Guild Wars 2

I am a guild wars fan, but i have a major issue with world vs world. I feel that it is a mockery of war itself, you have guilds being paid off to switch world servers and players creating multiple accounts to spy. I know people would say “don’t play WvW then”, but knowing what is happening doesn’t help the fact that WvW is becoming a vicious online blood sport. what does WvW even really give us as a server? The PvP arenas should be enough for people. One hit KO’s are annoying as hell even if i do them (which i can’t) cause i can only imagine how much someone could be raging over it. WvW should use PvP stats and equipment, cause that is basically what WvW is.

And that is why WvW will always be worse then PvE and even SPvP in some cases. It’s even worse due to one being forced to do it for map completion and certain traits if you can’t/don’t want to pay for them. Only worthwhile thing after that is the badges for exotics, and EoTM is far better for those.

Was about to post effectively the same thing.

Honor in war is long dead… Like 250+ years dead.

While I agree, I don’t like how a lot of people play PvP games in this regard (you find it everywhere, sadly), to say it’s a mockery of war is pretty far off :P

OHKO’s are fine. Running a build with them is usually pretty risky, and if you OHKO someone else, they likely have a build which was designed to do the same to you. The way I see it is, might as well get them before they get you. They know what to expect by running glass (or should).

If sPvP gear was expanded, I wouldn’t be too against this. That said, I think there’s too little diversity in sPvP. The trinket you pick defines everything, and I think the lack of the ability yo mix and match gear detracts largely from it.

What I’d really like to see are guild commander tags, which only display the tag to those in the same guild as the person tagged up, effectively reducing spying and blobbing we see which makes the environment a little less fun. A lot of guilds run without them for this reason, but dying and then needing to find them and regroup can be a pain.

I think the issue is that WvW is currently being used to fill the hole where GvG should be.

Fact is, a whole lot of people want to go 50 vs. 50 with all their best guild buddies, but don’t have a place to do it. So, they go to WvW, and get fed up with all the naughty server politics that GvG wouldn’t have.

Veprovina.4876:

You just described war… Bribes, politics, spying, scheming, There’s no honor in war!
War is war, it’s not a football game!

So WvW being war essentially, how is it being a mockery?

True.

However I don’t believe groups/nations in war regularly “forfeit” a war ahead of time, like we see in WvW.

Spying is a breach of the ToS.

However, i think WvWvW is fun.

It is just in the nature of people: exploring every possibility to win, no matter what the original rules are. That is why we will always meet mobs, thieves, liars and forgers in real life.

The difference is: in-game we want to play the game. Shall I at some point begin to miss revealing cheaters or catching pickers, I can anytime quit and visit a market in some third-world country.

Nahtei.8746:

I am a guild wars fan, but i have a major issue with world vs world. I feel that it is a mockery of war itself, you have guilds being paid off to switch world servers and players creating multiple accounts to spy. I know people would say “don’t play WvW then”, but knowing what is happening doesn’t help the fact that WvW is becoming a vicious online blood sport. what does WvW even really give us as a server? The PvP arenas should be enough for people. One hit KO’s are annoying as hell even if i do them (which i can’t) cause i can only imagine how much someone could be raging over it. WvW should use PvP stats and equipment, cause that is basically what WvW is.

The fact that you can pvp enemy players doesn’t make WvW same as PvP. WvW has pve elements and three sides that fight each other, that’s enough for me to know that WvW is not mean to be fair or honourable.

I personally don’t care about guilds selling their boons and stacking skills to move to another server. It think it’s a lot more detrimental that Anet supports server vs server imbalance by free transfers before seasons and rewards based on server perfomance.

“The PvP arenas should be enough for people. " Why?

Nobody forces you to play WvW, if PvP is so better in your opinion, play PvP. Adios!

Fuzzion.2504:

Spying is a breach of the ToS.

However, i think WvWvW is fun.

How is spying a breach of the ToS? Which part of it is it violating? As long as they’re not multiboxing (controlling two accounts at same time with same keyboard/mouse), how would it violate it? Actively using supply to build siege, maybe, but just keeping track of where the enemy is, I don’t see it violating the ToS.

As others have pointed out virtually everything you mentioned is part of RL warfare and on some level a valid tactic. The sabotage/spy thing is annoying since players cannot do anything about it but that is just going to be part of any online game like this.

I will say this… don’t play EVE Online if you think GW2 is bad. IMO the politics in WvW is kiddie school compared to some other PvP based games.

what about enemies getting free supply and siegerazor on your home map?
I still dunno why that is in the game since it’s not their map.

I still enjoy thoroughly WvW. The comraderie, fighting with friends, TS chatter and joking. We lack coverage, but big deal. We give a good accounting of ourselves for the fights can participate it. And we have “fun”…..some people have lost the meaning of that concept apparently.

My feelings on hacker and spies. To kitten with them, I say. The best way to deal with folks like that is to go ahead and enjoy your game play in spite of them. Show them that thier best efforts don’t really mean a thing in the long run…and they don’t.

That said…WvW could be greatly improved with in game moderators / referees to deal with hacking & cheating. In EQ2, a simple in game message to a mod would bring a real person to check out any problem pretty quickly.

skullmount.1758:

Fuzzion.2504:

Spying is a breach of the ToS.

However, i think WvWvW is fun.

but just keeping track of where the enemy is, I don’t see it violating the ToS.

Yes, we’ve noticed this.

Rimmy.9217:

skullmount.1758:

Fuzzion.2504:

Spying is a breach of the ToS.

However, i think WvWvW is fun.

but just keeping track of where the enemy is, I don’t see it violating the ToS.

Yes, we’ve noticed this.

Are you saying DH has a spy on EB? As far as I know, only one guild [Bevr] uses our teamspeak for wvw anymore, so I don’t know how having a spy would be beneficial, especially if that spy has to type everything.

Fuzzion.2504:

Spying is a breach of the ToS.

No it’s not, been approved by a mod claiming that they cannot force people to play a given way. If that person’s playstyle is to spy on another server, then that is their playstyle. Anet will not stop playing the game the way they want to play it

Of course this ruins the game for the other 299 players on the map (assuming around 100 max per server) and so violated the Rules of Conduct, but they refuse to do anything about this or similar actions.

In real life, saboteurs and spies are frequently imprisoned and killed. You seriously think it’s realistic for the country that’s being sabotaged and spied upon to do nothing? Real life also doesn’t have zombie armies that can instantly run back from their “spawn”. You can’t just mention real life just and conveniently ignore other aspects.

This is a video game first and foremost and any semblance of real life is largely irrelevant ever since Anet decided that this mode was to be somewhat competitive with their season crap. People can cling to the note that “wvw wasn’t meant to be balanced”. And sure it is true to some extent; however, hasn’t anyone felt that it’s been used to justify the amount of care given to wvw? (aka none). I mean since balance doesn’t matter, that means it’s fine as-is, and all complaints remain irrelevant. Therefore, don’t ever complain about wvw; beyond bugs and polish as it is working as intended. Hey you know that ferocity nerf that made the condition/bunker meta even more effective? Nope, who cares. Pve balance is more important. Wvw wasn’t meant to be balanced. And that’s more realistic anyways. You think your weapons and abilities wouldn’t become obsolete over time? That’s realism bro! The cold harsh nature of the world where survival of the fittest rules and where machiavellian wannabes reign. You should be glad that they’re just less effective instead of obsolete, since Anet has already shielded you partially from harsh reality.

Oh, and as for those crappy wvw rewards? Hey, war is destructive and not really that profitable anymore as it once was. Well, at least not that much for the soldiers. I guess Anet nailed that.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Fuzzion.2504:

Spying is a breach of the ToS.

No it’s not, been approved by a mod claiming that they cannot force people to play a given way. If that person’s playstyle is to spy on another server, then that is their playstyle.

Don’t spout rubbish. No mod ever approved spying.

They destroyed WvW early. WvW was fun up til the point they decided to implement wxp from taking structures from npc’s.

WvW could use a map without keeps and supp camps, I’d love to see a map that offers a terrain with elevations, chokepoints some odd ruins to be used in tactical manouvers. Anything but what ordinary WvW is all about today.

And to all those saying that this is war, I just want to say, No, it’s not a war, it’s a game and comparing this to war is just plain silly.

Please dont get pvp gear to go to wvw, theres already way to little diversity in pvp as it is, dont need that in wvw thank you.

Azhure.1857:

Veprovina.4876:

You just described war… Bribes, politics, spying, scheming, There’s no honor in war!
War is war, it’s not a football game!

So WvW being war essentially, how is it being a mockery?

True.

However I don’t believe groups/nations in war regularly “forfeit” a war ahead of time, like we see in WvW.

Sure nations do. quite often. Small nations have -and still look at an opposing force of several hundred thousand and back at a small outdated militia and say. "- please be merciful. We have no chance to do anything to stop you.. "
When you have countries with less population, then its opponent has in a city- That leaves those cases. – And servers as they are now; is just like that-

Phule.1968:

And to all those saying that this is war, I just want to say, No, it’s not a war, it’s a game and comparing this to war is just plain silly.

The comparisons are made to demonstrate human behaviors when presented with a conflict. Ultimately, people are going to try and win by whatever means necessary, using the best tactics they can to do so. Spies, and cheap plays like that, are utilized due to their low-risk high-reward nature and high effective net yields, be it in real life or in video games.

GvG seems like a more “friendly” competition than WvW is currently. I always stayed away from PvP cause it seemed scary, battling people who are possibly more experienced than you.

DeceiverX.8361:

Honor in war is long dead… Like 250+ years dead.

Honor is overrated

Fuzzion.2504:

Spying is a breach of the ToS.

Interesting interpretation, how did you arrive at that conclusion?

frans.8092:

Fuzzion.2504:

Spying is a breach of the ToS.

Interesting interpretation, how did you arrive at that conclusion?

Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

Rules of Conduct

1. While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.

Spies do not respect the rights of other players, or let them enjoy the game.
They are there to spy, and hence cheat, giving the enemy server an unfair advantage; thereby ruining the game for players on both sides!

WvW is essentially just a much larger version of GW1’s AB, with the addition of walls around the shrines you’re trying to cap and siege weapons to break those walls. It functions much the same way as well, since capping and holding (ie ppt) was the way to win that mode as well. J

Just like here, in GW1 there were guilds that were paid to swap sides, and people that had one account in each faction (though it wasn’t really necessary) so they could ‘spy’ on the other side and even sabotage some of the games.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

frans.8092:

Fuzzion.2504:

Spying is a breach of the ToS.

Interesting interpretation, how did you arrive at that conclusion?

Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

Rules of Conduct

1. While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.

Spies do not respect the rights of other players, or let them enjoy the game.
They are there to spy, and hence cheat, giving the enemy server an unfair advantage; thereby ruining the game for players on both sides!

Except it violates nothing that they specified. If you think it violates the first part, I could say the same thing for zerkers/op builds in sPvP, that they’re violating it because they’re not letting me enjoy the game.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

frans.8092:

Fuzzion.2504:

Spying is a breach of the ToS.

Interesting interpretation, how did you arrive at that conclusion?

Guild Wars 2 Rules of Conduct: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

Rules of Conduct

1. While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.

Spies do not respect the rights of other players, or let them enjoy the game.
They are there to spy, and hence cheat, giving the enemy server an unfair advantage; thereby ruining the game for players on both sides!

I see, bit I don’t think it stretches that wide, spying does not limit other players in their ability to play and enjoy the game. If you interpret ‘enjoy’ as ‘having fun’, it does not have that meaning in that context where it means ‘being able to play’ and without being subjected to fraud, harassment, threats and the other things mentioned. Spying is not in that list. Just as spamming skills in town is not, even though that might interfere with some players’ enjoyment, or dancing, or flashing 50 skill tomes at the banker. Spying is not neccesarily cheating, it is part of general warfare, just as scouting and hiding in keeps is part of Wvw. It also does not give an ‘unfair’ advantage as anyone can do it, just as using teamspeak is not considered an unfair advantage.

Perhaps spying could be seen similar to looking at the cards of other players in a game like poker where seeing each other’s cards would be detrimental to the game. But then, in other games, like chess. you have all information available, so that is not necessarily bad, or ‘cheating’ . Many here seem not convinced the information obtained by spying is detrimental to the game. If you feel it is, make a case to show why.

Of a more practical nature is the argument that spying is impossible to prove, unlike, for instance, a fly or teleport hack.

The server i am on has become extremely discouraged in playing WvW, because we have lost everything to another server. some players have even said that WvW is no longer fun because of this. Players don’t even want to try and fight back, it’s like letting the bully at school take your lunch money every day and not doing a thing about it because you think “what’s the point?” No one wants to play a game where they constantly lose, even if they have a ton of experience. The only thing i can think of to say is that anet seems to encourage bullying in a sense.

The way I see it, WvW is fine as it is. There is not much Anet could do to remove some of the complaints I have read about, as most basically pertain to player behaviour. Tokens? If you wanted a mystforged weapon, you had free tranfers to some servers available just before the seasons started. Loot? The EotM is perfect, just follow the leader and get a pouch every 3 minutes.
WvW is a warlike experience (which you can just step away from when you’re tired of it, unlike actual war…) and it’s never been fair or honorable. Numbers win 80% of the time, as they do in war. Spies, dishonorable methods, hacks; each player can decide if that’s what they want to be.

The point is to make your own fun, play the game your way. I’m on AR and for 14 weeks now we’ve been facing off servers that outnumber us 21H a day. I know we’ve been 9th (in gold league, mind) 2 seasons running but I’ve never left, because I play for those moments when your screen is filled red by the enemy 60 odd pugblob, you are standing there with 20 odd guildies and know the odds are against you. Yet you stand, you face them, call for aid on TS and hear “hang on, we’re on our way” from a friendly 20 man guild. The blob comes at you, you careful guide it to a chokepoint, or an ambush; you fight, dodge, survive and just when you feel all hope is lost, you see your buddies crashing into the blob. You catch a breath, cheer and charge and chase them all the way back to the T3 fort, where all 60 of them drop 10 ACs on the wall and just watch you, safe in their fort.

In those moments, you have server pride and personal pride because you are NOT part of those superior numbers cowering behind their walls with as many siege weapons as the fort will allow. Screw achivement points, screw shinies, screw bags and wxp, as far as I’m concerned, I won.

Sure, it gets tiresome from time to time, but when that happens, I take a break, play something else for a few days then come back ready for more. It’s really all up to each player to decide how they want to play, what is more important.

However, dolyak escorts should be better rewarded, you should receive more badges for kills in actual WvW than in EotM, and a mid-range GvG system should be installed to allow 10v10, 25v25 and 50v50 team fights, rewarded in specific skins, gold and leaderboard ranking (with associated server). This would satisfy a good portion of WvW players and teamfight specific guilds.

Personally I love having WvW in the game, whereas in gw1 it was only pve and small group pvp. Though like most I have many issues with WvW. Mainly the blobbing, improper matchups, lag, etc. And all the crappy things people do, well we experienced it constantly in t1. We would have our ts ddos’ed, they used alt accounts to spy on us, all the hacking and exploiting, the double teaming, opponents stacking their servers buying up every guild they could. I mean it sucks, but competition makes some people crazy. If you dont like that come to a bronze server for WvW, its a lot more fun, and we dont have to deal with that garbage anymore.

Ok, I have a new issue with WvW. our server population seems to be dropping, and we can’t hold anything for more than an hour before the whole map is green. I request that anet have people see what HoD server goes through for 24 hours, and hopefully they will fix the matchups. If nothing is done, then WvW dies on HoD, and it would prove that anet doesn’t care about the players that much. If anything the matchups need to be by population that plays WvW not just a server population, cause only a fraction of players do WvW.

Nahtei.8746:

Ok, I have a new issue with WvW. our server population seems to be dropping, and we can’t hold anything for more than an hour before the whole map is green. I request that anet have people see what HoD server goes through for 24 hours, and hopefully they will fix the matchups. If nothing is done, then WvW dies on HoD, and it would prove that anet doesn’t care about the players that much. If anything the matchups need to be by population that plays WvW not just a server population, cause only a fraction of players do WvW.

HoD has a sizeable WvW presence, so i’m not sure where you’re coming from. As fas as i can tell though HoD HAS lost their commanders who know how to win a sustained open field battle. When I last fought HoD for two weeks in a row, it was quite fun, and your server fought kicking and screaming against superior COVERAGE and acquitted themselves very well.

WvW is stale, but not broken. If you’re winning its because your server has COVERAGE, and you should not think it’s anything else. At the end of the day, winning in WvW means jack diddily squat.

As for Using PvP stats in WvW, this is a terrible idea. You’re essentially saying that you dont want to craft your own build, and you want to limit diversity by restricting gear to the amulets, which would FORCE people into the meta, just to stay alive, and it would severely limit the abilities of zergbusting guilds to take down 1.5-3x their numbers.

People spend a great deal of time crafting their builds to fill a specific niche. Whether thats the instagib elementalist who is as delicate as an orchid, and if you so much as pass wind in its general direction it dies, or the un-naturally tanky enginneer or warrior.
You go into PVP, basically knowing what you’re going to come up against because of how PvP fights are all around a capture node. Many builds are simply not viable if you’re limited to staying in a small area around a point. That’s why you see a ton of D/D Celestial eles, hambows, turret engineers, S/D Teefs, and other similar meta builds. If you play a turret engineer in WvW, prepare to get laughed at.

I would probably quit the game, with a large number of other players were WvW build diversity limited to the PvP amulets. WvW is really the only part of the game where you can test a build and put it through its paces. There’s a lot of joy in knowing that you never actually know what kind of build is coming at you in WvW. It makes fights more spontaneous, balls to the wall awesome.

Nahtei.8746:

I am a guild wars fan, but i have a major issue with world vs world. I feel that it is a mockery of war itself, you have guilds being paid off to switch world servers and players creating multiple accounts to spy. I know people would say “don’t play WvW then”, but knowing what is happening doesn’t help the fact that WvW is becoming a vicious online blood sport. what does WvW even really give us as a server? The PvP arenas should be enough for people. One hit KO’s are annoying as hell even if i do them (which i can’t) cause i can only imagine how much someone could be raging over it. WvW should use PvP stats and equipment, cause that is basically what WvW is.

PvP is terrible and WvW is much better than PvP which is why I choose to invest my time playing WvW even though it has its own issues. PvP also doesn’t allow for anywhere close to the same level of variety that WvW does with stats and builds both because there is food and more stat types but also because the game mode doesn’t revolve around sitting inside a ring…

WvW is the reason your server gets a lot of its buffs week in and week out… do you ever press the B button? If you open up the WvW panel everyone who is in PvE gains a lot from the success or failure of their server each match. (Overall health buff, crafting success buff, etc.)

[See Link]

“Your World’s Bonuses”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:WvW_Stats_and_Bonuses.jpg