Guild Wars 2

floude.5291:

Jong.5937:

floude.5291:

I will only play at EB if you force DBL into game or just log off…….. now you wanna make it appear again, you will lose me and my fellas again………. I suggest you to stop whining like a little b….

Sorry, I’m not normally one to pick people up on this kind of stuff, but did you read what you just wrote?! The only people whining are those like you, wanting to kill the DBl, which is clear from the poll is not going to happen. I suggest you take your own advice!

Ok another advice, make people vote only if they have some certain experience with www. I don’t want you force me to play at this map because you guys who only play few hours in a month want to. I only do roaming and roaming at DBL is like playing a walking simulator WITHOUT A VOICE OVER.

So, in other words, people that only play like you do should have been allowed to vote?

LOL….mmmkay.

Teon.5168:

floude.5291:

Jong.5937:

floude.5291:

I will only play at EB if you force DBL into game or just log off…….. now you wanna make it appear again, you will lose me and my fellas again………. I suggest you to stop whining like a little b….

Sorry, I’m not normally one to pick people up on this kind of stuff, but did you read what you just wrote?! The only people whining are those like you, wanting to kill the DBl, which is clear from the poll is not going to happen. I suggest you take your own advice!

Ok another advice, make people vote only if they have some certain experience with www. I don’t want you force me to play at this map because you guys who only play few hours in a month want to. I only do roaming and roaming at DBL is like playing a walking simulator WITHOUT A VOICE OVER.

So, in other words, people that only play like you do should have been allowed to vote?

LOL….mmmkay.

exactly I don’t pursue any of my opinions about pve since I know only pve players can understand pve issues and only you guys can experience these issues. I don’t come and force you to experience that misery with expressing my hollow opinion and trying to convince developers which are already have very few ideas about the situation (look at their last 4 changes haha)

look I’m a psychologist and when a patient comes with complaints about some drugs, I don’t express opinion even if I got a psychopharmachology lesson in both BA and MA; it is not my area, it is not my duty; being silent is much better if you don’t know any adequate information/knowledge about the issue; I refer them to a psychiatrist in order to not to interrupt or worsen the therapy.

Also check this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritocracy, What I say is let www to www players.

If you are a psychologist you will know all about confirmation bias and should do a bit of self analysis. You will really need to explain to me how you backup your assertion that the majority who disagree with you are not “WvW players”!

I would suggest that those who bother to use the WvW forums and vote on WvW issues represent, on average, players who are significantly more active than the average.

Jong.5937:

If you are a psychologist you will know all about confirmation bias and should do a bit of self analysis. You will really need to explain to me how you backup your assertion that the majority who disagree with you are not “WvW players”!

I would suggest that those who bother to use the WvW forums and vote on WvW issues represent, on average, players who are significantly more active than the average.

And that is how the DBL was removed in the first place!!!

Ok here are the data we got: WWW was in a bad position before DBL, With DBL it went down the hill, Now after some improvements people came back but still there are problems with it.
‘Not WWW players’ stands there because there is no restriction for people who can troll the poll or mindlesly/ignorantly vote. If you are trying to enhance something, you need to do that with people who specialized on the thing; othervise you do a selection problem which is most of the time the predator of the study.

Nice statement you got there but still not very decent, the people who read WWW forums may be the guys who like or interested in www however there can be other players who don’t really care about forums (which are not really taken seriously even from developers; check their usage of reddit) and pretty active at www. The best way is to implement an in game module to make the representative sample vote and take decisions on what they play.

Lastly, yea becoming psychologist require self analysis; when i look back and think about what I say, I still feel convinced about my statement. It does not mean you are right if you got the majority (which is created falsely/inadequately); it only gives you to power to pursue others to listen to you, i’ll see you after you’ll face with empty borderlands.

floude.5291:

Ok here are the data we got: WWW was in a bad position before DBL, With DBL it went down the hill, Now after some improvements people came back but still there are problems with it.
‘Not WWW players’ stands there because there is no restriction for people who can troll the poll or mindlesly/ignorantly vote. If you are trying to enhance something, you need to do that with people who specialized on the thing; othervise you do a selection problem which is most of the time the predator of the study.

Nice statement you got there but still not very decent, the people who read WWW forums may be the guys who like or interested in www however there can be other players who don’t really care about forums (which are not really taken seriously even from developers; check their usage of reddit) and pretty active at www. The best way is to implement an in game module to make the representative sample vote and take decisions on what they play.

Lastly, yea becoming psychologist require self analysis; when i look back and think about what I say, I still feel convinced about my statement. It does not mean you are right if you got the majority (which is created falsely/inadequately); it only gives you to power to pursue others to listen to you, i’ll see you after you’ll face with empty borderlands.

Prior to the polls, the forum was all we had for communication. It was our screaming and foot stomping tantrums that brought you this level of communication…

floude.5291:

Teon.5168:

floude.5291:

Jong.5937:

floude.5291:

I will only play at EB if you force DBL into game or just log off…….. now you wanna make it appear again, you will lose me and my fellas again………. I suggest you to stop whining like a little b….

Sorry, I’m not normally one to pick people up on this kind of stuff, but did you read what you just wrote?! The only people whining are those like you, wanting to kill the DBl, which is clear from the poll is not going to happen. I suggest you take your own advice!

Ok another advice, make people vote only if they have some certain experience with www. I don’t want you force me to play at this map because you guys who only play few hours in a month want to. I only do roaming and roaming at DBL is like playing a walking simulator WITHOUT A VOICE OVER.

So, in other words, people that only play like you do should have been allowed to vote?

LOL….mmmkay.

exactly I don’t pursue any of my opinions about pve since I know only pve players can understand pve issues and only you guys can experience these issues. I don’t come and force you to experience that misery with expressing my hollow opinion and trying to convince developers which are already have very few ideas about the situation (look at their last 4 changes haha)

look I’m a psychologist and when a patient comes with complaints about some drugs, I don’t express opinion even if I got a psychopharmachology lesson in both BA and MA; it is not my area, it is not my duty; being silent is much better if you don’t know any adequate information/knowledge about the issue; I refer them to a psychiatrist in order to not to interrupt or worsen the therapy.

Also check this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritocracy, What I say is let www to www players.

I AM a wvw player. So what’s your point?

And I have to laugh at the professional declaration, “doctor”. I doubt if you could have gotten very far in college (let alone your supposed field when it requires a high degree of literacy, especially in writing) with your horrid sentence and paragraph structure, not to mention your spelling. Guess what? I am a fighter pilot! LOL….see how that works?

Keeping dbls around is winning in the poll by almost a 2-1 margin. Despite your self professed psycho-babbling, dbls is here to stay.

Read some more of your psychology textbooks and learn how to deal with it.

Anet always said they wanted to ultimately use both the DBl and ABl and now they are. Frankly I think they should have done that from the start. They never said the DBl was being removed permanently.

A lot of people, me included, were not happy with the 1st version of the DBl and fortunately Anet listened, changed the maps and accelerated the work on bringing the ABls back into the rotation and that is all good.

However, then, a very vocal, subset of the community, that has now been proven to be in a clear minority, whipped themselves into a frenzy of hate and lost all sense of perspective. Fortunately Anet didn’t just fold under the pressure but instead conducted a proper poll.

Haha it was an example, I’m here as a WWW roamer, and a good one tbh. I also have statistical knowledge which is very related with the current topic. I concur, I suggest you to stop whining or you’ll play at empty borderlands and experience beatiful PVD play.

@floude – you do know that the most likely scenario is 1 dbl and 2 abl right? You wont ever have to step into them…. For others who prefer them, they have that option.

Either way, the people have spoken and it isn’t going away…

floude.5291:

Haha it was an example, I’m here as a WWW roamer, and a good one tbh.

Wait, WWW???? Isn’t that professional wrestling?

Teon.5168:

floude.5291:

Haha it was an example, I’m here as a WWW roamer, and a good one tbh.

Wait, WWW???? Isn’t that professional wrestling?

That was the WWF and they got sued by the Washington Wildlife and Fisheries for that acronym and web address, lol.

Loosmaster.8263:

Teon.5168:

floude.5291:

Haha it was an example, I’m here as a WWW roamer, and a good one tbh.

Wait, WWW???? Isn’t that professional wrestling?

That was the WWF and they got sued by the Washington Wildlife and Fisheries for that acronym and web address, lol.

LMAO!!!! Good one.

Loosmaster.8263:

floude.5291:

Ok here are the data we got: WWW was in a bad position before DBL, With DBL it went down the hill, Now after some improvements people came back but still there are problems with it.
‘Not WWW players’ stands there because there is no restriction for people who can troll the poll or mindlesly/ignorantly vote. If you are trying to enhance something, you need to do that with people who specialized on the thing; othervise you do a selection problem which is most of the time the predator of the study.

Nice statement you got there but still not very decent, the people who read WWW forums may be the guys who like or interested in www however there can be other players who don’t really care about forums (which are not really taken seriously even from developers; check their usage of reddit) and pretty active at www. The best way is to implement an in game module to make the representative sample vote and take decisions on what they play.

Lastly, yea becoming psychologist require self analysis; when i look back and think about what I say, I still feel convinced about my statement. It does not mean you are right if you got the majority (which is created falsely/inadequately); it only gives you to power to pursue others to listen to you, i’ll see you after you’ll face with empty borderlands.

Prior to the polls, the forum was all we had for communication. It was our screaming and foot stomping tantrums that brought you this level of communication…

Please no.

I’d say the polls are a great way to make sure those foot stompers aren’t rewarded by pitching a fit.

Jayne.9251:

Loosmaster.8263:

floude.5291:

Ok here are the data we got: WWW was in a bad position before DBL, With DBL it went down the hill, Now after some improvements people came back but still there are problems with it.
‘Not WWW players’ stands there because there is no restriction for people who can troll the poll or mindlesly/ignorantly vote. If you are trying to enhance something, you need to do that with people who specialized on the thing; othervise you do a selection problem which is most of the time the predator of the study.

Nice statement you got there but still not very decent, the people who read WWW forums may be the guys who like or interested in www however there can be other players who don’t really care about forums (which are not really taken seriously even from developers; check their usage of reddit) and pretty active at www. The best way is to implement an in game module to make the representative sample vote and take decisions on what they play.

Lastly, yea becoming psychologist require self analysis; when i look back and think about what I say, I still feel convinced about my statement. It does not mean you are right if you got the majority (which is created falsely/inadequately); it only gives you to power to pursue others to listen to you, i’ll see you after you’ll face with empty borderlands.

Prior to the polls, the forum was all we had for communication. It was our screaming and foot stomping tantrums that brought you this level of communication…

Please no.

I’d say the polls are a great way to make sure those foot stompers aren’t rewarded by pitching a fit.

Hey, look at it in a positive light. At least one of them finally admitted that they were “foot stomping tantrums”.

Teon.5168:

Hey, look at it in a positive light. At least one of them finally admitted that they were “foot stomping tantrums”.

Well, as we all know… a happy person seldom a forum post makes. Or if he does, it gets drowned out quickly by the collective unhappiness of most forum posters.

Teon.5168:

Jayne.9251:

Loosmaster.8263:

floude.5291:

Ok here are the data we got: WWW was in a bad position before DBL, With DBL it went down the hill, Now after some improvements people came back but still there are problems with it.
‘Not WWW players’ stands there because there is no restriction for people who can troll the poll or mindlesly/ignorantly vote. If you are trying to enhance something, you need to do that with people who specialized on the thing; othervise you do a selection problem which is most of the time the predator of the study.

Nice statement you got there but still not very decent, the people who read WWW forums may be the guys who like or interested in www however there can be other players who don’t really care about forums (which are not really taken seriously even from developers; check their usage of reddit) and pretty active at www. The best way is to implement an in game module to make the representative sample vote and take decisions on what they play.

Lastly, yea becoming psychologist require self analysis; when i look back and think about what I say, I still feel convinced about my statement. It does not mean you are right if you got the majority (which is created falsely/inadequately); it only gives you to power to pursue others to listen to you, i’ll see you after you’ll face with empty borderlands.

Prior to the polls, the forum was all we had for communication. It was our screaming and foot stomping tantrums that brought you this level of communication…

Please no.

I’d say the polls are a great way to make sure those foot stompers aren’t rewarded by pitching a fit.

Hey, look at it in a positive light. At least one of them finally admitted that they were “foot stomping tantrums”.

If you look at my history, I never advocated for the removal of the DBL. I was stomping for communications and testing.

Loosmaster.8263:

Teon.5168:

Jayne.9251:

Loosmaster.8263:

floude.5291:

Ok here are the data we got: WWW was in a bad position before DBL, With DBL it went down the hill, Now after some improvements people came back but still there are problems with it.
‘Not WWW players’ stands there because there is no restriction for people who can troll the poll or mindlesly/ignorantly vote. If you are trying to enhance something, you need to do that with people who specialized on the thing; othervise you do a selection problem which is most of the time the predator of the study.

Nice statement you got there but still not very decent, the people who read WWW forums may be the guys who like or interested in www however there can be other players who don’t really care about forums (which are not really taken seriously even from developers; check their usage of reddit) and pretty active at www. The best way is to implement an in game module to make the representative sample vote and take decisions on what they play.

Lastly, yea becoming psychologist require self analysis; when i look back and think about what I say, I still feel convinced about my statement. It does not mean you are right if you got the majority (which is created falsely/inadequately); it only gives you to power to pursue others to listen to you, i’ll see you after you’ll face with empty borderlands.

Prior to the polls, the forum was all we had for communication. It was our screaming and foot stomping tantrums that brought you this level of communication…

Please no.

I’d say the polls are a great way to make sure those foot stompers aren’t rewarded by pitching a fit.

Hey, look at it in a positive light. At least one of them finally admitted that they were “foot stomping tantrums”.

If you look at my history, I never advocated for the removal of the DBL. I was stomping for communications and testing.

As I think you already know, I was trying to be humorous with my last post.

Really all decisions should be settled in WvW… Screw polls. 2 sides fight and the winners idea gets implemented.

Maybe just set up the dbl’s like eotm, except week long, and rewards given based on your colours placement as long as you participated, like they were for the wvw tournaments?
This would allow improvement to be worked on while keeping the hardcore wvwer’s happy since they wont have to play on it. While still giving incentive for people to go there and giving a better chance of getting numbers onto the maps.

Knob.6835:

Really all decisions should be settled in WvW… Screw polls. 2 sides fight and the winners idea gets implemented.

And they just thought that the tourneys have permanent decreased WvW players… Though that idea might actually lose less players than this poll will in the end.

The problem with them running off players with their specific actions such as this, is when the people who want to play with those players leave to play the new game the players that left went to play instead so then you lose their friends and then the people who want to play with those people go to play with them instead.. and it takes out many more people than just the ones who were initially unhappy when players talk on social media and find out where everyone is going. In the end the population just continues to decrease as the game ages and people move on to play with their friends elsewhere.

That was what happened during HOT.. even many of the players who liked the DBL left just so they could play with their friends. People want them to make great maps, not just accept a broken map they made somewhat playable. The reason for implementing new content needs to always be to increase game population, increase player satisfaction and increase game longevity. If the new content does not accomplish that, it should have never been released in the first place.

Jong.5937:

conducted a proper poll.

I doubt that it was.

Powerfat.7294:

Maybe just set up the dbl’s like eotm, except week long, and rewards given based on your colours placement as long as you participated, like they were for the wvw tournaments?
This would allow improvement to be worked on while keeping the hardcore wvwer’s happy since they wont have to play on it. While still giving incentive for people to go there and giving a better chance of getting numbers onto the maps.

Set up a DBL as a PvE map with dueling and it won’t count toward the war score, fine great do that please!!!!

DeWolfe.2174:

Jong.5937:

conducted a proper poll.

I doubt that it was.

A proper poll would have been one that was email invite only to WvW players past and present over a certain rank. Not a poll non WvW players and people who have 20 accounts can vote as many times as they like. I pointed that out in the first poll they chunked on forums like this, we have not seen a proper poll as of yet. IF you have 20 accounts, you can vote 20 times.

I mean if someone really wants to win all they have to do is go to Busy PvE centers and start offering gold for people to prove they voted the way they wanted them to. It isn’t like PvE players care what happens in WvW. But that would have to mean people still care enough to do that. LOL

By proper I mainly meant anonymous, which let people express their views without fear of a lynching! But the forum also ensures one vote per account.

Now sure, people could create a load of accounts, or try to entice people with gold in PvE, just to swing things. But I don’t think anyone is seriously suggesting this happened, are you? There is no doubt at all in my mind this is a good representation of the views of the currently active WvW community, which is all you can hope for.

just lol @ vote buying reasoning and ballot box stuffing…..

the reason the poll went the way it did was the # of dbl boycotters/haters was simply just not as many as some people thought…

lil devils x.6071:

DeWolfe.2174:

Jong.5937:

conducted a proper poll.

I doubt that it was.

A proper poll would have been one that was email invite only to WvW players past and present over a certain rank. Not a poll non WvW players and people who have 20 accounts can vote as many times as they like. I pointed that out in the first poll they chunked on forums like this, we have not seen a proper poll as of yet. IF you have 20 accounts, you can vote 20 times.

I mean if someone really wants to win all they have to do is go to Busy PvE centers and start offering gold for people to prove they voted the way they wanted them to. It isn’t like PvE players care what happens in WvW. But that would have to mean people still care enough to do that. LOL

So avid haters of the dbl can be assumed to have voted multiple times in an effort to get their own way, as long as they’re avid enough or the person saying it is paranoid enough? =P

Liston.9708:

just lol @ vote buying reasoning and ballot box stuffing…..

the reason the poll went the way it did was the # of dbl boycotters/haters was simply just not as many as some people thought…

Most people I know are not even voting.. and I didn’t bother telling them there was a poll at this point when I realized how many times I could vote.. There are more than you realize. The thing is people are tired. If you have to tell developers that the purpose of updates is to increase game population, increase player satisfaction, and increase game longevity and they still choose to run off their existing population with the unprofessional way they conducted these polls, ( They didn’t even have to have an option to remove it entirely, they could have just agreed to take it back to beta until players vote on when it is ready as was suggested as a compromise to make sure neither side leaves the game.), taking upgrades away from guilds that some guilds never were able to obtain again, breaking up friends, families, and guilds by server merging/ locking, adding a ton of lame PVE gimmicky crap to WvW that makes more players leave the game than it brings in, it is not worth wasting my time on.

Basically what Anet is doing now is sloppy and ridiculously too little too late, and still in the wrong direction.

EDIT: I did not ask or tell a single person on this game that there was even a poll this time. Not going to bother.

Rashagar.8349:

lil devils x.6071:

DeWolfe.2174:

Jong.5937:

conducted a proper poll.

I doubt that it was.

A proper poll would have been one that was email invite only to WvW players past and present over a certain rank. Not a poll non WvW players and people who have 20 accounts can vote as many times as they like. I pointed that out in the first poll they chunked on forums like this, we have not seen a proper poll as of yet. IF you have 20 accounts, you can vote 20 times.

I mean if someone really wants to win all they have to do is go to Busy PvE centers and start offering gold for people to prove they voted the way they wanted them to. It isn’t like PvE players care what happens in WvW. But that would have to mean people still care enough to do that. LOL

So avid haters of the dbl can be assumed to have voted multiple times in an effort to get their own way, as long as they’re avid enough or the person saying it is paranoid enough? =P

No I was told you could vote more than once , so I did.. and then didn’t bother to care anymore to tell anyone there is even a poll at this point. If you bothered to read my last threads in here, I was advocating to not get rid of it entirely BTW. I asked for them to send it to beta and bring it out when the community voted that it was ready instead of expecting players to play on a map that will not even allow all classes to use their skills in numerous areas in a PvP game mode.

There is nothing I can do to convince players to come back/stay anymore because Anet chooses to run players off instead of try to increase them with terrible decisions that continually make players leave .. over and over and over..

I was told it isn’t worth my time to try and .. I believe them.

lil devils x.6071:

Rashagar.8349:

lil devils x.6071:

DeWolfe.2174:

Jong.5937:

conducted a proper poll.

I doubt that it was.

A proper poll would have been one that was email invite only to WvW players past and present over a certain rank. Not a poll non WvW players and people who have 20 accounts can vote as many times as they like. I pointed that out in the first poll they chunked on forums like this, we have not seen a proper poll as of yet. IF you have 20 accounts, you can vote 20 times.

I mean if someone really wants to win all they have to do is go to Busy PvE centers and start offering gold for people to prove they voted the way they wanted them to. It isn’t like PvE players care what happens in WvW. But that would have to mean people still care enough to do that. LOL

So avid haters of the dbl can be assumed to have voted multiple times in an effort to get their own way, as long as they’re avid enough or the person saying it is paranoid enough? =P

No I was told you could vote more than once , so I did.. and then didn’t bother to care anymore to tell anyone there is even a poll at this point. If you bothered to read my last threads in here, I was advocating to not get rid of it entirely BTW. I asked for them to send it to beta and bring it out when the community voted that it was ready instead of expecting players to play on a map that will not even allow all classes to use their skills in numerous areas in a PvP game mode.

There is nothing I can do to convince players to come back/stay anymore because Anet chooses to run players off instead of try to increase them with terrible decisions that continually make players leave .. over and over and over..

I was told it isn’t worth my time to try and .. I believe them.

I’m not going to do homework on who you are or what “side” you come down on before I make a joke, sorry hehe.

I had written out a stupidly long paragraph on the shortcomings of your suggested methodology as I viewed them, but I decided I didn’t have the energy to commit to getting into it and should just keep it light hearted.

You can vote once per account.

You can change your vote, but entering the same vote again does nothing but show the current numbers. (I’m not much of a fan of this system, as it’s causing the “don’t count my vote” option to be the only thing that increases over the week.)

Ben K.6238:

You can vote once per account.

You can change your vote, but entering the same vote again does nothing but show the current numbers. (I’m not much of a fan of this system, as it’s causing the “don’t count my vote” option to be the only thing that increases over the week.)

So if you have 20 accounts you can vote 20 times. MANY wvw players have multiple accounts.. Not having it be email invite only to WvW players over a certain rank, there is no way to gauge how many actual WvW players voted.
The primary problem when they made the $10 accounts as to why they did not gain as many " new players" as they had intended was much of those accounts were just WvW players making accounts for all servers.. The thing with Emailing the polls is they would only be emailing them to players who at least had time to wvw level all those accounts, and not just let every dummy account sitting there get as much say as every actual player. I know players who have 4 accounts just on one server in addition to having them on every other server both EU and NA. When you want an accurate head count though that isn’t going to be how you get it.

lil devils x.6071:

So if you have 20 accounts you can vote 20 times. MANY wvw players have multiple accounts.. Not having it be email invite only to WvW players over a certain rank, therer

Yes the poll is not exactly scientific however this is a good reason for having the 75% that way at least they mitigate against vote stacking somewhat. And thye have done what they can to ensure WvW players vote for it by sending emails when you rank up.

shrek.1046:

lil devils x.6071:

So if you have 20 accounts you can vote 20 times. MANY wvw players have multiple accounts.. Not having it be email invite only to WvW players over a certain rank, therer

Yes the poll is not exactly scientific however this is a good reason for having the 75% that way at least they mitigate against vote stacking somewhat. And thye have done what they can to ensure WvW players vote for it by sending emails when you rank up.

How did that do anything to prevent vote stacking? I voted twice, I could go vote more if I wanted to but why bother? How many times did you vote? In game message=\= email. The surveys they used to create this game and the ones they sent out after HoT were via your actual Email, this should be done the same considering many people are traveling due to it being summer vacation and not even playing the game atm. I have’t received anything in game or outside of it about the poll FYI.

What is going to wind up happening is most people don’t vote, they are just going to show up one day and the changes will be implemented and they will leave.

lil devils x.6071:

shrek.1046:

lil devils x.6071:

So if you have 20 accounts you can vote 20 times. MANY wvw players have multiple accounts.. Not having it be email invite only to WvW players over a certain rank, therer

Yes the poll is not exactly scientific however this is a good reason for having the 75% that way at least they mitigate against vote stacking somewhat. And thye have done what they can to ensure WvW players vote for it by sending emails when you rank up.

How did that do anything to prevent vote stacking? I voted twice, I could go vote more if I wanted to but why bother? How many times did you vote? In game message=\= email. The surveys they used to create this game and the ones they sent out after HoT were via your actual Email, this should be done the same considering many people are traveling due to it being summer vacation and not even playing the game atm. I have’t received anything in game or outside of it about the poll FYI.

What is going to wind up happening is most people don’t vote, they are just going to show up one day and the changes will be implemented and they will leave.

I didn’t say it prevented vote stacking it mitigates against the effect of it somewhat.

As for mails I got an in game mail on previous polls can;t remember about this one.

The worst part about this is on one side you have Anet saying " if you don’t keep our crummy map we will not make you any more maps" on the other you have people saying" if you don’t get your crummy map out of here and bring us a good map we are not going to play your game anymore." The reason I don’t feel this poll matters is it is a no win situation.

If you vote to get rid of the DBL, you get no new maps and they still aren’t taking the DBL back to beta to fix it right. No new maps = People still leave the game.

If you vote to keep the DBL, you get stuck with a map that many consider unplayable at all and who knows if the new map they make will be any better. It isn’t like they have given anyone reason to believe it would be better yet. So then the game mode is considered by many to be unplayable anyhow and that still means = People still leave the game.

If the option to " Take DBL to beta until the players vote that it is playable" ( as my previous thread stated) that would have been a solution that kept all players in the game and making no one leave. But actually trying to keep players from leaving doesn’t seem to be the point here considering how it was done. Oh well too late now, what is done is done and CU is supposed to be released sometime soon I guess.

About wote stacking… and emails in-game vs actual emails.

There is quite literally no meaningful difference… an account has to have an email associated with it, that afaik has to be unique and free emails are trivial to create. The only difference between this and an email invite poll is that the latter you would have to have pre-existing accounts to vote multiple times for whereas for this one you do not.

The best defense against actual meaningful vote stacking these polls have is the presumed number of votes… ie. even if one person bothers to create dummy accounts to vote say 20 times that is quite likely not going to change the result in a drastic way unless the community is already in a 49/51 situation or in this case 74/26 (which we are not in).

The poll is meaningful, although not exactly scientific… if what some people ellude here, ie. that majority of the “no” votes is from casual PvE players (which very well might be true) then I doubt these casual players have enough interest in WvW to have the incentive to have multiple accounts for it let alone create ones to stack votes in their favour. If there is vote stacking happening, then it is likely to happen on the loosing side assuming the assertions made in this topic about the winning side is true.

Crise.9401:

About wote stacking… and emails in-game vs actual emails.

There is quite literally no meaningful difference… an account has to have an email associated with it, that afaik has to be unique and free emails are trivial to create. The only difference between this and an email invite poll is that the latter you would have to have pre-existing accounts to vote multiple times for whereas for this one you do not.

The best defense against actual meaningful vote stacking these polls have is the presumed number of votes… ie. even if one person bothers to create dummy accounts to vote say 20 times that is quite likely not going to change the result in a drastic way unless the community is already in a 49/51 situation or in this case 74/26 (which we are not in).

The poll is meaningful, although not exactly scientific… if what some people ellude here, ie. that majority of the “no” votes is from casual PvE players (which very well might be true) then I doubt these casual players have enough interest in WvW to have the incentive to have multiple accounts for it let alone create ones to stack votes in their favour. If there is vote stacking happening, then it is likely to happen on the loosing side assuming the assertions made in this topic about the winning side is true.

There is a HUGE difference when you only send out emails Only to WvW players Over a certain WvW rank than to allow anyone to vote as many times as they have accounts. Yes, players have made accounts on all servers but no way had time to level all those accounts in WvW. If the emails are only sent to WvW players over a certain rank, you are only getting WvW player input. In addition, actual emails vs in game emails, if a player isn’t playing the game right now for whatever reason this week, they would still be notified. For example, at the Hospital here GW2 was blocked so there was no way to access the game to find that out and this week there are actually many people travelling currently on vacation with their families.

They are not creating the accounts to vote, they already created the accounts when they went on sale for $10 way back when. WvW players made a mad dash to make accounts on all the servers they wanted to play on during that time. Most of those accounts just sit there a while. Sure they have been able to level a few of them in WvW, but not all they bought By limiting to only players over a certain rank you block much of those from the process. Why would the losing side stack votes when most gave up already when Anet said they would not make new maps.. You see, the " losing side" only wanted Alpine back temporarily so they had somewhere to wait while they made a good map instead. Anet made that clear it is not happening, so those players are not going to vote in the poll.Why bother? They are just going to leave instead.

We already had to beg and plead for players to come back as it was, this was the last chance for ANet to make it right, so oh well, not worth the effort if they don’t want to keep them playing. Part of the problem was there as a misunderstanding I think, players never wanted to not have new maps, they just didn’t want to have bad maps.

I don’t know anyone who asked for Alpine back that didn’t want new maps, they just didn’t want that map. They only wanted Alpine back to have something that was playable they could play on while they waited for that to happen. Anet didn’t seem to " get" that apparently.

In addition, there were solutions offered that would not have run anyone off from the game, but they chose to ignore that and push this instead. If they are only going to choose things that get rid of players, why bother? Changing AC damage ran players off, adding more grind to play WvW ran people off, combat changes ran players off, taking away everything Guilds worked for ( HOT guild upgrade changes, aka: Small guild nuke) ran players off, imbalanced match ups ran players off, locking servers ran players off, Force players to keep bad map instead of make a good one ran players off.. It is just one in the series of things that in the end when you look around and ask where everyone went, you know why.

They don’t need to say " oh that new game came out so everyone is playing that…"

Truth is people are just desperately looking for ANYTHING else to play because of the way Anet chose to handle WvW. It isn’t that a new game stole players it was this game ran them off in droves due to decisions being made.

lil devils x.6071:

A proper poll would have been one that was email invite only to WvW players past and present over a certain rank. Not a poll non WvW players and people who have 20 accounts can vote as many times as they like. I pointed that out in the first poll they chunked on forums like this, we have not seen a proper poll as of yet. IF you have 20 accounts, you can vote 20 times.

I mean if someone really wants to win all they have to do is go to Busy PvE centers and start offering gold for people to prove they voted the way they wanted them to. It isn’t like PvE players care what happens in WvW. But that would have to mean people still care enough to do that. LOL

lil devils x.6071:

Most people I know are not even voting.. and I didn’t bother telling them there was a poll at this point when I realized how many times I could vote.. There are more than you realize. The thing is people are tired. If you have to tell developers that the purpose of updates is to increase game population, increase player satisfaction, and increase game longevity and they still choose to run off their existing population with the unprofessional way they conducted these polls, ( They didn’t even have to have an option to remove it entirely, they could have just agreed to take it back to beta until players vote on when it is ready as was suggested as a compromise to make sure neither side leaves the game.), taking upgrades away from guilds that some guilds never were able to obtain again, breaking up friends, families, and guilds by server merging/ locking, adding a ton of lame PVE gimmicky crap to WvW that makes more players leave the game than it brings in, it is not worth wasting my time on.

Basically what Anet is doing now is sloppy and ridiculously too little too late, and still in the wrong direction.

EDIT: I did not ask or tell a single person on this game that there was even a poll this time. Not going to bother.

So basically

The people who disagree with you are going to massive efforts to buy votes, and use extra accounts to make extra votes to make themselves seem bigger

And the people who agree with you are tired and apathetic and couldn’t be bothered expending the effort to vote in the poll.

…Huh?

Sarrs.4831:

So basically

The people who disagree with you are going to massive efforts to buy votes, and use extra accounts to make extra votes to make themselves seem bigger

And the people who agree with you are tired and apathetic and couldn’t be bothered expending the effort to vote in the poll.

…Huh?

For more “…Huh?” effect, just wonder whether this whole topic and conversation would happen should the results be inverted.

ThomasC.1056:

Sarrs.4831:

So basically

The people who disagree with you are going to massive efforts to buy votes, and use extra accounts to make extra votes to make themselves seem bigger

And the people who agree with you are tired and apathetic and couldn’t be bothered expending the effort to vote in the poll.

…Huh?

For more “…Huh?” effect, just wonder whether this whole topic and conversation would happen should the results be inverted.

that is possible of course, but I believe the root of the discussion is based on the fact the “delete dbl crowd” is no where near the # of people some thought. some of them are now looking for excuses / reasons for the vote instead of admitting there just wasn’t that overwhelming majority as they thought…

lil devils x.6071:

There is a HUGE difference when you only send out emails Only to WvW players Over a certain WvW rank than to allow anyone to vote as many times as they have accounts.

This is just being elitist.

lil devils x.6071:

There is nothing I can do to convince players to come back/stay anymore because Anet chooses to run players off instead of try to increase them with terrible decisions that continually make players leave .. over and over and over..

I was told it isn’t worth my time to try and .. I believe them.

If that is truly the case, then why do you continue to post here on the very subject “that isn’t worth your time”?

Teon.5168:

lil devils x.6071:

There is nothing I can do to convince players to come back/stay anymore because Anet chooses to run players off instead of try to increase them with terrible decisions that continually make players leave .. over and over and over..

I was told it isn’t worth my time to try and .. I believe them.

If that is truly the case, then why do you continue to post here on the very subject “that isn’t worth your time”?

I am replying to being quoted. It takes much less effort to reply than it does to go on line chat/FB/Skype/ TS/ Vent and bother telling people there is a poll.

shrek.1046:

lil devils x.6071:

There is a HUGE difference when you only send out emails Only to WvW players Over a certain WvW rank than to allow anyone to vote as many times as they have accounts.

This is just being elitist.

No, having players vote as many times as they have accounts is being elitist. Only those who have more accounts get more say than those who do not.

Liston.9708:

ThomasC.1056:

Sarrs.4831:

So basically

The people who disagree with you are going to massive efforts to buy votes, and use extra accounts to make extra votes to make themselves seem bigger

And the people who agree with you are tired and apathetic and couldn’t be bothered expending the effort to vote in the poll.

…Huh?

For more “…Huh?” effect, just wonder whether this whole topic and conversation would happen should the results be inverted.

that is possible of course, but I believe the root of the discussion is based on the fact the “delete dbl crowd” is no where near the # of people some thought. some of them are now looking for excuses / reasons for the vote instead of admitting there just wasn’t that overwhelming majority as they thought…

UGH, you are not even " getting it" the " crowd" is the same. The problem is the “delete the DBL crowd” wanted new WvW maps instead of the DBL. That option isn’t being given. EVERY SINGLE PERSON I KNOW THAT WANTED ABL WANTED NEW MAPS, JUST DIDN’T WANT DBL That number remains the same, they are not being given that choice at all.

Instead they have Anet saying " if you don’t keep our crummy map we will not make you any more maps" on the other you have people saying" if you don’t get your crummy map out of here and bring us a good map we are not going to play your game anymore." The reason I don’t feel this poll matters is it is a no win situation.

If you vote to get rid of the DBL, you get no new maps and they still aren’t taking the DBL back to beta to fix it right. No new maps = People still leave the game.

If you vote to keep the DBL, you get stuck with a map that many consider unplayable at all and who knows if the new map they make will be any better. It isn’t like they have given anyone reason to believe it would be better yet. So then the game mode is considered by many to be unplayable anyhow and that still means = People still leave the game.

If the option to " Take DBL to beta until the players vote that it is ready for live game" ( as my previous thread stated) that would have been a solution that kept all players in the game and making no one leave. It is a lose/ lose situation. The amount of people haven’t changed at all, the issue is Anet decided to take away the one thing they wanted as an option. Those asking for Alpine back were asking for it just to wait on temporarily while they made a new WvW map, they were told that wasn’t happening at all.

lil devils x.6071:

shrek.1046:

lil devils x.6071:

There is a HUGE difference when you only send out emails Only to WvW players Over a certain WvW rank than to allow anyone to vote as many times as they have accounts.

This is just being elitist.

No, having players vote as many times as they have accounts is being elitist. Only those who have more accounts get more say than those who do not.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

lil devils x.6071:

UGH, you are not even " getting it"…..

Judging just from the content of your posts, might I suggest that you take a look in the mirror to find out who is ‘not getting it’.

Teon.5168:

lil devils x.6071:

shrek.1046:

lil devils x.6071:

There is a HUGE difference when you only send out emails Only to WvW players Over a certain WvW rank than to allow anyone to vote as many times as they have accounts.

This is just being elitist.

No, having players vote as many times as they have accounts is being elitist. Only those who have more accounts get more say than those who do not.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

It makes perfect sense. If you are elite enough to have 20 accounts, you get 20 votes. If you are not, you do not.

As has been posted by others in these forums before……‘there is no reasoning with you on this subject’…..

I will put it as simply as I can……

You lost. Dbls is coming back. Learn to deal with it.

And, as hard as it is to imagine for you……it is JUST a game.

Teon.5168:

As has been posted by others in these forums before……‘there is no reasoning with you on this subject’…..

I will put it as simply as I can……

You lost. Dbls is coming back. Learn to deal with it.

And, as hard as it is to imagine for you……it is JUST a game.

THAT is what I don’t think you understand, you see the way players will deal with is they will not play this game anymore.. at all. Keeping in mind that it is just a game is exactly it, they just won’t be playing this game anymore. The goal was to take DBL back to beta and let them fix it from the beginning. The very first time it was brought up, that was the suggestion. They didn’t " get" it so now the game will lose the players who won’t play with it in the game, then they will lose the players who want to play with those players then they will lose the players that want to play with them.We actually had to beg people to come back to the game already, that isn’t going to happen the next time.

THAT was all I was trying to stop. I have offered several options to not make players leave at all and have the DBL in the live game when it is made playable for all classes. If anyone thinks " winning" means the game massively loses population, I would hate to see what losing means. This is just a no win situation. It isn’t a “win” for anyone if players leave over it.

" Getting" it means trying to offer a solution that increases game population, increases player satisfaction and increases game longevity. These options do none of the above.

I " get " it perfectly clear, they are going to run off much of the population from the game mode and then try to blame it on something else in the end.. When it happens don’t ask why, you know why.. People will only flock to other games due to the decisions made here. You should understand that it is only a game, and developers are supposed to make their game better than other games so that people want to play it more than they want to play other games. Doing things like this does not accomplish that at all.

Coulda shoulda woulda been the best Large scale PvP game on the market.. Oh well like I said CU is around the corner..