(edited by Diku.2546)
WvW Maps and Scoring
Proposed – World Globe Rank & Scoring Details
Current
…Per Tick – Every 15 minutes – Points Earned
…Per Kill – At Death – Points Earned
…Blood Lust Buff (with HoT release) – Removal Pending
Not Implemented
…Per Cap – Objectives captured earn points at flip. Higher points are earned based on the Objective’s Upgrade Tier when flipped. Extremely low points awarded for objectives that have zero upgrades
…Weekly PPT Cap of 25,000 – 100,000 Points for each Globe. ANet to adjust value to keep runaway scores from happening
…WvW Home Globe Rank based on Weekly Weighted Statistics in Parent Thread.
…WvW Home Globe Rank Top 3 & Bottom 3 – Global Theaters of War each maintains a separate list.
(edited by Diku.2546)
Reserved for Map Details
(edited by Diku.2546)
Snip 8<
Then at some areas I feel you are not going far enough with proposed changes. Why you feel its important to have exactly 4 maps to fight in? Just because we have 4 now is not really good reason if you try to improve current system. Why not have just one map? Specially when 3 maps are currently empty. If, and only if first map is already full of people, open up next map to fight for.
The other thing I really dislike about scoring is the constant tick based on how many objectives each side is holding. This tick basically rewards servers for not fighting, not being active, not even being online. And its terrible. I honestly do not feel any new and improved system can implement similar passive ticks where score is increased just for nothing. There should always be players doing something before they earn some points. Just for example you could get points for capturing objectives (but only once, when you capture them) or upgrading structures (obviously not with auto-upgrades like we have now but really bring in dolyaks, spread the supply around and talking with guards so they dont run off) or even capture a flag events spawning randomly on the map. What I am after here, is that you should never get any rewards if you are not doing anything and all the rewards should scale based on how many enemies are active same time.
@FogLeg
Personally…the Old Alpine map in my opinion had the right size and feel. New map will take time, but it feels like it just needs a higher number of players to reach a critical mass where the fun begins. If WvW Commnities are nutured properly…having 4 maps already in place would allow them to grow into it.
Also, ANet already engineered 4 maps. Throwing out the current configuration will probably add to the development time. I’d rather have the developers devote more time into converting the Old Tier Based System into a Globe Based System as quickly as possible.
This Reboot of Base Map Mechanic & Population is flexible enough to work with the Old Alpine Map or New Desert Map.
@FogLeg
You’re about to start a discussion on a sub-topic found in the parent thread that has proposed mechanics that are Not Implemented yet.
PART III – Expanded Details of Major Mechanics & Triggers v.33
b) World Globe Rank & Scoring
Current
…Per Tick – Every 15 minutes – Points Earned
…Per Kill – At Death – Points Earned
…PvP Kill – Blood Lust Buff
Not Implemented
…WvW Home Globe Rank based on Weekly Weighted Statistics in Parent Thread.
…WvW Home Globe Rank Top 3 & Bottom 3 – Global Theaters of War each maintains a separate list.
WvW Home Globe Rank based on Weekly Weighted Statistics listed below:
WvW Home Globe Rank is used as a reference point in giving out Weekly, Monthly, and Tournament Rewards.
a) Cumulative Kill & Tick Points earned from All Kills & Claimed Objectives on both Home & Enemy Globes
b) Home Globe’s Active WvW Players Total Count
c) Home Globe’s Outnumbered Buff for Server Total Time Count
d) Weekly X,Y,Z – Code the Map to allow a future variables not implemented
Update 1 of 3
Hmm…just noticed…Blood Lust Buff is not possible without Ruins right? I’ll have to update the Parent Proposal to have a Pending Removal due to HoT Release.
Current WvW Map Mechanics does have scoring based on when players are doing things.
…Per Kill – At Death – Points Earned
So you’re proposing that the Per Tick points be lowered? That’s possible…ANet just needs to adjust the points earned per tick.
Or, are you suggesting that Points Only get awarded when an objective flips?
How about when objectives Flips & Per Tick?
What else would you recommend given the above information that is also being proposed.
(edited by Diku.2546)
The passive tick over time has always been issue for me. Specially since I play in last tier server where even before HoT people rarely managed to fill up more then 2 maps. usually keep were only flipped once per day by bigger zerg and then they just ticked for next 24h. Sometimes keep were taken at reset night and then they were not even attacked during the matchup week, not even once.
Like I said before passive tick simply rewards one side on the match for doing nothing. Its not reward for defending it (actually defending a structure has always been least rewarding part in wvw), its just free points. The same thing when you walk on the street and someone gives you money.
Also, in many matches the passive tick already boosts one server ahead for so much during weekend so its not interesting to play in next 5 days. The match is already won or lost, there is no way you can catch up anymore. So people wont bother.
I would say remove the passive tick completely.
What I propose instead is to award points only for capturing structures. When structure gets tagged, event is started with potential points up for grab. How many points exactly depends on number of upgrades, tier of walls/gates, number of sieges within structure and number of defenders showing up. So basically tower without any upgrades and no defenders is worth 1 point. Tier 3 maxed keep with 14 acs, 6 trebs and 60 people defending it, is worth 300 points.
Attackers only gain wvw xp, chests and other awards when the number of points awarded is greater then number of attackers. Group of 10 people will probably get no personal rewards for attacking tier 1 towers without any defenders. Zerg of 50 people would perhaps not get any personal rewards even from keep. So we remove reason for zerging up, we remove reason for people to gather up into more populated servers.
Now if structure gets untagged without flipping, defending server earns points based on the structures value, siege used by attackers and number of attackers. If lonely roamer tagged the tower, killed some guards and left, defenders get 1 point. If zerg of 50 people attacked keep, used 10 rams, 10 acs and still did not get the keep, defenders are awarded with 100 points (about half what attackers would earn).
This way there is very little point to run away from enemy into empty maps and take structures when nobody is defending because you would earn very few points. To earn more points you want to find heavily sieged up structure and take it while there is a lot of people defending it. Also, there is more reason to defend everything as you could earn points for succesful defend too. Overall, if there are enemies somewhere doing something – go and fight them and your score will increase.
@FogLeg
Current Proposal
PART III – Expanded Details of Major Mechanics & Triggers v.33
b) World Globe Rank & Scoring
Current
…Per Tick – Every 15 minutes – Points Earned
…Per Kill – At Death – Points Earned
…PvP Kill – Blood Lust Buff
Not Implemented
…WvW Home Globe Rank based on Weekly Weighted Statistics in Parent Thread.
…WvW Home Globe Rank Top 3 & Bottom 3 – Global Theaters of War each maintains a separate list.
Update 2 of 3
PPT does have a purpose to keep an element of urgency to scoring, but past a certain point it works to de-moralize the loosing team. How about the following:
…Weekly PPT Cap of 25,000 – 100,000 Points for each Globe. ANet to adjust value to keep runaway scores from happening
Update 3 of 3
Objective capping points sounds really appealing. Rewards players for actually doing something. Keeping it simple to reduce development & coding.
…Per Cap – Objectives captured earn points at flip. Higher points are earned based on the Objective’s Upgrade Tier when flipped. Extremely low points awarded for objectives that have zero upgrades
You really had some good ideas. Need to keep it simple so the ANet developers have an easier time to implement…and less things that could go wrong in computation of points…
(edited by Diku.2546)
Updated – Part III) Expanded Details of Major Mechanics & Triggers v.33 to v.34
Some explanation on my 0 Point on passive, i mean something like this, a camp is worth the point ”the enemy” gain on it if you cap it without resistance, so Camp have 4 upgrades that you do manually, 1 and 2 is worth 30point 3, 4 worth 50points each, so if you upgraded a camp to max your server will gain 160points, if enemy cap it they will gain 160points and then if 0 upgraded then 0 points for capping it. Then you add points for defending buildings on camp something like 1-4players = 20points 5-9= 60points 10+ players 100 points, with then mean if you cap a fully upgraded Camp with 10+ defender your server gain 260points + all kill points, and if defenders win they gain 100points + kills, they already got the 160points earlier. And here for winning on defender side is when sword go away from the building. Made up some points, if that is good or if it should be higher am not sure.
Continuing discussion on Scoring.
Keep in mind the following has been updated in this sub-topic already.
Update 1 of 3
Blood Lust Buff is not possible without Ruins right? I’ll have to update the Parent Proposal to have a Pending Removal due to HoT Release.
…Per Kill – At Death – Points Earned
Update 2 of 3
PPT does have a purpose to keep an element of urgency to scoring, but past a certain point it works to de-moralize the loosing team. How about the following:
…Weekly PPT Cap of 25,000 – 100,000 Points for each Globe. ANet to adjust value to keep runaway scores from happening
Update 3 of 3
Objective capping points sounds really appealing. Rewards players for actually doing something. Keeping it simple to reduce development & coding.
…Per Cap – Objectives captured earn points at flip. Higher points are earned based on the Objective’s Upgrade Tier when flipped. Extremely low points awarded for objectives that have zero upgrades
Scoring Details should be looked at for:
PART III – Expanded Details of Major Mechanics & Triggers v.33
b) World Globe Rank & Scoring
Seeking feedback from WvW Community. Please focus on keeping it simple. Coding things might cause performance bottlenecks.
(edited by Diku.2546)
@FogLeg
Objective capping points sounds really appealing. Rewards players for actually doing something. Keeping it simple to reduce development & coding.…Per Cap – Objectives captured earn points at flip. Higher points are earned based on the Objective’s Upgrade Tier when flipped. Extremely low points awarded for objectives that have zero upgrades
.
Currently objectives like towers and keeps are worth a fixed number of points at every tick. It only counts what each side owns at the point when the timer resets.
This leads to, at least in T1, some servers playing the rather stale PPT game of flipping objectives only close to the tick and not bothering to defend them because you can just retake them later for points before the timer runs down.
If points value of these objectives increase the longer your side have held them, it will both make defending to hold them more meaningful and it will also incentivize the other sides to try and take high value targets to stop you from getting those extra points.
Maybe ANet also should look at how Camelot Unchained is trying to change things in RvR by having an aggregated daily realm report that includes rewards for the player based on their contribution and their realm’s performance that day that instead of a simple PPT scoring system.
Never forget.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKtGxVj3msM&t=96
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKtGxVj3msM&t=96
@YKN
Agree that PPT capping with 4 minutes before timer resets can be irritating because players don’t bother to defend.
Yes…the proposal covers:
…Per Tick – Every 15 minutes – Points Earned <—- Objectives held
…Per Kill – At Death – Points Earned <—- Player contribution of kill yaks, sentry, etc.
…PvP Kill – Blood Lust Buff <—- No longer possible with HoT Release
Objectives with High Tier Upgrades get more points when flipped
Objectives with No Tier Upgrades get extremely low points when flipped