Guild Wars 2

This has been going on for a long time, this thread is to express a lot of player’s discontentment with nowaday’s ladders, because yes some people think that there are counters other than internationalization and max number on all maps at every time to make WvWvW a fun place, while some others support this solution but supported officialy by A-net. So yeah, it isn’t supposed to be a match thread.

As an example, as I previously said, I’m playing on a EU server lacking a night force. The thing is I play at night myself, and often find 15-30 people at different hours of the night on just one map (Orr) farming. I think a counter and a fix to the “deal with it” would’ve been to try to successfuly mobilize those persons even if just an hour, I don’t know. VS isn’t overpopulated (we need A-net’s numbers on this issue, I don’t think there’s different server population caps), this server has a huge percent of its population willing to fight and imply themselves in their server’s lives. And also, the nightforce aren’t just a bunch of insomniacs. Some people just have different timetable (different working hours or idk) which makes it so that most of their free time is at night.

Ran a location check on the server IP when I was in all three borderlands and Eternal. In all cases the location points to Austin, Texas.

Looks like we might be playing on US server that are simply labelled as EU.

defrule.7236:

Ran a location check on the server IP when I was in all three borderlands and Eternal. In all cases the location points to Austin, Texas.

Looks like we might be playing on US server that are simply labelled as EU.

Well it’s true it is a “problem” too if that is the case. But it is also true that it is quite a common occurence by companies which can’t spread out server locations because their company aren’t wide enough. I think more than “where the servers are located” the tags are meant to distinguish the supposed population of those servers, which would have even more sense in this case since obviously they’re indeed located in USA.

I don’t know if this is meant to be temporary, but it might actually make sense when one see that all of the GW2 system feels kind of “global” with servers sharing their data together etc. Maybe there’s just one big pool of servers all realms use, or maybe there’s one server coordinating all others in which case using internet network/infrastructure could become a bottleneck for the system. I’m no GW2 dev but the reason might come such aspects. (since it’s known that NCSoft could’ve put those servers in germany)

I really cannot understand why FR/DE servers couldn’t recruit other timezones to help them out. You don’t need to communicate that much with them, just get them in for the times you cannot seem to be able to play and let them do their thing.

@Hrist

Mainly because 99,9% percent of the na/asian/oceanics players play on us servers. The other 0.1% who prefer to fight against gates ands npcs instead of competive pvp like Ruin joined a european server. No other european server has any significant overseas help. If any other us guild joins a european server, which would they choose? The de/fr tagged ones or one of the 15 english speaking servers?

Even if we would change the “wvswvsw language” into english, they would still join a server without a de/fr/sp tag. (not considering that the mapchat on some borderlands on Elonas Reach is dead, because 80%+ of the players are in the same teamspeak)

Altie.4571:

IE, look at US tier 1. All servers have a night time/prime time/early morning presence and it creates an even matchup. Get off the PvDoor argument because it’s flawed.

Us ladder doesn’t look that much balanced when you see server with less than 20k points against 400+k.

As a matter of fact except for T1 and maybe T7 no matchup seems balanced.
Not sure this is the way to go.

If I would belong to a US guild that was looking for a different setting than the US bracket, I wouldn’t count out single language servers. Guilds communicate with their VoIP and guild chat, not the map/team chat. One person can relay the information of what said guild is going to do for the rest of the server, there’s no requirement to learn another language for the whole guild.

I suspect it is a pool of servers too but who knows. If we are all connected to Texas, I am all for WvW merging so we get 24/7 on all servers. Night-capping isn’t an issue if all servers are capable of fighting around the clock.

I think if for example we had 36 global servers, it would probably work. It might actually reduce queues and eliminate night-capping.

Currently, during US prime time the peak load is spread over 24 servers. With the change the peak load would be spread over 36. Of course, Europeans will also be in the same 36 servers but they in general aren’t causing queues to go up because they play when you goto sleep.

Currently a lot of servers have roller-coaster activity cycles with very high and extremely low peaks. It would be great with we can iron out those peaks so that activity is more consistent around the clock.

Quote:
“If I would belong to a US guild that was looking for a different setting than the US bracket, I wouldn’t count out single language servers. Guilds communicate with their VoIP and guild chat, not the map/team chat. One person can relay the information of what said guild is going to do for the rest of the server, there’s no requirement to learn another language for the whole guild.”

just no and thats the reason why 1 language servers are most time stronger than this multilanguage servers how you can see in eu ranking (ignore desolation its no eu server anymore)
we have server ts and we work as 1 team and not per guild a seperate team with some teamchat

That is true, the point of language based servers is a bigger cohesion generally since everyone plays together basically (speaking the same language at the same level, everyone is on the same ground). There are advantages to both sides, it’s different gameplays, and that’s part of the reason of this whole discussion.

But in this discussion your side seems to be demanding for the other side to stop using their style of gameplay, the populating of timezones outside of EU, like it’s some sort of a crime.

Not really, just saying that for over a month servers were actually 95%+ european players (or similar), why the need to change it suddenly in such a way ? Usual EU players can get many advantages of such a ladder though, although none really stayed T1 I do believe some could’ve done it with a bit more organization esp. BT, FSP, DS. I’m also pretty sure a sizeable % of the american population would actually enjoy having their own ladder seeing many comments around here. But that’s just me.

And if that is the case, we can also say that an incredibly small part wants to impose their enlightenment from NA’s situation to EU. This would never end this way.

Romek.4201:

Quote:
“If I would belong to a US guild that was looking for a different setting than the US bracket, I wouldn’t count out single language servers. Guilds communicate with their VoIP and guild chat, not the map/team chat. One person can relay the information of what said guild is going to do for the rest of the server, there’s no requirement to learn another language for the whole guild.”

just no and thats the reason why 1 language servers are most time stronger than this multilanguage servers how you can see in eu ranking (ignore desolation its no eu server anymore)
we have server ts and we work as 1 team and not per guild a seperate team with some teamchat

Your argument holds no water at all there are NA servers using oceanic guilds that do not speak the language but use relays between guilds. They top the boards more often than not despite your arguement of a language barrier. Somehow they get by and adapt why can’t you? Why does an entire game have to change to serve one linguistic device.

For That matter how are euro servers which are melting pots not disadvantaged when there can be many languages cooperating together. Somehow they manage it.

Desolation major guilds all dip in and out of each others TS channels or have a higher ranking officer in there and the TS channel’s is also advertised so its roughly the same system.

You choose to run one chat…thats your choice. Others choose to use their own while dipping out of others.

The comment to ignore Desolation as its no longer an EU server is also a pretty unreasonable statement when your talking about a small window of time and relatively small window. Your also blaming one relatively small guild in the grand scheme of games (but a notable one) for all of your concerns. Thats when you often see an equal number of french nightcapping and then also 2 v 1 thru the day.

Some people take time to do their reading as far as I know MCM or a large french guild stopped playing which is why your here now.

Why should you be given special treatment every server reaching the top had to recruit from outside to make it happen but you think your special in that respect? If thats the case then Anet would need to restrict players to a particular window and probably drop out the third party to stop same language servers teaming up unfairly on the third with no coverage in the downtime. Oh but some servers night capped to the top so I wonder how that one would pan out.

The system could work on a whole its just a few servers choosing not to work with it. VS hasnt even lost yet.

Gwal.2813:

Why a server with more dedicated, more wvw oriented, and overall with better players, (which is the case of Vizunah, Arborstone and Elona I believe) should be behind in the ladder just because they don’t speak English ?

I’m really interested to know if this is the majority opinion on those servers. That the reason they were in tier 1 is because they are just better than everyone else? That the fact that Vizunah, at least at one point, had 500 person queues and full maps 23 hours a day was just a coincidence and that the real reason that they dominated tier 1 for a month is just because nobody else was quite as good as them? Perhaps it was a coincidence that the week Elona won just happened to be the same week that parts of Germany was on holidays?

The truth is that WvW ranking has never really been a measure of skill. It plays a part to be sure, but a minor one in comparison. Maybe the players on Vizunah or Arborstone or Elona really are just better, there is no real way to tell by looking at the data we are given. The only real thing it measures is the total amount of man hours people are playing WvW. Whether those hours come from a larger community (Vizunah), public holidays (Elona) or overseas players (Desolation), makes no difference. The goal of server ranking isn’t that the servers with the best players are competing, the goal is that the matchups be competitive and you can’t look at the current score in tier 1 and tell me that isn’t competitive.

I guess all the euro guilds and alliances in the tier 1 and 2 of NA should all get moved too then, right? So we dont get daycapped

@natureswarden :
Well it’s not an EU server anymore, it’s a global one. The fact that maybe this is how things should turn out doesn’t change this, it’s a fact

Now for quite sometimes there has been numerous posts on these very forums asking anet to switch VS to NA – trolls all of them, probably even worse than those from VS complaining at this moment… Most people are not saying DS is a NA serv, but it is not an EU serv anymore either. It is something else now.

The fact that everyone had to recruit to reach the top except VS does mean something, maybe they are less dedicated, maybe the language barrier is a disadvantage… in that respect VS is indeed special.

Also, even if it is completely off topic, I think the fact that VS and AS are both fr servs actually destroyed their alliance rather than cementing it. French servs tend to enjoy beating each other way more than they enjoy beating someone else. SO your last point is shaky.

Knasher.5607:

Gwal.2813:

Why a server with more dedicated, more wvw oriented, and overall with better players, (which is the case of Vizunah, Arborstone and Elona I believe) should be behind in the ladder just because they don’t speak English ?

I’m really interested to know if this is the majority opinion on those servers. That the reason they were in tier 1 is because they are just better than everyone else? That the fact that Vizunah, at least at one point, had 500 person queues and full maps 23 hours a day was just a coincidence and that the real reason that they dominated tier 1 for a month is just because nobody else was quite as good as them? Perhaps it was a coincidence that the week Elona won just happened to be the same week that parts of Germany was on holidays?

The truth is that WvW ranking has never really been a measure of skill. It plays a part to be sure, but a minor one in comparison. Maybe the players on Vizunah or Arborstone or Elona really are just better, there is no real way to tell by looking at the data we are given. The only real thing it measures is the total amount of man hours people are playing WvW. Whether those hours come from a larger community (Vizunah), public holidays (Elona) or overseas players (Desolation), makes no difference. The goal of server ranking isn’t that the servers with the best players are competing, the goal is that the matchups be competitive and you can’t look at the current score in tier 1 and tell me that isn’t competitive.

I agree wholeheartedly with this post.

If the ranking were designed to stack that way all the top pvp guilds would gravitate to one server and that could still happen noones stopping it for anyone willing to get up and actually do something to help their server rather than sway public opinion to suit a very small minority.

WvW and the transfers are set up the way they are as far as I can see to give the average player a chance to participate. Thats what makes it fun because anyone can drop into them and you need to work with what you are given at a particular time.

That means the ranking will evolve regularly and people might move round or they might not. Some servers might just learn to coordinate better to deal with fluctuations.

Some servers have a huge advantage in one language then want to complain about night cap when they have done not only that but regularly use 2 v 1 also.

Not really fair at all some people arent seeing the positives in what they have at all or thinking outside the box to make it happen.

Jaghen.8314:

The fact that everyone had to recruit to reach the top except VS does mean something, maybe they are less dedicated, maybe the language barrier is a disadvantage… in that respect VS is indeed special.

Yes, special in a way that they’ve had superior numbers compared to many other servers since the launch of the game. Now that Desolation for example went out of their way to fill their server with more WvW interested people from another timezone since not enough could be gathered from elsewhere, they’re being pointed out. A server steps up their game and gives you a challenge, please don’t act like some sort of victim because of it.

Jaghen.8314:

@natureswarden :
Well it’s not an EU server anymore, it’s a global one. The fact that maybe this is how things should turn out doesn’t change this, it’s a fact

Now for quite sometimes there has been numerous posts on these very forums asking anet to switch VS to NA – trolls all of them, probably even worse than those from VS complaining at this moment… Most people are not saying DS is a NA serv, but it is not an EU serv anymore either. It is something else now.

The fact that everyone had to recruit to reach the top except VS does mean something, maybe they are less dedicated, maybe the language barrier is a disadvantage… in that respect VS is indeed special.

Also, even if it is completely off topic, I think the fact that VS and AS are both fr servs actually destroyed their alliance rather than cementing it. French servs tend to enjoy beating each other way more than they enjoy beating someone else. SO your last point is shaky.

I just posted up based on the dismissing of an entire server because I feel these are attempts to troll off ruin or create infighting on Deso and have read loose things in other areas suggesting as such. Desolation worked to get the server to where it is not just Ruin.

The last part about rivalry within is a matter of pride and its a choice. If these servers don’t like whats happening they can pair together which others even with very bitter blood actually do. Its their choice not to do that so what can they expect to be handed a win if they won’t or allowed to hand pick the teams? thats what tournament play is for and yes some people world hop to play tourneys like that so if the transferes were to stop entirely where would those people be?

Theres one guild on VS that is also on AS and you can chat between worlds. A guy livesteaming another teams WvW positions was banned on the NA servers. How is this any different when you can steer a tide of people like that through one guild. Desolation isnt using tactics like this and so far I havent seen one person here mention it. I’ve just had enough of the oh poor me tale so yeah gonna throw that out there.

If I sound like whining, I apologize since it was nowhere near my intention… as I said, to me those whining are mostly trolls, and do not reflect the majority of people in VS or AS, no more than those insulting French for… being French do reflect DS population (well at least I do hope so ^^)

So far VS seems so be holding pretty well, holiday helping for sure, I guess we’ll need more match ups to see if the Language specific servs are doomed to end up in bottom tiers as the OP suggests or not

Why don’t they just zone lock the servers down WvW wise? Would that be hard to implement. One of the contenders for the top spot in the US is Blackgate, which was on the way down until a large EU guild transfered there and a lot of people jumped on the bandwagon after that news broke.

I love playing with EU folks and I wish they’s have a “world series” every 2 months and have like servers face off across the pond.

That being said, US players on EU and vice-versa are creating a situation where every server is openly recruiting people from other continents. For some of these folks, winning is absolutely everything and they seem satisfied to break the game for everyone else if it means they can beat their chests and claim dominance in a manufactured arena.

Chris.3290:

Why don’t they just zone lock the servers down WvW wise? Would that be hard to implement. One of the contenders for the top spot in the US is Blackgate, which was on the way down until a large EU guild transfered there and a lot of people jumped on the bandwagon after that news broke.

I love playing with EU folks and I wish they’s have a “world series” every 2 months and have like servers face off across the pond.

That being said, US players on EU and vice-versa are creating a situation where every server is openly recruiting people from other continents. For some of these folks, winning is absolutely everything and they seem satisfied to break the game for everyone else if it means they can beat their chests and claim dominance in a manufactured arena.

I have to ask theres map chats on every world and every person is their own person. Theres nothing stopping other servers making an attempt to do the same or having the luxury to hop where they would like to be a part of it. I think over time rather than disrupt the rankings it will actually balance it as certain guilds find their place and settle. The fluctuations will come when there are disagreements and teams no longer function as such. That just means the remaining side has to work to get back where they were. Thats just life though you have to work fr what you want in it. If you expect to be just given wins whilst using every tool and a host of questionable tactics also thats just wrong in my book especially to sit and complain when its not working out for you

Jaghen.8314:

If I sound like whining, I apologize since it was nowhere near my intention… as I said, to me those whining are mostly trolls, and do not reflect the majority of people in VS or AS, no more than those insulting French for… being French do reflect DS population (well at least I do hope so ^^)

So far VS seems so be holding pretty well, holiday helping for sure, I guess we’ll need more match ups to see if the Language specific servs are doomed to end up in bottom tiers as the OP suggests or not

It didnt sound like whining at all I just didnt appreciate the dismissive tone of the OP and fel these people have massive advantages while being given the same tools as anyone else ingame to win.