Guild Wars 2

Hello, I’m back on gw2 from a long break and unfortunately found out that my ranger is no longer wvw effective at all…
I mean they moved the only thing that made rangers shine like no other, and that is the zephyr speed on pet swap.. It was at 5 points in to BM now to get it u must go BM all the way, plus now it seems like running anything that is not a BM build just doesn’t work.
I mean I tried dual bows glass cannon, LB/GS with various builds and nothing seems to work as well at it did back then cuz those 2 seconds of quickness are gone.
So wvw is not ranger friendly as it used to be, so I’m askin u ppl if there “ANY PROPERLY WORKING” build for a ranger to run in wvw without being killed by every other player out there?
I really could use some advice cuz I’ve tried a kitten load of builds and still didn’t find it…

GreatSword – Sword/Dagger. Evade your way through zerg clashes and leap out of unfavorable combats.

I guess it is funny that a ranged build isn’t very good on a ranger. Honestly, you would get a better response in the class specific forums.

The only problem I see with your statement. Is that it implies that rangers were ever effective in WvW.

Ofc they were!!! 6 seconds of quickness burst that’s like 2 downed enemies for sure!!
I was very fond of my ranger back when I could burst down a tanky guardian with ease.
Now however I can barely 1v1 anything not even speaking about bunker builds to whom I barely scratch the 50%HP mark…

The ranger doesn’t have a power option anymore. I’m not sure they ever really did as even with zephyr + rapid fire, you still did crap damage. If you want to play the Ranger class you really need to just go 30 BM for empathic bond, 30 in Nature for spirits or 30 in marks for signets, and 10 wherever else you want and play as a bunker with high condition, healing power, and toughness (settler’s or apothecary).

ANet doesn’t seem to want the ranger class to amount to anything in this game. They’ve left pets in a miserable state, they have no power options at all, axe and shortbow are nearly identical weapons, longbow sucks, sword leap chaining is not user friendly, you need 30 points in a tree to make any use of about half the skills available, etc etc.

Just reroll. Warrior and Guardian tend to be the 2 classes ANet focuses heavily on and condition Warriors with longbows are 10x the Ranger the Ranger class will ever be (or ever was). Short of that, start farming Karkas…

Sad that the only build rangers can run now is bunker bm...
Anet should really remake the rangers from scrap to get somewhere even near to balance with other classes.. I mean Srsly a ranger akittens best does 1500 yards which seems nice at first but the speed that a GS warrior, a sword mesmer or a DD ele closes that gap is twice as fast then u can react to it and get more distance.. So ur only choice is not even to to try and stay away which in my opinion isn’t what a ranger has to do..

Rangers were never really WvW effective in general. There are some Bunker BM builds that can be a handful in small fights and some builds can be bag collecting machines but aside from Healing Spring they really don’t and never really had a role in WvW.

I mained a Ranger for my first 400 or so hours of WvW and I enjoy the class which was enough for me but I always knew the class lacked a solid role and was never a power class.

IMO the overall debuff of quickening while a good change overall hit the “Power Ranger” hard.

My new World vs World build i’m running

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/My-New-Ranger-Dazer-Hybrid-Build-2-0/first#post2657256

I totally give up on my Ranger in WvW when they nerfed shortbow range from 1200 to 900…

I just use my 80th level Ranger for messing around in open world PvE and sPvP.

They are just subpar at everything else in the game…

Fomby.4295:

The only problem I see with your statement. Is that it implies that rangers were ever effective in WvW.

As a Ranger I’m hurt…
As a WvW’er… LOL

(Notice how they’re separate. I’d hate to confuse someone with that)

Atherakhia.4086:

The ranger doesn’t have a power option anymore. I’m not sure they ever really did as even with zephyr + rapid fire, you still did crap damage. If you want to play the Ranger class you really need to just go 30 Wilderness for empathic bond, 30 in Nature for spirits or 30 in marks for signets, and 10 wherever else you want and play as a bunker with high condition, healing power, and toughness (settler’s or apothecary).

ANet doesn’t seem to want the ranger class to amount to anything in this game. They’ve left pets in a miserable state, they have no power options at all, axe and shortbow are nearly identical weapons, longbow sucks, sword leap chaining is not user friendly, you need 30 points in a tree to make any use of about half the skills available, etc etc.

Just reroll. Warrior and Guardian tend to be the 2 classes ANet focuses heavily on and condition Warriors with longbows are 10x the Ranger the Ranger class will ever be (or ever was). Short of that, start farming Karkas…

First,
Fixed*

Second,
The blatant and unabridged truth of this post hurts my Ranger soul…

Rangers have plenty of builds that can do just fine in WvW, including power builds. They just take a bit more effort and skill than other professions, which—as this thread demonstrates—is something most people can’t seem to handle. Alas!

Stormleaf.1769:

Rangers have plenty of builds that can do just fine in WvW, including power builds. They just take a bit more effort and skill than other professions, which—as this thread demonstrates—is something most people can’t seem to handle. Alas!

Nobody wants “just fine” (as a Ranger, settling for that is sad) and for the amount of effort or skill they claim to demand are hardly worth it. Also, I’ll assume you mean roaming or small groups and that’s not WvW, that’s PvP on a different map.

Castaliea.3156:

Nobody wants “just fine” (as a Ranger, settling for that is sad) and for the amount of effort or skill they claim to demand are hardly worth it. Also, I’ll assume you mean roaming or small groups and that’s not WvW, that’s PvP on a different map.

Enjoying a challenge is sad? Not wanting to play a mindlessly OP class that takes almost no effort to succeed with is sad? Please. If “nobody” wanted that, then there wouldn’t be any rangers left. But hey, there are!

Roaming is as much WvW as anything else. If you think zerging is the only meaningful activity, well… you’re just blatantly incorrect.

Stormleaf.1769:

Castaliea.3156:

Nobody wants “just fine” (as a Ranger, settling for that is sad) and for the amount of effort or skill they claim to demand are hardly worth it. Also, I’ll assume you mean roaming or small groups and that’s not WvW, that’s PvP on a different map.

Enjoying a challenge is sad? Not wanting to play a mindlessly OP class that takes almost no effort to succeed with is sad? Please. If “nobody” wanted that, then there wouldn’t be any rangers left. But hey, there are!

Roaming is as much WvW as anything else. If you think zerging is the only meaningful activity, well… you’re just blatantly incorrect.

And you claim to do this with a power build? I just don’t see it being possible. There’s burst or AE pressure potential with the entire class. A Warrior is likely to regen faster than you do damage. Condition I could see, but not as anything else I’m afraid.

Atherakhia.4086:

And you claim to do this with a power build? I just don’t see it being possible. There’s burst or AE pressure potential with the entire class. A Warrior is likely to regen faster than you do damage. Condition I could see, but not as anything else I’m afraid.

Yes, I do.

Have you not seen the videos of maul rangers doing 15k with one maul, for example? Plenty of burst there. Power builds can be quite successful. Just because you don’t have any experience with decent ones doesn’t mean power is useless.

My Ranger is awesome! And fun! There’s plenty of builds that work. And there’s one that I use that is great in large group WvW. Just don’t get caught up in the negative Nancy’s that rag on the funnest class in GW2! And that’s why we play right?

But rangers have unicorns

Stormleaf.1769:

Castaliea.3156:

Nobody wants “just fine” (as a Ranger, settling for that is sad) and for the amount of effort or skill they claim to demand are hardly worth it. Also, I’ll assume you mean roaming or small groups and that’s not WvW, that’s PvP on a different map.

Enjoying a challenge is sad? Not wanting to play a mindlessly OP class that takes almost no effort to succeed with is sad? Please. If “nobody” wanted that, then there wouldn’t be any rangers left. But hey, there are!

Roaming is as much WvW as anything else. If you think zerging is the only meaningful activity, well… you’re just blatantly incorrect.

When people sit there and go, LOOK AT THIS AWESOME BUILD I HAVE FOR WvW…..

It’s 99% of the time just going to be them running around and 1v1 a bunch of people. There’s no WvW involved. It’s just PvP in WvW’s unbalanced settings. If you want to call running in a circle doing nothing but looking for 1v1 fights WvW, well…. you’re just blatantly incorrect.

I play DD lb s/d ranger with troll urgent for roaming and healing spring for group stuff. When yaking I am not afraid to take on 2 people.

Stormleaf.1769:

Atherakhia.4086:

And you claim to do this with a power build? I just don’t see it being possible. There’s burst or AE pressure potential with the entire class. A Warrior is likely to regen faster than you do damage. Condition I could see, but not as anything else I’m afraid.

Yes, I do.

Have you not seen the videos of maul rangers doing 15k with one maul, for example? Plenty of burst there. Power builds can be quite successful. Just because you don’t have any experience with decent ones doesn’t mean power is useless.

Thats with zerker gear, on a noob who cant avoid the telegraphed maul. Zerker rangers are a gimmick at best.

I actually have fun playing my zerk type LB/SB build on a t1 server – solo thiefs tend to melt against it so if I see them coming they are toast, but it’s really for zerg play and attacking people on walls or from them.

It’s really all about position- running through the middle of the enemy zerg is NOT a good idea, but having lots of stacks of might and aoe flame bursts on a high crit/power build makes for a lot of fun on a stack full of people when your arrows hit multiple people.

I find having a pet in a zerg a complete waste of time, but it can be useful if you are caught out or just strolling around camp capping.

Yes, it’s squishy if caught out of position but it’s a real bag collector.

I have two other rangers which are the tanky evade types and it’s just not as much fun.

Jeezes, another kitten thread about how crap rangers apparently are?

Here is a newsflash: They aren’t! I’m still running WvW with my ranger (LB/SB) and manage quite nicely.. I run with my ranger both in guild zergs and solo, and never any problem here..

So everyone who claims that ranger was never worth anything: Please, L2P. And cut all these “buff my ranger because I suck” threads..

mistsim.2748:

Thats with zerker gear, on a noob who cant avoid the telegraphed maul. Zerker rangers are a gimmick at best.

See me gimmick..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRFszeYiXWg

All the people saying Rangers are great/okay are just wearing blinkers or have not got any other characters, I have all 8 and my Ranger dies more than the other 7, collects less loot, takes longer to do stuff and does rubbish dps compared to the other 7.

If you are playing Ranger to give yourself a ‘harder’ playing mode fine…

But don’t kid yourself Rangers are subpar in WvW.

Tribio.8531:

Jeezes, another kitten thread about how crap rangers apparently are?

Here is a newsflash: They aren’t! I’m still running WvW with my ranger (LB/SB) and manage quite nicely.. I run with my ranger both in guild zergs and solo, and never any problem here..

So everyone who claims that ranger was never worth anything: Please, L2P. And cut all these “buff my ranger because I suck” threads..

You could play any class with no armor on at 900-1200 range in a guild zerg and not die, it doesn’t mean you’re being as useful.

I have like 1500 hours logged on my ranger, which is my only lvl 80 toon. I do pretty well in wvw, and rarely die in zerg fights, 1v1s, or small group fights. I also command on it. I have like 33000 kills in about three months of wvw.

And I run a pvt build with no bm. Lb and axe/wh. The only things I’d like to see changed would be less susceptibility to retaliation, i.e., fewer ticks for barrage and hunter’s call, the ability to cast barrage while moving, and better pet controls/ai or the option to ditch the pet for a different f2.

Muddy terrain is invaluable as a soft ckittenil boons are stripped and barrage is also good bc of decent damage and cripple. Between barrage, hunters call, and rapid shot, I can drop almost 15k damage in a few seconds wth good survivability.

Tribio.8531:

mistsim.2748:

Thats with zerker gear, on a noob who cant avoid the telegraphed maul. Zerker rangers are a gimmick at best.

See me gimmick..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRFszeYiXWg

That’s just pve :/

Blix.8021:

You could play any class with no armor on at 900-1200 range in a guild zerg and not die, it doesn’t mean you’re being as useful.

Depends on your guild setup of course.. I’m the only ranger during our raids (almost everyone is a staff/hammer guardian), we have some elementalists (for static/fire fields) and the ocasional mesmer..
However, I think you mean here that the ranger doesn’t give any added value to a group? I am indeed not one who puts boons on my allies or such, but I am the one who does the damage.. Autoattacking with shortbow for 1k with piercing arrows, putting some entangle and barrage down, and back to keeping my distance..
Of course, depending on the size of the guild zerg, you can always switch to a spirit ranger build. Spirit of Nature’s Renewal is awesome and massive support in a group imho..

aspirine.6852:

That’s just pve :/

Agree, it’s not the zergballing that you’d like to see in WvW.. But the map is EB, so it is WvW, and all that is capped by my useless ranger gives points/tick..

People have to understand a few things about World vs World

You have 4 Ways to play it.

Guild vs Guild, which is a 25 vs 25 Zerg Mash up off in some corner, Rangers won’t be brought to this, then again most classes won’t…. This is really nothing but a giant zerg ball of Guardians/Warriors with the occasional Ele/Necro.

Group vs Group Combat, or Small Manning, You can bring a Ranger to this… This is kinda of like SPvP, Spirit Rangers or BM Bunker, or Ranger Dazer can run in this and be effective.

Solo running around, Again a Ranger can do this quite well, and kill a lot of classes fairly easy, So they’re not bad in that regard.

the only place we really suck at in my opinion is Zerging.

Because Zerging is about 1 thing, and 1 thing only..How many people you can hit so you can get bags..

We have 1 good AOE for this (traps are ok, but only in open field) and that’s Barrage, that is it….

The absolute best class in the game for zerging is also probably the best class in the game for solo roaming… and thats the Thief.

Which is what i always found funny about them whining they have to be good at soloing cause they’re useless in a zerg.

Now some are going to say “well my necro can hit a ton of people with Plague form and what not” and my response is, I have a Necro and I have a Thief…My Necro in No way comes anywhere near the amount of people my thief can hit….I have a Massive Poison Field that I can SPAM with Shortbow on my thief…..I can fire 3 off constantly….That will hit anyone who runs through it and apply poison…

Atherakhia.4086:

The ranger doesn’t have a power option anymore. I’m not sure they ever really did as even with zephyr + rapid fire, you still did crap damage. If you want to play the Ranger class you really need to just go 30 BM for empathic bond, 30 in Nature for spirits or 30 in marks for signets, and 10 wherever else you want and play as a bunker with high condition, healing power, and toughness (settler’s or apothecary).

ANet doesn’t seem to want the ranger class to amount to anything in this game. They’ve left pets in a miserable state, they have no power options at all, axe and shortbow are nearly identical weapons, longbow sucks, sword leap chaining is not user friendly, you need 30 points in a tree to make any use of about half the skills available, etc etc.

Just reroll. Warrior and Guardian tend to be the 2 classes ANet focuses heavily on and condition Warriors with longbows are 10x the Ranger the Ranger class will ever be (or ever was). Short of that, start farming Karkas…

Do you even KNOW what a ranger is?
Because if you do, you’d know that empathic bond isn’t even in the BM line. Its in Wilderness Survival. Which is the “anti CC” line.

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

The ranger doesn’t have a power option anymore. I’m not sure they ever really did as even with zephyr + rapid fire, you still did crap damage. If you want to play the Ranger class you really need to just go 30 BM for empathic bond, 30 in Nature for spirits or 30 in marks for signets, and 10 wherever else you want and play as a bunker with high condition, healing power, and toughness (settler’s or apothecary).

ANet doesn’t seem to want the ranger class to amount to anything in this game. They’ve left pets in a miserable state, they have no power options at all, axe and shortbow are nearly identical weapons, longbow sucks, sword leap chaining is not user friendly, you need 30 points in a tree to make any use of about half the skills available, etc etc.

Just reroll. Warrior and Guardian tend to be the 2 classes ANet focuses heavily on and condition Warriors with longbows are 10x the Ranger the Ranger class will ever be (or ever was). Short of that, start farming Karkas…

Do you even KNOW what a ranger is?
Because if you do, you’d know that empathic bond isn’t even in the BM line. Its in Wilderness Survival. Which is the “anti CC” line.

Day late dollar short my friend. It was already brought up. Do you have anything else or you just trolling?

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

The ranger doesn’t have a power option anymore. I’m not sure they ever really did as even with zephyr + rapid fire, you still did crap damage. If you want to play the Ranger class you really need to just go 30 BM for empathic bond, 30 in Nature for spirits or 30 in marks for signets, and 10 wherever else you want and play as a bunker with high condition, healing power, and toughness (settler’s or apothecary).

ANet doesn’t seem to want the ranger class to amount to anything in this game. They’ve left pets in a miserable state, they have no power options at all, axe and shortbow are nearly identical weapons, longbow sucks, sword leap chaining is not user friendly, you need 30 points in a tree to make any use of about half the skills available, etc etc.

Just reroll. Warrior and Guardian tend to be the 2 classes ANet focuses heavily on and condition Warriors with longbows are 10x the Ranger the Ranger class will ever be (or ever was). Short of that, start farming Karkas…

Do you even KNOW what a ranger is?
Because if you do, you’d know that empathic bond isn’t even in the BM line. Its in Wilderness Survival. Which is the “anti CC” line.

This is all I ever see from you, Chopps, and a few others. Attacking people for a typo or any other simple mistake and calling them noobs while ignoring the actual point they’re making. Laughable.

Castaliea.3156:

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

The ranger doesn’t have a power option anymore. I’m not sure they ever really did as even with zephyr + rapid fire, you still did crap damage. If you want to play the Ranger class you really need to just go 30 BM for empathic bond, 30 in Nature for spirits or 30 in marks for signets, and 10 wherever else you want and play as a bunker with high condition, healing power, and toughness (settler’s or apothecary).

ANet doesn’t seem to want the ranger class to amount to anything in this game. They’ve left pets in a miserable state, they have no power options at all, axe and shortbow are nearly identical weapons, longbow sucks, sword leap chaining is not user friendly, you need 30 points in a tree to make any use of about half the skills available, etc etc.

Just reroll. Warrior and Guardian tend to be the 2 classes ANet focuses heavily on and condition Warriors with longbows are 10x the Ranger the Ranger class will ever be (or ever was). Short of that, start farming Karkas…

Do you even KNOW what a ranger is?
Because if you do, you’d know that empathic bond isn’t even in the BM line. Its in Wilderness Survival. Which is the “anti CC” line.

This is all I ever see from you, Chopps, and a few others. Attacking people for a typo or any other simple mistake and calling them noobs while ignoring the actual point they’re making. Laughable.

and all i ever see, is you flaming us with nonsense and un-justified, subjective statements concering your own delusion of the class.

Prysin.8542:

Castaliea.3156:

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

The ranger doesn’t have a power option anymore. I’m not sure they ever really did as even with zephyr + rapid fire, you still did crap damage. If you want to play the Ranger class you really need to just go 30 BM for empathic bond, 30 in Nature for spirits or 30 in marks for signets, and 10 wherever else you want and play as a bunker with high condition, healing power, and toughness (settler’s or apothecary).

ANet doesn’t seem to want the ranger class to amount to anything in this game. They’ve left pets in a miserable state, they have no power options at all, axe and shortbow are nearly identical weapons, longbow sucks, sword leap chaining is not user friendly, you need 30 points in a tree to make any use of about half the skills available, etc etc.

Just reroll. Warrior and Guardian tend to be the 2 classes ANet focuses heavily on and condition Warriors with longbows are 10x the Ranger the Ranger class will ever be (or ever was). Short of that, start farming Karkas…

Do you even KNOW what a ranger is?
Because if you do, you’d know that empathic bond isn’t even in the BM line. Its in Wilderness Survival. Which is the “anti CC” line.

This is all I ever see from you, Chopps, and a few others. Attacking people for a typo or any other simple mistake and calling them noobs while ignoring the actual point they’re making. Laughable.

and all i ever see, is you flaming us with nonsense and un-justified, subjective statements concering your own delusion of the class.

And yet every time is a response, never an instigator.
Sorry.

Also, for someone claiming they get attacked with “nonsense and un-justified statements” aren’t you the one who told the entire Ranger thread they should kitten and be content with being anti social old farts on a mountain because that’s how you, and therefore ANet, views the class all the while conveniently ignoring the few posts or threads that actually point out real issues?

Yeah…

Tribio.8531:

Blix.8021:

You could play any class with no armor on at 900-1200 range in a guild zerg and not die, it doesn’t mean you’re being as useful.

Depends on your guild setup of course.. I’m the only ranger during our raids (almost everyone is a staff/hammer guardian), we have some elementalists (for static/fire fields) and the ocasional mesmer..
However, I think you mean here that the ranger doesn’t give any added value to a group? I am indeed not one who puts boons on my allies or such, but I am the one who does the damage.. Autoattacking with shortbow for 1k with piercing arrows, putting some entangle and barrage down, and back to keeping my distance..
Of course, depending on the size of the guild zerg, you can always switch to a spirit ranger build. Spirit of Nature’s Renewal is awesome and massive support in a group imho..

aspirine.6852:

That’s just pve :/

Agree, it’s not the zergballing that you’d like to see in WvW.. But the map is EB, so it is WvW, and all that is capped by my useless ranger gives points/tick..

1k auto attacks are not terribly impressive, nor is a mediocre aoe on a 24-30 second CD. That’s less damage output and about as much cripple uptime (because people can just move out of the barrage) as a warrior using a hammer in full ptv gear without any boons at all. Piercing arrows is nothing compared to cleave. Meanwhile the warrior is stunning people, clearing conditions, and blasting fields. “Keeping your distance” is utterly pointless. I can keep my distance on a level 2 character because I know how to kite and dodge, but it does not mean I am helping my team.

There’s a reason why gvg guilds don’t run many rangers: they don’t provide either the damage or the utility other classes do in large groups. At best, a ranger is worth a water field and 150 precision to 5 nearby allies with a somewhat useful elite every couple of minutes. I didn’t even mention pets, because they’re pretty much going to be cleaved to death.

Blix.8021:

Tribio.8531:

Blix.8021:

You could play any class with no armor on at 900-1200 range in a guild zerg and not die, it doesn’t mean you’re being as useful.

Depends on your guild setup of course.. I’m the only ranger during our raids (almost everyone is a staff/hammer guardian), we have some elementalists (for static/fire fields) and the ocasional mesmer..
However, I think you mean here that the ranger doesn’t give any added value to a group? I am indeed not one who puts boons on my allies or such, but I am the one who does the damage.. Autoattacking with shortbow for 1k with piercing arrows, putting some entangle and barrage down, and back to keeping my distance..
Of course, depending on the size of the guild zerg, you can always switch to a spirit ranger build. Spirit of Nature’s Renewal is awesome and massive support in a group imho..

aspirine.6852:

That’s just pve :/

Agree, it’s not the zergballing that you’d like to see in WvW.. But the map is EB, so it is WvW, and all that is capped by my useless ranger gives points/tick..

1k auto attacks are not terribly impressive, nor is a mediocre aoe on a 24-30 second CD. That’s less damage output and about as much cripple uptime (because people can just move out of the barrage) as a warrior using a hammer in full ptv gear without any boons at all. Piercing arrows is nothing compared to cleave. Meanwhile the warrior is stunning people, clearing conditions, and blasting fields. “Keeping your distance” is utterly pointless. I can keep my distance on a level 2 character because I know how to kite and dodge, but it does not mean I am helping my team.

There’s a reason why gvg guilds don’t run many rangers: they don’t provide either the damage or the utility other classes do in large groups. At best, a ranger is worth a water field and 150 precision to 5 nearby allies with a somewhat useful elite every couple of minutes. I didn’t even mention pets, because they’re pretty much going to be cleaved to death.

Nah man don’t you know that’s WHY you bring Rangers…so their pets soak up AoE, saving your team damage.. DUH.. geez.

(Yes, I’ve seen that used more than once as an argument)

I love playing a Ranger in WvW and have for a long time. I have an 80 Mesmer and Guardian and I would choose the Ranger any day of the week before those 2 professions. The Ranger’s pets and F-function keys are an issue in zergs but it hasn’t stopped me from enjoying the profession. I run with one of the best tier 1 guilds on SoR and I have not had a problem fitting in as a back-up water field and Crowd Controller. The Ranger might not be the best at anything but they do bring a lot of unnoticed utilities to both small and large groups. Muddy Terrain, Entangle and Spike trap are the best group crowd control abilities to counter stability stacking, also the Ranger is one of the top 3 bunkering professions in the game (I think # 2 before Guardians), our pets die quickly, but they do provide group buffs and utility to the group if micro managed properly, increase the groups damage with Spotter (+7% crit) trait and Frost Spirits aura (10% damage if you want to be a walking buff) and Rangers can easily go from zerging to Havoc to Roaming/Scouting with not major changing of traits or switch of their weapons.

One of the biggest problems I encounter with the Ranger is the learning curve in WvW. It’s easy to run a spirit build in Tpvp and pew-pew to victory but in zerg warfare on a tier 1 competitive level, it is a different story. Building the Ranger for that environment wasn’t an easy task for me and not a play style for everyone (especially the Legolas wannabes). In zergs, Rangers only make good bunkers because their shortbow and longbow skills are mainly for single target damage and have no piercing attacks without 20 points in Marksman making the bows lackluster in zergs compared to weapons such as: the Greatsword, main and off Axe, Warhorn and even the Torch. The longbow might have Barrage but for a 30/25 sec CD with only ok AoE damage and a decent cripple, I think the Axe is a better choose because the axe is a better mobile AoE weapon with Ricochet. Casting Barrage on your longbow can cost the Ranger dearly if the Ranger channels the skill at the wrong time. Ranger’s whirling defense is so underrated because it’s a 5 second reflection skill on a 25/20 second CD which is great to counter projectiles especially from Omega Siege Gollums. Also it’s a whirl finisher which is good to use while stacking with your group during a battle because it’s protecting players from enemy projectiles and shooting off bolts with healing, cleansing or condition buffing depending of the field.

When I started playing a Ranger in WvW zerging around November 2012, I used a hybrid P/V/T-Condition armor/trinket Trap builds which work well when used on back-line professions and on downed state players but didn’t work well with front-line professions because of the constant condition removal. Then I switched to a more CC based trap build with Spike Trap, Muddy Terrain and Entangle with the GS and Axe/Warhorn and realized the Ranger’s nitch. This soon got over shadowed by the Elementalist’s Static Field but once groups realized that stability was the best counter to it, Statics fields aren’t as strong was they were in the past yet Muddy Terrain is a good combination to use with Static Fields or other CCs as well. Using your Healing Spring as a group water field is tricky. We rely on Healing Spring as our main healing skills so it becomes situational but if you are a good zergling and stay with the group all the time, you should never have to use it on yourself but there are times you just have too.

In conclusion, I do support changes to our pet/F2 function to make them more practical to use in zerging and a realistic overhaul to our traits, but I don’t want the play style to change much. I feel Rangers are in a good spot compared to other professions that still need love as well. I just want players to understand that Rangers can be a difficult profession to play in WvW zerging which is why I feel there is a lot of negativity towards the profession as a whole. Rangers have to work a little harder to get things done; whereas, other professions have it a lot easier with the same or more reward but in the end.

Rangers aren’t difficult to play in zergs, it’s just that soft cc (chill, cripple, immobilize) is inferior to hard cc (stuns and walls combined with boon stripping to remove stability) in organized groups. Hell, most of the frontline is going to be guards and warriors running lemongrass, effectively ignoring any of the soft CC to begin with.

Can a ranger join a pug zerg, spam aoe, and collect loot bags? Yes. Is it optimal for an organized group of 20+? No.

Xsorus.2507:

Group vs Group Combat, or Small Manning, You can bring a Ranger to this… This is kinda of like SPvP, Spirit Rangers or BM Bunker, or Ranger Dazer can run in this and be effective.

In a five man group, the Ranger is the last class or near last I am inviting to the party. The fact that their pet often gets a buff meant for a player, gives away position, is used as a thief clocking device or a dozen other bad behaviors can be infuriating.

Xsorus.2507:

Solo running around, Again a Ranger can do this quite well, and kill a lot of classes fairly easy, So they’re not bad in that regard.

The ranger really isn’t good solo unless the player running it is very good. The solo ranger affords few mistakes, has no fight reset and has limited escape. It is a rarity that I run into a good solo Ranger… really rare. They do exist but I suspect that same player in another class would be even more powerful.

Xsorus.2507:

the only place we really suck at in my opinion is Zerging. Because Zerging is about 1 thing, and 1 thing only..How many people you can hit so you can get bags.. We have 1 good AOE for this (traps are ok, but only in open field) and that’s Barrage, that is it….

Rangers are actually decent in zergs compared to skirmish/solo. Healing spring is without a doubt the entire reason Rangers are welcomed into a zerg. That one skill is so awesomely good during siege that it makes up for all the under-powered abilities. Barrage is one of the worst skills in the Ranger line up and IMO should never be used outside of attacking a fixed position such as siege on a wall. While they may not pack a DPS punch in a zerg, piercing arrows with a high crit chance/Sigil of Fire is respectable. It routinely pops the squishier mid pack/back line fighters. Pets are mostly useless here which hurts but nice for an extra skill slot. They also perform fairly well in heavy lag as they are not as reliant on skill timing.

Xsorus.2507:

The absolute best class in the game for zerging is also probably the best class in the game for solo roaming… and thats the Thief.

IMO guardians, necros, staff eles, mesmers and warriors all rank above the Thief class in a zerg. Thieves have ONE thing truly zerg worthy and that is blast finishers. Their DPS is nice but their squishiness offsets much of that.

Xsorus.2507:

Now some are going to say “well my necro can hit a ton of people with Plague form and what not” and my response is, I have a Necro and I have a Thief…My Necro in No way comes anywhere near the amount of people my thief can hit….I have a Massive Poison Field that I can SPAM with Shortbow on my thief…..I can fire 3 off constantly….That will hit anyone who runs through it and apply poison…

Necros have become zerg busters. Wells, marks, boon stipping, terror, Epidemic, Plague, etc have come on strong in the last few weeks partially due to heavy lag which makes condi removal difficult. Not sure there is an effective zerg these days without a decent number of necros.

AydenStar.4216:

-snipper for length-

In conclusion, I do support changes to our pet/F2 function to make them more practical to use in zerging and a realistic overhaul to our traits, but I don’t want the play style to change much. I feel Rangers are in a good spot compared to other professions that still need love as well. I just want players to understand that Rangers can be a difficult profession to play in WvW zerging which is why I feel there is a lot of negativity towards the profession as a whole. Rangers have to work a little harder to get things done; whereas, other professions have it a lot easier with the same or more reward but in the end.

(Also note for Humans: Reaper of Grenth can be amazing if you’re looking for an alternative to Entangle)

But to get to the point…
As much as I like this post as a fellow Ranger you ignored our profession mechanic when talking about what you can bring for a group. How does that look to everyone else? Not good. It just isn’t suited for large group play like that. We no doubt have some handy soft CC utility skills but that’s only a small portion of what any other profession can bring.
We really don’t have a good selection of weapons for large battles. GS is okay but even that is just #1/2 spam. Axe and Sword both aren’t exactly the ideal form of a weapon when running through a blob either yet we have some awesome Off-Hand weapon skills that almost force us into using them. In addition to this we don’t really bring a unique profession mechanic to the fight as you said. So yes, it works and can be effective but that’s no reason to settle for mediocrity. There is a lot we can improve on. We shouldn’t just sit there and settle for 2 sources of Immobilize on long cool downs and an elite.

Castaliea.3156:

AydenStar.4216:

-snipper for length-

In conclusion, I do support changes to our pet/F2 function to make them more practical to use in zerging and a realistic overhaul to our traits, but I don’t want the play style to change much. I feel Rangers are in a good spot compared to other professions that still need love as well. I just want players to understand that Rangers can be a difficult profession to play in WvW zerging which is why I feel there is a lot of negativity towards the profession as a whole. Rangers have to work a little harder to get things done; whereas, other professions have it a lot easier with the same or more reward but in the end.

(Also note for Humans: Reaper of Grenth can be amazing if you’re looking for an alternative to Entangle)

But to get to the point…
As much as I like this post as a fellow Ranger you ignored our profession mechanic when talking about what you can bring for a group. How does that look to everyone else? Not good. It just isn’t suited for large group play like that. We no doubt have some handy soft CC utility skills but that’s only a small portion of what any other profession can bring.
We really don’t have a good selection of weapons for large battles. GS is okay but even that is just #1/2 spam. Axe and Sword both aren’t exactly the ideal form of a weapon when running through a blob either yet we have some awesome Off-Hand weapon skills that almost force us into using them. In addition to this we don’t really bring a unique profession mechanic to the fight as you said. So yes, it works and can be effective but that’s no reason to settle for mediocrity. There is a lot we can improve on. We shouldn’t just sit there and settle for 2 sources of Immobilize on long cool downs and an elite.

This is the only time I am going to respond to you, the Ranger profession mechanics are not the only class with this issue. Thieves and Engineers don’t have this dominate profession mechanics to bring to the group as well yet Ranger are in a better place then them. We have good abilities we bring to the table but yes they are lackluster compared to others. Anet is not going to change the Ranger over night and crying about it on the forums everyday is not going to make them do it faster. I am Sorry

AydenStar.4216:

This is the only time I am going to respond to you, the Ranger profession mechanics are not the only class with this issue. Thieves and Engineers don’t have this dominate profession mechanics to bring to the group as well yet Ranger are in a better place then them. We have good abilities we bring to the table but yes they are lackluster compared to others. Anet is not going to change the Ranger over night and crying about it on the forums everyday is not going to make them do it faster. I am Sorry

Sitting back and ignoring it, which you seem to prefer, also doesn’t resolve anything. While it’s hard to believe ANet is oblivious to the Ranger’s (or Thief’s, or Engineer’s) plight, it has been a year with next to no real progress being made as well.

While you can form an opinion on the class being over or underpowered all you want, the more alarming issue being discussed about the class is how downright boring it is to play because the class is so straight forward and ‘passive’. It’s a shame there’s no parsing of the combat log in this game because I’d wager any ranger who really sat down and thought about what they did all day while playing the class would find out 95% of their time was spent auto attacking.

There’s little else to do with nearly every weapon afterall but to auto attack. They designed so many of the Ranger’s weapons to be reflexive/defensive that you do nothing but autoattack while you wait for a chance to evade this move, daze that one, run away etc. Every other class in the game has some kind of synergy and ‘combo’ they can pull off to great extent with their class to really apply pressure to their target. What is a ranger to do? They auto attack until the enemy uses something so they can use an evading melee attack, or rapid shot to deal 10% more damage than auto attack over the same time frame.

It’s pathetic. Ask anyone to list the classes in value from most to least useful in WvW right now and I’d wager every single person has the same first three and same last three and probably in the exact same order as well… ready?

1. Guardian
2. Elementalist
3. Warrior
…
6. Engineer
7. Ranger
8. Thief

Thieves? They blast the fields…
Rangers? They drop the fields…

We’re coming up on the 1 year anniversary of this game. We will have no more patches before then. Are you impressed how the Ranger evolved? I’m not… but seeing as this is a Ranger thread, I’m not in the mood to talk about Thieves and Engineers so couldn’t care less if they haven’t changed for the better either…

Straegen.2938:

Thieves have ONE thing truly zerg worthy and that is blast finishers. Their DPS is nice but their squishiness offsets much of that.

Their dagger storm elite (haven’t levelled my thief yet so I can’t remember the real name) can cause panic in less organised zergs. Especially if it’s right before a push by the heavies.

AydenStar.4216:

Castaliea.3156:

AydenStar.4216:

-snipper for length-

In conclusion, I do support changes to our pet/F2 function to make them more practical to use in zerging and a realistic overhaul to our traits, but I don’t want the play style to change much. I feel Rangers are in a good spot compared to other professions that still need love as well. I just want players to understand that Rangers can be a difficult profession to play in WvW zerging which is why I feel there is a lot of negativity towards the profession as a whole. Rangers have to work a little harder to get things done; whereas, other professions have it a lot easier with the same or more reward but in the end.

(Also note for Humans: Reaper of Grenth can be amazing if you’re looking for an alternative to Entangle)

But to get to the point…
As much as I like this post as a fellow Ranger you ignored our profession mechanic when talking about what you can bring for a group. How does that look to everyone else? Not good. It just isn’t suited for large group play like that. We no doubt have some handy soft CC utility skills but that’s only a small portion of what any other profession can bring.
We really don’t have a good selection of weapons for large battles. GS is okay but even that is just #1/2 spam. Axe and Sword both aren’t exactly the ideal form of a weapon when running through a blob either yet we have some awesome Off-Hand weapon skills that almost force us into using them. In addition to this we don’t really bring a unique profession mechanic to the fight as you said. So yes, it works and can be effective but that’s no reason to settle for mediocrity. There is a lot we can improve on. We shouldn’t just sit there and settle for 2 sources of Immobilize on long cool downs and an elite.

This is the only time I am going to respond to you, the Ranger profession mechanics are not the only class with this issue. Thieves and Engineers don’t have this dominate profession mechanics to bring to the group as well yet Ranger are in a better place then them. We have good abilities we bring to the table but yes they are lackluster compared to others. Anet is not going to change the Ranger over night and crying about it on the forums everyday is not going to make them do it faster. I am Sorry

First, Engineers are amazing in groups so sorry about that try.
Second, Thieves have a hard time as they, like us, lack really good weapon set for zergs but they can soft control just as well as a Ranger, spam blast finishers, smoke/poison fields, and cloak a Mesmer for great portal bombs meanwhile having a mechanic that can actually do something.

Just another Ranger content with mediocrity. Stop acting like you’re superior because you’re content to sit and wait indefinitely for improvements that have been warranted since beta. Also, on that note it’s been the same problems for a year, not “overnight” so maybe it is time to start “crying about it”.

Sorry for the anger. Had a bad day.

Straegen.2938:

Xsorus.2507:

Group vs Group Combat, or Small Manning, You can bring a Ranger to this… This is kinda of like SPvP, Spirit Rangers or BM Bunker, or Ranger Dazer can run in this and be effective.

In a five man group, the Ranger is the last class or near last I am inviting to the party. The fact that their pet often gets a buff meant for a player, gives away position, is used as a thief clocking device or a dozen other bad behaviors can be infuriating.

Xsorus.2507:

Solo running around, Again a Ranger can do this quite well, and kill a lot of classes fairly easy, So they’re not bad in that regard.

The ranger really isn’t good solo unless the player running it is very good. The solo ranger affords few mistakes, has no fight reset and has limited escape. It is a rarity that I run into a good solo Ranger… really rare. They do exist but I suspect that same player in another class would be even more powerful.

Xsorus.2507:

the only place we really suck at in my opinion is Zerging. Because Zerging is about 1 thing, and 1 thing only..How many people you can hit so you can get bags.. We have 1 good AOE for this (traps are ok, but only in open field) and that’s Barrage, that is it….

Rangers are actually decent in zergs compared to skirmish/solo. Healing spring is without a doubt the entire reason Rangers are welcomed into a zerg. That one skill is so awesomely good during siege that it makes up for all the under-powered abilities. Barrage is one of the worst skills in the Ranger line up and IMO should never be used outside of attacking a fixed position such as siege on a wall. While they may not pack a DPS punch in a zerg, piercing arrows with a high crit chance/Sigil of Fire is respectable. It routinely pops the squishier mid pack/back line fighters. Pets are mostly useless here which hurts but nice for an extra skill slot. They also perform fairly well in heavy lag as they are not as reliant on skill timing.

Xsorus.2507:

The absolute best class in the game for zerging is also probably the best class in the game for solo roaming… and thats the Thief.

IMO guardians, necros, staff eles, mesmers and warriors all rank above the Thief class in a zerg. Thieves have ONE thing truly zerg worthy and that is blast finishers. Their DPS is nice but their squishiness offsets much of that.

Xsorus.2507:

Now some are going to say “well my necro can hit a ton of people with Plague form and what not” and my response is, I have a Necro and I have a Thief…My Necro in No way comes anywhere near the amount of people my thief can hit….I have a Massive Poison Field that I can SPAM with Shortbow on my thief…..I can fire 3 off constantly….That will hit anyone who runs through it and apply poison…

Necros have become zerg busters. Wells, marks, boon stipping, terror, Epidemic, Plague, etc have come on strong in the last few weeks partially due to heavy lag which makes condi removal difficult. Not sure there is an effective zerg these days without a decent number of necros.

1. Gives away a Position? Really? The fact that you think we can’t stow a pet to guard a Position makes me kind of laugh, Stealing a Buff could be considered an actual complaint, but then again, I can always stow my pet to stop that, and its not like Pets don’t do damage either. The Thief this is just silly, If you’re talking about a Group Fight a Thief has any number of targets he can hit, Sure in a 1v1 its annoying vs a thief, but in a group fight..Come on..Most players don’t even pay attention to the pet so worrying about a Thief using it for stealth is silly.

2. Rofl, Have you ever played a Ranger? Has no Fight Reset? No Escape? You realize how often I can charge away? Unless you’re just flat out zerging me i can usually escape a fight if I need to. Its no Thief by any means of escape, But to say we can’t escape come on….

3. Piercing Arrows and Sigil of Fire are in no way close to a Thief when it comes to Zerging…

4. Your mistake is believing utility is needed for Zerging, More Often then not as Zerg Fight is decided within the first few seconds of the fight The people retreating are usually the losers, while the people pushing are usually the winners. Simply having more people is all the utility you need in a fight 90% of the time, Hence being on one of those classes is pointless, Because At a Certain point, numbers simply counters every thing, and the ability to hit multiple is the absolute best utility you can have in a zerg, to which a Thief has no equal.

5. Again, a Necro is not amazing in a zerg because it does a lot of conditions, a Necro is amazing because it hits lots of people with Conditions, to which a Thief can do it easier and better if you know how too. I have both, the Thief is worlds better then a Necro at it….