WvW > PvP

WvW > PvP

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Posted by: JTGuevara.9018

JTGuevara.9018

Yeah, I said it. I always naturally gravitated to WvW more than PvP. Sometimes I literally cannot stop playing it. I just get caught up in the small-scale fights, zergs, roaming, ppt, guildies, sticking with tags. Nothing but fun. Nothing but fights. Nothing but fun fights!

However, PvP is the complete opposite. Conquest has been shoved down our throats for 5 years. There’s no 2v2, 3v3 TDM. There are no separate queues for solo/5v5. Ranked is an abomination. E-sports was an embarassment, I’m GLAD it’s dead. The PvP community is in a state of denial about their game mode. They don’t want to make big changes to make it more accessible for people, except to throw them rewards. Ascended gear, etc. Automated tournaments are nice for established 5v5 teams, I guess, but this community still thinks that PvP can be “competitive”. All these new teams were supposed to develop a “scene”. But…nothing. Whatever happened to making PvP fun? A “competitive” scene doesn’t happen when you force it, it happens when people find a game fun to play. If this makes me sound like a “casual”, then so be it.

What I see is that WvW is in better shape than in the past and miles ahead of PvP in terms of fun. Much better than the early post-HoT days.

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Posted by: Lahmia.2193

Lahmia.2193

The great thing about WvW is that it is so varied in what you can do.

Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death.

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Posted by: Bigpapasmurf.5623

Bigpapasmurf.5623

The great thing about WvW is that it is so varied in what you can do.

BUILD DIVERSITY YAY

- Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/MC_Celestia
- I am currently a main thief roamer for SF in WvW. LOVE ME!
- {SOAP} Solo/Havoc roamer, lover of good fights

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Posted by: ugrakarma.9416

ugrakarma.9416

It’s just a matter of what you get sick of. I was farming WvW right from the update and now I got a little bored, I gave some time and I went back to Pvp.

Pvp = for those who like micro fights.

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Posted by: Chinchilla.1785

Chinchilla.1785

?

WvW is just massive pvp. It’s just as unwatchable as spvp is in regards to E-sports (GvG or otherwise). If not even more so due to the shear amount of spam or bland running simulator from objective to objective. Nothing in this game feels like it had an audience actually observing in mind. The combat for the player is definitely top notch at least.


And no, a “spectator” camera isn’t what makes a game enjoyable to watch. It’s the understanding of the game mode by that captive audience which greatly helps…

RISE guild best guild super RPers trash blob guild [RISE] masters of the die on inc technique.

Trinity Of Our EU Lords [Kazo] Zudo Jason Betta

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

I always preffered WvW and always will , that unless the PvP crowd gets their way and starts having items removed to lessen build diversity in pursuit of this thing called “balance”.

WvW is much more diverse. Its mechanics do not force one set of tasks on a given profession. It flows and changes from hour to hour so you are not always doing the same thing. Due to the plethora of gear allowed and the variety of maps (yes I think DBL a GOOD thing) , I can pull in multiple iterations of the same professions and have totally different gameplay on each.

(edited by babazhook.6805)

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Posted by: Solstace.2514

Solstace.2514

I think as a game mode it offers more exciting scenarios and diversity than pvp. But in terms of actual combat, it’s incredibly unbalanced and flawed.

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Posted by: Spartacus.3192

Spartacus.3192

Best thing about WvW is that it doesn’t treat you like a kid with amoeba level IQ forcing you to use restricted stats via their amulet system.

build diversity through armor mixing and more varied runes/armor/weapon stats plus food and utility buffs.

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

When you have an open pvp vs a “closed” pvp the open pvp tends to be more fun due to all the added chose you can make. The thing is your more likely to have inbalncse with the open pvp so you need to have thicker skin for losing and being trolled by builds to enjoy open pvp (wvw for gw2).

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

Even so build diversity could be better

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: Lahmia.2193

Lahmia.2193

The great thing about WvW is that it is so varied in what you can do.

BUILD DIVERSITY YAY

Nah I mean you can go around roaming camps/sentries, roaming for fights, small scale tower flipping, havoc, full scale zerging etc. Pvp is just a 5v5 battle.

Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death.

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Posted by: Dane.9480

Dane.9480

Dunno … difrent ways of playing I’ll say.
In WvW I love my Necro (Reaper) in pvp I love my Thief (Daredevil)
That said in WvW I’ll follow tag or flip camps and unscouted towers on my reaper
I could flip camps and towers on my Thief too … but no way I’ll be at any help on tag with it :p

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Posted by: JTGuevara.9018

JTGuevara.9018

People knock the build diversity here, but it’s much better than PvP. In PvP, you are really limited in what you can do due to the nature of Conquest. Your builds, first of all, must have elite specs. Otherwise, your loss is assured. Second, your builds revolve around capture points: whether it’s decap, bunker, mid fights. Everything you do is in relation to points.

WvWs problem is as in PvP, elite specs and conditions. Also, there are some broken stats, dire/trailblazer. Even so, WvW allows you to run what you want, provided it helps you and your small group or zerg to survive and not be a walking loot bag.

I used to be an alarmist about WvW, but I’m enjoying it more and more each day.

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Posted by: Phineas Poe.3018

Phineas Poe.3018

?

WvW is just massive pvp. It’s just as unwatchable as spvp is in regards to E-sports (GvG or otherwise). If not even more so due to the shear amount of spam or bland running simulator from objective to objective. Nothing in this game feels like it had an audience actually observing in mind. The combat for the player is definitely top notch at least.

Black Desert Online is just as bland with players farm mobs in circles for hours, with combat just as unintuitive and flashy. So why does it have 5,000 viewers and Guild Wars 2 has 500 on Twitch?

I don’t think it has anything to do with GW2 being a “running simulator” or having “spammy” combat; I think it’s purely due to the fact that Guild Wars 2 is five years old and has a very bad public perception following Heart of Thorns.

[EG] Ethereal Guardians

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Posted by: Chinchilla.1785

Chinchilla.1785

?

WvW is just massive pvp. It’s just as unwatchable as spvp is in regards to E-sports (GvG or otherwise). If not even more so due to the shear amount of spam or bland running simulator from objective to objective. Nothing in this game feels like it had an audience actually observing in mind. The combat for the player is definitely top notch at least.

Black Desert Online is just as bland with players farm mobs in circles for hours, with combat just as unintuitive and flashy. So why does it have 5,000 viewers and Guild Wars 2 has 500 on Twitch?

I don’t think it has anything to do with GW2 being a “running simulator” or having “spammy” combat; I think it’s purely due to the fact that Guild Wars 2 is five years old and has a very bad public perception following Heart of Thorns.

Booty Duty Online for a reason. ~_^ Yes, being recent (2016 official release or w.e.) does help.

Is 5000 views a lot for twitch? I am curious.

RISE guild best guild super RPers trash blob guild [RISE] masters of the die on inc technique.

Trinity Of Our EU Lords [Kazo] Zudo Jason Betta

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Posted by: Phineas Poe.3018

Phineas Poe.3018

?

WvW is just massive pvp. It’s just as unwatchable as spvp is in regards to E-sports (GvG or otherwise). If not even more so due to the shear amount of spam or bland running simulator from objective to objective. Nothing in this game feels like it had an audience actually observing in mind. The combat for the player is definitely top notch at least.

Black Desert Online is just as bland with players farm mobs in circles for hours, with combat just as unintuitive and flashy. So why does it have 5,000 viewers and Guild Wars 2 has 500 on Twitch?

I don’t think it has anything to do with GW2 being a “running simulator” or having “spammy” combat; I think it’s purely due to the fact that Guild Wars 2 is five years old and has a very bad public perception following Heart of Thorns.

Booty Duty Online for a reason. ~_^ Yes, being recent (2016 official release or w.e.) does help.

Is 5000 views a lot for twitch? I am curious.

Not really, but that’s neither here nor there.

I was just more so addressing the point that there are games that are just as guilty of what you describe (in some capacity much worse) that manage to obtain larger viewership.

It’s not that GW2 is unwatchable (though I think Conquest in particular struggles to be entertaining to watch even as someone that’s played 4K+ matches of it) so much as that it’s not really a part of the conversation anymore. MMOs in general just aren’t really all that popular these days. World of Warcraft gets by just on the basis of having millions of subscribers, but after that it drops off a cliff. Final Fantasy XIV had a new expansion drop a couple weeks ago; it’s already down to under 3,000 viewers right now.

[EG] Ethereal Guardians

(edited by Phineas Poe.3018)

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Posted by: Chinchilla.1785

Chinchilla.1785

?

WvW is just massive pvp. It’s just as unwatchable as spvp is in regards to E-sports (GvG or otherwise). If not even more so due to the shear amount of spam or bland running simulator from objective to objective. Nothing in this game feels like it had an audience actually observing in mind. The combat for the player is definitely top notch at least.

Black Desert Online is just as bland with players farm mobs in circles for hours, with combat just as unintuitive and flashy. So why does it have 5,000 viewers and Guild Wars 2 has 500 on Twitch?

I don’t think it has anything to do with GW2 being a “running simulator” or having “spammy” combat; I think it’s purely due to the fact that Guild Wars 2 is five years old and has a very bad public perception following Heart of Thorns.

Booty Duty Online for a reason. ~_^ Yes, being recent (2016 official release or w.e.) does help.

Is 5000 views a lot for twitch? I am curious.

Not really, but that’s neither here nor there.

I was just more so addressing the point that there are games that are just as guilty of what you describe (in some capacity much worse) that manage to obtain larger viewership.

It’s not that GW2 is unwatchable (though I think Conquest in particular struggles to be entertaining to watch even as someone that’s played 4K+ matches of it) so much as that it’s not really a part of the conversation anymore. MMOs in general just aren’t really all that popular these days. World of Warcraft gets by just on the basis of having millions of subscribers, but after that it drops off a cliff. Final Fantasy XIV had a new expansion drop a couple weeks ago; it’s already down to under 3,000 viewers right now.

Then I’m confused. Your example demonstrated what I described. I need to be clear here, this isn’t just an issue with Guild Wars 2. It is true of other games, such as MMOs, as you stated. League of Legends or real Football (American and Everyone else) has a certain layout that is easily digestible for their larger audiences…like two opposing goals as a big feature. WvW doesn’t always have a clear view for those watching w.e. stream. So I would never expect it to be popular on twitch like say w.e. MOBA.

This isn’t the only factor obviously, but it’s a major one game designers consider nowadays. Staleness, as you observed, is one variable discussed in this video…

RISE guild best guild super RPers trash blob guild [RISE] masters of the die on inc technique.

Trinity Of Our EU Lords [Kazo] Zudo Jason Betta

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Posted by: PierPiero.9142

PierPiero.9142

There is a huge different u forgot. PVP is balanced. Every people has access to the same stats … no food , no ascended .. nothing. It is a balance fight 5 vs 5 and you start with the same tools as your opponents … wvw is a mess where there are a lot of unbalanced builds. Someone who buy this game now, after the starting matches of pvp ( rank 20 , if i remember right ) can then go to ranked and tournament and have the same instruments of other people …. for wvw it is not the same … there are power warrior for example in wvw really strong… not unkillable but really hard to take down … in spvp it is completely another story … if u make great damage you also eat great damage …

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Posted by: PierPiero.9142

PierPiero.9142

People knock the build diversity here, but it’s much better than PvP. In PvP, you are really limited in what you can do due to the nature of Conquest. Your builds, first of all, must have elite specs. Otherwise, your loss is assured. Second, your builds revolve around capture points: whether it’s decap, bunker, mid fights. Everything you do is in relation to points.

WvWs problem is as in PvP, elite specs and conditions. Also, there are some broken stats, dire/trailblazer. Even so, WvW allows you to run what you want, provided it helps you and your small group or zerg to survive and not be a walking loot bag.

I used to be an alarmist about WvW, but I’m enjoying it more and more each day.

If you delete dire/trabalizer you have also to eliminate power stat like soldier or settler or cleric ( as it has been done in spvp ) . There are power build much more unbalanced than trabalizer or dire. There are warriors or guardians who hit like trucks and have a lot of active defense ,regen and toughness. I agree with you that there are balanced problem , but it can not be only on trabalizer/dire becouse “i don’t play it” .. if you want to balance you have to balance all the stats … not only what you don’t like

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

Some people are still blindfolded…. about how stupid and simple gw2 is…. pvp is far from balanced…. far from it, and in WvW some builds are way much stronger than its counterparts due more stats avaliable.

Still… gw2 pvp is a joke since classes are deisgned for pve and how devs thinks class should feel to play on pve only….

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: Lahmia.2193

Lahmia.2193

Some people are still blindfolded…. about how stupid and simple gw2 is…. pvp is far from balanced…. far from it, and in WvW some builds are way much stronger than its counterparts due more stats avaliable.

Still… gw2 pvp is a joke since classes are deisgned for pve and how devs thinks class should feel to play on pve only….

gr8 b8 m8 8/8

cya felicia, send us your stuff.

Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death.

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Posted by: JTGuevara.9018

JTGuevara.9018

People knock the build diversity here, but it’s much better than PvP. In PvP, you are really limited in what you can do due to the nature of Conquest. Your builds, first of all, must have elite specs. Otherwise, your loss is assured. Second, your builds revolve around capture points: whether it’s decap, bunker, mid fights. Everything you do is in relation to points.

WvWs problem is as in PvP, elite specs and conditions. Also, there are some broken stats, dire/trailblazer. Even so, WvW allows you to run what you want, provided it helps you and your small group or zerg to survive and not be a walking loot bag.

I used to be an alarmist about WvW, but I’m enjoying it more and more each day.

If you delete dire/trabalizer you have also to eliminate power stat like soldier or settler or cleric ( as it has been done in spvp ) . There are power build much more unbalanced than trabalizer or dire. There are warriors or guardians who hit like trucks and have a lot of active defense ,regen and toughness. I agree with you that there are balanced problem , but it can not be only on trabalizer/dire becouse “i don’t play it” .. if you want to balance you have to balance all the stats … not only what you don’t like

The problem is not amulets, its elite specs. Powercreep is what ruins WvW. Also, it was worse back then at post-HoT release. Elite specs were even more absurd. Honestly, I think they’re superior by design. No matter how much you nerf elites, they will still be better than core due to class mechanics. They need to be completely reworked.

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Posted by: SpellOfIniquity.1780

SpellOfIniquity.1780

I live in WvW because I like freedom in my video games. I’m very picky with what I play because anything that tries to hold my hand or prevent me from exploring or experimenting with stats, etc., I automatically dislike.

I enjoy losing myself in adventure and combat, just wandering the land at my leisure and learning effective strategies for different encounters as I go.

WvW lets me go where the wind blows while also playing what ever I like and generally not feeling discouraged about it.

I may get frustrated with roaming, with lag, with certain builds or people, but WvW is the reason I play GW2. It gives me the freedom to do what ever feels most entertaining to me at any specific moment without ever feeling punished for it (unless I cared about loot, which I don’t).

Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma

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Posted by: Spurnshadow.3678

Spurnshadow.3678

There is a huge different u forgot. PVP is balanced. Every people has access to the same stats … no food , no ascended .. nothing. It is a balance fight 5 vs 5 and you start with the same tools as your opponents … wvw is a mess where there are a lot of unbalanced builds. Someone who buy this game now, after the starting matches of pvp ( rank 20 , if i remember right ) can then go to ranked and tournament and have the same instruments of other people …. for wvw it is not the same … there are power warrior for example in wvw really strong… not unkillable but really hard to take down … in spvp it is completely another story … if u make great damage you also eat great damage …

Sorry, gotta call BS on this. Balance is an illusion. A purely balanced game would have everyone playing the same class with the same stats. Once you start introducing different stats and builds, then balance goes out the window. The best they can do is try to keep any OP builds from existing.

The other reason balance is BS is because it doesn’t prevent stupid from occurring. Someone could be running bad traits, bad weapons, bad whatever. So, it’s impossible to balance against that.

And there are still OP builds that exist to this day. For example, I ran to cap a point. No one there, ran into condi thief traps, and died in 2 seconds. Burn guards are also op with their initial hit of @20 stacks of burning. Stunlock warriors are also pretty bad. PvP is not balanced and never will be unless everyone plays the same class/stats/traits.

Blackgate Native. It takes tremendous strength and skill to pull a lever.

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Posted by: mulzi.8273

mulzi.8273

man difference between PvP and WvW is that you can get ‘carried’ in WvW very very easily. In PvP, if you don’t pull your weight, all folks in the match know it. In WvW you can hide in the zerg, spam AoEs and condis, leech heals/buffs from other people and collect your bags. If your feeling particularly ‘lazy’ one day, you can do the ‘1’ routine in WvW and still be productive, whereas if you only use ‘1’ in pvp you would be complettely useless.

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Posted by: Artaz.3819

Artaz.3819

PvP has FAR MORE outbalanced builds than WvW…PvP forums highlights them too and ANet ignores for months/balance updates are few and far between. Any slight build/class advantage for a PvP team has huge impacts on the outcome of a win. If a team has two or more of the unbalanced classes in a ranked match, it is even worse.

Also, since the PvP match time is limited and nearly everyone plays PvP with random others, there is no real regroup, change/adapt, communicate and learn. It’s mostly a snowball game where winners keep winning by larger and larger numbers because the time of a match is very limited.

WvW is unbalanced because of one primary thing. It’s a number of players online and playing on maps (coverage). There are many ways to win in WvW. PPT winning happens in streaks (typically a few hours at a time) for every given server. But winning specific battles (zerg v zerg or on a roaming scale) happens all the time for all sides.

That’s why WvW continues on relatively consistently with player base and PvP has ebbs and flows of gains and losses.

(edited by Artaz.3819)