Guild Wars 2

I don’t really think sPvP in GW2 can work well as an eSports material. It is time to drop it. Alright, I was going to post the kitten ideas, but something came up. BRB

Ryudnard.2587:

I don’t really think sPvP in GW2 can work well as an eSports material. It is time to drop it. Alright, I was going to post the kitten ideas, but something came up. BRB

In before edit

Esports revolves around team size of 5 or under, for the sake of balance.
So if it doesn’t work for spvp in gw2 it ain’t going to work in gw2, period. Wvw itself is too open, too big, and unbalanced to be a legit esport, only esport you can create out of that is gvg’s and you don’t need wvw for that, just a big arena, but that ship has sailed.

The time for WvW eSports was a few years ago and Anet missed that opportunity.

The GvG scene could have become big, but you really need a shoutcaster that knows what’s going on. Sometimes it’s tough to see through all the effects.

And to think what kind of skill balance changes would we see if there was a WvW eSports.

That time has passed, not to sound pessimist but the GvG scene is long gone. Now it’s pretty much the time to play some of the great competitive games out there until GW3 comes along or perhaps a new GW2 expansion if they can turn the expectations upside-down and surprise us.

Gw2 is a pve designed ONLY game, anything put in pvp context is gona end borked up.

They could give the GvG scene like gw1 had, even that they know they cant do that on gw2 since it would contradict how the game is ment to be played and how much broken it would be.

gw1 deserves to become ESL far more than gw2 will ever try to be.

Swamurabi.7890:

The time for WvW eSports was a few years ago and Anet missed that opportunity.

The GvG scene could have become big, but you really need a shoutcaster that knows what’s going on. Sometimes it’s tough to see through all the effects.

And to think what kind of skill balance changes would we see if there was a WvW eSports.

People already found it hard to follow actions in 5v5 PvP.

GvG is even worse. All you see is a cluster of name tags vs a cluster of name tags. Anyone believing it has potential being esports is deluding himself.

I’ve been playing since launch in wvw and it’s pretty sad to see the guilds/legend roamers come and go in addition to what coulda been in this game mode.

There definitely was something there, anet just didn’t capitalize on it and really missed an awesome opportunity.

realm vs realm should be the thing, not gvg or spvp. With all the bangs and flashes nobody can follow anything even in 1vs2, so it doesnt matter.

what does matter is big groups clashing while siege is doing it’s thing. Grand hollywood production and such.

Aeolus.3615:

Gw2 is a pve designed ONLY game, anything put in pvp context is gona end borked up.

Disagree with that, spvp esports was a big part of the initial push for the game and WvW was clearly a major part of endgame in the design phase. That emphasis changed once Colin was made Lead Producer around the time of the launch.

esport rely on people who enjoy a game balance does not matter.

How gw2 exports should be. Like an in-house game in star craft – Sotis.

5 people per team.

all classes and builds available.

choose team leaders.

team leader choose what class to ban from each team choices and max ban would be subject to the parties.

then parties decide what to use and build. strat talk. then play.

2 elimination round depending on how many teams play.

…

if applied in gvg e sports, possible a skill tab on the left or right should record the skills used and damage on whom so the shout casters can report based on the engage.

possibly 10v10 at most. or 15v15 in the extreme

So 10 to 15 players play. choose team leader. leaders talk and decide builds to ban. choose from remaining classes. decide strat and play.

the banning of builds is needed to balance out the game play.

Ryudnard.2587:

BRB

morrolan.9608:

Aeolus.3615:

Gw2 is a pve designed ONLY game, anything put in pvp context is gona end borked up.

Disagree with that, spvp esports was a big part of the initial push for the game and WvW was clearly a major part of endgame in the design phase. That emphasis changed once Colin was made Lead Producer around the time of the launch.

I do understand what u ment and i agree with some part of it, i was pretty fired up at the start with this game pvp, but once i learned the mechanics and how i ment to be played it became very ugly even to observe, classes design is pure PVE and that is what i was typing about, that ended borking up the pvp scenes both spvp and wvw, even instead of a true balance and see what went wrong they ended removing/hidding trinkets from pvp to avoid the class balance, since classes are working in the only thing that this game was designed to atrack players wich is pve, both spvp and wvw were just small aditions to the real gw2.
ESL pvp was just a propaganda stuff for gw2 try to get fame at being the new kids on the block pvp game, they even instead of inovate what was good from gw1 they tried to copy paste the moba with the the stronghold…

Gw2 is a compact bible of bad game decisions overall, it wasnt even the lead producer fault (he just folowed for sure a internal code that was already defined for gw2), its the entire core concept that is at fault and who the team/devs treat/ignore the problems trying to mascarade those issues cause they know they cant fix the stuff since a fix means a contradictions to what gw2 was designed for.

ok guys just to show you an example, the promo for borderlands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxjkQ8Tf7rE

It is true the video is unfortunate as it focus in the pve aspect and the fly thru camera is not of any good when the players clash, but you can get the idea from the few glimpses of castle siege and defense. That small bits were the ones that got me excited after the new maps, shame the maps are too big for the amount of players it can hold (some say is a running simulator).

Think that overview camera for Esports, with the skills reworked to remove all those flashes but keep the impactful animations (we understand the bad example that was the fire pebble from the ele), with the siege and all the players fighting over.

In this escenarios you put together the players that like the game, the people that like big battles and the server and country pride. That potentially is many more than the few hundred (200 i think did have the last esport?) they can get with the actual spvp scene.

Not even need to give cash prices, with exclusive virtual prices and titles people would be willing to join.

So under any business view is a win win, now with a balanced and fun wvw were roamers, small groups and zergs can play at the same time would be a great addition with a lot of new opportunities to experiment.

Aeolus.3615:

morrolan.9608:

Aeolus.3615:

Gw2 is a pve designed ONLY game, anything put in pvp context is gona end borked up.

Disagree with that, spvp esports was a big part of the initial push for the game and WvW was clearly a major part of endgame in the design phase. That emphasis changed once Colin was made Lead Producer around the time of the launch.

I do understand what u ment and i agree with some part of it, i was pretty fired up at the start with this game pvp, but once i learned the mechanics and how i ment to be played it became very ugly even to observe, classes design is pure PVE and that is what i was typing about, that ended borking up the pvp scenes both spvp and wvw, even instead of a true balance and see what went wrong they ended removing/hidding trinkets from pvp to avoid the class balance, since classes are working in the only thing that this game was designed to atrack players wich is pve, both spvp and wvw were just small aditions to the real gw2.
ESL pvp was just a propaganda stuff for gw2 try to get fame at being the new kids on the block pvp game, they even instead of inovate what was good from gw1 they tried to copy paste the moba with the the stronghold…

Gw2 is a compact bible of bad game decisions overall, it wasnt even the lead producer fault (he just folowed for sure a internal code that was already defined for gw2), its the entire core concept that is at fault and who the team/devs treat/ignore the problems trying to mascarade those issues cause they know they cant fix the stuff since a fix means a contradictions to what gw2 was designed for.

Well said, I couldn’t agree with you more. For all of the people who disagrees with this. I challenge them to play a true RvR and or PvP game as a side game to play along side GW2 as their main game. Only then would you people see what we mean by this.

There is a huge difference between the way. GW2 is market, balanced, and advertised. For the games that are dedicated PvP, or RvR games. There is little difference between the way GW2 is. marketed balanced, and advertised. From other PvE games, only difference is. That you are able to see hundreds of players at the same time.

Most of balance and marketing decisions made by ANet from the past 15 months or so. Are not conducive to the success of a PvP or RvR game. But that of a causal PvE game. Hence why you have population crisis in WvW and PvP game modes.

The only thing ANet could do to fix this. Is to make GW3 with the framework of PvP and not PvE at it’s heart. However doing this would put ANet into full competition with all of the games like this. So GW2’s casual PvE status is the path of least resistance. Which it why, it continues to seem ANet are not listening to the right people. When in fact they are listing to the right people, the PvEers/PvXers. PvPers and WvWers are a side thought if that. Our voices don’t matter one bit. In fact I’m willing to bet they wish they can find some political correct way to completely silence us.

Reaper Alim.4176:

Our voices don’t matter one bit. In fact I’m willing to bet they wish they can find some political correct way to completely silence us.

I don’t think that’s true. Allowing us to rant on some obscure, ignored subforum is a great way to allow us to let off steam that doesn’t affect their game.

wont happen.. Anet doesnt care about wvw anymore, hence they have said many times that there will never be another wvw season, hence the glicko changes, server stacking and linkings for lower tiers.

They only seem to care about spvp in the way that blizzard did back in the old days of WoW.

Dont expect any big changes for wvw other than shuffling that causes more server transfers so thay make money off them.

Exciton.8942:

Swamurabi.7890:

The time for WvW eSports was a few years ago and Anet missed that opportunity.

The GvG scene could have become big, but you really need a shoutcaster that knows what’s going on. Sometimes it’s tough to see through all the effects.

And to think what kind of skill balance changes would we see if there was a WvW eSports.

People already found it hard to follow actions in 5v5 PvP.

GvG is even worse. All you see is a cluster of name tags vs a cluster of name tags. Anyone believing it has potential being esports is deluding himself.

Yeah, the combat in GW2 isn’t eSports friendly. However, I think GvGs with actual support had massive potential to foster a large community of gamers that would play practically forever.

They really missed a trick, and the clue was in the name: guild wars.

Sadly, they didn’t think to bring over the best feature of Guild Wars, which was guild battles, because they decided GW2 should be a pve game, and should break with the traditional (read well tested, balanced, etc) trinity.

GvG with categories and a few basic maps (flag running, guild lords, etc) would have had a huge following. Categories could have been 10v10, 15v15, 20v20, with different maps for each battle size to make them more tactical. Could have set up competitions with restrictions on each class numbers, even had solo class battles, etc.

It’s a shame they decided to promote 5v5 instead and forgot what motivates people- I used to love battling our way to near the top of the gvg ladder back in the first years of GW.

Ermmm…..

mmorpg is hard to enter esport market simply because many esport games usually has low learning curve to get into while having high skill cap but for mmorpg, the learning curve isnt exactly as low and the skill cap is inconsistent due to balance and designs.

however, even if mmorpg dont get into esport and just targeting the players vs players genre, it can still work out but the learning curve still an issue.

…………………………

Still waiting.

trueanimus.4085:

wont happen.. Anet doesnt care about wvw anymore, hence they have said many times that there will never be another wvw season, hence the glicko changes, server stacking and linkings for lower tiers.

They only seem to care about spvp in the way that blizzard did back in the old days of WoW.

Dont expect any big changes for wvw other than shuffling that causes more server transfers so thay make money off them.

Its not that they dont care, its what they can do and what they cant do, if they change something it means that gw2 looses its original ideology and that is a forbiden thing to change.
Sadly what is making the game trully borked up is what they cant change.

About transfers, one solution for start is reset the wvw lvl everytime player change server.
Seconds is end servers… lol (one thing that cant be changed).

Aeolus.3615:

trueanimus.4085:

wont happen.. Anet doesnt care about wvw anymore, hence they have said many times that there will never be another wvw season, hence the glicko changes, server stacking and linkings for lower tiers.

They only seem to care about spvp in the way that blizzard did back in the old days of WoW.

Dont expect any big changes for wvw other than shuffling that causes more server transfers so thay make money off them.

Its not that they dont care, its what they can do and what they cant do, if they change something it means that gw2 looses its original ideology and that is a forbiden thing to change.
Sadly what is making the game trully borked up is what they cant change.

About transfers, one solution for start is reset the wvw lvl everytime player change server.
Seconds is end servers… lol (one thing that cant be changed).

They already strayed from their “no grind” ideology when they introduced ascended gear and that wasn’t even that long after release. They strayed again with release of HoT, that expac had thin content and empty grind running all throughout it, from the guild upgrades to account upgrades through the repetitive activity needed to get masteries (just so you can navigate the same maps or upgrade your character traits/skills via access to previously inaccessible hero points etc). Anet could have changed things and supported balanced battlegrounds because WvWvW was obviously flawed from inception but they had their eyes on Living Story artificial scarcity gem shop sales and MOBA money.

I’d love it. Its an incredible game mode but not sure they could pull it off when so much is wrong with it right now.

This game is not conducive to esports because it looks and is too complex to follow as a spectator. It just looks like a spam salad of AOE’s, and for those that don’t play or only casually play, its near impossible to follow versus a MOBA, or a game like Hearthstone.

If esports didn’t work for the most popular MMO ever made, it sure as hell wouldn’t work for GW2. Definitely not GvG which would be even worse as a spectator.

They missed the opportunity for that years ago when they drove away the GvG players with crappy changes. If they revert the stab and condi changes and remove broken stats like dire and minstrels, tone back the boonspam and passive procs on every class. MAYBE and thats a very small maybe, we might see a return of GvG then we could see where it goes from there. But they would actually have to care enough about wvw for that to happen and admit they were wrong (HAHA) and finally have separate skill balance for all 3 game modes.

I used to play wvw for 6 +hours a day roaming and doing gvg. Now i only log in maybe once a week or so for a few hours if that much. And occasionally check in praying for condi nerfs to be announced. They just made this mode no longer fun to play. And if its not fun for the people playing it, why the hell would anyone want to watch it?

gennyt.3428:

Aeolus.3615:

trueanimus.4085:

wont happen.. Anet doesnt care about wvw anymore, hence they have said many times that there will never be another wvw season, hence the glicko changes, server stacking and linkings for lower tiers.

They only seem to care about spvp in the way that blizzard did back in the old days of WoW.

Dont expect any big changes for wvw other than shuffling that causes more server transfers so thay make money off them.

Its not that they dont care, its what they can do and what they cant do, if they change something it means that gw2 looses its original ideology and that is a forbiden thing to change.
Sadly what is making the game trully borked up is what they cant change.

About transfers, one solution for start is reset the wvw lvl everytime player change server.
Seconds is end servers… lol (one thing that cant be changed).

They already strayed from their “no grind” ideology when they introduced ascended gear and that wasn’t even that long after release. They strayed again with release of HoT, that expac had thin content and empty grind running all throughout it, from the guild upgrades to account upgrades through the repetitive activity needed to get masteries (just so you can navigate the same maps or upgrade your character traits/skills via access to previously inaccessible hero points etc). Anet could have changed things and supported balanced battlegrounds because WvWvW was obviously flawed from inception but they had their eyes on Living Story artificial scarcity gem shop sales and MOBA money.

Exactly, they had to add more stuff where they could to continue their game ideal, anything else is barelly untouchable since it will change the Anet design enforcement as much wrong and flawed it is.

sPvP and WvW are a super failure because of that mentality, they tweak it arround pve while the game should be first in pvp(combat design).
Everything is to aoe, cleave, spam based this is the first thing Anet needs to reduce gamemode wide, to very noob friendly way way to much…

meh.. gw2 is a fail already.