Guild Wars 2

The original Desert borderlands were a little disarranged, however this was fixed by the map update. In my opinion the Desert maps are now much better than the Alpine maps.

+ The shrines are good idea. You can get stacks for your sigil here, and still add something small for WvW points, also provide bonus (invisibility, slowness)
+ The camp area is smaller so I can kill all the guards much faster.
+ It is a bigger map, so I have a better chance do do something when play alone.

What I don’t get is, for all these players who are hating on the desert borderlands, since it looks like you will be “stuck” with it and you know that ANet is going to release another, amended poll on mixed vs. rotational borderlands, why you don’t just campaign for and vote for mixed borderlands? Then you will always have your alpine maps to play on, and those who like and enjoy and want to play on desert borderlands can do so also.

I mean, if you were to vote for mixed borderlands, then you won’t be “stuck” playing anything…

Urdfexe.9147:

In my opinion it was not the return of alpine borderlands that saved WvW but the introduction of WvW reward tracks.

My experience is on SoS in T3, so it might not be representative of the entire system.

Two things happened in rapid succession:

1) Servers were linked while desert borderland was the borderland. For an entire month on reset there was a queue of 30+ on each map at reset and a queue on two maps during most prime times.

2) Desert was swapped for apline and there were some queues, but they were far lower than when servers were linked.

Now I seldom see server queues despite alpine being the borderland of current use. I could be honest and say the server linking had a far bigger impact. I could also nitpick and say that changing from desert to alpine led to a lower wvw population. The actual answer is somewhere in between.

What I haven’t seen is “old hardcore blah blah blah” players come back because of alpine. They were already moved on. This poll shows the vocal minority isn’t representative of reality.

Called it. Didn’t expect the margin to be this decisive though.

kitten it i dont wanna see those desert maps again…

I love roaming around the desert map. My only issue was the sheer size of them, and that darn oasis. The size can easily be helped by granting a permanent movement speed bonus to each and every player. As soon with Alpine, the centre of the map can easily be rearranged into something that’s more fun than the oasis.

I’d much rather see the map be changed over slightly, than be thrown away altogether. Wasted resources on a game mode that barely gets any resources.. Bad call for future updates.

Write it again, instead off having rotation on map do so every player that have entered a borderland map can vote with map your server should have as home borderland map next week. For the vote you simple go to a npc at citadel and place your vote.

Shadow.3475:

Write it again, instead off having rotation on map do so every player that have entered a borderland map can vote with map your server should have as home borderland map next week. For the vote you simple go to a npc at citadel and place your vote.

This would be a neat idea, choose which borderland you want to defend. Depending on the mood that week and the matchup you could end up with 3 alpine, 3 desert, or a mix of borderlands depending on a server’s tastes and those of its opponent’s.

Shadow.3475:

Write it again, instead off having rotation on map do so every player that have entered a borderland map can vote with map your server should have as home borderland map next week. For the vote you simple go to a npc at citadel and place your vote.

This is an interesting idea. I think it’s just my general pessimism is leading me to believe that it wouldn’t work out well though. I imagine it’d lead to server destabilisation / infighting.
There’d be the louder groups in map chat trying to claim “this is an x borderland server, stop voting for y or change server to a y borderland server” in attempts to get their own way rather than allowing people to vote how they want in peace.
Then there’d be the people claiming that having x or y borderland was an unfair advantage when coupled with a or b. You’d still have people blaming “casual WvWers” or “PvEers” if they don’t get their own way in the voting.
It’s probably best if the choice of home borderland map isn’t left to us, and instead is just randomised or determined on Anet’s end in the most opaque way possible.
I just don’t trust people enough to believe they’d behave decently.

Depraved Ambience.7942:

What I don’t get is, for all these players who are hating on the desert borderlands, since it looks like you will be “stuck” with it and you know that ANet is going to release another, amended poll on mixed vs. rotational borderlands, why you don’t just campaign for and vote for mixed borderlands? Then you will always have your alpine maps to play on, and those who like and enjoy and want to play on desert borderlands can do so also.

I mean, if you were to vote for mixed borderlands, then you won’t be “stuck” playing anything…

We kittening did overwhelmingly vote for it but Anet said 70% in favor was not enough so they where going to use quarterly rotations. Anet only changed their minds after massive backlash, remember?

I want desert. I voted for 1 desert and 2 alpine. But kitten it if I’m going to say yes to keeping desert after that kittening travesty, without knowing what the implementation poll look like.

Dawdler.8521:

Depraved Ambience.7942:

What I don’t get is, for all these players who are hating on the desert borderlands, since it looks like you will be “stuck” with it and you know that ANet is going to release another, amended poll on mixed vs. rotational borderlands, why you don’t just campaign for and vote for mixed borderlands? Then you will always have your alpine maps to play on, and those who like and enjoy and want to play on desert borderlands can do so also.

I mean, if you were to vote for mixed borderlands, then you won’t be “stuck” playing anything…

We kittening did overwhelmingly vote for it but Anet said 70% in favor was not enough so they where going to use quarterly rotations. Anet only changed their minds after massive backlash, remember?

I want desert. I voted for 1 desert and 2 alpine. But kitten it if I’m going to say yes to keeping desert after that kittening travesty, without knowing what the implementation poll look like.

Why not make EBG a desert map? A big sprawling desert map.

And leave all the borderland maps as alpine.

Dawdler.8521:

Foghladha.2506:

We previously voted on what map rotation we’d want and most of us said 2 Alpine 1 Desert. What’s wrong with that concept? Everyone wins.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with it. But Anet said nope, 70% is not a sufficient majority. The 30% wins by default ruling.

Either way, this poll is pretty much done for already. With the current trend there is absolutely no way for the removal of desert to reach the required 75%. Hence, we gonna get it. I dread the next poll on its implementation as the oucome will be decided by what Anets decide is the default ruling and how many options are available. If its 3 months of only desert again… GG community. GG.

We were told it needed 75% in total from the start of the poll, and yet 30% chose to keep the 3 month rotation instead of going with the 2/1. Whether that was a legit 30% that really wanted the rotation, or if it involved a group of disgruntled players who were trying to sabotage that poll, because they were under the impression they could vote out the desert bl in a future poll, who knows.

The poll is here to vote it out, and they can see for themselves now, it’s not going to win.

So now I believe the poll for rotation will come up again, this time without the chance to vote out the desert borderland in the future, are those 30% that voted for 3 month rotation going to change their mind?

If the outcome is DBL stays then hopefully a new poll about mixed borderlands can be released with different decision criteria. Some people might have been voting no on odds that DBL would be removed. ANet has shown that these polls are guidelines but its still their game to make decisions on.

The thing with mixed borderlands is there would then always be an alpine in play, rather than all or nothing.

I’m also in the camp where I don’t understand you people for supporting bringing back the desert bl. For the time we had it, all I ever heard was how much people hated it. Maybe there’s changes, but they’re not going to change how poorly the borderland flowed with actual practical combat. There were too many chokes and such close quarters combat that worked against decent fights, that anyone who had a smaller group was either one pushed entirely, forced to retreat into a choke (which there was a plethora of) or there were just blatantly no fights at all. And maybe that had something to do with the decline of WvW at the time, maybe it had to do with PvE being popular at the time, or maybe people just really protested that hard against the bl. (The later of which I can definitely attest to because I’m part of a guild who preferred PvE over the bl and they had previously been a WvW guild.)

Let’s not forget the fact that it felt half finished in the first place. It had potential to be something, but without the HoT mechanics (toadstool jumping, mushrooms, and gliding) it fell really short of that potential. And I’m not insisting that any of those mechanics come into WvW because then it would break the game. But I AM saying that it would make a decent PvE map or a casual core raid map to get people into that kind of content. It’s just not a WvW map because it feels like it was never made with the intention of fighting another server and more of “let’s cap this objective because there’s nothing else to do”. Which is exactly how it turned out. As I’ve always understood this game mode, it’s about taking objectives to make the other servers mad enough to fight you. This…? This felt like impotent rage. They took something but you can’t do anything about it until they look the other way because there isn’t enough room to fight or get away from the siege the other server is humping in that tower/keep.

Dawdler.8521:

Until we have the vote deciding how a possible implementation look like – since the vote where 70% in favor of mixed borders was disapproved by Anet – I stick by my statement:

I will vote for the border to be removed period, anything else is too risky for the overall wellbeing of the community.

Imagine if we have this vote, decide to keep desert. And then they make another kittened beyond belief poll with confused wording and the majority of the community once again get steamrolled by the minority on a default ruling? No. Just no.

Apparently you missed the post from the devs saying that they were going to reword and redo the 1bl-2bl mixed bls poll…..AFTER this poll.

Xenesis.6389:

Dawdler.8521:

Foghladha.2506:

We previously voted on what map rotation we’d want and most of us said 2 Alpine 1 Desert. What’s wrong with that concept? Everyone wins.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with it. But Anet said nope, 70% is not a sufficient majority. The 30% wins by default ruling.

Either way, this poll is pretty much done for already. With the current trend there is absolutely no way for the removal of desert to reach the required 75%. Hence, we gonna get it. I dread the next poll on its implementation as the oucome will be decided by what Anets decide is the default ruling and how many options are available. If its 3 months of only desert again… GG community. GG.

We were told it needed 75% in total from the start of the poll, and yet 30% chose to keep the 3 month rotation instead of going with the 2/1. Whether that was a legit 30% that really wanted the rotation, or if it involved a group of disgruntled players who were trying to sabotage that poll, because they were under the impression they could vote out the desert bl in a future poll, who knows.

The poll is here to vote it out, and they can see for themselves now, it’s not going to win.

So now I believe the poll for rotation will come up again, this time without the chance to vote out the desert borderland in the future, are those 30% that voted for 3 month rotation going to change their mind?

Yup, devs posted that they were going to reword and redo that bl mixing poll AFTER this poll.

Just a heads up……concerning the mixed bls poll…..

From the thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Poll-31-May-Mixed-Borderlands-CLOSED/page/8

Tyler Bearce.3427:

The results turned out more mixed than we think will be good for the future health of the game. For that reason we are going to run a “Remove Desert Borderlands?” poll first and then run a variation of this poll again. The updated poll will be reworded for clarification due to large amounts of feedback that many of the ‘No’ votes were cast with a misunderstanding of what they meant.

echosound.5490:

I’m also in the camp where I don’t understand you people for supporting bringing back the desert bl. For the time we had it, all I ever heard was how much people hated it. Maybe there’s changes, but they’re not going to change how poorly the borderland flowed with actual practical combat. There were too many chokes and such close quarters combat that worked against decent fights, that anyone who had a smaller group was either one pushed entirely, forced to retreat into a choke (which there was a plethora of) or there were just blatantly no fights at all. And maybe that had something to do with the decline of WvW at the time, maybe it had to do with PvE being popular at the time, or maybe people just really protested that hard against the bl. (The later of which I can definitely attest to because I’m part of a guild who preferred PvE over the bl and they had previously been a WvW guild.)

Let’s not forget the fact that it felt half finished in the first place. It had potential to be something, but without the HoT mechanics (toadstool jumping, mushrooms, and gliding) it fell really short of that potential. And I’m not insisting that any of those mechanics come into WvW because then it would break the game. But I AM saying that it would make a decent PvE map or a casual core raid map to get people into that kind of content. It’s just not a WvW map because it feels like it was never made with the intention of fighting another server and more of “let’s cap this objective because there’s nothing else to do”. Which is exactly how it turned out. As I’ve always understood this game mode, it’s about taking objectives to make the other servers mad enough to fight you. This…? This felt like impotent rage. They took something but you can’t do anything about it until they look the other way because there isn’t enough room to fight or get away from the siege the other server is humping in that tower/keep.

I don’t understand people who just want to throw away a map without letting it get some work done to it before completely writing it off. Tangled depths was the same for pve, most players wrote that map off saying how terrible it is, yet anet worked on fixing it and it’s gotten a lot better. Ruins of Orr was also crap when it came out and it was fine tuned later on. I hate Tangled depths but you don’t see me running to the forums demanding it to be removed, nope I just zone over to auric basin and have my fun there. Could do the same if we had the 2/1 rotation.

The desert borderland also came out at a time when a lot of changes were happening, it created the perfect storm for wvw. Guild catapult supply increased, guildhalls grind, wvw guildhall upgrades, the earlier stability changes that encouraged pirate ship meta which was making wvw increasingly less fun, a brand new class that was turning combat upside down along with the new elite specs, auto upgrades. The expansion killed off roaming and havoc entirely.

Yes the desert borderland has problems, but let’s not pretend like the rest of the changes to wvw didn’t share in the population leaving wvw. Most of those other things have been tweaked(stability) or finally accepted(guild hall upgrades), it’s time to let the same happen for the desert bl.

Also your guild switched to pve over that bl? you guys are cray cray, those maps are 10x worse than the desert bl for the gimmicks and layouts, maybe Mo was right generally when you’re into wvw you’re really into pve.

The thing that strikes me is that most people wrote off desert borderlands based on the original version. They made complaints and anet made many modifications including removing chokepoints and barricades and really opening up the map. Those complaining have not really played out the newer version of it, which feels more open to me than alpine does because of how the cliffs in alpine are laid out.

Teon.5168:

Dawdler.8521:

Until we have the vote deciding how a possible implementation look like – since the vote where 70% in favor of mixed borders was disapproved by Anet – I stick by my statement:

I will vote for the border to be removed period, anything else is too risky for the overall wellbeing of the community.

Imagine if we have this vote, decide to keep desert. And then they make another kittened beyond belief poll with confused wording and the majority of the community once again get steamrolled by the minority on a default ruling? No. Just no.

Apparently you missed the post from the devs saying that they were going to reword and redo the 1bl-2bl mixed bls poll…..AFTER this poll.

Apparently you missed reading the first kitten sentence in the post you quote. I know its going to be redone – I read this poll options too. I just dont trust Anet to do it better until I see it. If the vote is just do you want mixed borders or not without the assumption that not getting 75% on mixed will mean we get quarterly rotations then fine. I think mixed would easily win. But again, I dont trust Anet with that at this point in time. I would be happy if the outcome is what people here assume will happen. I will laugh if Anet pushes everyone up against a wall and go for quarterly rotations on default ruling because it’s a poll with 5 different choices and a 75% requirement on one of them.

Dawdler.8521:

Teon.5168:

Dawdler.8521:

Until we have the vote deciding how a possible implementation look like – since the vote where 70% in favor of mixed borders was disapproved by Anet – I stick by my statement:

I will vote for the border to be removed period, anything else is too risky for the overall wellbeing of the community.

Imagine if we have this vote, decide to keep desert. And then they make another kittened beyond belief poll with confused wording and the majority of the community once again get steamrolled by the minority on a default ruling? No. Just no.

Apparently you missed the post from the devs saying that they were going to reword and redo the 1bl-2bl mixed bls poll…..AFTER this poll.

Apparently you missed reading the first kitten sentence in the post you quote. I know its going to be redone – I read this poll options too. I just dont trust Anet to do it better until I see it. If the vote is just do you want mixed borders or not without the assumption that not getting 75% on mixed will mean we get quarterly rotations then fine. I think mixed would easily win. But again, I dont trust Anet with that at this point in time. I would be happy if the outcome is what people here assume will happen. I will laugh if Anet pushes everyone up against a wall and go for quarterly rotations on default ruling because it’s a poll with 5 different choices and a 75% requirement on one of them.

Fair enough. I did miss that first sentence of your post. I have been here long enough that I should know better than to skim posts if I am going to reply.

I don’t really play anymore; but wouldn’t the easiest solution to this, and to keep with variety….

Have Alpine/Desert/Edge of the Mists be the Borderland Maps?

Terravos.4059:

I don’t really play anymore; but wouldn’t the easiest solution to this, and to keep with variety….

Have Alpine/Desert/Edge of the Mists be the Borderland Maps?

I am all for abl/dbl……but no thanks on eotm. Eotm would need a huge rework before it could be a viable bl, imo.

I would like it if DBL was resized to be the same size as ABL and then make a 3rd different map and have 1 of each map for the borderlands. That is about all the variety i think i would need.

Xenesis.6389:

We were told it needed 75% in total from the start of the poll, and yet 30% chose to keep the 3 month rotation instead of going with the 2/1. Whether that was a legit 30% that really wanted the rotation, or if it involved a group of disgruntled players who were trying to sabotage that poll, because they were under the impression they could vote out the desert bl in a future poll, who knows.

The poll is here to vote it out, and they can see for themselves now, it’s not going to win.

So now I believe the poll for rotation will come up again, this time without the chance to vote out the desert borderland in the future, are those 30% that voted for 3 month rotation going to change their mind?

The original poll was very badly worded, I believe many players misinterpreted it. But I would hope that anet also review their 75% requirement, especially when they’ve shown with the previous poll to the current one that they are prepared to treat the polls as guidelines. Rotating DBL in for 3 months would be a disaster, far better to have mixed BLs.

cobalt.1846:

I would like it if DBL was resized to be the same size as ABL and then make a 3rd different map and have 1 of each map for the borderlands. That is about all the variety i think i would need.

I believed the devs mentioned discussions about that 3rd bl possibility. I wouldn’t be surprised if we eventually see something like that in wvw.

With the poll on the server pairing rotation, they showed that they are willing to put in a compromise if no one option received the requisite percentage of votes. With this poll, they are forcing a 75% vote to do the one thing they were certain players wouldn’t like, so of course it is going the way it was expected. For the next DBL vote, they should say, “we will have 2 ABLs and 1 DBL, with the option later to add a 3rd map in place of one ABL, unless 75% do not agree.”

ETA: Requiring the 75% vote to be the negative action instead of the positive action is working better, it seems.

Xenesis.6389:

I don’t understand people who just want to throw away a map without letting it get some work done to it before completely writing it off. Tangled depths was the same for pve, most players wrote that map off saying how terrible it is, yet anet worked on fixing it and it’s gotten a lot better. Ruins of Orr was also crap when it came out and it was fine tuned later on. I hate Tangled depths but you don’t see me running to the forums demanding it to be removed, nope I just zone over to auric basin and have my fun there. Could do the same if we had the 2/1 rotation.

The desert borderland also came out at a time when a lot of changes were happening, it created the perfect storm for wvw. Guild catapult supply increased, guildhalls grind, wvw guildhall upgrades, the earlier stability changes that encouraged pirate ship meta which was making wvw increasingly less fun, a brand new class that was turning combat upside down along with the new elite specs, auto upgrades. The expansion killed off roaming and havoc entirely.

Yes the desert borderland has problems, but let’s not pretend like the rest of the changes to wvw didn’t share in the population leaving wvw. Most of those other things have been tweaked(stability) or finally accepted(guild hall upgrades), it’s time to let the same happen for the desert bl.

Also your guild switched to pve over that bl? you guys are cray cray, those maps are 10x worse than the desert bl for the gimmicks and layouts, maybe Mo was right generally when you’re into wvw you’re really into pve.

First off, only the one guild I had been apart of for a majority of my WvW career had then turned to PvE in protest. The other I was way more active in at the time and mained in has stayed true to WvW the entire time. I don’t know the extent of the first mentioned guild’s motivations, other than they refused to WvW on the maps because they disliked them that much.

Second, the changes they put in didn’t really make me feel much better about the map at all. It was still hard to play in and felt extremely cramped to me, on top of still feeling like absolutely no objective actually mattered in the grand scheme of things. In that respect, it was very Edge of the Mists. “Eh, we can just back cap it for the exp”, if you get my drift? I don’t know how many of my guildmates share that perspective, but I can tell you most of us probably do. There was never incentive to keep or capture objectives except for ppt because no one came out to fight unless they knew they could run you over. Especially because there’s no place to fight without extreme heights around, extreme close quarters, or going very out of your way to get to an open field, which were few and far between my friend.

Admittedly the changes I got to observe made it better, but over all it’s not an enjoyable map for the mechanics that feel like they’re missing from it. And, like I said, I don’t want to say they should add the HoT stuff in because it would be very game breaking. It’s just always felt like there was something missing, and that the desert bl would make a great casual core raid map. I imagine it would be great fun if you had four teams, one to start on each corner of the map, and push into the middle oasis area and/or garrison for a giant boss fight. But as a WvW map? It’s abysmal. No offense, anet! I just think that in light of having to have a twitch castor interview commanders from across all servers and then polling us, you don’t play enough of the game type to know what players need or want. But I’m also of the firm belief that anet underestimates WvW as a game type and how interesting it would be as a grand scale type esport for spectatorship. Seriously, how cool would it be to watch your server or your favorite one and root for them like a sports team? Heck, imagine the merch if that’s how it was handled! haha

Depraved Ambience.7942:

What I don’t get is, for all these players who are hating on the desert borderlands, since it looks like you will be “stuck” with it and you know that ANet is going to release another, amended poll on mixed vs. rotational borderlands, why you don’t just campaign for and vote for mixed borderlands? Then you will always have your alpine maps to play on, and those who like and enjoy and want to play on desert borderlands can do so also.

I mean, if you were to vote for mixed borderlands, then you won’t be “stuck” playing anything…

At this point, kinda just done with it. Organized and competitive WvW is coming to an end and it’s just that simple. WvW Veterans thinking we could stop the conversion toward mode irrelevance was our mistake.

DeWolfe.2174:

Depraved Ambience.7942:

What I don’t get is, for all these players who are hating on the desert borderlands, since it looks like you will be “stuck” with it and you know that ANet is going to release another, amended poll on mixed vs. rotational borderlands, why you don’t just campaign for and vote for mixed borderlands? Then you will always have your alpine maps to play on, and those who like and enjoy and want to play on desert borderlands can do so also.

I mean, if you were to vote for mixed borderlands, then you won’t be “stuck” playing anything…

At this point, kinda just done with it. Organized and competitive WvW is coming to an end and it’s just that simple. WvW Veterans thinking we could stop the conversion toward mode irrelevance was our mistake.

Organized and competitive wvw is coming to an end for you. Period. That’s it….no “we”.
For many others, wvw continues to be a fun place with, hopefully, more positive changes coming. I wish you the best of luck in finding a new game that fits you better.

Don’t mistake your self proclaimed “we” as anything more than you and maybe a few of your friends.

The poll alone shows that you don’t speak for any sort of majority, no matter how over-valued your self importance might be.

Dang, I need more popcorn.

Bury Your Deadgreen.2368:

DBL it is I guess! Finally have the motivation to go play another game

I’m with you. Actively looking for a good game. Any ideas? I was thinking of finally getting into Fallout 4.

Xenesis.6389:

I don’t understand people who just want to throw away a map without letting it get some work done to it before completely writing it off. Tangled depths was the same for pve, most players wrote that map off saying how terrible it is, yet anet worked on fixing it and it’s gotten a lot better. Ruins of Orr was also crap when it came out and it was fine tuned later on. I hate Tangled depths but you don’t see me running to the forums demanding it to be removed, nope I just zone over to auric basin and have my fun there. Could do the same if we had the 2/1 rotation.

This part of your comment makes little to no sense. Right in it, you say that you hated Tangled Depths but you weren’t “…running to the forums demanding it to be removed…” and that you just zoned “… over to auric basin…” and had your fun there.

When the DBL comes into play, if someone doesn’t like it, other than EB, to which map do you suppose we should zone in order to have fun?

The last time the DBLs were used, EB would have a queue and the DBLs would be virtually empty. People zoned alright. They zoned right out of WvW.

misterman.1530:

When the DBL comes into play, if someone doesn’t like it, other than EB, to which map do you suppose we should zone in order to have fun?

Vote 1DBL:2ABL in the next poll. Go to one of the two Alpine Borderlands or to EBG.

misterman.1530:

The last time the DBLs were used, EB would have a queue and the DBLs would be virtually empty. People zoned alright. They zoned right out of WvW.

This has been debated to death:

a) Whilst it is clear a vocal minority hated the DBLs that much, it is not at all clear that was why they were so empty. All the other HoT changes and activity (Guild Hall, mastery, specialisation, Reverent grinding, to name but a few) definitely caused WvW to hollow out and it is not surprising, with reduced numbers that those remaining chose to gather on one map out of 4.

b) Even if the original state of the DBLs didn’t help (and I do agree the original maps were frustrating to move around) it is not at all clear that it is true of the current maps. The DBLs were all queued after April 19th. The “vocal minority” said it “was just because people were preparing for the ABLs”!! This always sounded like confirmation bias and the current poll confirms that.

and finally……. c) Participation seem to have plummeted again after only about 4-6 weeks of activity. Not down to post-HoT levels, but to unhealthy levels, none the less. The ABLs were not a magic bullet. Those of us who remember the state of the game before HoT knew that. HoT was the final nail, but the game was already stale and in decline.

The game needs more variety and innovation not less. The Poll proves beyond doubt that this is the opinion of a significant majority. Case closed.

You’re missing the point. EB has always had queue’s as long as the ocean is wide, but it became a competitive race to get EB and hold it for as long as you could, and the losers were left with the desert bl as a consolation prize. Some guilds readjusted their raid time so they could snipe EB earlier and hold it for longer. The guilds left with dbl after that? Sometimes had virtually nothing to do but cap/back cap something. There for a while my guild would be bored enough that we’d go into edge of the mists for something to do.

Look, I’m all for innovation and variety, but only when it works well with the game mode. You can’t turn something like WvW (a game mode that some of us are only ever on for) on its head and expect players to be happy. They WILL find other games out there, and I know several who have. Gaming is a fickle business, and either cater to the people who actually play that content or don’t do anything at all.

We were EU T1 at the time (now is another matter!) and we rarely had queues, even in EB, post HoT!

But I would argue it’s you missing the point (and the Poll results agree):

a) After HoT, with all the PvE stuff being done, there were simply not enough people for 4 maps. People focused on EB to get a decent population (that’s what I did!).

b) Because of a), if you ended up on the DBl it was inevitably empty.

c) The maps were horrid to be in, partially because they were empty.

This led to a self-perpetuating impression that the DBls were hated and they were hated partially because they were empty! It was a vicious circle of hate and despair! When the population returned, after the mid-April changes, many found great fun the the DBls. Their queues were almost as big as the ABls, when they came back, and bigger than the queues now, or just before HoT, although, the die-hard haters didn’t really give them a chance and some (a clear minority), I accept clearly still do just want to play ABl.

Now I am not saying those maps were not flawed when they were released, but the changes Anet have made have already largely fixed those problems. Could they be further improved? Yes! But is the answer to dump them and start again, with possibly another 2 years of playing only the ABLs…….. absolutely not!

If DBL has the following:

1. Keep home map WPs, that must be earned through upgrades, in East and West keeps. Any team can get them, providing they put in the upgrade work.
2. Adjust towers surrounding those keeps (and Garrison) on DBL so that they have the ability to be used as a point of attack (ie. trebs can hit the keeps from towers — and keeps can hit the towers).
3. Keep gimmicks out of the centre map, please oh please. Having a contested WP in centre — a single building or squared-out holding space, that any team can get the WP would be fine enough. No gimmicks, just simple. Heck, bring back the bloodlust points instead of the WP, those were fine too.

It doesn’t matter that the DBL map is bigger if the above is in place. In fact it gives a certain advantage defensively to the lowest-ranked server in the tier.

Use of 2 alpine, 1 dbl + eb I think would satisfy most — where dbl goes to the lowest ranked server (motivation to stay with that map and reduce ppt to keep it, or motivation to ppt to get a different map, depending on your preference).

Desert Borderlands to stay.Those that saying that Desert Borderlands killed WvW are lazy people that did not want to learn new mechanics or want changes at all.Well in fact,new borderlands maps are far better then Alpines and only problem with them were community that did not even want to try new maps.When maps come out there were lots of problems but those problems regarding quick access to all parts of maps are now solved.
What Anet doing now with this pools i simply LOVE.It use to be that VOCAL minority decide the course of actions and decide what our game will be with that "what i want,community want logic)…Now we see what community really wants,just cause few of you are vocal and spam forums doesn’t mean you are community voice.

Borderlands to stay and be put into rotation !

saalle.4623:

Desert Borderlands to stay.Those that saying that Desert Borderlands killed WvW are lazy people that did not want to learn new mechanics or want changes at all.Well in fact,new borderlands maps are far better then Alpines and only problem with them were community that did not even want to try new maps.When maps come out there were lots of problems but those problems regarding quick access to all parts of maps are now solved.
What Anet doing now with this pools i simply LOVE.It use to be that VOCAL minority decide the course of actions and decide what our game will be with that "what i want,community want logic)…Now we see what community really wants,just cause few of you are vocal and spam forums doesn’t mean you are community voice.

Borderlands to stay and be put into rotation !

Like I said in another post, it was that vocal minority that got you this communication. The map poll may have bit them in the kitten for it but remember “Be careful what you ask for”.

Those who remain are going to have to live with your decision.

Jayne.9251:

If DBL has the following:

1. Keep home map WPs, that must be earned through upgrades, in East and West keeps. Any team can get them, providing they put in the upgrade work.
2. Adjust towers surrounding those keeps (and Garrison) on DBL so that they have the ability to be used as a point of attack (ie. trebs can hit the keeps from towers — and keeps can hit the towers).
3. Keep gimmicks out of the centre map, please oh please. Having a contested WP in centre — a single building or squared-out holding space, that any team can get the WP would be fine enough. No gimmicks, just simple. Heck, bring back the bloodlust points instead of the WP, those were fine too.

It doesn’t matter that the DBL map is bigger if the above is in place. In fact it gives a certain advantage defensively to the lowest-ranked server in the tier.

Use of 2 alpine, 1 dbl + eb I think would satisfy most — where dbl goes to the lowest ranked server (motivation to stay with that map and reduce ppt to keep it, or motivation to ppt to get a different map, depending on your preference).

I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure 1. is already done.

2. I agree. If it’s too hard to move the towers I suggested elsewhere a new fixed long-range weapon, just for those towers, that can hit the outer walls of Garri, has to be built like a treb, maybe can be “upgraded” to be 2 or 3 times as powerful, like multiple trebs and which can be countered/destroyed from outside the tower.

3. I agree. I suggested, again elsewhere, a simplified walled arena, for big open field fights (emulating the fights people like in SM), that, when held, gives a WP and (maybe!) some other buffs, like the bloodlust points. I thought it could be a quarry, with faster supply benefits to those that hold it, but I’d be happy if we dropped that bit and just had the WP!

They did do #1. Just want to make sure it stays

saalle.4623:

Desert Borderlands to stay.Those that saying that Desert Borderlands killed WvW are lazy people that did not want to learn new mechanics or want changes at all.

Once again, where were you all when DBL was active?
I spent countless hours in south map waiting for groups to fight but it was DEAD except for people doing their dailies or guild missions.

Apparently, the vast majority want to play in this map again. I’m ok with that. I mean, I don’t care about map mechanics, I just want fights, and the most recent version of DBL was great for fights. But once again, if the “majority” doesn’t show and just queue EB, get ready to see a kitten ton of complains on these forums by the “vocal minority”.

Silverkey.2078:

and DBL have had a lot of work invested in it which would be a waste to just throw away.

The old sunk cost fallacy.

Nausicca.6038:

saalle.4623:

Desert Borderlands to stay.Those that saying that Desert Borderlands killed WvW are lazy people that did not want to learn new mechanics or want changes at all.

Once again, where were you all when DBL was active?
I spent countless hours in south map waiting for groups to fight but it was DEAD except for people doing their dailies or guild missions.

Apparently, the vast majority want to play in this map again. I’m ok with that. I mean, I don’t care about map mechanics, I just want fights, and the most recent version of DBL was great for fights. But once again, if the “majority” doesn’t show and just queue EB, get ready to see a kitten ton of complains on these forums by the “vocal minority”.

this activity seems to be based on what tier you were on. BG and YB guild groups often went to DBL to avoid the map que cancer blobs of EBG. JQ, not so much. The mega blobs can be fun some of the time, but any fight where skills don’t work (which was often the case around SM) is hardly a fight…

The fights really were better on the BL than on EBG. Please note: I am not saying the same thing wouldn’t have happened on the ABL, just saying t1 na prime the DBL were far from a barren wasteland of ktrains, guild missions, and dailies….

Nausicca.6038:

People voting for DBL better show their kittening butts and not queue EB when Anet will switch to these BLs .

+1, I will only play at EB if you force DBL into game or just log off. I’m back because you deleted this horrible map and now you wanna make it appear again, you will lose me and my fellas again. I suggest you to stop whining like a little b. and keep it deleted.

floude.5291:

I will only play at EB if you force DBL into game or just log off…….. now you wanna make it appear again, you will lose me and my fellas again………. I suggest you to stop whining like a little b….

Sorry, I’m not normally one to pick people up on this kind of stuff, but did you read what you just wrote?! The only people whining are those like you, wanting to kill the DBl, which is clear from the poll is not going to happen. I suggest you take your own advice!

Question for the Devs:

When the poll closes, can we get a translation from % to numbers for each slice?

Jong.5937:

floude.5291:

I will only play at EB if you force DBL into game or just log off…….. now you wanna make it appear again, you will lose me and my fellas again………. I suggest you to stop whining like a little b….

Sorry, I’m not normally one to pick people up on this kind of stuff, but did you read what you just wrote?! The only people whining are those like you, wanting to kill the DBl, which is clear from the poll is not going to happen. I suggest you take your own advice!

Ok another advice, make people vote only if they have some certain experience with www. I don’t want you force me to play at this map because you guys who only play few hours in a month want to. I only do roaming and roaming at DBL is like playing a walking simulator WITHOUT A VOICE OVER.