Guild Wars 2

While I appreciate the wvw ticket cap increase I believe this increase does not address the actual issue wvw players have, which has more to do with the effort required to craft such armor. By no means do we wish to make crafting such armor easy, legendary armor should as the name indicates, require a good deal of work and effort. However, WvW players must put in more than double the effort of a raider to be rewarded with what I am going to refer to as low and medium quality legendary armor.
Raiders were rewarded with a full set of precursor armor, which unlocked all precursor sets for crafting by completing 5 weeks worth of achievements. Additional sets of legendary armor will take raiders approximately 22 weeks to complete starting from scratch and putting in less than an hour a day’s worth of effort per week. It will cost WvW players 7880 claim tickets to craft the low quality legendary armor for each armor class and combined 10500 claim tickets to craft their first set of each class of medium tier legendary armor with a cost of 9190 for each subsequent set of that class of medium quality armor. At a cap of 365 claim tickets per week it will take WvW players 22 weeks to craft each set of low quality legendary armor and 29 weeks to craft their first set of each medium quality legendary armor and 26 weeks for each additional set.
The real issue WvW players have, is not the need for an additional cap increase/removal of cap, but the effort/time needed to achieve the same results a raid player can toward their legendary armor. A raid player can put in less than an hour of effort a day get their raid boss kills(approximating 2-6hrs for a full weekly clear) and grabbing some provisioner tokens and events along the way(less than 15mins to organize and complete chak gergant and most provisioners are already available when porting onto a map). A WvW player depending on their WvW rank can earn on average 5-10 Pips per tick not including outnumbered buffs. This means that in order for a WvW player earning 10 pips per tick to cap on tickets they must play in WvW with an equal to or greater than tier 3 participation for approximately 2hrs per day, at 8 pips per tick 2.5hrs per day and at 5pips 3.5hrs per day. Not only is this a huge difference in effort required by the WvW player compared to a raider to earn their weekly cap, the WvW player also has to contend with the 2000 rank required to unlock the full medium quality precursor sets. At 5k per level that’s roughly 10million experience required to reach rank 2000(the first few levels do not require 5k wxp). While there are a lot of players who have achieved this rank, to a new player earning one level per hour will earn them a 2000 rank in 83 days of straight playing.
As both a PvE raider and WvW player it would be great to be able to experience the same thrill of crafting legendary raid armor in WvW. My solution to make WvW armor more like crafting raid armor while keeping with the same tier progression system and effort/cap is to have the Triumphant Armor Reward Track act as the first experimental armor achievements did in raids. To unlock all 3 armor sets it takes approximately 144hours of play in WvW. This can take longer or shorter depending on boosters and participation. Completing these sets unlocks the tier one ascended triumphant armor sets which are equivalent to the raid experimental armor sets. I believe making WvW players ticket cap for 4 weeks in a row to unlock each individual set is far too much when raiders only had to complete what amounted to less than a weeks worth of average achievements (it takes raiders roughly 5 weeks to complete the achievements for experimental armor only because of time gates by spirit threads and ecto RNG). Make the 1310 ticket cost for one full set of ascended triumphant armor(which will function as the experimental raid armor) unlock all three mistforged triumphant sets(which will function as the refined raid armor), unlock all 3 armor class skins for the ascended triumphant armor, prevent the ascended triumphant armor set from functioning as a precursor armor and allow its purchase only once. Also eliminate the marks for its purchase. This essentially makes it possible to unlock WvW precursor armor(mistforged triumphant armor) in 4 weeks at the current ticket cap. To balance out the purchase of the mistforged triumphant armor (which will now act as the refined raid armor does) increase the cost of all mistforged triumphant armor pieces to 700 tickets and add marks to the purchase cost. Reduce the legendary war insight to 700 tickets and reduce the rank requirement to 1395(Gold Invader). This will make WvW equal the time it takes to make raid armor and not discourage those new to WvW from going after WvW legendary armor, while preventing easy access to the ascended armor. The ability for veteran players to more easily reach the ticket cap can function the same way the skill cap works in raids. Not everyone gets every boss killed in raids a week and not everyone should be able to ticket cap a week. Additionally, by implementing this it would create time for the possible improvement of the legendary mistforged triumphant armor skins rather than being just a reskin.
Keep in mind that as new raid wings release the raid players will be able to increase the amount of legendary insights they can achieve a week which will reduce the time needed to craft a set of legendary armor at the cost of additional hours of game play unless they cap insights. WvW players will not be able to receive this type of benefit. Legendary armor in general should not be easy to craft, it’s not for everyone and it should be a grind to earn its benefits, but I believe the WvW community feels the discrepancy in effort needed between raiders and WvW players especially the beginners or casuals is too great. And keep in mind my calculations are subject to some error.

@CrimsonIce

Well said \o/

Now that is what I call a wall of text! Ha! You make some interesting points. I would add a TLDR section at the bottom though.

Well said and a some very good alternatives to what is in place now. I very much love that we can get legendary armor in WvW now however as stated it is significantly more time investment than the other game modes.

MMO players in general seem to be very sensitive to the concept of fairness when it comes to the acquisition of loot/gear/power for their characters. In this case, there’s no question that legendary armor is considerably easier to gain through raiding than through WvW and that most certainly creates a perception of unfairness.

I would love to see some stats on pip and therefore ticket acquisition, I suspect that on average WvW players are collecting fewer tickets than CrimsonIce used in his numbers.

The WvW level requirement of 2000 is also a bit of a sticking point for me. Sure it’s great to reward dedicated long term players but there’s two issues with that. Firstly, what about dedicated newer players, no matter how much they love and participate in WvW the time gate for completing legendary armor (and backpacks) is enormous, simply because of the level requirement (putting your time in, paying your dues as a progression mechanic doesn’t actually benefit anyone, not the vets that have put the time in nor the new players who see the catch up as daunting). Secondly, I don’t see any similar requirement for raiders, you don’t have to achieve 500 boss clears over 6-12 months to be a rank 2000 raider and gain access to legendary armor.

In summary: Compared to raiding legendary armor – WvW armor is harder to get, the time gating more pronounced (and is arguably extreme) and there isn’t even a new skin to work towards. Add to that there’s no catch-up mechanism for newer (but still dedicated) players which makes the time gating even more problematic.

No wonder WvW players are salty about how this ‘feels’ and is perceived.

Yea, both the time and rank requires is wayyy too much. Newer players stand no chance and vets are putting in an uneven amount of effort.

But there is no rank requirement for wvw legendary armor . . .

It surprises me that ppl are upset about this, I’m not sure how they could have made it any easier. All I have to do is keep doing what I’m already doing and the stuff I need to make the armor just naturally follows . . .

Literally zero additional effort compared to what I’m already doing. It’s like it’s free . . .

I think the raiders that are complaining that pvp and wvw legendary armor cheapens their achievement are a bunch of entitled whiners, but even their position makes more sense than the op’s, to me . . .

Hi just want to say that I understand why its 1095 tickets for the legendary war insight because there should be a time gate. However the choice of time gate is wrong it should be 100 tickets than 2k badges and 500 heroics for 1 insight. In PVE raids legendary insight were available early and raiders could stack them to the point when the legendary armor became available to craft they did. If the WvW version happened then legendary insights would have started dropping from bosses after the armor became available.

Gop.8713:

But there is no rank requirement for wvw legendary armor . . .

It surprises me that ppl are upset about this, I’m not sure how they could have made it any easier. All I have to do is keep doing what I’m already doing and the stuff I need to make the armor just naturally follows . . .

Literally zero additional effort compared to what I’m already doing. It’s like it’s free . . .

I think the raiders that are complaining that pvp and wvw legendary armor cheapens their achievement are a bunch of entitled whiners, but even their position makes more sense than the op’s, to me . . .

While it’s true there is no rank requirement for the lower tier ascended triumphant armor there is a 2000 rank requirement for the ascended mistforged triumphant armor set. In my opinion letting the tier one triumphant set be upgraded to legendary is ridiculous, especially when the skin has nothing legendary about it and is very easy to acquire.

Gop.8713:

But there is no rank requirement for wvw legendary armor . . .

It surprises me that ppl are upset about this, I’m not sure how they could have made it any easier. All I have to do is keep doing what I’m already doing and the stuff I need to make the armor just naturally follows . . .

Literally zero additional effort compared to what I’m already doing. It’s like it’s free . . .

I think the raiders that are complaining that pvp and wvw legendary armor cheapens their achievement are a bunch of entitled whiners, but even their position makes more sense than the op’s, to me . . .

The precursor armor does not require rank? I thought it did.

Zalavaaris.5329:

Gop.8713:

But there is no rank requirement for wvw legendary armor . . .

It surprises me that ppl are upset about this, I’m not sure how they could have made it any easier. All I have to do is keep doing what I’m already doing and the stuff I need to make the armor just naturally follows . . .

Literally zero additional effort compared to what I’m already doing. It’s like it’s free . . .

I think the raiders that are complaining that pvp and wvw legendary armor cheapens their achievement are a bunch of entitled whiners, but even their position makes more sense than the op’s, to me . . .

The precursor armor does not require rank? I thought it did.

Not the tier one triumphant ascended armor but if you want the mistforged triumphant it requires 2000 rank

Just remove the cap, the time to grind tickets already far exceed the time to grind legendary in pve. Very little reason to timegate it since unlike pve raid where you can finish all four wings in 2hrs (if pro) or 4hrs (if average good), in wvw you have to grind many times more hours.

Timegate is meant for non-grindy contents, not for grindy contents.

trailofsalt.6571:

Now that is what I call a wall of text! Ha! You make some interesting points. I would add a TLDR section at the bottom though.

Wish I could. Reached the character cap lol. Was a lot longer to begin with and I pointed out the release time differences and some other facts. But unfortunately I could only post 6000 characters.

SkyShroud.2865:

Just remove the cap, the time to grind tickets already far exceed the time to grind legendary in pve. Very little reason to timegate it since unlike pve raid where you can finish all four wings in 2hrs (if pro) or 4hrs (if average good), in wvw you have to grind many times more hours.

Timegate is meant for non-grindy contents, not for grindy contents.

While I agree with the reason for time caps for non-grindy content a vast majority of wvw players can’t even reach the cap as it is now. Also with the removal of the cap it would become far to easy to farm the ascended triumphant armor and not bother with the mistforged triumphant set. At least according to the wiki either set is capable of being used as the precursor.

CrimsonIce.6547:

A raid player can put in less than an hour of effort a day get their raid boss kills(approximating 2-6hrs for a full weekly clear) ….. A WvW player depending on their WvW rank can earn on average 5-10 Pips per tick not including outnumbered buffs. This means that in order for a WvW player earning 10 pips per tick to cap on tickets they must play in WvW with an equal to or greater than tier 3 participation for approximately 2hrs , at 8 pips per tick 2.5hrs per day and at 5pips 3.5hrs per day.

… this a huge difference in effort required by the WvW player compared to a raider to earn their weekly cap,

AND….the WvW player also has to contend with the 2000 rank required to unlock the full medium quality precursor sets. At 5k per level that’s roughly 10million experience required to reach rank 2000(the first few levels do not require 5k wxp). While there are a lot of players who have achieved this rank, to a new player earning one level per hour will earn them a 2000 rank in 83 days of straight playing.

I believe making WvW players ticket cap for 4 weeks in a row to unlock each individual set is far too much when raiders only had to complete what amounted to less than a weeks worth of average achievements (it takes raiders roughly 5 weeks to complete the achievements for experimental armor only because of time gates by spirit threads and ecto RNG).

Agree with these points.

And, not complaining because of my rank (4K), or because of my difficulty finishing Diamond each week, because I’m not having difficulty. But… ENTIRELY… on the obvious imbalance and unfairness when compared to PvE to ALL WvW players regardless of their ranks, and especially due to the onerous burden placed on newly entering WvW players who we NEED TO ENCOURAGE to stay and play WvW. The current requirements do the opposite, imo.

The whole concept of WvW legendary armor is awesome to me. For once, I do not have to leave my favorite game mode to get what others are able to get.

But like most things WvW, the devs put some kind of weird metric on our game play, in relation to how they view the effort required for other game modes. For instance, see WvW achievements. That imbalance has never been properly corrected.

I like how Anet always pushed the Guildwars franchise as a casual game, that you don’t have to grind at for hours all day.

Wtf happened to that attitude in gw2?

Almost 6 months to make leg armor in WvW, not including grinding outside of WvW to get all the materials needed and gold needed, because lord knows you don’t make a lot of either if you play nothing but WvW.

2 months max in pve…

To put this in perspective, I just recently started WvW because pve seemed boring as hell. Been at it 2-3 months. Since the Pip update, I hit max diamond once, and i put hours, each day, into WvW.

The 22 weeks posted above is predicated on you actually achieving MAX diamond each week. It’s a hell of a lot longer if you don’t.