nort a suply factory where that would give acces to a charr panzer guild controled vehicle^^.

Stil the game lacks mehcanics, theres no point in actually capture nor defend, u gain nothing wich is thge main issue in this game.

WvW should behave a ike an RTS, guilds/groups should suplies/resources zones to cap and defend/upgrade like mines , siege weapons, soldiers, etc.

Still i think thi si snot possible with the actuall Anet mentality, since they want to make just a blatant pve game.

1 – issue, no incentivation or logic to cap nor defend
2- issue lack of mechanics (the buffs and gimmicks arrent mechanics, they are just there to create some poor gameplay and hide the lack of severla mechanics that WvW need)
3 – siege gameplay is awfull, needs more siege but more balanced siege, and less supplies to build the siege.

Its not the map size its the lack of mechanics

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

(edited by Aeolus.3615)

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Posted by: Xenesis.6389

Xenesis.6389

A bigger map can work if they design enough useful points of interest in it, as well as create a “front line” for fights.

I’ve seen a “bigger” map in action with the rvr map from ESO, that map is HUGE compared to even DBL, like at least 5x as big. But they have mounts and speed buffs to help get around, as well as having a waypoint system to port to and from every tower or keep they have, as long as they are connected by your side. You can temporarily shut down a tower or keep from having a waypoint for your enemies if you capture the 3 surrounding objectives attached to it, these are objectives that make havoc sized teams important to have.

There are some bad things in having a huge map, if they don’t fit in ways to travel around in a decent amount of time, like that waypoint system it’s kitten boring moving from one place to another. You would also need to design structures with more hitpoints, which in ESO basically every structure has tier 3 upgrades, but you have to repair walls after every fight, there’s no auto repairs from upgrades. That is to give time for defenders to respond.

I think for DBL what they needed to do was design the map to have more useful objectives to fight for, rather than having obstacles to break up the zergs. Imagine if you had to cap swt nwt first before attacking fire keep, or had to cap swc and nwc in order to shut down the waypoint to fire keep, there certainly would be a lot more small groups tackling that stuff as you wouldn’t take one zerg around to do so. Of course fire keep would have to have some extra value to even bother with the trouble of taking it, like giving a map buff of something.

There needs to be more stuff connected together that need to be conquered together in order to proceed to another objective type of thing. Instead of letting everything be out there and not really connected and can be taken anyway anytime, well why wouldn’t you just take one big fat zerg to all of them then.

Another derailing post. ^^
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill

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Posted by: Kovu.7560

Kovu.7560

I’d rather increase the number of maps and reduce the size, so opposing teams actually interact with each other more.

~ Kovu

Charr Ranger, Necromancer, Thief
Fort Aspenwood. [CREW], [TLC], [ShW], [UNIV]

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

A bigger map can work if they design enough useful points of interest in it, as well as create a “front line” for fights.

I’ve seen a “bigger” map in action with the rvr map from ESO, that map is HUGE compared to even DBL, like at least 5x as big. But they have mounts and speed buffs to help get around, as well as having a waypoint system to port to and from every tower or keep they have, as long as they are connected by your side. You can temporarily shut down a tower or keep from having a waypoint for your enemies if you capture the 3 surrounding objectives attached to it, these are objectives that make havoc sized teams important to have.

There are some bad things in having a huge map, if they don’t fit in ways to travel around in a decent amount of time, like that waypoint system it’s kitten boring moving from one place to another. You would also need to design structures with more hitpoints, which in ESO basically every structure has tier 3 upgrades, but you have to repair walls after every fight, there’s no auto repairs from upgrades. That is to give time for defenders to respond.

“Some bad things”… ESO was basicly 10 minutes of riding across barren landscape and lagging all over the place (bonus points for getting out of friendly keep without rubberbanding back for 5 minutes), then 1 minute of fighting while having the same lag and then back to running because you probably died to an unkillable guy with far better gear than you (or a vampire). Every 2h session of ESO I got like 10-15 mins of fighting, lol. The rest was just running. So boring. In GW2 it is the complete opposite, thats why I returned after 3 months of trying to tolerate constant 250ms+ lag on the oh-but-its-an-EU-server-we-pinkie-swear-teehee EU side of things.

If GW2 has anything to learn from ESO its that there really is such a thing as too big.