Guild Wars 2

I’m talking about groups of players who are deliberately standing on top (turtling) of each other to take advantage of game mechanics which currently, only allows AOE to damage up to 5 targets. The game mechanics currently for AOE damage is limited to only 5 targets.

What this means is, the bigger the group, the exponentially harder it gets to kill. A group of 20, means your AOE’s only hit 5 players. The other 15 will simply revive/pick up whoever gets downed or killed. Players and guilds have taken notice of this stupid tactic, and have increased that number from 20, to instead being 50, or in some cases, 70. When you have 50 or 70 players clumped together on top of each other, that group is practically invulnerable. They do not die, they are essentially immune from AOE damage (heals within the group heal everyone), and they can pick up/revive anyone who gets downed/dies instantaneously.

This cheese tactic is becoming the ONLY tactic in WvW, and sieges/defending points are gradually turning into competitions of which side can turtle better with more people.

Can we get an official response from ArenaNet to confirm whether this is intended or not?

Only way to fix this would be to implement collision detection, but that would drastically reduce performance in WvW (to the point of maybe allowing 50 players a side per map).

Or raise or even get rid of the Aoe cap, which is MUCH easier for the coders since there isn’t even a collision detection function at all yet.

Wouldn’t an easier fix be to simply remove the arbitrary limit on AOE damage which is currently capped at 5 players?

The way the mechanics currently work means that players are enticed to turtle together, instead of running away from an AOE, they run/portal INTO IT to mitigate its effectiveness.

This is the issue.

Not it wont. Limit is there to actually protect you from organized groups to AoE spike everyone nearby. Like i said in the other thread, by removing limit you are actually giving more power to this kind of tactic.

“What this means is, the bigger the group, the exponentially harder it gets to kill. "

This is not correct. Boons stack is linear and it’s not a value of boon, but duration, compared to dmg and some conditions. There is a max duration too. Turtle is not invincible.

AoE cap is there for a reason. If it was not there I could kill 20+ people before they even realized they were under attack.
To give an example from a different game that did not have AoE cap on release (WAR); I was standing a little out of the way during a keep attack and the enemy had a full warband (24 people) standing on the battlements. I killed all of them on my own without taking a single hit from any of them. Or another example; me, another sorc, 2 chosen knights and 2 disciples of khaine held a lord’s room against 40 people and killed them all at once when they were rushing us. Even with AoE caps you could kill ridiculous amounts of people with a relatively small warband.

If you were to remove that cap in this game, you would create so much QQ only the Shiverpeaks would be left above sea level after one day of zergs dying to a small organised group.

Getting rid of the AOE cap would be the worst thing to happen to this game. If they did that then AOE would need a 10x reduction in damage at least or much smaller radius’s to the point where they aren’t really AOE. Otherwise you would have a few AoE classes that could defend against a giant zerg. A single necromancer could cripple an entire army with an 8k+ bleed and 2-3 necromancers could just flat out kill an army.

I’d rather have hard to kill stacks of people than fights were a handful of AOE classes kill an army.

Vayra.3290:

AoE cap is there for a reason. If it was not there I could kill 20+ people before they even realized they were under attack.
To give an example from a different game that did not have AoE cap on release (WAR); I was standing a little out of the way during a keep attack and the enemy had a full warband (24 people) standing on the battlements. I killed all of them on my own without taking a single hit from any of them. Or another example; me, another sorc, 2 chosen knights and 2 disciples of khaine held a lord’s room against 40 people and killed them all at once when they were rushing us. Even with AoE caps you could kill ridiculous amounts of people with a relatively small warband.

If you were to remove that cap in this game, you would create so much QQ only the Shiverpeaks would be left above sea level after one day of zergs dying to a small organised group.

Pretty much this. Every choke point would be camped by a handful of AOE classes that could stop a huge group of people cold. I played WAR and the BW AOEing was insane even in a scenario it was so stupid. That was a big part of what drove people off, trying to take a keep with a few BW/Sorcs guarding it was impossible, even more so if they had the engi/magus grabs that warped everyone to one spot.

Zahdane.4029:

I keep hearing this argument about killing massive amounts of people with aoes..
Going to have to call BS on this. If aoes aren’t killing solo people worth a kitten (Before they can dodge) what makes you think you’re going to take out armies by yourself?

AoEs are supposed to punish baddies who stack up like a bunch of morons.
This is a broken game mechanic that allows people to stay safe and virtually unkillable while grab each other’s kitten

Remove aoe target caps.

Yet the history from other games with true WvW says otherwise.

There is one more aspect to think bout, if we are talking about AoE limit. AoE limit => less trafic to server => less lagg.

Removing the limit will make Wv3 one big mess.

Distaste.4801:

Getting rid of the AOE cap would be the worst thing to happen to this game. If they did that then AOE would need a 10x reduction in damage at least or much smaller radius’s to the point where they aren’t really AOE. Otherwise you would have a few AoE classes that could defend against a giant zerg. A single necromancer could cripple an entire army with an 8k+ bleed and 2-3 necromancers could just flat out kill an army.

I’d rather have hard to kill stacks of people than fights were a handful of AOE classes kill an army.

What are you talking about? What kind of army stands in one spot together? Oh wait. That’s right! The kind of army that’s taking advantage of this turtling exploit.

Removing the cap on AOEs will not let my elementalist kill an army. Very rarely do I ever get a chance to hit 5 or more people bunched together on a bridge even if there’s a big zerg. Most of them roll out of my AOEs and I only down one. (who immediately get’s rezzed anyways).

If I can kill 20 people at once with my meteor storm, then they deserve to die for being so stupid. Or deserve to die for trying to exploit.

This turtling thing is a big issue with no counter.

Zahdane.4029:

No if it was nearly as bad as they are saying, then 1 aoe class could kill anyone with just a couple of casts.
This is not even remotely true.

Show me aoes doing 5k+ damage that are spammable and continuous.
AoE cap needs to be increased.

I also played DAoC and WAR. You learned to not be bad. You didn’t stack up like a moron.

Organized group of Eles and Necros would kitten you. Removing limit will actually help turtle tactics as well, coz they will have higher dmg.

EvilSardine.9635:

This turtling thing is a big issue with no counter.

There is counter, you just don’t know it.

I’ve played a lot of WvW, and in pre-turtle days, the 5-man AoE cap rarely came into play, except in cases of door crowds and lord rooms.

My solution is to remove 5-man AoE cap for everywhere except lord’s room. The door crowd will have to rely on their allied AoE’rs to protect them — and more reliance on catas from a distance.

fears, knock-backs, then bubbles/walls… no turtling anymore

@Destroyer:
sure… simply bombing zergs out of lord´s room…

to all you “cap-removers”:
now i WISH that the cap would be removed for only two days… and i´ll lough about all your “stopp-that-silly-no-skill-game-destroying-bombing”-threads!

Well organized groups of eles and necros aren’t doing a kitten thing now to 5 targets.
I think I’ll take my chances and maybe use my dodge ability…

Cheap tactics that are broken need to be fixed. The best way to fix this is to remove aoe caps. If for some crazy reason damage on aoes needs to be adjusted after that, I’m sure ANET can handle the job.
Because what you are saying sounds like aoes do wayyyy too much damage anyways and need a nerf.
Otherwise this game is going to turn into who has the best turtle; if that is your idea of fun then I’m sure your life as a bot will be rewarding and uncomplicated.

EvilSardine.9635:

Distaste.4801:

Getting rid of the AOE cap would be the worst thing to happen to this game. If they did that then AOE would need a 10x reduction in damage at least or much smaller radius’s to the point where they aren’t really AOE. Otherwise you would have a few AoE classes that could defend against a giant zerg. A single necromancer could cripple an entire army with an 8k+ bleed and 2-3 necromancers could just flat out kill an army.

I’d rather have hard to kill stacks of people than fights were a handful of AOE classes kill an army.

What are you talking about? What kind of army stands in one spot together? Oh wait. That’s right! The kind of army that’s taking advantage of this turtling exploit.

Removing the cap on AOEs will not let my elementalist kill an army. Very rarely do I ever get a chance to hit 5 or more people bunched together on a bridge even if there’s a big zerg. Most of them roll out of my AOEs and I only down one. (who immediately get’s rezzed anyways).

If I can kill 20 people at once with my meteor storm, then they deserve to die for being so stupid. Or deserve to die for trying to exploit.

This turtling thing is a big issue with no counter.

You’re thinking too singularly.

Removing the 5 player cap on AoE would allow AoE classes the ability to wipe out massive numbers of people pretty much instantly with Coordinated Spike AoE.

1 person wouldn’t kill 20 people.. but 10 people all dropping AoE at the exact same time would drop 40 people before they had a chance to react.

Sure removing the cap encourages people to spread more.. but then Defenders would just have to stagger spikes between separate groups. Then you’ve got a choke point covered at all times and no one can move through it.

There are already 10 people dropping AoE including siege already when I double tap through lords room… I’ve never died in the Lord’s room Choke even once. If they kill me it’s further in. There are a couple chokes that I find tougher than most Lords rooms but I have yet to say gee commander that’s a lot of AoE I don’t know if I can get in this time.

turtling is a terrible tactic. at first it seems impossible to counter, but it’s actually very easy. all you have to do is a 2 pronged attack. one side aoe’s at range the turtle from the west, while a small squad ninja insta-builds a ballista from the east. the ballista wrecks the turtle, and you get to /dance.

or if you can’t do this, simply divert them away and attack them while they are on the move. given that they have to resort to turtling to do anything at all, you can be sure that they will wipe while on the move.

Arani.9057:

There are already 10 people dropping AoE including siege already when I double tap through lords room… I’ve never died in the Lord’s room Choke even once. If they kill me it’s further in. There are a couple chokes that I find tougher than most Lords rooms but I have yet to say gee commander that’s a lot of AoE I don’t know if I can get in this time.

That’s because the hits you take are spread out among all the people coming through (since each hit can only do damage to 5 people). If every hit dealt damage to each player you would be dead before you got within 30 feet of the gate.

Vayra.3290:

Arani.9057:

There are already 10 people dropping AoE including siege already when I double tap through lords room… I’ve never died in the Lord’s room Choke even once. If they kill me it’s further in. There are a couple chokes that I find tougher than most Lords rooms but I have yet to say gee commander that’s a lot of AoE I don’t know if I can get in this time.

That’s because the hits you take are spread out among all the people coming through (since each hit can only do damage to 5 people). If every hit dealt damage to each player you would be dead before you got within 30 feet of the gate.

I run in solo most the time

Arani.9057:

There are already 10 people dropping AoE including siege already when I double tap through lords room… I’ve never died in the Lord’s room Choke even once. If they kill me it’s further in. There are a couple chokes that I find tougher than most Lords rooms but I have yet to say gee commander that’s a lot of AoE I don’t know if I can get in this time.

Well put.
All this exaggeration about aoe damage is just silly. You guys are making it sound like backstabbing rogues that blanket an entire map.

We can dodge twice. If people are having issues surviving trivial aoe damage like this, maybe they need to stop speccing glass canon.

Arani.9057:

There are already 10 people dropping AoE including siege already when I double tap through lords room… I’ve never died in the Lord’s room Choke even once. If they kill me it’s further in. There are a couple chokes that I find tougher than most Lords rooms but I have yet to say gee commander that’s a lot of AoE I don’t know if I can get in this time.

That’s because there IS currently a cap on the AoE. Removing that would make the center of a Lord’s room a death trap and would make WvW as a whole even MORE difficult for Melee builds.

Also.. does Fear operate on a Cap? Even if so.. couldn’t an opposing Mesmer Portal of a group of Necros (Fear Bomb?) break up a Turtle tactic?

Arani.9057:

I run in solo most the time

That doesn’t mean there aren’t other people standing in the AoE that haven’t rendered on your screen.

I don’t really understand why people thinking no aoe cap would just destroy entire armies. We would never get into lord rooms if that was the case – siege has no AOE cap and arrow carts have like a 4 second cooldown with more damage than the Ranger Barrage. Someone please clarify how 5 people could stop a whole army who knew what they were doing eg. invulnerability, portals, blocks, evades, feedback, retaliation etc.

Tell me how many melee you think can make it to the center of a 40 man turtle.

Also, the turtles get constant healing, stability and full boons pretty much.
There are no drawbacks to using this tactic.

But like I said, if aoes end up being too strong, ANET will just have to nerf damage.

Why would they need to raise the AoE cap to fix this problem? Just make it so AoE spells can only hit 5 targets, but not limit it to only the same 5 people in a turtle.

kidbs.8920:

Why would they need to raise the AoE cap to fix this problem? Just make it so AoE spells can only hit 5 targets, but not limit it to only the same 5 people in a turtle.

if 5 people go (let alone die) down in a 40 man turtle, IF the vulnerability wore off by some chance, IF the unlimeted AoE heals didn’t keep them up, a 40 man zerg will insta rez.

The problem with the guys whining about turtle is that the ones making the turtle are organized on voice communication, while the randoms are just getting wiped by them.

Then the randoms come and QQ on the forum about it.

While actual organized counter turtle teams have proven to do a great job against the turtle.
But only the ones that didn’t assume that the turtle is a bain/skilless bunch of players like these forum whiners accuse them to be, because the ones that did just died as easily as the randoms.

People get wiped by an organized team, and then they cry that it’s cheat/hax/exploit, because their bunch of randoms couldn’t organize a counter fast enough through chat vs voice communication and solid leadership

Arani.9057:

kidbs.8920:

Why would they need to raise the AoE cap to fix this problem? Just make it so AoE spells can only hit 5 targets, but not limit it to only the same 5 people in a turtle.

if 5 people go (let alone die) down in a 40 man turtle, IF the vulnerability wore off by some chance, IF the unlimeted AoE heals didn’t keep them up, a 40 man zerg will insta rez.

Well now you’re talking about the shouts and buffs not having a limit which is another issue. Also collision detection is about the only thing that will fully prevent the problems. I for one wouldn’t mind having that in the game.

Well it’s the first i’d heard of it and it only took me a very short time to figure that ballista’s would counter this turtle formation. So…. build ballista’s?

kidbs.8920:

Arani.9057:

kidbs.8920:

Why would they need to raise the AoE cap to fix this problem? Just make it so AoE spells can only hit 5 targets, but not limit it to only the same 5 people in a turtle.

if 5 people go (let alone die) down in a 40 man turtle, IF the vulnerability wore off by some chance, IF the unlimeted AoE heals didn’t keep them up, a 40 man zerg will insta rez.

Well now you’re talking about the shouts and buffs not having a limit which is another issue. Also collision detection is about the only thing that will fully prevent the problems. I for one wouldn’t mind having that in the game.

This is EXACTLY what this discussion topic (and about 4 others currently on forums) is about. The storm of AoE limit, Buff/Shout NON-limits then add in Portal mobility to boot in some cases.

Destroyer.1306:

My solution is to remove 5-man AoE cap for everywhere except lord’s room. The door crowd will have to rely on their allied AoE’rs to protect them — and more reliance on catas from a distance.

This is a wrong solution, cuz if they did this, everybody will just turtle in the lord room and nobody will be able to cap anything. There was a fight in JQ BL bay where the turtle was able to defend attacks from the other two servers CONSTANTLY, until they lost their (seemingly) only mesmer. No mesmer, turtle can’t move, you get cata’d to death.

Snow Aeth.1937:

The problem with the guys whining about turtle is that the ones making the turtle are organized on voice communication, while the randoms are just getting wiped by them.

Then the randoms come and QQ on the forum about it.

While actual organized counter turtle teams have proven to do a great job against the turtle.
But only the ones that didn’t assume that the turtle is a bain/skilless bunch of players like these forum whiners accuse them to be, because the ones that did just died as easily as the randoms.

Generalize more. It’s much easier to form a successful turtle than it is to bust it up. The risk versus reward for using a turtling tactic is way high on the reward end of the scale. It takes less brains to turtle than it does to actually react to taking damage.

I am on a community teamspeak server that has a high amount of coordination and knows how to bust a turtle and I still recognize it for the problem that it creates and how it ruins intended gameplay.

Katsumoto.9452:

Well it’s the first i’d heard of it and it only took me a very short time to figure that ballista’s would counter this turtle formation. So…. build ballista’s?

Stability

Maniac.5163:

I don’t really understand why people thinking no aoe cap would just destroy entire armies. We would never get into lord rooms if that was the case – siege has no AOE cap and arrow carts have like a 4 second cooldown with more damage than the Ranger Barrage. Someone please clarify how 5 people could stop a whole army who knew what they were doing eg. invulnerability, portals, blocks, evades, feedback, retaliation etc.

5-6 arrow carts hitting the exact same spot at the exact same time should decimate the target. How often has this tactic been used though? I personally haven’t ever seen it happen or even saw it be attempted.. but I don’t play with an Organized WvW Guild on Vent/Mumble/Skype. By the same token, I’ve never ever seen the Turtle tactic used either.

Regardless, raising the cap on the AoE isn’t the solution. Limiting the heals and coding the engine to allow for different attacks to hit a different set of 5 targets would be a better fix (assuming all the extra calculations necessary wouldn’t bog down performance).

Arani.9057:

kidbs.8920:

Arani.9057:

kidbs.8920:

Why would they need to raise the AoE cap to fix this problem? Just make it so AoE spells can only hit 5 targets, but not limit it to only the same 5 people in a turtle.

if 5 people go (let alone die) down in a 40 man turtle, IF the vulnerability wore off by some chance, IF the unlimeted AoE heals didn’t keep them up, a 40 man zerg will insta rez.

Well now you’re talking about the shouts and buffs not having a limit which is another issue. Also collision detection is about the only thing that will fully prevent the problems. I for one wouldn’t mind having that in the game.

This is EXACTLY what this discussion topic (and about 4 others currently on forums) is about. The storm of AoE limit, Buff/Shout NON-limits then add in Portal mobility to boot in some cases.

I’m not disagreeing, I just think that fixing the AoE damage issue would eliminate a larger portion of the overall problem. Even with shouts hitting everyone, people can’t stay alive indefinitely if everyone is taking AoE damage. Right now that’s not the case so it’s easy to keep a few people alive and rez them because most people are taking no damage at all.

Jest.9276:

Maniac.5163:

I don’t really understand why people thinking no aoe cap would just destroy entire armies. We would never get into lord rooms if that was the case – siege has no AOE cap and arrow carts have like a 4 second cooldown with more damage than the Ranger Barrage. Someone please clarify how 5 people could stop a whole army who knew what they were doing eg. invulnerability, portals, blocks, evades, feedback, retaliation etc.

5-6 arrow carts hitting the exact same spot at the exact same time should decimate the target. How often has this tactic been used though? I personally haven’t ever seen it happen or even saw it be attempted.. but I don’t play with an Organized WvW Guild on Vent/Mumble/Skype. By the same token, I’ve never ever seen the Turtle tactic used either.

Regardless, raising the cap on the AoE isn’t the solution. Limiting the heals and coding the engine to allow for different attacks to hit a different set of 5 targets would be a better fix (assuming all the extra calculations necessary wouldn’t bog down performance).

The problem is you don’t always have the time or resources to set up enough siege weapons to deal with a group. So relying on siege weapons isn’t the answer to the problem.

CrimsonHandHiro.9574:

Arrow Carts/Ballistas, Stack done. See you in the next cheese and whine thread!

Now watch the portal go from arrow cart to arrow cart because they have invulnerability and stability.

kidbs.8920:

Jest.9276:

Maniac.5163:

I don’t really understand why people thinking no aoe cap would just destroy entire armies. We would never get into lord rooms if that was the case – siege has no AOE cap and arrow carts have like a 4 second cooldown with more damage than the Ranger Barrage. Someone please clarify how 5 people could stop a whole army who knew what they were doing eg. invulnerability, portals, blocks, evades, feedback, retaliation etc.

5-6 arrow carts hitting the exact same spot at the exact same time should decimate the target. How often has this tactic been used though? I personally haven’t ever seen it happen or even saw it be attempted.. but I don’t play with an Organized WvW Guild on Vent/Mumble/Skype. By the same token, I’ve never ever seen the Turtle tactic used either.

Regardless, raising the cap on the AoE isn’t the solution. Limiting the heals and coding the engine to allow for different attacks to hit a different set of 5 targets would be a better fix (assuming all the extra calculations necessary wouldn’t bog down performance).

The problem is you don’t always have the time or resources to set up enough siege weapons to deal with a group. So relying on siege weapons isn’t the answer to the problem.

I’m not saying seige is the answer. I’m saying capping the boon/buff/heal is a better solution.

@kidbs
So what exactly do you do when 40+ non stacked enemies come to your door?
You run into them and manage to kill them all?
You don’t use siege to shoot them?

40 non stacked enemies are much more mobile than a stack.

The fact that you fail at counter just means your group is less organized, there is no buts.
Your server attempted turtle tactic with your supposed strongest guild WM, and they got wiped.
Oh yes turtle tactic is so easy, yet when you do it you die?
And when we do it, we’r invincible?

Just stop fooling yourself already and learn to adapt like the groups that succeed in countering do.

And if you got no time/resources to set up siege, it means you’r either outmanned/outplayed.
That is not because the enemy stacked up, but because your side is lacking.

LOL, I’m laughing that this thread has people in it talking about how “If AOE didn’t have a limit, small groups could wipe out big groups with coordinated AOE” and my response would be, Welcome to DAOC for 10+ Years.

Small groups could easily destroy LARGER groups with ease..And that was balanced… Because you could counter it by not stacking up like the current tactic. You spread out and overwhelm them instead of stacking.

The second it becomes more viable to stack in an MMO to avoid AOE the second combat can no longer be taken seriously and the game itself is reduced to joke status.

Choke Points should be deadly to zergs…. That’s Why they’re Choke Points

AOE’s should be deadly to zergs… That’s why you spread out..

WARs problem were nothing related to the Bright Wizard AOEing being uncapped, It was related to the Mechanics of the Bright Wizard simply out dpsing everything else in the game with AOE’s…That they could spam.. constantly…

But yea.. this game is a joke till they fix he turtling.

You people really didn’t expect this WvW game to last very long did you? No one has made a PvP game that the cheesy guilds can’t hack and destroy.

What happens is what we are already seeing, the casuals slowly stop playing, balance is never found, and soon most WvW maps will be ghost maps with a few hard core PvPers in them.

Snow Aeth.1937:

@kidbs
So what exactly do you do when 40+ non stacked enemies come to your door?
You run into them and manage to kill them all?
You don’t use siege to shoot them?

40 non stacked enemies are much more mobile than a stack.

The fact that you fail at counter just means your group is less organized, there is no buts.
Your server attempted turtle tactic with your supposed strongest guild WM, and they got wiped.
Oh yes turtle tactic is so easy, yet when you do it you die?
And when we do it, we’r invincible?

Just stop fooling yourself already and learn to adapt like the groups that succeed in countering do.

And if you got no time/resources to set up siege, it means you’r either outmanned/outplayed.
That is not because the enemy stacked up, but because your side is lacking.

we are talking about a group that does this and exclusively portals from spot to spot so this statement is incorrect. This isnt about the counter … it’s been “countered” its about the risk vs reward of turtleport vs counters

Snow Aeth.1937:

@kidbs
So what exactly do you do when 40+ non stacked enemies come to your door?
You run into them and manage to kill them all?
You don’t use siege to shoot them?

40 non stacked enemies are much more mobile than a stack.

The fact that you fail at counter just means your group is less organized, there is no buts.
Your server attempted turtle tactic with your supposed strongest guild WM, and they got wiped.
Oh yes turtle tactic is so easy, yet when you do it you die?
And when we do it, we’r invincible?

Just stop fooling yourself already and learn to adapt like the groups that succeed in countering do.

And if you got no time/resources to set up siege, it means you’r either outmanned/outplayed.
That is not because the enemy stacked up, but because your side is lacking.

Ok I’ll bite for just a moment…. I’m guessing you’re one of the Trashgate players? WM isn’t the only organized guild on SBI. NoPe is another that had already figured out how to bust your turtling tactics. As far as the siege building, it’s difficult when you’re being double-teamed for 12 hours straight and you can’t get enough supply or time to build it. Even during that period we still managed to pull to first place. It wasn’t until you guys starting hacking orbs that people said screw it and left the match. You guys don’t “outplay” anyone.

Regardless, this thread is about turtling and not specific matches so keep your trash in the other BG kitten threads and not this one. There is no way A-Net intended to neuter AoE damage in this way. If they did, then it would apply to siege weapons as well. It’s clearly a bug that needs to be addressed.

Xsorus.2507:

LOL, I’m laughing that this thread has people in it talking about how “If AOE didn’t have a limit, small groups could wipe out big groups with coordinated AOE” and my response would be, Welcome to DAOC for 10+ Years.

Small groups could easily destroy LARGER groups with ease..And that was balanced… Because you could counter it by not stacking up like the current tactic. You spread out and overwhelm them instead of stacking.

The second it becomes more viable to stack in an MMO to avoid AOE the second combat can no longer be taken seriously and the game itself is reduced to joke status.

Choke Points should be deadly to zergs…. That’s Why they’re Choke Points

AOE’s should be deadly to zergs… That’s why you spread out..

WARs problem were nothing related to the Bright Wizard AOEing being uncapped, It was related to the Mechanics of the Bright Wizard simply out dpsing everything else in the game with AOE’s…That they could spam.. constantly…

But yea.. this game is a joke till they fix he turtling.

Exactly. The current mechanics are counter-intuitive to anything that remotely makes sense. It takes more skill to avoid AoE and battle through chokepoints than it does to group up and stay cozy and safe.

I hear that siege such as arrow carts and ballistae ignore the five person cap aoe damage.

Nohonor.5382:

I hear that siege such as arrow carts and ballistae ignore the five person cap aoe damage.

they do but they don’t ignore invulnerability or stability

In the last 2 weeks we used stack against two different opponents in nearly identical situations: defending Bay keep lord room last stand, enemies coming through breached wall. Against Darkhaven group we last 20mins and wipe them. They return with even more people and actually build counters to stack and we die in 20mins. Against Sea of Sorrows (PRX guild) they immediately have people die near the stack to spot and have several siege built up (several ballista and one catapult) aimed directly at the stack. Result: total stack wipe within 1min.

It’s almost as if they knew what they were doing and prepared a battle plan ahead of time! Shocking.

Can someone enighten me as to whether or not siege like ballistas and arrow carts are affected by this cap?

It should have been obvious that capping aoe damage at 5 targets while not capping aoe buffs and heals, would lead to situations like this.