Guild Wars 2

Ender.3508:

Can someone enighten me as to whether or not siege like ballistas and arrow carts are affected by this cap?

No they do not follow the AoE cap but they do follow Invulnerability and stability rules.

Xsorus.2507:

LOL, I’m laughing that this thread has people in it talking about how “If AOE didn’t have a limit, small groups could wipe out big groups with coordinated AOE” and my response would be, Welcome to DAOC for 10+ Years.

Small groups could easily destroy LARGER groups with ease..And that was balanced… Because you could counter it by not stacking up like the current tactic. You spread out and overwhelm them instead of stacking.

The second it becomes more viable to stack in an MMO to avoid AOE the second combat can no longer be taken seriously and the game itself is reduced to joke status.

Choke Points should be deadly to zergs…. That’s Why they’re Choke Points

AOE’s should be deadly to zergs… That’s why you spread out..

WARs problem were nothing related to the Bright Wizard AOEing being uncapped, It was related to the Mechanics of the Bright Wizard simply out dpsing everything else in the game with AOE’s…That they could spam.. constantly…

But yea.. this game is a joke till they fix he turtling.

So DAoC’s RvR was comprised of Castles, Towers, and Camps that are by the nature of their design, filled with chokepoints? Or was it more of open maps with choke points in key places as you fought over possession of Relics.

I have the feeling it was the latter. AoE being uncapped and used at Chokes is fine provided that the enemy can realistically overcome the tactic and progress. To progress in this game you’re literally forced through multiple chokepoints in Towers, Keeps, and the Castle. Spreading isn’t an option in taking those and you can’t progress to win without being able to take those.

You’re comparing Apples to Oranges when you consider the goal of the gameplay.

Jest.9276:

Xsorus.2507:

LOL, I’m laughing that this thread has people in it talking about how “If AOE didn’t have a limit, small groups could wipe out big groups with coordinated AOE” and my response would be, Welcome to DAOC for 10+ Years.

Small groups could easily destroy LARGER groups with ease..And that was balanced… Because you could counter it by not stacking up like the current tactic. You spread out and overwhelm them instead of stacking.

The second it becomes more viable to stack in an MMO to avoid AOE the second combat can no longer be taken seriously and the game itself is reduced to joke status.

Choke Points should be deadly to zergs…. That’s Why they’re Choke Points

AOE’s should be deadly to zergs… That’s why you spread out..

WARs problem were nothing related to the Bright Wizard AOEing being uncapped, It was related to the Mechanics of the Bright Wizard simply out dpsing everything else in the game with AOE’s…That they could spam.. constantly…

But yea.. this game is a joke till they fix he turtling.

So DAoC’s RvR was comprised of Castles, Towers, and Camps that are by the nature of their design, filled with chokepoints? Or was it more of open maps with choke points in key places as you fought over possession of Relics.

I have the feeling it was the latter. AoE being uncapped and used at Chokes is fine provided that the enemy can realistically overcome the tactic and progress. To progress in this game you’re literally forced through multiple chokepoints in Towers, Keeps, and the Castle. Spreading isn’t an option in taking those and you can’t progress to win without being able to take those.

You’re comparing Apples to Oranges when you consider the goal of the gameplay.

Choke Points in keeps/gates/bridges/towers …

When moving out in open field you had to worry bout 8mans roaming around who would mez ball your zerg and kill you in 3 seconds.

It’s why people panned in that game..Cause if you didn’t spread on inc you were dead.

Choke Points exist to allow smaller groups to take out out larger forces.

Smaller Groups should have the chance to absolutely brutalize people who aren’t paying attention to their surrounding.

It’s game is no different from WvW..Only Anet has decided to dumb down their game so that simpletons can compete…

Be it removing class roles/lowering the amount of abilities/or capping the chance to be hit by AOE, it’s designed around being a sad sad toy version of Actual Realm vs Realm.

You might enjoy this kind of combat, I on the other hand find the dumbing down of games to be insulting.

Ballista and Arrow carts do not give a kitten about stability either, as they dont knock people down in the first place.

Invunerability is another issue, and i think anet will correct this by making sure defensive healing abilities are 5 capped like offensive abilities, especially shots.

Xsorus.2507:

Choke Points in keeps/gates/bridges/towers …

When moving out in open field you had to worry bout 8mans roaming around who would mez ball your zerg and kill you in 3 seconds.

It’s why people panned in that game..Cause if you didn’t spread on inc you were dead.

Choke Points exist to allow smaller groups to take out out larger forces.

Smaller Groups should have the chance to absolutely brutalize people who aren’t paying attention to their surrounding.

It’s game is no different from WvW..Only Anet has decided to dumb down their game so that simpletons can compete…

Be it removing class roles/lowering the amount of abilities/or capping the chance to be hit by AOE, it’s designed around being a sad sad toy version of Actual Realm vs Realm.

You might enjoy this kind of combat, I on the other hand find the dumbing down of games to be insulting.

So what was the goal of RvR in DAoC? Was it not to simply control the Relics so your faction would have the buffs to kill the other faction more efficiently and raise your Realm Rank faster to become more powerful.. etc.

In GW2’s WvW, the goal is to control the Keeps, Towers, Camps, etc.. for the point ticks to win the match and move up in rank as a Server.

DAoC was about killing as much as possible. GW2 is about holding points to win the match. The goals are different and thus the core gameplay is different.

Let AOE jump beyond 5 only IF there are others close by. There are plenty of abilities that can jump to other targets… let the effects jump to peeps that are very close to each other…1-2m or less.

You get the idea. This would stop folks from stacking and force them to spread out a little; but it wouldn’t be overwhelming…

http://i.imgur.com/WZdHr.jpg

The future of GW2 PVP unless this is fixed.

No more strategy or tactics required.
Step 1. Get 50 players.
Step 2. Stand on the commander.
Step 3. Win.

Tried for today, really uber easy mode and rofl stomp any enemys whatever they do. 4 catapult don’t do jack dmg when we attacking door.

Catapults are inefficent at killing mobs.

Using catapults is so yesterday in defending doors. Arrow carts are 20 times more effective.

Three arrowcarts behind a door will force the mob to back off or die.

Whats cheaper? 3 arrow carts or 2 catapults
What does more damage over time? 3 arrow carts or 2 catapults.

Answer is always arrow carts. IF they put down 4 catapults they could have had 6 arrow carts instead which would have eaten a mob of 50 tightly packed together for breakfast and spat out a nice bag pile to the siege operators.

Not that I should be divulging that to my enemies,

keep using catapults to defend doors guys, so effective :rollseyes:

You should get a few engi’s organized with coated bullets trait, turtles will crumble under that if they really are sticking too close to eachother, 50 players inside eachother= 50 hits + 50 explosions=lotsa bags o loot. Not to mention turtles are vulnerable to siege. Im pretty sure there are plenty of ways to counter turt, and like coated bullets, not all attacks have a hit cap.

The future of GW2 PVP unless this is fixed.
No more strategy or tactics required.
Step 1. Get 50 players.
Step 2. Stand on the commander.
Step 3. Win

Also equals instant death if you use your brians to find a way to counter.

turtling can be countered by more ppl aoe the same spot and also seige eqpt. Increasing aoe cap imo will make AOE king of the battlefield. Too much AOE is bad for any game period it doesnt take any skill to spam AOE. But turtling needs coordination and can be countered by coordination by the opposition.

^do you honestly think that’s what poeple want to do while playing wvw?

there’s nothing dynamic or remotely fun in the strategy you’re talking about and it should be fixed or removed completely form the game because that’s the kind of crap that make people quit the game.

Jest.9276:

Xsorus.2507:

Choke Points in keeps/gates/bridges/towers …

When moving out in open field you had to worry bout 8mans roaming around who would mez ball your zerg and kill you in 3 seconds.

It’s why people panned in that game..Cause if you didn’t spread on inc you were dead.

Choke Points exist to allow smaller groups to take out out larger forces.

Smaller Groups should have the chance to absolutely brutalize people who aren’t paying attention to their surrounding.

It’s game is no different from WvW..Only Anet has decided to dumb down their game so that simpletons can compete…

Be it removing class roles/lowering the amount of abilities/or capping the chance to be hit by AOE, it’s designed around being a sad sad toy version of Actual Realm vs Realm.

You might enjoy this kind of combat, I on the other hand find the dumbing down of games to be insulting.

So what was the goal of RvR in DAoC? Was it not to simply control the Relics so your faction would have the buffs to kill the other faction more efficiently and raise your Realm Rank faster to become more powerful.. etc.

In GW2’s WvW, the goal is to control the Keeps, Towers, Camps, etc.. for the point ticks to win the match and move up in rank as a Server.

DAoC was about killing as much as possible. GW2 is about holding points to win the match. The goals are different and thus the core gameplay is different.

The Goal of Holding keeps/towers in DAOC is the same as this game, More power…Teleports (Depending on NF vs Old frontiers)…Where do you think the Orbs in this game came from..They’re DAOC relics..

In fact the difference between the two games is Realm Rank vs World Ranking…

You arguing against mass AOE at chokepoints because the goal of this game is to hold keeps and such for points is silly.. Because no one in DAOC said “Gee, we don’t need any keeps or towers..They’re useless” you want to hold onto your structures in both games.

DAOC just allowed you to do it more successfully if you were a smaller group,

It certainly didn’t reward bad players who stack and bash the number 1 key over and over again. You had to be on your toe’s in DAOC, or you died..This game is rewarding the opposite.

Siege is the obvious counter but it isn’t really clear you shold be required to build siege just to beat people who are clumped up in one place not moving at all because of questionable AOE implementation.

Either boons and heals need to be limited to 5 targets or aoe needs to be unlimited. I’d vote for the former probably.

Jabtangs.9251:

lol at these posts saying aoe skills = no brainer, turtling = hard stuff

Many organized guilds/groups stack up, not just in this game. It’s a tactic so everyone stays together in tight formation and pushes most often, and anyone can do it. You can also coordinate a group of 40 people to drop aoe’s on that spot and kill a bunch of them, even with a 5 person cap. Anything more would be way too much. You shouldn’t expect to be able to AoE that big of a force with just a couple people and expect to kill/scatter all of them. You can also coordinate a mesmer/guardian pull into the no escape bubble or aoe knockback to seperate some of them if needed before dropping AoE. Being unorganized isn’t the key to winning.

Most positive AOE is already limited to 5 allies.

Its just a matter of anet fixing the skills that are not.

The people I see defending this tactic, or saying there are counters, either don’t understand how it works or are hoping it doesn’t get fixed. It’s an exploit, plain and simple. I’d explain it, but I don’t want more people using this stupid “tactic”. ANet should know exactly where the problem is by now and how to fix it (aoe cap removal and collision detection are NOT the ways).

A handful of arrow carts against 50 people? please….. I’ve stood with 50 people in the rain of a half dozen arrow carts and a ton of other aoe, but the group understood the stacking mechanics (exploits), maybe a couple would go into downed once in awhile but would get insta-rezzed by the hoarde in the less than a couple minutes it took 3 rams and 2 golems to chew through a “reinforced” gate.

Go ahead and do it till it gets fixed, it’s the new meta or whatever, just don’t delude yourself that it’s some sort of tactics when it’s really just exploiting a design loophole.

Cyricus.2981:

Many organized guilds/groups stack up, not just in this game. It’s a tactic so everyone stays together in tight formation and pushes most often, and anyone can do it. You can also coordinate a group of 40 people to drop aoe’s on that spot and kill a bunch of them, even with a 5 person cap.

It’s not about formation tactics, sure, moving as a group is valid. You can coordinate a group of whatever to drop aoe on them, if their stack is organized and not just a random clump of players you will not be able to kill enough of them to make a difference. the best you could do is stack also and neither stack could kill the other. Again, I’d explain how, but I’m not really trying to promote an exploit.

Just a quick question, is using a catapult on the inside of a tower and firing it at the doors so the AoE splash hits the other side a valid tactic, cheese or an exploit?

valid, but as I said, arrow carts are more effective at getting things off doors.

@Thrash you are saying that you can make your group invurnable such that 8,000 dps cannot kill your group?

Is it the guardian invunerability and properly pulsing it that you are exploiting?

Yorkie.8950:

Just a quick question, is using a catapult on the inside of a tower and firing it at the doors so the AoE splash hits the other side a valid tactic, cheese or an exploit?

Maybe a bit from all three categories. Unlike the clumping exploit, there are several effective counters (including just setting rams at their max range instead of dang near inside the door like people seem to enjoy).

Draygo.9473:

valid, but as I said, arrow carts are more effective at getting things off doors.

@Thrash you are saying that you can make your group invurnable such that 8,000 dps cannot kill your group?

Yes, but like I said, I don’t really want to explain how, sorry. Numbers that high would require a large, coordinated clump, but it could be done.

Is it the guardian invunerability and properly pulsing it that you are exploiting?

No, but that may help also, any defensive abilities will add survivability of course

Why are we even discussing this? Taking away the AoE cap is absolutely absurd with the amount of red circles that go with laying siege to a keep. There isn’t enough dodge in the world to survive as an attacker and defending a keep will mean you have a handful of glass cannon AoE classes that lay waste to entire zergs.

However turtling is one of the worst things to happen to WvW since god knows when. Running in a zerg currently means you run as a blob untill you see the enemy. Hold still, send out mesmer to portal a bit forward, try to hurt as much stuff as you can or die trying, rinse, repeat.

I really just want to see a fix for the culling issue. This would fix so much crap that is currently ruining WvW.

With or without cap, AoE would not be different. It is extremely rare to have more than 5 enemy in your aoe. If people are stupid enough to stay in aoe, even with cap, they would die either way.

The only use to the cap is to make that turtle strategy working.

You can’t solve this simply with no AOE cap.
A choke point, Danelon for example, could be held off with five to ten high damage AOE’s fired in unison.
With the cap, and 10 or more people zerging that choke point, most would get through.
Without an AOE cap, hardly any would get through because they would all take 15k+ damage + bleeds, conditions etc, immediately.
You can’t set up siege to target these AOE’rs, because your siege won’t go through the small entrances with AOE’rs either side, out of LOS.

You would have to lower the damage of AOE’s and that would be a balancing nightmare across the classes, affecting far more than just AOE’s.

Perhaps a better approach would be to make players more vulnerable to AOE damage when they are very close together?
That could be achieved by making AOE’s hit a percentage of players, depending upon their concentration.
Still a balancing issue, but not as complicated as a gamewide, blanket reduction to AOE damage.

Jacklo.4230 “Perhaps a better approach would be to make players more vulnerable to AOE damage when they are very close together?”
————————————
I kind of like this idea…

They should add a claustrophobic effect, making all players run away from the concentrated scent of ten norns armpits at close range.

But seriously AoE cap limit makes sense, theres no reason my grenade realistically blow right through 5 people in heavy enchanted platemail. But I also like Jacklo’s idead of bonus damage to Turts.

Clever use of game mechanics ? you can do the same ?
Anet made AoE cap at 5 targets, otherwise it would be to devastating.
Using AoE heals + stacking at 1 spot = clever use of that cap.

Why not try some other tactic to break the turtle? Isn’t it great that WvW is not only about more number and more dps wins the day?

You all know you can’t beat a turtle with pure zerg aoe dps. Just because you don’t know (and probably haven’t even tried to find) a counter doesn’t mean there isn’t one.

Xsorus.2507:

Jest.9276:

Xsorus.2507:

LOL, I’m laughing that this thread has people in it talking about how “If AOE didn’t have a limit, small groups could wipe out big groups with coordinated AOE” and my response would be, Welcome to DAOC for 10+ Years.

Small groups could easily destroy LARGER groups with ease..And that was balanced… Because you could counter it by not stacking up like the current tactic. You spread out and overwhelm them instead of stacking.

The second it becomes more viable to stack in an MMO to avoid AOE the second combat can no longer be taken seriously and the game itself is reduced to joke status.

Choke Points should be deadly to zergs…. That’s Why they’re Choke Points

AOE’s should be deadly to zergs… That’s why you spread out..

WARs problem were nothing related to the Bright Wizard AOEing being uncapped, It was related to the Mechanics of the Bright Wizard simply out dpsing everything else in the game with AOE’s…That they could spam.. constantly…

But yea.. this game is a joke till they fix he turtling.

So DAoC’s RvR was comprised of Castles, Towers, and Camps that are by the nature of their design, filled with chokepoints? Or was it more of open maps with choke points in key places as you fought over possession of Relics.

I have the feeling it was the latter. AoE being uncapped and used at Chokes is fine provided that the enemy can realistically overcome the tactic and progress. To progress in this game you’re literally forced through multiple chokepoints in Towers, Keeps, and the Castle. Spreading isn’t an option in taking those and you can’t progress to win without being able to take those.

You’re comparing Apples to Oranges when you consider the goal of the gameplay.

Choke Points in keeps/gates/bridges/towers …

When moving out in open field you had to worry bout 8mans roaming around who would mez ball your zerg and kill you in 3 seconds.

It’s why people panned in that game..Cause if you didn’t spread on inc you were dead.

Choke Points exist to allow smaller groups to take out out larger forces.

Smaller Groups should have the chance to absolutely brutalize people who aren’t paying attention to their surrounding.

It’s game is no different from WvW..Only Anet has decided to dumb down their game so that simpletons can compete…

Be it removing class roles/lowering the amount of abilities/or capping the chance to be hit by AOE, it’s designed around being a sad sad toy version of Actual Realm vs Realm.

You might enjoy this kind of combat, I on the other hand find the dumbing down of games to be insulting.

Dude how do you think we started turtling ? Cause we got zerged by BIG none skill guilds 24/7. Numbers and numbers alone won matches, so we came up with strategies to overcome numbers. There are counters to the turtle just like the turtle can counter numbers so now stop crying.

Let me read the future for your guys…
Anet will remove the AoE cap but also Reduce the AoE radius and Dmg..

Sorry ppl but that’s what will happen you don’t get something for nothing

Rukis.6571:

Let me read the future for your guys…
Anet will remove the AoE cap but also Reduce the AoE radius and Dmg..

Sorry ppl but that’s what will happen you don’t get something for nothing

Maybe they will, maybe not, but honestly who cares. There will be new tactics and those who will be on loosing side will come here again and call everyone cheater/exploiter/etc.

Yesterday I fought against FIRE guild (I’m on BG, don’t remember where they are). They tried turtle/portal tactics. We used counters (not sieges, just character skills) against them and they died many times, BUT … They tried, they were learning by failing and it was fun on both sides I guess.

It’s really shame that instead of trying to find a counter some of you come here (and not just this thread) to QQ like a kids. Honestly, grow up!

Well if removing AoE cap is a problem for some people (IMHO, it has pros and cons, ie. more dodging skills while too devastating AoE damage from Ele), why not just simply
Cap unlimited healing spells to a limit of 5 .

If damage AoE spells hit 5, shouldnt heals too? It would only be fair since Dungeon instances and TPVP you only have maximum of 5 anyway. Why should healing spells heal more than what a damage spells can do?

I don’t think it is intended. But I also don’t think they should be banned. ArenaNet needs to fix it.

I can understand that removing the cap is a problem. But having it as it is now seems to be a problem too.

Why not remove the cap and make damage per player lower if there are mokittengets that get hit(only until a low cap for damage that it does not go to 0 or 1 if there are 100 players getting hit but will still be above a cap and be in a range between min – max and at max if 5 or less players get hit)? Then everyone gets hit but you need more attackers to kill more people which is totally okay.

Since when has there be an aoe, gtaoe, pbaoe cap on the number of ennemies hit by those skills, being introduced in Warhammer?
I think I’ve missed that patch.

Damage and stacking was nerfed, for sure, but when the tooltip says all players, it’s still all players.

Back to topic
Removing the cap could be a solution but a lot of factors need to be analysed by Anet I presume. (stacking aoe damage, damage from siege, how it works out during tower/keep siege/defense)

Turtling is probably the only situation where aoe healing becomes an issue. Otherwise in all other situations it’s actually very weak compared to the amount of damage being ditched out. Also the normal, non turtling meta-game in GW2 makes it so that it’s a skill on its own being able to spread out some decent healing, but that’s something for another topic I presume.

Siege has no target limit for their AoE. Whip out some arrowcarts/cata’s/balistae and enjoy scattering their entire zerg in mere seconds.

Terrahero.9358:

Siege has no target limit for their AoE. Whip out some arrowcarts/cata’s/balistae and enjoy scattering their entire zerg in mere seconds.

That is if the arrow cart damage can overcome the healing capability of a zerg which has no cap plus the guardian skills which makes the zerg immune to damage.

This is my solution: Cap the AoE at a certain dmg. Take away caps. Easy to balance, since you can just take the average dmg that class would do against 5 targets, then just make that the cap. Sure, the dmg is gonna be 1/2 on 10 people, 1/4 on 20 ppl etc, but with enough ppl, it wouldn’t matter much.

AoE cap should not be removed because then if you successfully coordinated with your friends to all drop an AoE in the exact same spot at just the right time you could actually win strategically against a larger opponent who has minimal team coordination and is just zerging and all standing in the same spot. Wait…. why is that a bad thing?

DAOC was a great example of how AOE can work without a cap………..and it proves that having a cap is invaluable.

You didn’t have to be smarter. You didn’t have to play better and you weren’t more skilled than your opponent. You where in ventrillo(or teamspeak, people still used it in the way back machine).

Some guy played a healer that had an AE stun. A couple, maybe more guys played spiritmasters, and maybe you had a couple of warriors with guard on them(guard would block for the recipient of the buff).

Healer ran in room, dropped the AE stun, Spiritmasters PBAOE’d the whole room down so fast that everyone was dead before the first person could even whine about it(I played shaman, the other integral class to tag along for this ride, and there where times we’d snag 50 kills before the animation on my disease finished).

The days of games balancing to make this possible are over, and good riddance.

Turtle is a fad. A gimmick. Give it two weeks and it will become VERY situation at best. There are half a dozen ways to counter it.

That being said, I hate the turtle. I don’t even hate the zergs as much as I hate the turtle. And when I am part of breaking one up, I dance on the dead. Cowards.

Thrym.9436:

DAOC was a great example of how AOE can work without a cap………..and it proves that having a cap is invaluable.

You didn’t have to be smarter. You didn’t have to play better and you weren’t more skilled than your opponent. You where in ventrillo(or teamspeak, people still used it in the way back machine).

Some guy played a healer that had an AE stun. A couple, maybe more guys played spiritmasters, and maybe you had a couple of warriors with guard on them(guard would block for the recipient of the buff).

Healer ran in room, dropped the AE stun, Spiritmasters PBAOE’d the whole room down so fast that everyone was dead before the first person could even whine about it(I played shaman, the other integral class to tag along for this ride, and there where times we’d snag 50 kills before the animation on my disease finished).

The days of games balancing to make this possible are over, and good riddance.

First one of the big problems in your description was casting speed, not necessarily just the AoE. Second, the turtle favors even less coordination and the zerg, personally I would rather reward the group of five charging 50, then the reverse.

This game needs zerg busting tools.

^
Siege weapons
No target limited aoes (yes there are, go figure out for yourself which ones, yes there are ranged ones too)

“Siege is the counter” is practically valid but conceptually stupid. Why should siege bypass the aoe limit? If the limit makes sense it makes sense for siege too. It’s just a dumb inconsistency, just like AOE damage being capped at 5 but AOE heals not being capped is a dumb inconsistency.

Why does everyone act like turtling is unbeatable? Turtling is just a valid tactic that i think improves the WvW in general. All it does is require you to get a group together to counter the opponents group. Isn’t that the point of WvW? Whoever has the best the organization should win over whoever doesn’t. Turtling is just one such strategy that LETS guilds get together and defeat a zerg of 40 people with 20. Isn’t that a good thing? Plus an organized guild has multiple ways they can disassemble a turtling group, so if people start relying on only that then they will still lose to superior organization. Just use your imagination. Turtling depends on heals and staying together. How do you counter healing and split people up? Honestly how is WvW not working as intended? WvW is just evolving and people are complaining because they want to win without doing any work.

Jest.9276:

So DAoC’s RvR was comprised of Castles, Towers, and Camps that are by the nature of their design, filled with chokepoints? Or was it more of open maps with choke points in key places as you fought over possession of Relics.

I have the feeling it was the latter. AoE being uncapped and used at Chokes is fine provided that the enemy can realistically overcome the tactic and progress. To progress in this game you’re literally forced through multiple chokepoints in Towers, Keeps, and the Castle.

There were lots of chokepoints. However AOE in DAOC did less damage, was targetted, and had lengthy casting times. So you couldn’t just rain aoe on an area (they had gtaoe spells, but those had long cooldowns and had miniscule damage and were just for interrupting).

You couldn’t start aoe’ing an area until people were in it. If the enemy team charged in, you could start casting as soon as they were in view and get off a spell or two in the choke point – which hurt the enemy but did not make it impossible to get through.

additionally there were many temporary damage reduction abilities that people would use to get through choke point.

Stacking only helps people revive players. It is intelligent. Most run away afraid to help revive players. It’s like pulling teeth trying to teach players how to play well….

Two evenly matched teams, even if stacking, can kill each other with simple AoE. It hits 5 players randomly. So the evenly matched teams using AoE means multiple AoEs in one spot. Which means 1 player hitting 5 enemies. Since they are evenly matched, AoE will pull down the players quicker than rezzing can happen.

Stacking only protects against small forces, in which case, they don’t need to stack anyway. It’s a non-issue.

Thrym.9436:

DAOC was a great example of how AOE can work without a cap………..and it proves that having a cap is invaluable.

You didn’t have to be smarter. You didn’t have to play better and you weren’t more skilled than your opponent. You where in ventrillo(or teamspeak, people still used it in the way back machine).

Some guy played a healer that had an AE stun. A couple, maybe more guys played spiritmasters, and maybe you had a couple of warriors with guard on them(guard would block for the recipient of the buff).

Healer ran in room, dropped the AE stun, Spiritmasters PBAOE’d the whole room down so fast that everyone was dead before the first person could even whine about it(I played shaman, the other integral class to tag along for this ride, and there where times we’d snag 50 kills before the animation on my disease finished).

The days of games balancing to make this possible are over, and good riddance.

A. AE Stun healers had was incredibly low Radius, you were stupid enough to stand in it’s incredibly small area you deserved to get PBAE down.

B. You had to play smart, If you ran into a zerg and you didn’t Mez ball them and wipe a large number of them, You were probably going to die…DAOC was unforgiving to bad players, hence why someone would complain about AE stun and getting PBAE’d down by it.

nidwin.6731:

Since when has there be an aoe, gtaoe, pbaoe cap on the number of ennemies hit by those skills, being introduced in Warhammer?
I think I’ve missed that patch.

Damage and stacking was nerfed, for sure, but when the tooltip says all players, it’s still all players.

Back to topic
Removing the cap could be a solution but a lot of factors need to be analysed by Anet I presume. (stacking aoe damage, damage from siege, how it works out during tower/keep siege/defense)

Turtling is probably the only situation where aoe healing becomes an issue. Otherwise in all other situations it’s actually very weak compared to the amount of damage being ditched out. Also the normal, non turtling meta-game in GW2 makes it so that it’s a skill on its own being able to spread out some decent healing, but that’s something for another topic I presume.

It didn’t have a cap on number of players hit in Warhammer Online.

You couldn’t stack AOE though, so two people aoeing the same area with the same spell wouldn’t work..This was done to counter BW’s somewhat..

Warhammer Online needed this compared to DAOC though cause it had Collision Detection and DAOC didn’t….

nidwin.6731:

Since when has there be an aoe, gtaoe, pbaoe cap on the number of ennemies hit by those skills, being introduced in Warhammer?
I think I’ve missed that patch.

Damage and stacking was nerfed, for sure, but when the tooltip says all players, it’s still all players.

Back to topic
Removing the cap could be a solution but a lot of factors need to be analysed by Anet I presume. (stacking aoe damage, damage from siege, how it works out during tower/keep siege/defense)

Turtling is probably the only situation where aoe healing becomes an issue. Otherwise in all other situations it’s actually very weak compared to the amount of damage being ditched out. Also the normal, non turtling meta-game in GW2 makes it so that it’s a skill on its own being able to spread out some decent healing, but that’s something for another topic I presume.

The cap was introduced a few months in (10 people I think). Usually you wouldn’t hit that many at once anyway due to collision.

15 AOE limit, making strategy useless and making it so larger zergs always win against strategy.

Making everyone on a stack to move through a DANGEROUS choke point should be devastating if they are hit with AOEs.

Remove the 15 AOE limit and end this stupid tactic, its demolishing pvp and making it so numbers>all.