Guild Wars 2

Seriously Anet, all you do is remove white swords and add PPK, and you are now calling it an “Event”?!

This is just insulting to us WvW players!

Every player you kill in WvW will gain your world a point. Earn an extra point by using a finisher while your world has Borderlands Bloodlust. Objectives under attack will not display their customary white sword, and the Mist War Summons buff will give you an extra +15% WXP gain, +50% Magic Find in WvW, and +15% experience on kills in WvW. If all goes well, this will be just the first of many special events in WvW.

Isn’t the definition of an event that they change/add stuff?

Well, it’s a temporary change, so I guess you can call that a event.

No this is a temporary test, not an event. Also a test which many of us have said we dont want because we already know the end result. By trying to call this some sort of special event, or treat for us WvW players is still insulting if you ask me.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

…we already know the end result.

No we don’t… You don’t know what every person that play GW2 think. You don’t know how every single person will react to the change. You don’t know if people will actually like it or really hate it as everyone is saying.

You know nothing, Jon Snow.

What we do know is that no one wanted these changes, even if they are temporary. unless you can link me to a thread where they do.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

What we do know is that no one wanted these changes, even if they are temporary. unless you can link me to a thread where they do.

Many many people wanted these changes, especially sever points for kills.

don’t care what they’re changing as long as they are at least changing something; also, since these changes are only temporary, there’s no reason to panic just now, we’ll see how it goes and if it goes bad (which might happen) we can spam the forum then
But yea, I was also surprised and a bit amazed how anet managed to make themselves look good and hard-working (regarding wvw) by calling this temporary testing period ‘event’ as if something ground-breaking were to happen. Looking forward to testing PPK though, might be interesting…
And I also get wvw buff? Amazing! Christmas came early this year! rofl xD

Peterson.8345:

But yea, I was also surprised and a bit amazed how anet managed to make themselves look good and hard-working (regarding wvw) by calling this temporary testing period ‘event’ as if something ground-breaking were to happen. Looking forward to testing PPK though, might be interesting…

Well, people are crying about it like if it was the end of the world… Pretty sure it’s somenthing “Ground-breaking”.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

What we do know is that no one wanted these changes, even if they are temporary. unless you can link me to a thread where they do.

I and many like me want these changes, will they work ? maybe, but it’s better than doing nothing.

I am confident that these changes will improve the WvW experience for many people that don’t like the brainless karma train.

sminkiottone.6972:

I am confident that these changes will improve the WvW experience for many people that don’t like the brainless karma train.

Except removing white swords only makes karma training easier.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

No this is a temporary test, not an event. Also a test which many of us have said we dont want because we already know the end result. By trying to call this some sort of special event, or treat for us WvW players is still insulting if you ask me.

Just because this is a “test” does not preclude it from also being an “event.” It’s a test run to see how people like doing something like this. If it is successful (ie people like it) perhaps they can add other events (like maybe objectives have expiration times and need to be “recaptured” from neutral if they are owned for an extended period of time for example) in the future. Things that aren’t pemenent, but can shake up the play on occasion. Sort of like when they added Flux to GW1 pvp.

mango.9267:

sminkiottone.6972:

I am confident that these changes will improve the WvW experience for many people that don’t like the brainless karma train.

Except removing white swords only makes karma training easier.

except that it doesn’t.

I guess they don’t want us to mention server names, so a short situational explanation before I go into my actual argument:

Server A (my home):
Low pop (upper end bronze) outside of prime-time, many dedicated defenders, tho. Many small guilds (10-15) as well, and during primetime most of them perform rather well. Also we always have at least one pug-commander on EB, which we call over to Home if we need to defend, while guild-groups + roamers focus Enemy Borders.

Server B (current matchup):
Outnumbers us vastly to all times (middle-low tier Silver). Does not even care to scout and k-train 24/7. Additionally they have 2 small guild-groups during prime-time, hopping maps and ganking other guild-groups exclusively (we’ve never seen them to try to attack a structure since friday ( first time that we’re matched up against B )), luckely we are mostly even numbers, but they interfere with and delay all our efforts during prime, which enables the k-train to rush in and clear almost all attacks on their stuff before we can make it to the lord.
Thus they have t3 keeps almost all week long, even tho their k-train does not put a single foot in their homeborder unless some WP is contested.

Server C:
Upper tier bronze as well, gets steamrolled, just like us (even harder since there is some personal Yadda Yadda going on between C and B ).

So, IF we would not have white swords, we could flip their towers + camps without Server B noticing it in time, crush their PPT and out-maneuver their k-train vastly. That would even allow us to downgrade their keeps even before it gets a wp (no contested wp to notice a siege cross-map).
Additionally we already have dedicated defenders on Server A who still upgrade and siege stuff, even while this karma-blobb is around (and actually scares them off from time to time), so our performance would not be impacted in the slightest.
Same goes for C, which also have their eco on a green footing.

I welcome this change, and would really like to see how Server B’s k-train / gank-squads reacts to this situation.

Arantheal.7396:

Additionally we already have dedicated defenders on Server A who still upgrade and siege stuff, even while this karma-blobb is around (and actually scares them off from time to time), so our performance would not be impacted in the slightest.

Therein lies the problem. Most servers don’t have dedicated scouts, especially during offhours, when they simply don’t have players. Your server might benefit, but this change will hurt the outnumbered server in almost all other situations. The larger server has more people to spare, and the sparse defenders from the smaller server can no longer watch the map to respond to attacks.

As an “avid” keep soloer I like the temporary removal of swords, but I can understand that scouts and server commanders are upset.

We will see what happens.

mango.9267:

Therein lies the problem. Most servers don’t have dedicated scouts, especially during offhours, when they simply don’t have players. Your server might benefit, but this change will hurt the outnumbered server in almost all other situations. The larger server has more people to spare, and the sparse defenders from the smaller server can no longer watch the map to respond to attacks.

You know what is funny? Server A been the most outnumbered server out there for sooooooo long (Almost two years of T8), yet it have more dedicated people to the ppt game than the other servers (or so you say).

I think the fact that people are happy there is change, even if it is a small change just shows how lacking the attention WvW has received.

What vexes me is that they are making these simplest of changes that took them minutes to implement, and claiming it to be an all-out event which they have spent weeks organising.

It is this “they’ll be happy with these small changes” attitude, and the fact that some of you fall for it which makes things worse. The devs will continue to assume they can do the minimal account of work required for WvW if we are happy to see such simple changes.

I myself, and others so see the greater potential of WvW; the fact that Anet refuses to push it to these potentials is just a great shame.

You wouldnt see them going to PvE claim to be removing all the orange ovals which point out where all the nearby dynamic events are and then call it PvE Dynamic Sneak Events.

“Experience the thrill of not knowing what the kitten is going on in PvE as well.”

It’s a “test event”, obviously. I don’t think the removal of white swords will be a good thing, but adding points for kills is a nice move that I hope they’ll end up keeping.

I think that this effect puts more value on scouts and leads to players starting to reward scouts more and organize scouting better. Also i think that this will make upgrade waypoint really good.

I totaly welcome this online test thing. Wvw needs extra loot, ppk and some changes every 2-3 weeks

Coinhead.7591:

I think that this effect puts more value on scouts and leads to players starting to reward scouts more and organize scouting better.

That’s the problem, there are no rewards, at all, in the game for scouting or patrolling!

Are the larger guilds willing to pay scouts with their own gold?
If so how much? It becomes complex and problematic, leading to many arguements etc.
What happens if a person is being paid x amount of gold per hour, and then at a critical moment they lose their internet connection for a few minutes. And during those minutes a zerg attacks and takes the tower.
It’s not that player’s fault, so do guilds still pay him or not? If not then does he make a complaint to anet? do Anet then tell that person that they cannot moderate such agreements in the game, and teh guy wasted his time and doesnt get his “reward”?

Removing white swords will produce this result.

As for PPK, zergs are already unwilling to fight another enemy zerg after a single wipe. So with points on the line during this testing period, you can bet to see zergs run away from smaller, better skilled groups, repeatedly.
Then we come back to the uplevels. It’s bad enough already players blaming them for wipes by helping to rally enemy players thanks to them being so squishy. Imagine the hate when each kill equals one point. Players will be demanding WvW be for 80 only characters, or be forced to move to different maps, or play at other times, or use any method to try to stop that one uplevel from following them.
You can see the arguements already:

" Go away!"
“But I die really easily, I need to run in a group”
“That’s why we want you to go away, you will cost us points!”
“But I wanna run with you”
“We dont want you with us”
“But I need to level up quickly”
“Go to EOTM then, that’s what it’s for!”
“But I wanna play here, with you”
“We dont want a rallybot!”

McWolfy.5924:

I totaly welcome this online test thing. Wvw needs extra loot, ppk and some changes every 2-3 weeks

WvW needs content updates, not band-aids.

Arantheal.7396:

mango.9267:

sminkiottone.6972:

I am confident that these changes will improve the WvW experience for many people that don’t like the brainless karma train.

Except removing white swords only makes karma training easier.

except that it doesn’t.

I guess they don’t want us to mention server names, so a short situational explanation before I go into my actual argument:

Server A (my home):
Low pop (upper end bronze) outside of prime-time, many dedicated defenders, tho. Many small guilds (10-15) as well, and during primetime most of them perform rather well. Also we always have at least one pug-commander on EB, which we call over to Home if we need to defend, while guild-groups + roamers focus Enemy Borders.

Server B (current matchup):
Outnumbers us vastly to all times (middle-low tier Silver). Does not even care to scout and k-train 24/7. Additionally they have 2 small guild-groups during prime-time, hopping maps and ganking other guild-groups exclusively (we’ve never seen them to try to attack a structure since friday ( first time that we’re matched up against B )), luckely we are mostly even numbers, but they interfere with and delay all our efforts during prime, which enables the k-train to rush in and clear almost all attacks on their stuff before we can make it to the lord.
Thus they have t3 keeps almost all week long, even tho their k-train does not put a single foot in their homeborder unless some WP is contested.

Server C:
Upper tier bronze as well, gets steamrolled, just like us (even harder since there is some personal Yadda Yadda going on between C and B ).

So, IF we would not have white swords, we could flip their towers + camps without Server B noticing it in time, crush their PPT and out-maneuver their k-train vastly. That would even allow us to downgrade their keeps even before it gets a wp (no contested wp to notice a siege cross-map).
Additionally we already have dedicated defenders on Server A who still upgrade and siege stuff, even while this karma-blobb is around (and actually scares them off from time to time), so our performance would not be impacted in the slightest.
Same goes for C, which also have their eco on a green footing.

I welcome this change, and would really like to see how Server B’s k-train / gank-squads reacts to this situation.

The problem with your logic is assuming servers will not adjust. Server B now just needs a few more people to stay on home BL rather than have 1-2map watchers. Theycan afford to have a few more scouts while the Ktrain still wrecks you. Also I’m sure wps will still show up contested the equivalent of white swords. Also they will still cap more than you and faster than you so PPT they still win. Also your 5-15man group will still get squashed when they catch you with their 25+ in most cases so more PPK for them too.

mango.9267:

Therein lies the problem. Most servers don’t have dedicated scouts, especially during offhours, when they simply don’t have players. Your server might benefit, but this change will hurt the outnumbered server in almost all other situations. The larger server has more people to spare, and the sparse defenders from the smaller server can no longer watch the map to respond to attacks.

You don’t need 10 scouts, at prime time, 2 good scouts are more than enough, don’t tell me you can’t spare 2 people, at off peak hours nothing will change the server who has more numbers will still map jump and flip keeps like it has always done.

But if your server only react to white swords then you might need to change your “tactic”, or better have one.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

Are the larger guilds willing to pay scouts with their own gold?
If so how much? It becomes complex and problematic, leading to many arguements etc.

I scout since day 1 and never asked anything, there are people who play for fun not just rewards. I just love to roam killing people, track enemy movements, place some supply and siege traps, inform the commanders/guilds of enemy movements and going to enemy camps to steal every supply.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

What happens if a person is being paid x amount of gold per hour, and then at a critical moment they lose their internet connection for a few minutes. And during those minutes a zerg attacks and takes the tower.
It’s not that player’s fault, so do guilds still pay him or not? If not then does he make a complaint to anet? do Anet then tell that person that they cannot moderate such agreements in the game, and teh guy wasted his time and doesnt get his “reward”?

I’m sorry but, are you high?

Buy Some Apples.6390:

WvW needs content updates, not band-aids.

You mean like Edge of the Mists that people have been raging and whining about since it was released?

Isn’t it better to actually test out things first? Maybe this time people will actually be truthful when it comes to the feedback (seeing as clearly the ones doing EotM feedback lied according to most people on these forums).

Removing white swords while there is a rampart of people “walking” through walls is an interesting idea.

Come on people, it’s a TEST! If the test is disastrous it won’t stick. Calm down.

The only thing white swords ever did was alert people that a small group was attacking something. Blobs melt gates before the 30 seconds is up, and even a duo can have a camp halfway taken by the time the swords pop.

As someone else said, if you’re using white swords to scout for you you’re doing it wrong, regardless of population.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Come on people, it’s a TEST! If the test is disastrous it won’t stick. Calm down.

When it was announced we asked how they came up with the idea, still no reply.
When they said they were going to test it for a month, it showed they didnt listen to us at all! They are just doing what they think is what we want.
So fine, they want to test it, test it; but it’s a test, a simple lame testing period.

Yet their blog seems to make it out to be an epic event, which has been “years in the making”, a ground-breaking change to the game like never seen before!
No it isnt, it’s still a test we didnt ask for! Stop making it out to be a big thing when it’s the smallest of things that they can do!

Didn’t they outright state that it was something that came out of the Adopt-a-Dev thingy for the tournament?

Yes and I have made several posts demanding to know who asked them for it! Still no reply but they are going ahead with it as if the entire community wants it to happen.

Yeah, and based on the reactions on these forums to any sort of change I for one would never say who come up with the suggestions, seeing as that would basically paint a massive bullseye on those people.

lordkrall.7241:

Yeah, and based on the reactions on these forums to any sort of change I for one would never say who come up with the suggestions, seeing as that would basically paint a massive bullseye on those people.

Maybe that’s why Anet is slower to release anything for WvW, because all they do is get negative feedback without players even trying the new changes.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

Seriously Anet, all you do is remove white swords and add PPK, and you are now calling it an “Event”?!

This is just insulting to us WvW players!

lol I was thinking the same thing. Take this garbage and call it an event. Wvw happy now? And a whole month of this?!

Sarsbear.3469:

The only thing white swords ever did was alert people that a small group was attacking something.

Not even true. For things like keeps, where white swords are important, they could melt one gate in under 30 seconds with the proper population or golems, but not two.

lordkrall.7241:

Yeah, and based on the reactions on these forums to any sort of change I for one would never say who come up with the suggestions, seeing as that would basically paint a massive bullseye on those people.

Where was the rage when WXP became account bound?
Where was the rage when double downed names turned grey?
Where was the rage when queues were made visible?

Those were good changes and the benefits of those changes were obvious. The changes coming up are bad changes and the negative impacts are also obvious. No white swords means more PVD, even the people defending it are doing so by saying it will allow them to capture towers and keeps from a larger server through PVD.

PPK does not incentivise winning fights, it incentivises staying alive at all costs. Blobs already play like this and PPK can only make it worse. It is also perfectly reasonable to assume that PPK will still give the larger server more points, though potentially not as large a margin as PPT.

So we’re getting one change that makes it easier to avoid fights and another that makes avoiding fights more important. How can this possibly improve a PVP game mode?

Buy Some Apples.6390:

What we do know is that no one wanted these changes, even if they are temporary. unless you can link me to a thread where they do.

I am looking forward to these changes, even if the result is bad atleast they’re adding to wvw now. Don’t try to speak for others, when you don’t know what everyone wants.

I’m just worried what will happen when a smaller server fights a larger server, and simply can’t kill as many people. Also the fun optionally of towers is over for this test. There is nothing worth while to having a tower since you can’t kill anyone if you are hiding in a tower. However, this is a guess. I love the idea and like how Anet is implementing it. We are finally starting to actively engage the community

The problem in making this at test is that after 2 weeks when they remove point per kills we will have to go back to the old mode. It’s going to be a major disappointment to step back to the current system.

So the real question, what outcome this “test” event should have to be “validated”? People alt-f4-ing more to avoid bonus stomp point? Bigger blobs to avoid being steamrolled by a group of enemies? More people locked in the towers because now you have to “watch” them because, apparently, 30-second delay on white swords is not good enough (does this mean that waypoint will remain uncontested?)? More people playing on non-T1 servers?
Or should we expect it to automatically be declared “success” no matter what happens?

mango.9267:

sminkiottone.6972:

I am confident that these changes will improve the WvW experience for many people that don’t like the brainless karma train.

Except removing white swords only makes karma training easier.

Karma trains will be walking ppk generators so keep doing it make sure that there are a lot of up levels who want to level up too mahahah.

Scouts will be super effective at getting your side points for the week to the point that every bl will have at least 2 per side the swords where a crush that makes WvW into a “care bear” mood now your going to have to do more then watch a map. Having said that if you now just watch the map even with swords your playing WvW WRONG its too easy to have bate swords pop from one person. You always needed scouts of some type or your main group would be trick most of the time WvW about communication and team fights if you just wanted random fights there EotM for you.

Bugabuga.9721:

Or should we expect it to automatically be declared “success” no matter what happens?

That is exactly what I suspect will happen.

What a perfect excuse to ignore WvW for a few weeks. Maybe I’ll manage to farm those 8000 Bandit Crests for the boots now.

lordkrall.7241:

Buy Some Apples.6390:

WvW needs content updates, not band-aids.

You mean like Edge of the Mists that people have been raging and whining about since it was released?

Isn’t it better to actually test out things first? Maybe this time people will actually be truthful when it comes to the feedback (seeing as clearly the ones doing EotM feedback lied according to most people on these forums).

I participated in the closed beta and I can tell you clearly why it failed and was not representative of the WvW population.

1- Server population was practically empty and all there was is unbalanced fighting like (10 v 2 – yes population was this low)
2- No known (reputable) wvw guild participated (i did out of pure curiosity)
3- Most guilds that were invited were PvE centric
4- People were testing stuff like using the bucket (i tried putting a treb up there and it worked, ha! unkillable treb ftw!)
5- Very few fights occured as people were too busy exploring, the provided teamspeak was always empty, you would have everyone running around with a tag up, etc…

EotM closed testing was a horrible experience. (With only PvE players testing it, it’s no surprise they are the ones that mainly use that map)

I am pretty sure (and for the first time that I will be defending anet in a long time) they want to avoid what I just said and get a proper test for the changes. They will be able to truly see how it impacts WvW for WvW players.

Edit: To all those that openly refuse to be part of this mass test without giving it a try is why WvW has remained stale for 2 years+ and why all the competitive guilds stopped playing this game out of pure boredom. Now that they finally give WvW some attention and show intent of change and balance, you guys shrug it off… then you will complain they dont ever try anything for wvw…

LostBalloon.6423:

lordkrall.7241:

Buy Some Apples.6390:

WvW needs content updates, not band-aids.

You mean like Edge of the Mists that people have been raging and whining about since it was released?

Isn’t it better to actually test out things first? Maybe this time people will actually be truthful when it comes to the feedback (seeing as clearly the ones doing EotM feedback lied according to most people on these forums).

I participated in the closed beta and I can tell you clearly why it failed and was not representative of the WvW population.

1- Server population was practically empty and all there was is unbalanced fighting like (10 v 2 – yes population was this low)
2- No known (reputable) wvw guild participated (i did out of pure curiosity)
3- Most guilds that were invited were PvE centric
4- People were testing stuff like using the bucket (i tried putting a treb up there and it worked, ha! unkillable treb ftw!)
5- Very few fights occured as people were too busy exploring, the provided teamspeak was always empty, you would have everyone running around with a tag up, etc…

EotM closed testing was a horrible experience. (With only PvE players testing it, it’s no surprise they are the ones that mainly use that map)

I am pretty sure (and for the first time that I will be defending anet in a long time) they want to avoid what I just said and get a proper test for the changes. They will be able to truly see how it impacts WvW for WvW players.

Edit: To all those that openly refuse to be part of this mass test without giving it a try is why WvW has remained stale for 2 years+ and why all the competitive guilds stopped playing this game out of pure boredom. Now that they finally give WvW some attention and show intent of change and balance, you guys shrug it off… then you will complain they dont ever try anything for wvw…

About the edit part. There are countless of ideas to work on the wvw and also very good ideas. Appearantly its to much work for them so instead they going to remove a line in the coding and hype it up as a Sneak Attack Event no one ever asked for.

So is it weird people shrug it off?

Buy Some Apples.6390:

What we do know is that no one wanted these changes, even if they are temporary. unless you can link me to a thread where they do.

No one of all 1 of you wanted those changes, uh huh.

We like the changes. 1k kills in 2.5 hours, not that bad loot and a tome of knowledge.

Carighan.6758:

Buy Some Apples.6390:

What we do know is that no one wanted these changes, even if they are temporary. unless you can link me to a thread where they do.

No one of all 1 of you wanted those changes, uh huh.

Seriously…point to a thread in which someone said it would be a great idea to remove the swords. Just one? Prior to them announcing it, I mean?

This is a baaaad idea. One that will blow up in our faces. Like the new Trait system, but, hey, they changed that pretty qui… oh oh.

LostBalloon.6423

To all those that openly refuse to be part of this mass test without giving it a try is why WvW has remained stale for 2 years+ and why all the competitive guilds stopped playing this game out of pure boredom. Now that they finally give WvW some attention and show intent of change and balance, you guys shrug it off… then you will complain they dont ever try anything for wvw…

Huh… didn’t even think of it that way. Very well, I shall give Anet the benefit of doubt for once. On the promise that they stop implenting unwanted changes. Or would atleast try to convince the core of WvW playerbase with their changes. Or even try to communicate with the WvW playerbase. More than twice per year even if they don’t have a spesific team for WvW (I don’t believe it if they say they have one). And not just go: “Naah, we’re gonna put this in anyway.”

Biggest mistake Anet made was lack of communication.

It helps to scout the camps. A lot of times a group or zerg will hit nearby camp before they head for a structure. You can usually keep an eye on a couple of structures from a supply camp also.

Jeknar.6184:

Well, it’s a temporary change, so I guess you can call that a event.

saying or implying that it’s temporary is only a means to cause people to stop whining, so that 2 weeks from now they have an opening to say “welp, we tested it and we have seen favorable results!” or some such nonsense.

they threw a bone and you were clearly the target audience.

if you think anet can monetarily afford to pay their developers to implement this content, only to say two weeks later, “oh nah, they don’t like it. we’re just going to click the ‘undo’ button,” then you’re just not thinking clearly.

it only takes peeking at some of the other ridiculously underdeveloped parts of the game to understand that it’s being run on a budget. for instance, the hacking in wvw due to a large portion of the game files being hosted client side? yeah that’s done so they don’t have to pay for more adequate servers, which cost more than what they are using now. just one example; there are obviously several other underdeveloped aspects, but listing them all would be exhaustive.

literally the only thing that will cause a reversal of this laughably so-called “test” is a very obvious outrage from the community to the point that basically no one wants to wvw after the change. are you willing to go that far to change their mind?

Not thinking clearly you say? That is what I feel your doing when you are making disingenuous claims, displaying an entire lack of knowledge of programming and developer intent.