Guild Wars 2

All those who PvP in WvW plays PvE too.

I dun see them complaining that they have to do PvE in order to WvW.

Plus they are plenty of PvE monsters inside WvW as well.

Hence I say WvW is part of PvE.

So the 100% Map Completion including WvW is normal and justified.

So what do you say?

I’ve always been opposed to PvE objectives on PvP because the style of gameplay tends to shift from “hey, let’s beat that group of players” to “hey, let’s avoid that group of players and exploit the PvE objectives any way we can for rewards”.

I’m not saying GW2 has that problem as severely as some games (looking at you, Aion, and hi Alterac Valley!), but yeah. Why even create the possibility for it to be an issue?

WvW’s definitely not like skilled pvp. The jousting isn’t by player skill, but by moving of troops, and siege is what really matters.

It’s not very much like pve, tho, cuz the mobs there are super easy in comparison.

The question I am not seeing that should be being discussed is:

Do WvW players really want PvE players filling up the queue and then sitting in safe areas waiting for their PoIs, SP and Vistas to open up while they are not helping? I believe an issue like this came up when Factions first came out – players afking during matches. PvEers simply said “Then don’t make me do this.”

I see the logic behind the 100% (and have gotten my 100%), but personally, I would much rather have players that want to WvW in there rather than PvE only players that don’t contribute.

This is something that all involved players should consider. PvE only players aren’t going to be bait for easy kills; they are only going to fill the queue (especially when the free transfers are gone) and do nothing but wait or find “safe” routes to farm nodes/mobs while they wait.

I’ve got no problems with there being PVE content in the WvW zones, risk reward and all that.

BUT (and its a huge but) …. the queues.

At peak time it is difficult to get into the WvW zones to participate in WvW. Having players in the queue who have no intention of participating in WvW and just want to PVE just makes this worse.

And then when you finally do get past the queue you find that whilst there’s lots of calls for assistance at various combat flash points, many of the people in the zone are just standing around AFK, or doing the PVE objectives, or farming crafting mats etc. I’d have zero problem with this if there were no queues, but there are queues and so it’s very frustrating.

Since Anet knew there would be queues, I think it was a very bad design decision to put PVE content into the WvW zones.

And those queues will only get worse as more PvE only players hit 80 and try to clear out those achievements as their goals. And as we are already seeing; it will be an even larger issue later as they sit there waiting for those PoI, SP and Vistas to become free.

WvW players may eventually get frustrated and start suggesting “punishing” such behavior or “forcing” activity (which then empowers the complaints on “Forced PvP”) – eventually WvW players may give up. The PvEers will then see their goals unattainable and also give up.

I for one am very curious to see where and if Anet addresses this. I can see it being a real problem later on.

I’d agree to this if it weren’t for the fact that three of the four WvW maps are exactly the same. Exploration means going somewhere you haven’t been to before, not going to the same place with a different name.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

All those who PvP in WvW plays PvE too.

I dun see them complaining that they have to do PvE in order to WvW.

Plus they are plenty of PvE monsters inside WvW as well.

Hence I say WvW is part of PvE.

So the 100% Map Completion including WvW is normal and justified.

So what do you say?

I think WvW having some, optional, achievements its fine.

However people that play WvW more, lets say enthusiastically, have to UNDERSTAND and ACCEPT that if someone is there to get the POI’s and SP or monthly kills and does not want to join on a “lets storm this keep” run its not a reason to berate them.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

All those who PvP in WvW plays PvE too.

I dun see them complaining that they have to do PvE in order to WvW.

Plus they are plenty of PvE monsters inside WvW as well.

Hence I say WvW is part of PvE.

So the 100% Map Completion including WvW is normal and justified.

So what do you say?

I say that NO ITS NOT. Am I fighting other players ? Yes then its PVP. End of story.

Also haveing to pvp casues Pve players to resent having to do this, while at the same time casueing wvw players to resent Pve players who are only there to get poi’s and not help out. Removeing the need to wvw causes less resentment all around so is a win/win for Arenanet. By all means create some new wvw only achivements. But remove the need for “forced” pvp.

I love WvW, but I don’t agree with forced PvP at all. Some players just don’t want to take part in it. I think GW2 should keep the PvE, WvW and sPvP portions of the game separate.

Yeah, as a PvE player, I’ve given up on 100% map and the monthly. Sure I could add to the queue, and then AFK until I can get what I need, but I’d feel bad doing it.

I look at WvW as more of a shared PvE/PvP experience as the opportunity intentionally exists for both there. If you want pure PvP, or pure PvE, there are other areas of the game for that and you’re welcome to play there instead. You shouldn’t go to WvW expecting to PvP or PvE exclusively, nor complain when you see a player participating in one or the other.

However, as the visitor space is limited.. I would prefer they enforce that players are doing one or the other while on the WvW maps. AFK or have a conversation in guild chat somewhere else, as it is neither a PvE or PvP activity. There’s no “versus” element in gabbing.

I’m a WvW player and I want them removed from WvW (PvE content that is). We always get morons on our server DEMANDING that our entire server goes and help them defend them in the jumping puzzle. The sad part is, some people do. These are merely distractions to get the needed idiots to ruin a zerg.

Edge.4180:

I look at WvW as more of a shared PvE/PvP experience as the opportunity intentionally exists for both there. If you want pure PvP, or pure PvE, there are other areas of the game for that and you’re welcome to play there instead. You shouldn’t go to WvW expecting to PvP or PvE exclusively, nor complain when you see a player participating in one or the other.

However, as the visitor space is limited.. I would prefer they enforce that players are doing one or the other while on the WvW maps. AFK or have a conversation in guild chat somewhere else, as it is neither a PvE or PvP activity. There’s no “versus” element in gabbing.

True. Folks shouldn’t be sitting around, twiddling their thumbs in WvW. That’s not what it was designed for.

However, the flaw here is that it’s necessary to be there in order to complete certain achievements like map completion. It was well-known to the developers that a significant number of their potential players are not only disinterested in PvP, but actively dislike it. Just look at how severely the two game styles have been separated mechanically. Yet they chose to put objectives there that PvE-only players would need to get to, in order to attain certain achievements.

That’s not going to make someone who doesn’t like PvP, suddenly change their mind about it. If someone turns out to be amenable to PvP, they would likely have dipped their toes in on their own, when they felt ready to. They don’t need a push in that direction. For the rest of us who remain disinterested or who still actively dislike it, it only serves to irritate and frustrate. But it doesn’t take away our desire to complete those achievements because that particular metagame is independent of either PvE or PvP.

So we sit. We wait. We cybersquat on those coveted WvW slots, making sure that WvW enthusiasts have to wait that much longer to play, because we really haven’t been given an option to do otherwise. And no one wins.

This was ArenaNet’s decision and they dropped the ball with it. It’s a social engineering failure.

WvW is PvPvE. Definatly part of 100% map completion.

Blacklight.2871:

True. Folks shouldn’t be sitting around, twiddling their thumbs in WvW. That’s not what it was designed for.

However, the flaw here is that it’s necessary to be there in order to complete certain achievements like map completion. It was well-known to the developers that a significant number of their potential players are not only disinterested in PvP, but actively dislike it. Just look at how severely the two game styles have been separated mechanically. Yet they chose to put objectives there that PvE-only players would need to get to, in order to attain certain achievements.

That’s not going to make someone who doesn’t like PvP, suddenly change their mind about it. If someone turns out to be amenable to PvP, they would likely have dipped their toes in on their own, when they felt ready to. They don’t need a push in that direction. For the rest of us who remain disinterested or who still actively dislike it, it only serves to irritate and frustrate. But it doesn’t take away our desire to complete those achievements because that particular metagame is independent of either PvE or PvP.

So we sit. We wait. We cybersquat on those coveted WvW slots, making sure that WvW enthusiasts have to wait that much longer to play, because we really haven’t been given an option to do otherwise. And no one wins.

This was ArenaNet’s decision and they dropped the ball with it. It’s a social engineering failure.

I have a number of friends playing the game who are normally not interested in PvP who “dipped their toe” into WvW only because they “had to” for the achievement (which isn’t necessary to begin with, but some players insist is) and the end result was that they ended up being pleasantly surprised with how fun WvW can be and now play there often because they want to. So, I can hardy suggest ArenaNet dropped the ball – I’m pretty sure they got exactly what they wanted with that one.

There will always be players who are not happy with something. Your comment regarding cybersquatting just sounds like you want to make sure others feel your displeasure. That’s not on ArenaNet, that’s on you.

As long as player caps and queues exist, PvE’ers should GTFO out of WvW.

Stop damaging the gameplay experience of the WvW players on your server, and they’ll stop kittening you out in chat.

Edit: To clarify, there’s a different between 100% map completers and general PvE’ers. Doing 100% map completion in WvW doesn’t take much time unless you afk in the zone waiting for the POIs to become available. THAT is stupid. Seriously, go do something more productive like farm Orr DEs and come back later to leech.

The primary issue is the NPC mob farmers who take up player cap and idle in the WvW zones for long stretches of time. THAT is detrimental to the server.

Arenanet should start by making all 3 borderlands a single zone.
That way unlocking a POI/vista in one of the borderlands, unlocks it in all 3.

Right now the system is a pain and a waste of time for everyone.

^ might be on to something if everyone benefits.

What a useful thread!

Redamz idea has some merit. It would lower the amount of future “camping” WvW will have as PvE only players sit and wait.

Easymode’s post also touches a bit on what I mentioned above. Players “may” become frustrated at longer queues and less help as PvEers sit idle. But lets face it; a PvEer that is annoyed at having to go into WvW is not going to care that his/her being there annoys anyone else – misery loves company and all that.
They are also not likely to listen to anyone raging at them for long; they may retort a quick “Well, tell Anet to move WvW out of 100% and I will leave” before turning off map chat or blocking/reporting another for verbal abuse while they “innocently” wait for PoIs to get clear – or kill near by mobs to cover any “griefing” they may be accused of.
I still feel if left as is, Players will end up griefing each other. WvW players will get frustrated at the lack of willing helpers/fighters and PvE players will get frustrated at having to be there.

Yep. It’s pretty inevitable. Totally agree that 100% map complete should not include WvW, although ANet did it for a logical reason: to get PvE’ers casually into WvW. I think that if ANet cut the PvE NPC farmers (e.g. farming skelks and gryphons for blood), then the problem would stabilize.

I doubt it’s fun for POI-waiters to wait, and I imagine that those particular folks tend to try to help the WvW effort by taking those objectives. The problem is when they “wait” by afking at centaurs/npcs and make themselves useless.

WasAGuest.4973:

The question I am not seeing that should be being discussed is:

Do WvW players really want PvE players filling up the queue and then sitting in safe areas waiting for their PoIs, SP and Vistas to open up while they are not helping? I believe an issue like this came up when Factions first came out – players afking during matches. PvEers simply said “Then don’t make me do this.”

I see the logic behind the 100% (and have gotten my 100%), but personally, I would much rather have players that want to WvW in there rather than PvE only players that don’t contribute.

This is something that all involved players should consider. PvE only players aren’t going to be bait for easy kills; they are only going to fill the queue (especially when the free transfers are gone) and do nothing but wait or find “safe” routes to farm nodes/mobs while they wait.

This is my problem with it. IMO, there should not be anyone in WvW that isn’t furthering their servers cause.