Guild Wars 2

EDIT: Based on the comments here, I should have been clearer. This post is not a QQ. I am simply intending on discussing the scaling mechanic in wvw and how in it’s current state its practicaly numbers = victory. Not in all cases but if your ratio to the enemies is large enough no skill or tactics will save you.

What could add more depth to the game to not make it about numbers? In my opinion something like an attacking limit like the 5 player cap aoes where you can only be damaged by 5 players at a time. This would make battles last much longer and make it more interesting as you dont just get teared apart by a zerg.

Do you think something like this that doesnt simpply promote numbers = victory will be enjoyable or do you enjoy the way it currently is?

I’ve played wvw non stop since the BWEs and have pretty much had enough considering how low the rewards are in comparison to PVE even with the recent update to wvw loot.

But what irks me the most is getting zergd. There is absolutely no code of decency in wvw, if you are running through wandering, going to re-enforce, rallying back to your force whatver (even if you run in pairs or small groups) when you bump into a zerg you stand absolutely no chance whatsoever except to get your face smashed into the ground.

Worse now that my server is in t1, large zergs are everywhere and they can afford having groups of up to 10 camping spawn exits.

If aoe attacks were limited to hit only 5 targets at a time I don’t see how more than 5 people are able to focus on 1 player at a time. Don’t get me wrong I can hold my own with 5 and even survive fairly long around 5-10 but getting gang attacked is just no fun.

What do you think, would a limit of 5 people being able to attack one player work? I imagine it could be a nightmare to implement but the current state is just ridiculous especially in high population server battles. This scaling of population to attacks / hp etc does not seem to exist. In the same way, a massive zerg is able to melt a re-enforced door.

First we should answer why so many threads are focused on making WvW less like WvW and more like PvP.

IMO WvW should be unpredictable, when you step out into the open field….. anything can happen. That’s one of the things that makes WvW so enjoyable. Just when you think you are about to take an enemies keep, the third server’s zerg hits you.

sPvP is for balanced small PvP combat.

…Well since this is unlikely to ever get implemented, your best bet is to

make a thief,ele,warrior, or mesmer

These professions have many means of escaping and can do so quite well.

Transfer to a low pop server, maybe go to SBI or Devona

Roll with the group
You have a bigger chance to live if someone next to you takes one for the team <_<

Stop going expecting people to abide by a self-made/personal " Code"

This is a video game, not grandmaster samurai meetings, if someone wants to be a kitten, they will be a kitten.
Grow a thicker layer and move on.

I’d rather just remove the other cap…

Anzu.5702:

Worse now that my server is in t1, large zergs are everywhere and they can afford having groups of up to 10 camping spawn exits.

I am not being snide or condescending when I say this; Welcome to T1, it is what it is.

Being part of a small group myself and never running with a zergball, its about picking your battles and watching for the steamroll. Beyond that, look to moving to a lower tier.

As far as Decency and Honor well, if its red its dead.

They limited the healing a Guardian can do already with stacking because it was blatantly over powered. Its just part of it being Wv3, where numbers play a significant role and should stay that way. There are a lot more bugs, fixes, and tweaks that should be handled before any significant changes should be applied to the game.

ElDudemeister.5108:

First we should answer why so many threads are focused on making WvW less like WvW and more like PvP.

I think you misunderstand my point. I am all for large scale combat. But the scaling is completely out of whack. More than 5:1 ratio and you have no chance as the number advantage is the only thing that matters.

Also its about the decency of not 20v1 a single player. how is that wvw skill? And it ges pretty demoralizing which is why people usually drop out by the end of the week

Everyone knows that tears feed the Zerg machine.

Anzu.5702:

ElDudemeister.5108:

First we should answer why so many threads are focused on making WvW less like WvW and more like PvP.

I think you misunderstand my point. I am all for large scale combat. But the scaling is completely out of whack. More than 5:1 ratio and you have no chance as the number advantage is the only thing that matters.

Also its about the decency of not 20v1 a single player. how is that wvw skill? And it ges pretty demoralizing which is why people usually drop out by the end of the week

Roll with your 20 man group?

They have commander tags on for a reason……

This is an open world PVP scenerio.
If you cant handle being outnumbered then WvW was not a good choice for your pvp fix.
Why do you expect people in a large group not to roll over a straggler or rambo player alone in the open?

Better Question-
Do you have any idea what happens when you ignore people in WvW?

I’ve been stomped and smooshed into the ground by zergs so many times I can’t count. Most times I’m simply running supply and happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I can accept that is part of the game. I brush myself off and go back to what I was doing.

What I would suggest we do in these forums is follow a basic protocol of dealing with alleged hacks/exploits. That’s usually when things start to go south in most match threads. Do as Arena Net has suggested, report the exploit in game, then send in documentation to exploits@arena.net … finally, make an effort to try to contact someone on the supposed exploit team to clear things up before running to the forums pointing fingers. Nine times out of 10 an exploit allegation is simply something someone doesn’t fully understand. On TC, we have taken to writing the following in our match threads when we are unable to reach an opposing team:

Could someone from X server please contact me in game?

Using that simple sentence doesn’t create antagonistic feedback, nor does it sully the name of any server or guild without at least first investigating.

Short of exploiting or outright cheating, anything goes in WvW…especially tier 1.

However, I do try to have a sense of decency. Rather than kill all 10 people camping me, I usually try to let 2 or 3 run away.

Porky.5021:

Short of exploiting or outright cheating, anything goes in WvW…especially tier 1.

However, I do try to have a sense of decency. Rather than kill all 10 people camping me, I usually try to let 2 or 3 run away.

Your a nice person…..

I kill them all ….

Better to be safe and keep supply lines going than be sorry :I

Jayne.9251:

I’ve been stomped and smooshed into the ground by zergs so many times I can’t count. Most times I’m simply running supply and happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I can accept that is part of the game. I brush myself off and go back to what I was doing.

What I would suggest we do in these forums is follow a basic protocol of dealing with alleged hacks/exploits. That’s usually when things start to go south in most match threads. Do as Arena Net has suggested, report the exploit in game, then send in documentation to exploits@arena.net … finally, make an effort to try to contact someone on the supposed exploit team to clear things up before running to the forums pointing fingers. Nine times out of 10 an exploit allegation is simply something someone doesn’t fully understand. On TC, we have taken to writing the following in our match threads when we are unable to reach an opposing team:

Could someone from X server please contact me in game?

Using that simple sentence doesn’t create antagonistic feedback, nor does it sully the name of any server or guild without at least first investigating.

Yeah I know what you mean and do the same myself. But I wasn’t referring to any exploit or bug simply wanted to facilitate a mature discussion about the scaling of wvw. But judging from the other responses here and the flaming keyboard warriors, I see that I was mistaken to expect a mature discussion. I am taking my leave here.

Solori.6025:

Anzu.5702:

ElDudemeister.5108:

First we should answer why so many threads are focused on making WvW less like WvW and more like PvP.

I think you misunderstand my point. I am all for large scale combat. But the scaling is completely out of whack. More than 5:1 ratio and you have no chance as the number advantage is the only thing that matters.

Also its about the decency of not 20v1 a single player. how is that wvw skill? And it ges pretty demoralizing which is why people usually drop out by the end of the week

Roll with your 20 man group?

They have commander tags on for a reason……

This is an open world PVP scenerio.
If you cant handle being outnumbered then WvW was not a good choice for your pvp fix.
Why do you expect people in a large group not to roll over a straggler or rambo player alone in the open?

Better Question-
Do you have any idea what happens when you ignore people in WvW?

I probably didn’t word my post correctly. I am not suggesting ignoring players and letting them go free but imo there should be a scaling mechanism that doesn’t mean numbers = victory. Etc zerg of 30 sees 2 people and engages. 30v2 is a joke. If there were a limit to the number of people that were allowed to damage that 2 it would make the game more challenging and add more depth, as the 2 would be more useful and not simply get stomped

Anzu.5702:

ElDudemeister.5108:

First we should answer why so many threads are focused on making WvW less like WvW and more like PvP.

I think you misunderstand my point. I am all for large scale combat. But the scaling is completely out of whack. More than 5:1 ratio and you have no chance as the number advantage is the only thing that matters.

Also its about the decency of not 20v1 a single player. how is that wvw skill? And it ges pretty demoralizing which is why people usually drop out by the end of the week

I’m not trying to be a jerk, but it sounds like I understand your point exactly. This is a military-style scenario … fair fights are not part of the game. If you’re not comfortable with that, WvW might not be the right place for you, which is fine as it is only a small slice of the game. It would not be great for the game to lose a dedicated player because they are playing a part of the game that’s not a great fit for them.

I’m the kind of guy who likes to sneak up behind people and stab them in the back with my hammer.

I die alot…

Maybe you should know that ‘stabbing’ people with hammers is not what they are effective at.

;)

Anzu.5702:

I think you misunderstand my point. I am all for large scale combat. But the scaling is completely out of whack. More than 5:1 ratio and you have no chance as the number advantage is the only thing that matters.

Also its about the decency of not 20v1 a single player. how is that wvw skill? And it ges pretty demoralizing which is why people usually drop out by the end of the week

That’s part of the adventure! Learning to avoid the zerg and ambush the people at the tail end. There are certianly some things they could do to promote smaller forces on the map. By removing gate tagging (single player keeping a objective contested) and removing the DE timer porting (porting to a contested keep when the event timer resets) you could get smaller fights. If zergs have to make a choice to defend a keep or take objectives for points… it will split them up. Also, with NO waypoint porting to contested keeps (ever) then everyone will have to run there and you’ll get more open world skirmishes.

Right now the zerg can roam freely and port back a contested keep anywhere on the map when the DE timer resets. You remove that option and the zerg will be reduced as some will always need to defend.

ElDudemeister.5108:

I’m not trying to be a jerk, but it sounds like I understand your point exactly. This is a military-style scenario … fair fights are not part of the game. If you’re not comfortable with that, WvW might not be the right place for you, which is fine as it is only a small slice of the game. It would not be great for the game to lose a dedicated player because they are playing a part of the game that’s not a great fit for them.

Excellent explanation, simply brilliant. If you’re outnumbered in WvW, you should expect to be roflstomped. Simple as that. The game shouldn’t be tweaked to make you stronger just because you’re at a numbers disadvantage. Pick your fights, know when you should disengage/run, etc. If you end up in a bad position and get stomped…. Pay your repair bill, learn from it, and drive on.

:

I’ve been stomped and smooshed into the ground by zergs so many times I can’t count. I can accept that is part of the game. I brush myself off and go back to what I was doing.

:

Q.Q more you PvE loving Carebear. Your tears makes killing you so much more enjoyable. L2P nub!

I’m quoting these here because they fairly clearly emphasize the point I am going to try and make.
Any PvP-esque situation is going to involve player attitude. And it is that attitude that makes or breaks a game.
Now in a perfect world, if more people that were defeated in WvW/PvP adopted the attitude in that first quote, we would have less people adopting the attitude in the second quote.
Now, does that make the attitude in the second quote justified?
(Personally, I don’t think so, since it makes the person who adopts that attitude generally sound like a baboon thumping his chest screaming about how big his banana is. )
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that nobody particularly likes getting rolled over by a zerg… Just like nobody likes getting ‘cheap-shotted’ by a back-stabbing Thief that they can’t see before they are killed… Just like nobody probably likes getting condition stacked into the dirt by a Necro…
In the end, it’s the attitude that is adopted by both sides that either allows people to move on and continue playing, or to just let animosity grow and continue to polorize both sides into hating each other even more.
Developers can tweek and adjust classes and abilities and powers all they want. (And indeed, they should!) But until players attitudes change, bad behavor will continue to sully the reputation of anything PvP related.

Anzu.5702:

ElDudemeister.5108:

First we should answer why so many threads are focused on making WvW less like WvW and more like PvP.

I think you misunderstand my point. I am all for large scale combat. But the scaling is completely out of whack. More than 5:1 ratio and you have no chance as the number advantage is the only thing that matters.

Also its about the decency of not 20v1 a single player. how is that wvw skill? And it ges pretty demoralizing which is why people usually drop out by the end of the week

I think we understood your point … you misunderstand the point of WvW. You aren’t supposed to find “fair” matches on your own. You aren’t supposed to be able to scale so that you can win a 1v10 encounter. You aren’t supposed to go roaming around on your own if you aren’t willing to face whatever you might find.

You ARE supposed to join with a group when possible and do your best to strategically choose actions that will win points for your server in spite of whatever enemy you may be up against. When solo roaming or performing other actions (running supplies, scouting, creating diversions, etc) you ARE supposed to avoid conflicts you are certain to lose, and when you don’t do that you ARE supposed to die.

If you can’t deal with that, you should maybe consider that by nature and temperament you aren’t supposed to be in WvW and should instead be in sPvP … small maps with an equal number of players and fully scaled gear/stats .

Kromsin.6359:

Everyone knows that tears feed the Zerg machine.

Lmao. yes, lol. Not much chance that they will learn the error of their ways and tip-toe around those of us they catch out in the open?

What I find somewhat unfortunate is that most of the zerg followers will never actually learn how to be good players and effective in their group because most of what they’ve done consists of stomping single players or being stomped by an equal group of people in turn.

They are actually a hindarance to the group without even knowing it. When they chase a single roamer across half the map the zerg loses its effectiveness. An organized zerg stays clear on its objective and only stomps those that are deemed as threats to their team.

Nowadays I do much of my work as a “zerg breaker” by tailing the zerg, ganking those who are left behind due to lack of swiftness and aggroing a part of the zerg elsewhere.

As for the code of honor, I personally prefer to leave the 1on1 situations be, unless it’s a situation such as a thief vs an upleveled person, and try to have our zergs focused on clear objectives instead of rushing after every red name tag they can see on the map.

Red is not always dead to me at this point, I prefer to meet real challenges instead of trashing some level 2 guy who is somewhere he does not belong.

I also understand that I can’t uphold everybody to the same standards but tens of thousands of kills later you kind of have to move away from the usual zerging and start doing your own thing.

Anzu.5702:

ElDudemeister.5108:

First we should answer why so many threads are focused on making WvW less like WvW and more like PvP.

I think you misunderstand my point. I am all for large scale combat. But the scaling is completely out of whack. More than 5:1 ratio and you have no chance as the number advantage is the only thing that matters.

Also its about the decency of not 20v1 a single player. how is that wvw skill? And it ges pretty demoralizing which is why people usually drop out by the end of the week

Why ever do you think you should be winning 5v1s? That group with 5 times your numbers are real people, not NPCs. This isn’t a movie, and you’re not the hero dispatching opponents by the dozen. If you were in a group of 10 would you really see it as fair play if 2 guys could wipe you all? No, you’d be complaining that whatever build they had is OP. If you don’t believe me, just put “thief” in search and pick any one of the hundreds of threads about exactly that.

Thats in reference to battles in open fields. When defending , 2 guys should be able to keep 10 guys out of an upgraded keep, or at least delay them severely. But that is already the case in the game.

If I’m leading a group and I see a couple of enemies nearby, I’m absolutely going to make paste out of them if I can without wasting too much time. Because they’re likely either scouting and relaying our position to their server, or they’re going to flip that camp the moment we leave.
Is that fair? Absolutely. WvW isn’t about standing each server in a line facing each other, and then everyone duels 1v1 and whoever has most standing at the end wins. The whole purpose is to organise yourselves and deceive your enemy so that they’re on a wild goose chase far away and you can bring your force to bear where they aren’t prepared.

That said, I do try to avoid steamrolling a lone enemy who is clearly just trying to get vistas for his map completion.

Porky.5021:

However, I do try to have a sense of decency. Rather than kill all 10 people camping me, I usually try to let 2 or 3 run away.

I see what you did there

Xsorus.2507:

My personal favorite is when you’re stomping on someone 1v1, and he starts running, and people from his guild show up and zerg ya down
Then he proceeds to /bow

/bow can be interpreted in two ways, #1 as a show of respect for your opponent (like they do in martial arts) and #2 as an acknowledgement of your own good performance to your viewing audience (like they do on stage after a performance). Generally in wvw it is used for #1 i’ve not seen it used for #2.

So I would suggest to you that he was acknowledging how good a fighter you were and showing respect. He probably knew he would have been a dead man if it wasn’t for you getting zerged.

Xsorus.2507:

My personal favorite is when you’re stomping on someone 1v1, and he starts running, and people from his guild show up and zerg ya down

Then he proceeds to /bow

If you were an AR thief and I was a NSP mesmer the other day in EB (fought for ~30-45 seconds), that may have been me. I’ve recently started to /bow or /salute whenever I have a good fight with someone and I’m still alive at the end.

It means you did a good job. If it wasn’t me, then they probably thought so too. I kinda wish more people would do the whole /bow thing after a decent 1v1. Keeps things classy.

This post sorta reads like a “GW2 missed connections” ad or something lol…