Guild Wars 2

How am I suppose to have fun in WvW?
I play on Aurora Glade and I just can’t figure out how some people enjoy this game mode. This week we’ve been put against Kodash and Elona Reach and let me just say that it’s the most boring match up I’ve ever had. Especially Kodash is just stupid.
Kodash outnumbers both AG and ER combined and then they simply put loads of ballistas, arrow carts and cannons somewhere where Meteor Shower for example can’ t reach and press 2 buttons. Try to cut their supply line, 6 ppl waiting for you in the camp. Every now and then some larger blob with 30 people show up, clean everyone and move on.
Some of you will probably say, just go roaming, well, roaming is dead. Noone is going anywhere, unless it’s 3+ ppl together.

Then a capable commander comes online, we destroy them, then they send a group twice larger than before. Rinse and repeat.

Seriously tho, can’t we just copy WoW and introduce Battlegrounds. Way more fun than Zerg Wars 2.

You don’t even have the outnumbered buff. Somenthing is off…

So that’s where all the YB players went…

This is pretty much the norm for NA, though, and has been for several years.

Jeknar.6184:

You don’t even have the outnumbered buff. Somenthing is off…

I saw many at the spawn. What probably helped too is that ER had practically noone online so almost all of players from Kodash could fight in front of our spawn.

I have been roaming with my mesmer at kodasch side.
I don´t go EB, but on other maps theres enough fights to have . Nowadays you shouldn´t roam with a class which can´t run a way when situation as gone bad.

Seriously you should try other maps. You can have more fun there.

Lauri.1342:

I have been roaming with my mesmer at kodasch side.
I don´t go EB, but on other maps theres enough fights to have . Nowadays you shouldn´t roam with a class which can´t run a way when situation as gone bad.

Seriously you should try other maps. You can have more fun there.

Yes this, go to the other maps and be ganked 2-5v1 instead at duel spots.

Lauri your incredibly naive if you think the other maps are any better, I haven’t seen a Kodash solo except the few running to a tag and if you attack them they stop and let you kill them as they can’t be bothered fighting when they’d rather respawn faster.

thats how most DE/SP servers roll bunker up towers / keeps with 298239854038943 arrow carts and they enjoy it.
thus why i dont like WvW anymore, people dont fight anymore.
either hide behind tons of sieges or behind massive blob finding some people willing to fight is quite rare.
unless i go to the usual spot ill have my 1v1’s but i prefer the random encounter 1v1 or 2v1’s

reddie.5861:

thats how most DE/SP servers roll bunker up towers / keeps with 298239854038943 arrow carts and they enjoy it.
thus why i dont like WvW anymore, people dont fight anymore.

Lol what do you mean “anymore”?

Servers like Rivercart have been notorious for years due to the insane amount of siege and people that seem to make it their 24/7 work to sit on arrowcarts waiting for attackers. I have seen more siege in T0 towers than we had in T3 garri.

god I hate siege. ruins the game mode.
if siege existed in cs go, it would be like spamming smg that hit everything in a 10 meter radius at sniper rifle distance. behind cover.
“OMG YES we should introduce a mechanic that allows 1 noob to be equal to a guild group of 20!! IDEA GREAT SUCH GUISE!”

Playing on Elona Reach, I can tell you: same here.

I know several people who are just not willing to come online (or better said, they prefer do stay in PvE) when they notice we have to fight against Kodash. Knowing they outnumber us on almost every map.

Last week against DL we had queues on at least two maps. This week – also at the weekend – hardly one. Yesterday primetime: not a single (public) commander (well ok, later that evening but none at ~18:00)

I don’t blame Kodash or AG for that. Think the lack of players (and commanders) is homemade by ER. But still, its not fun.

2 More months and linking will have been in effect for a year. It stands to reason, EU especially could use an update to the way links and matches are done.

Who knows, maybe after this next link (at the year mark) we’ll all get a reward for surviving the first year.

Make a map with no Siege, I just want to see it, and see how much it would be played.

Siege is fine if both sides are of comparable strength. This is just a matchmaking disaster.

joneirikb.7506:

Make a map with no Siege, I just want to see it, and see how much it would be played.

There is Obsidian Sanctum.

Stand The Wall.6987:

god I hate siege. ruins the game mode.
if siege existed in cs go, it would be like spamming smg that hit everything in a 10 meter radius at sniper rifle distance. behind cover.
“OMG YES we should introduce a mechanic that allows 1 noob to be equal to a guild group of 20!! IDEA GREAT SUCH GUISE!”

if your guild of even 5 cant fight thru a single siege engine and take a tower then your a failure plain and simple. siege slows enemies teams down the only time siege ever shuts anyone down is if you end up with 6+ arrow carts in which case you can just shoot them out with either ballista or cata from a distance.

a lot of people don’t like to be forced to use siege, as siege vs siege is really boring. braindead boring. zombie braindead boring.

there ya go I just explained the point of the thread to ya.

Stand The Wall.6987:

snipples

I completely agree with you, if people wanted Siege vs Siege they’d probably move on yo World of Tanks or something similar

OT: I for once agree with you, that’s rare

Stand The Wall.6987:

a lot of people don’t like to be forced to use siege, as siege vs siege is really boring. braindead boring. zombie braindead boring.

there ya go I just explained the point of the thread to ya.

Do you realise that without siege, WvW would just be a huge K-train of zergs punching gates/walls while defenders aren’t able to do anything unless they match the enemy numbers numbers? (Somenthing that is quite rare these days)
Honestly, siege isn’t even THAT powerful as you people claim. Most siege is pretty useless since Meteor Shower can hit 90% of the siege placements, while the other 10% can be avoided. The only times siege is powerful is when the enemy already have the numbers to push you, which is just sillyness from their part since they could have jumped out and fought already. However, that’s not to blame on siege but on the players themselves.

These completely unbalanced matchups are extremely harmful to WvW – I don’t think people mind losing that much, but being steamrolled all the team just takes the fun out of it. As long as the healthiest option is not to play WvW, unbalanced matchups will kill the WvW population. I saw it when Vabbi imploded from small into a handful (15 players on all maps together in the last months before world linking) and I see it again with some of the servers we are being linked to.

Regarding siege: some siege is definitely what makes WvW interesting. If it is like yesterday evening, where I saw 8+ superior catapults stacked at the outer AG keep (didn’t count the ones at inner.), it’s definitely too much. I was wondering if each finished siege would increase the supply cost of all friendly siege built in a certain area around it. That might force people to spread out.

Edit: “catas” followed by “stacked” triggers the profanity filter.

Jeknar.6184:

Stand The Wall.6987:

a lot of people don’t like to be forced to use siege, as siege vs siege is really boring. braindead boring. zombie braindead boring.

there ya go I just explained the point of the thread to ya.

Do you realise that without siege, WvW would just be a huge K-train of zergs punching gates/walls while defenders aren’t able to do anything unless they match the enemy numbers numbers? (Somenthing that is quite rare these days)
Honestly, siege isn’t even THAT powerful as you people claim. Most siege is pretty useless since Meteor Shower can hit 90% of the siege placements, while the other 10% can be avoided. The only times siege is powerful is when the enemy already have the numbers to push you, which is just sillyness from their part since they could have jumped out and fought already. However, that’s not to blame on siege but on the players themselves.

You’re thinking of it the wrong way, the OP is complaining about a situation where they are having their towers taken and sieged up by a superior in numbers force. This zerg will leave about 3-4 people sitting there on ACs and have trebs and ballistas already built covering vulnerable spots.

You can’t meteor the ACS as they’re firing on you before you get close enough to cast and 2 super ACs will shred a few marauder eles before they get the cast off. If for some reason you get far enough along on the assault (baring in mind there no more than 15 of you) that the ACs are down the enemy zerg of 50 is on its way to rebuild lost siege and wipe you, my favourite being the wanderers druid that will try to laugh on the corpse of everyone the zerg trains over.

From the looks of the picture still have your keep.. so build some trebs and clear out the tower?

You also got a bad roll with a t3 server rolling down to t5, just going to have to wait till it blows over, not every week is going to be dreamland matchups, that’s the cost of having some randomness to the system.

Thanks to Kodash there is some action in this matchup. AG is overwhelmed, but I’m enjoying it. You prefer dead matches and empty maps for almost all day? I don’t.

This week we have more action, more fun and more challenges to overcome.

Thanks Anet for this matchup. I hope there’ll be more like this. SFR or Gandara would also be nice ;-)

Xenesis.6389:

From the looks of the picture still have your keep.. so build some trebs and clear out the tower?

You also got a bad roll with a t3 server rolling down to t5, just going to have to wait till it blows over, not every week is going to be dreamland matchups, that’s the cost of having some randomness to the system.

If you look carefully at the picture you can see a few reasons why this won’t work.

1. Counter trebs are already up
2. They have at least 1 shield generator most likely 2 or 3
3. Enemy zerg is also near the tower (red dots on mini map) protecting it.

We can also assume from this snapshot that the keep is under attack as you can see one of the trebs arms in the upright firing position.

Meh they have 1 shield gen up by the looks of it at the door which isn’t going to cover the gen and trebs at the same time, maybe there’s one behind them, but again meh.

In any case they’re in a bad matchup, we’ve all been in matches like that.

Also, shield gens is the worse siege they could have added to wvw, would rather mobile cannons over shield gens, gg on that one anet devs.

Jeknar.6184:

snipples

most of the time siege is fine.
siege spammers create a stalemate that allows them to compete beyond their physical means, aka putting bodies on the field. until their own ktrain shows up and 1111s.
also for anyone just looking for a fight, seeing someone camping in a tower with 5 sup acs is beyond disheartening. its comical for a second, but that laughter leaves you a little dead inside afterwards.
I think wvw is split between people who want to play siege/pptwars and people who want to play zerg/guildwars.
also I like your convenient percentages.

apharma.3741:

Xenesis.6389:

From the looks of the picture still have your keep.. so build some trebs and clear out the tower?

You also got a bad roll with a t3 server rolling down to t5, just going to have to wait till it blows over, not every week is going to be dreamland matchups, that’s the cost of having some randomness to the system.

If you look carefully at the picture you can see a few reasons why this won’t work.

1. Counter trebs are already up
2. They have at least 1 shield generator most likely 2 or 3
3. Enemy zerg is also near the tower (red dots on mini map) protecting it.

We can also assume from this snapshot that the keep is under attack as you can see one of the trebs arms in the upright firing position.

so what your telling me is at all times the enemy zerg has every tower sieged to the teeth and all siege manned. and these people are just standing around earning nothing doing nothing until you attack? honestly bro just PICK A DIFFERENT TARGET!

i have to avoid t3 towers behind keeps all the time hell i dont think your honestly supposed to be able to take those without going the extra 10 miles. the whole locational balance of EB is what makes it great.

smc can hit all one center tower per side and be hit by one center tower per side. each center tower can hit their respective keep and be hit by their respective keep. each outer tower can be hit by and hit their respective keep. so long as you keep your keep sieged your towers have protection so long as you hold an enemies tower you have opportunities to hit their keep. so long as you have center towers left you may push for smc so long as you own smc you may easily push for enemy center towers. the whole map is a giant game of border management. that said siege stacking and wall hugged catas need to be nerfed. perhaps if a cata is inside its splash damage it gets hit? and siege other than ballista and arrow carts cant be placed within 300m of each other?

Rangerdeity.5847:

apharma.3741:

Xenesis.6389:

From the looks of the picture still have your keep.. so build some trebs and clear out the tower?

You also got a bad roll with a t3 server rolling down to t5, just going to have to wait till it blows over, not every week is going to be dreamland matchups, that’s the cost of having some randomness to the system.

If you look carefully at the picture you can see a few reasons why this won’t work.

1. Counter trebs are already up
2. They have at least 1 shield generator most likely 2 or 3
3. Enemy zerg is also near the tower (red dots on mini map) protecting it.

We can also assume from this snapshot that the keep is under attack as you can see one of the trebs arms in the upright firing position.

so what your telling me is at all times the enemy zerg has every tower sieged to the teeth and all siege manned. and these people are just standing around earning nothing doing nothing until you attack? honestly bro just PICK A DIFFERENT TARGET!

i have to avoid t3 towers behind keeps all the time hell i dont think your honestly supposed to be able to take those without going the extra 10 miles. the whole locational balance of EB is what makes it great.

smc can hit all one center tower per side and be hit by one center tower per side. each center tower can hit their respective keep and be hit by their respective keep. each outer tower can be hit by and hit their respective keep. so long as you keep your keep sieged your towers have protection so long as you hold an enemies tower you have opportunities to hit their keep. so long as you have center towers left you may push for smc so long as you own smc you may easily push for enemy center towers. the whole map is a giant game of border management. that said siege stacking and wall hugged catas need to be nerfed. perhaps if a cata is inside its splash damage it gets hit? and siege other than ballista and arrow carts cant be placed within 300m of each other?

Hey “bro” you might want to check the picture again, this is Veloka that was taken by blue and sieged up offering a staging ground for attacking the keep. The guy is complaining because he is red and when blue does this due to how they have vastly superior numbers there’s very little that can be done. A group of 50 will build defensive siege almost instantly offering no real way to counter unless you already prebuilt the siege.

The reason this is so bad is that without a WP in the keep the time taken to get anywhere in WvW vastly increases as well as your ability to move around.

Does Kodash do this all the time? I dunno but they can do it anytime they want and it’s indicative of the hilarious match ups and population balance.

The things is you say lets put siege and defend… .there is no one to defend to use the siege, lets put upgrades well use the EWP@ emergency waypoint even if u say in chat ,,in 30 sec Emergency Waypoint’’ after 10 min that u alredy said this is under atack…… no one will WP since is no one.
You go roam there , call roamers never saw one single player goin alone .

And the best part even if in total with enemyes we arearound 20 on the map is LAAAAG.
EotM somehow was not a bad ideea the system is not bad is the map that not evryone likes. But if could be combine in a small scale all maps EB Alpine Desert and something from EotM with overflow system there will be always a queue border and one ready to use while u wait in queu with priority to guilds somehow.

Guilds alway leave to server with more players for to recruit to have from where to recruit in low population server what to recruit XD
i know that ANET alredy know some of this things so i hope they will bring some good changes.

Looks like you guys had the same thing happen that happens on NA servers occasionally — a tier 3 server RNGs into tier 4 and one of the tier 4 servers rolls tier 3. It happens, just make it through the week and you should be in a better matchup on Friday.

All A.Net needs to do is remove shield gens and arcs form the game and it will help with balance.

Dusty Moon.4382:

All A.Net needs to do is remove shield gens and arcs form the game and it will help with balance.

Which would result in everyone using proxy catas and nothing you can do about them since there are no shield generators to protect the wall and no arrow carts to hit them. Genius! We’ll be able to K-train much faster this way.

Jeknar.6184:

Dusty Moon.4382:

All A.Net needs to do is remove shield gens and arcs form the game and it will help with balance.

Which would result in everyone using proxy catas and nothing you can do about them since there are no shield generators to protect the wall and no arrow carts to hit them. Genius! We’ll be able to K-train much faster this way.

Have one thing to say, WAAAHHHH! WvW was way better before they put shield gens etc in. A.Net still has not fixed line of sight with arcs so people on the 3rd floor of SMC can rain down arrows w/o a field of view or shooting through walls. That is non-sense. They should be deactivated until A.Net fixes the FoV issue.

I agree… I am a player on Tarnished Coast and WvW has just gotten out of hand with all the guilds transferring, the server stacking, linked servers and the way the new scoring system has been implemented and outmanned buffs not working correctly for months.

This game mode used to be fun, but now that we have a lower population on TC (*because of the guild transfers mentioned above) we get rolled on any map because we cant compete against stacked servers like mag and BG.

Take last night for example..

20 of TC us total on the EB map.

Mag has a full map zerg of all condi necros and a 30 man tank frontline.

Even BG had a 40 man zerg ( and they are supposed to be dying because of transfers also)

There is simply no way we can compete with those kind of numbers.. yet.. we still log in.

At one point, the skirmish score was MAG 7,890 BG 3,400 and TC 1,290 Thats just kittened..

Mag got stacked because they opened it for xfers again a few weeks ago.. Even BG got opened for transfers last week.. meanwhile TC has been closed for MONTHS.

We on TC have been in tier 2 for two weeks, and this week we only had a 5.3% chance of tier 1, yet… last week someone overheard a dev saying we would be manually placed in tier 1 this week.. and guess what.. WE WERE.

ALSO…. We can have less that 20 on map at almost any point of the day, and they have full map blobs.. YET.. we almost NEVER get the outmanned buff…

THE KICKER IS>>>> we on TC had the outmanned buff from reset to about 1 am about 2 months ago one reset night.. and we actually HAD A QUED MAP..

Now… Someone explain to me (since you have to be out numbered 3 to 1 for it to appear at all which is stupid anyway…) can we have a fully qued map (34+) and still be outmanned 3 to 1

??????

Anywho… yes … WVW is broken but Anet will not do anything about the wild transfers because after all.. its how they make money in the game (gems for xfers) Example.. JQ paid 34,000 gold to transfer a guild off of TC a few months ago while we were still in tier 1 pretty solid.. and its gotten worse since then.

How to fix? I dont know.. BUT i would suggest a new outmanned buff.. and maybe a severely outmanned buff or something.. or just change the amount of players allowed on a map at all.. some kind of 1 to 1 to 1 system so you can never be outmanned.

This would fix the transfers… people would actually xfer to lower tier servers so they dont have to wait in ques i think.

Since there will NEVER be another WvW season anyway (or so we have been told). this might actually be the only way to fix the imbalance.

Deaeira.2651:

These completely unbalanced matchups are extremely harmful to WvW – I don’t think people mind losing that much, but being steamrolled all the team just takes the fun out of it. As long as the healthiest option is not to play WvW, unbalanced matchups will kill the WvW population. I saw it when Vabbi imploded from small into a handful (15 players on all maps together in the last months before world linking) and I see it again with some of the servers we are being linked to.

Agreed… I love wvw.. its basically pvp on a large scale.. but when you go to cap a camp or something small solo and a group of 40 shows up every time.. its just stupid.

also… on the server linking part… TC hasnt had a linking for over 6 months… yet MAG and BG had one up until the last change a few weeks ago… and they lost theirs only because they are now so stacked from being opened for transfers that they are simply unbeatable on any map.

If you want to make the game fun again.. MAKE IT EQUAL NUMBERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if the devs actually read this… PLEASE IMPLEMENT a some kind of 1 v1 v1 ratio for people zoning into wvw. I know it can be done (like the messages you get when people zone out of any other map in the game) “This map will be closing in 4:00 mins” kind of thing…

ANYTHING…

balance the population in wvw and the game will be fun again for all.. not just for the band-wagoners!!

Stand The Wall.6987:

god I hate siege. ruins the game mode.
if siege existed in cs go, it would be like spamming smg that hit everything in a 10 meter radius at sniper rifle distance. behind cover.
“OMG YES we should introduce a mechanic that allows 1 noob to be equal to a guild group of 20!! IDEA GREAT SUCH GUISE!”

I think it’s essential to have systems where just one person can be useful against a big group. Otherwise, WvW would simply be a numbers game. But I do agree that excessive seige can be annoying.

Elementalist Owner.7802:

Stand The Wall.6987:

god I hate siege. ruins the game mode.
if siege existed in cs go, it would be like spamming smg that hit everything in a 10 meter radius at sniper rifle distance. behind cover.
“OMG YES we should introduce a mechanic that allows 1 noob to be equal to a guild group of 20!! IDEA GREAT SUCH GUISE!”

I think it’s essential to have systems where just one person can be useful against a big group. Otherwise, WvW would simply be a numbers game. But I do agree that excessive seige can be annoying.

It is a numbers game already. The more condi necros you have and burn DH’s, the more dmg you do.

Yah Dusty but there are counters to those….

There’s no counter to being out numbered on your server in a lopsided matchup. The destructive bandwagoning along with professional balance is killing wvw big time. It seems at times that Anet encourages this by opening a bloated server like Mag who rolls over everyone and everything.

There really should be a limit on how many people can transfer to a server in a given period of time. Won’t happen though Anet needs those gems bought.

Elementalist Owner.7802:

I think it’s essential to have systems where just one person can be useful against a big group. Otherwise, WvW would simply be a numbers game. But I do agree that excessive seige can be annoying.

for a game mode like this its essential to have siege, but that doesn’t mean siege should counter groups of coordinated people. all this does is lead to siege wars, which draws out a fight x100 and frustrates people cuz the only reason most of them are there is to get kills. only a few ppt tryhards will actually take it seriously, and when they do, they ruin the fun for everyone else. not their fault ofc, its the way the mechanics are setup atm.

as for one person to have use against a big group, they shouldn’t have to rely on siege, but their own skills. raising the aoe cap on some skills would do that, and bring skill groups back.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Elementalist Owner.7802:

I think it’s essential to have systems where just one person can be useful against a big group. Otherwise, WvW would simply be a numbers game. But I do agree that excessive seige can be annoying.

for a game mode like this its essential to have siege, but that doesn’t mean siege should counter groups of coordinated people. all this does is lead to siege wars, which draws out a fight x100 and frustrates people cuz the only reason most of them are there is to get kills. only a few ppt tryhards will actually take it seriously, and when they do, they ruin the fun for everyone else. not their fault ofc, its the way the mechanics are setup atm.

as for one person to have use against a big group, they shouldn’t have to rely on siege, but their own skills. raising the aoe cap on some skills would do that, and bring skill groups back.

Siege doesnt counter groups of coordinated people. Sorry but your group isnt coordinated.

Without siege you have constant flipping of towers and wvw becomes a pve game mode. You need siege so a smaller number of people can hold off a larger group while reinforcements arrive. If you have handle the siege than you build your own siege and take theirs out. Siege fighting is an important part of WvW and frankly i dont think there is enough of it.

I think removing AOE cap would be great but I think the servers cannot handle it due to technical limitations.

On tc we can siege up a tower and we dont even have enough people to man all the siege yet we NEVER even get the outmanned buff usually…

Can we get a dev to comment on this?

WvW is dying because of severe server stacking and imbalance.

Stand The Wall.6987:

for a game mode like this its essential to have siege, but that doesn’t mean siege should counter groups of coordinated people.

You’re right it shouldn’t counter coordinated groups, and it doesn’t.

Your group isn’t coordinated if you can’t counter siege properly or find other ways into a structure. It’s more likely the commander is lazy and doesn’t want to put any extra effort in taking something.

I see it it all the time when a commander will attack one gate even though it’s been fortified with siege after one encounter, and wouldn’t try another gate or wall which has no siege on it.

Almost every siege placement can be countered in the game (shield gens are a kitten sometimes), or avoid the heavy siege areas, you don’t have to park your rams under 3 acs at the same gate four times and hope for the best.

trueanimus.4085:

WvW is dying because of severe server stacking and imbalance.

Exactly!

you guys are missing the point of my post, or deliberately skipping it. ill repeat it. its my opinion that most people don’t play wvw for siege wars, they play for good fights.

Kodash is a great server to face against they like ppt so all you need to do is tag up and not make mistakes, you will get a zerg and have something to fight against.

But yeah, being heavily outnumbered is a problem, only things you can really do are:
1)learn to command, servers like kodash are ezpz once you have enough experience. They suck at countering countersiege and manning siege. Following other commander wont cut it because 95% of commanders can only cap empty towers/keeps (and even them in ineffective way)
2) ignore ppt, possibly make your own roaming guild and kill all kodash, maybe push north towers on their bl yo get constant fights. Unfortunately roaming alone is dead outside primetime.

3) go cap some towers if there is comm already. Rather than followimg commander, you can easily cap t0/t1 towers alone/with a friend, fighting scouts etc. . Do this with golems/superior catas or you will fail (and be bored). Kodash will log off cuz they cant handle multiple groups (germans always send everyone to def cuz they suck alone)

yea, is boring. it is no longer 2013 where you can fight a bigger zerg
you either blob or be blobbed down
otherwise, bunker up in towers or keep

SkyShroud.2865:

yea, is boring. it is no longer 2013 where you can fight a bigger zerg
you either blob or be blobbed down
otherwise, bunker up in towers or keep

Throwback: remember stuff like this?

Nope, it aint fun any more, hence why so many players continue to leave. We complained about stacked servers, so what did anet do? They stacked servers further and called it linking. Might as well throw gasoline on a fire.

On an entertaining note, I don’t recall folks from TC bemoaning the population imbalance when they were on the plus side of the equation.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

On an entertaining note, I don’t recall folks from TC bemoaning the population imbalance when they were on the plus side of the equation.

2014? That was ~3 years ago.