Guild Wars 2

antidote.7201:

Try to see outside your clouded views and realize the true issues with the game

It’s not Anet’s fault, neither the linking system, that failed.
I think we just try to explain what happenned to T1-NA servers (T2 also,but during a shorter period) , and what was the conditions that made it so much unbalanced and broken. Basically, for anyone who want to understand why :

They transfered a lot, they opened a guild for alts on others servers and they started recruiting for another stacked server.
Which worked pretty good on YB, because YB wanted to go into tier 1.
After realising that YB is not more of a karma train population then any other server around they needed to start over and a server that declined their idea before (TC) was the new target for the transfer and recruiting.

So, basically the statement was correct. The whole mess started because a few guilds started recruiting for “a better tier one” without even knowing how that could look like.

The problem was not only about 2 guilds, it was more about the tons of ppl that transfered during a short term period to a same server. But the precursors were those 2 guilds.

You’re wrong. OnS moved from BG after being there for 2+ years because of drama.
Drama is what caused JQ to be in the state it’s in and drama is what caused TC to not push up in the tier after it dropped. These event, transpired into guilds and communities coming up with alternative measures to play where they want.

Both in my guild and outside. We then decided to move with a goal to make another Tier 1 server and see if its possible for a rotation simply because we needed a new home. You can’t blame this on us, over simple player relations. For you to say that, is like saying SoR ruined the game but mass transferring to TC to bring them up. Did they know the effects of doing so? or did they feel as though they had to do it for their reasons? Yet they gave birth to a new server. The same way BG came to Tier 1 as a matter of fact.

This whole mess didn’t start with the days of BG/TC/JQ and if you think it did you are undermining this entire game of WvW and the history of the servers entirely. I’m not sure exactly what you’re blaming OnS and TW for? Transferring? or being so renown that when we do decide to leave a server we have such large backing while doing it. Maybe you’re blaming OnS and TW for Yaks Bend. But then you are forgetting Yaks bend is simply using the tools Arena Net provided them. Maybe you’re blaming TW and OnS for JQ falling out of the tier. But OnS has never played on JQ, and we had nothing to do with their dramas that led a large percent of their player base to take up homes on other servers. Which is why JQ didn’t produce numbers outside of SEA/OCX. Furthermore, it was the actions of BG and the BGWC that enabled TW to go to JQ on alt accounts to save them a year and a half ago. This was done because of the staleness in Tier 1 where once again BG was way too stacked and no one could fall out of tier, yet we didn’t want to break our friend ships for the sake of server balance. Hence the alt accounts.

Understand the problem is with the game mechanics and the tools Arena Net gives us to produce healthy environments and the GW2 community does what it can to make healthy environments for their enjoyment as they see fit.

And no nothing OnS and TW did violates anything. There was never a time, where I was banned from this game or talked to by Arena Net in this light. hell, we have some staff in our guild and we’ve been in their testing events as you guys saw from Reyanas stream.

I wonder if you people realize that there are other servers outside of tier 1 lol.. Blackgate is only a problem for YB and TC. No one else cares, and if you don’t like fighting them – go transfer to a different server. Really, all of the complaining about Blackgate when you’re willing to do nothing about it is getting old. I can’t go in to a WvW thread without seeing someone crying about fighting Blackgate.

Come on down to T2 or T3, it is a lot more fun than T1. I can personally vouch for that as someone who was on Blackgate and transferred to a T3 server that became a T2 server (Borlis Pass/Fort Aspenwood.)

XTR.9604:

I wonder if you people realize that there are other servers outside of tier 1 lol.. Blackgate is only a problem for YB and TC. No one else cares, and if you don’t like fighting them – go transfer to a different server. Really, all of the complaining about Blackgate when you’re willing to do nothing about it is getting old. I can’t go in to a WvW thread without seeing someone crying about fighting Blackgate.

Come on down to T2 or T3, it is a lot more fun than T1. I can personally vouch for that as someone who was on Blackgate and transferred to a T3 server that became a T2 server (Borlis Pass/Fort Aspenwood.)

^This is true except for that fact that no tier is safe with this tier linking volatility changes. Transferring to another server at this point is dangerous.

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

XTR.9604:

I wonder if you people realize that there are other servers outside of tier 1 lol.. Blackgate is only a problem for YB and TC. No one else cares, and if you don’t like fighting them – go transfer to a different server. Really, all of the complaining about Blackgate when you’re willing to do nothing about it is getting old. I can’t go in to a WvW thread without seeing someone crying about fighting Blackgate.

Come on down to T2 or T3, it is a lot more fun than T1. I can personally vouch for that as someone who was on Blackgate and transferred to a T3 server that became a T2 server (Borlis Pass/Fort Aspenwood.)

^This is true except for that fact that no tier is safe with this tier linking volatility changes. Transferring to another server at this point is dangerous.

Yes indeed, so wait until after Friday to decide where to transfer once the servers are relinked. I’ve transferred so many times, I’ve lost count. I don’t mind though, I go where the fun is. If it ever stops being fun for me on the server I am on, I go somewhere else. I don’t see why that is a hard concept for so many people to grasp.

If you’re trapped in a room with a bunch of people you don’t like (or don’t want to be around in general), would you be willing to pay $10 to leave that room and go to one where there are different people that you may like better or do you stay in that room and suffer? I’d rather pay $10 and take a chance on new people if I know I don’t like being where I am already.

XTR.9604:

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

XTR.9604:

I wonder if you people realize that there are other servers outside of tier 1 lol.. Blackgate is only a problem for YB and TC. No one else cares, and if you don’t like fighting them – go transfer to a different server. Really, all of the complaining about Blackgate when you’re willing to do nothing about it is getting old. I can’t go in to a WvW thread without seeing someone crying about fighting Blackgate.

Come on down to T2 or T3, it is a lot more fun than T1. I can personally vouch for that as someone who was on Blackgate and transferred to a T3 server that became a T2 server (Borlis Pass/Fort Aspenwood.)

^This is true except for that fact that no tier is safe with this tier linking volatility changes. Transferring to another server at this point is dangerous.

Yes indeed, so wait until after Friday to decide where to transfer once the servers are relinked. I’ve transferred so many times, I’ve lost count. I don’t mind though, I go where the fun is. If it ever stops being fun for me on the server I am on, I go somewhere else. I don’t see why that is a hard concept for so many people to grasp.

If you’re trapped in a room with a bunch of people you don’t like (or don’t want to be around in general), would you be willing to pay $10 to leave that room and go to one where there are different people that you may like better or do you stay in that room and suffer? I’d rather pay $10 and take a chance on new people if I know I don’t like being where I am already.

I agree with you, but then again you’re talking to someone who is known to not stay still and move when I feel as though I need to to enjoy the game. However, in this game people have server loyalty more so, and don’t wish to leave their communities just because the enemy is not sustainable to fight.

Also, waiting till Friday to pick a server to move to till the next relink is a dangerous endeavor and brings the question, does Arena Net want us to transfer around every few weeks, or do they honestly believe that during one of these shuffles the community is going to magically balance itself out.

"Lord of Rings.5371"

If the oppositions can make the game boring for you and your commanders, they are winning slowly because servers are weakened when their players stopped participating by either sitting out or transferring away.

Winning decisively is one way for a server to win because it demoralizes the oppositions.

Disengagement and playing defensively is a counter with the goal of make the winning server bored of frustration and quit.

An outnumbered server has no obligation to be played and served up as bags just because it is losing.

Morale is the single most powerful win in this game. If you make the enemy grow bored, tired, angry, etc and quit, then you gain more on this than any other way of fighting the enemy. In this aspect Griefing, Trolling, Ganking, Mesmer-portaling, Cheating etc are very good tactics in WvW, because they demoralize the enemy more than anything else.

How to fix this ? Don’t know, you’d have to try to make it un-rewarding to do these things. And different people find different rewards in those: Personal Gain, PPT, and plain griefing.

---

For Personal Rewards:

Possibly link reward track and other rewards entirely to actually fighting other players ? Not to ticks or attack/defend events ? But rather use the Events as multipliers to the reward track gains ?

The idea here would be that you gain reward track by fighting other players (win or lose, but probably a bit more for wining). But 5 people taking a tower or camp solo wouldn’t get anything or very little, unless there was someone defending it.

This would hopefully encourage people to go for fights, to be willing to engage. As you wouldn’t get any rewards from just avoiding them. Even losing you’d gain more on fighting, than trying to avoid it. That reminds me, probably should say no rewards from using Siege either, or at least extremely little. And the multipliers from the events should lead people to fight over objectives.

Probably a dozen problems with this.

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

XTR.9604:

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

XTR.9604:

I wonder if you people realize that there are other servers outside of tier 1 lol.. Blackgate is only a problem for YB and TC. No one else cares, and if you don’t like fighting them – go transfer to a different server. Really, all of the complaining about Blackgate when you’re willing to do nothing about it is getting old. I can’t go in to a WvW thread without seeing someone crying about fighting Blackgate.

Come on down to T2 or T3, it is a lot more fun than T1. I can personally vouch for that as someone who was on Blackgate and transferred to a T3 server that became a T2 server (Borlis Pass/Fort Aspenwood.)

^This is true except for that fact that no tier is safe with this tier linking volatility changes. Transferring to another server at this point is dangerous.

Yes indeed, so wait until after Friday to decide where to transfer once the servers are relinked. I’ve transferred so many times, I’ve lost count. I don’t mind though, I go where the fun is. If it ever stops being fun for me on the server I am on, I go somewhere else. I don’t see why that is a hard concept for so many people to grasp.

If you’re trapped in a room with a bunch of people you don’t like (or don’t want to be around in general), would you be willing to pay $10 to leave that room and go to one where there are different people that you may like better or do you stay in that room and suffer? I’d rather pay $10 and take a chance on new people if I know I don’t like being where I am already.

I agree with you, but then again you’re talking to someone who is known to not stay still and move when I feel as though I need to to enjoy the game. However, in this game people have server loyalty more so, and don’t wish to leave their communities just because the enemy is not sustainable to fight.

Also, waiting till Friday to pick a server to move to till the next relink is a dangerous endeavor and brings the question, does Arena Net want us to transfer around every few weeks, or do they honestly believe that during one of these shuffles the community is going to magically balance itself out.

I understand. I always enjoyed the communities in Borlis Pass and Maguuma personally. I have transferred back to both of them probably 6+ times each haha. But when either would get in a consistently bad match up, I would have to leave to make sure that I continue to have fun with the game. There was a point in time long ago where BP was stuck fighting DB and YB for weeks on end and I couldn’t stand it, it was the worst, most boring match up of all time. I went to Maguuma, enjoyed fighting SOS, SBI and FA for quite some time until DB and YB ended up moving up the ranks and I got stuck with them again, resulting in me transferring again lol. I have transferred probably 20+ times between my 2 accounts at this point, and I don’t mind doing it again.

Thankfully, I do have 2 accounts, so I can keep one wherever [BEEP] is (the bigger guild I run with), then transfer the other account with my guild [XT] wherever the roaming is best. I’ve done this a lot and it seems to have been what keeps the game fun for me personally.

I don’t know who exactly thinks TC queues all 4 maps on reset, at best I see 2 maps with a queue. Usually 1 large queue of ~20 and 1 small queue of less than 10. Every other night, including saturday … we’re lucky to queue 1 map, and generally it’s when a top rated guild is driving.

Still doesn’t stop me from jumping in and fighting. Had a lot of fun on EBG last night, and half the night TC was driver-less, just a bunch of players using map chat.

To the BG group that kept us busy in SMC and between our keep and SMC … hats off to you… I was trying to pull some of you off to do 1v1 on the side, but almost every time, your team of 3 would port in jump on me and I’d have to retreat. I don’t know how to properly identify I’d like to fight some of you one on one. But i guess i’ll go spvp for that . Was fun regardless

@MaLeVoLenT.8129

I’m blaming onS and TW because they are responsible for a part of this kitten mess. You moved to YB at the same time as TW, bunkering the server, siege humping just to demoralize the opponents. This is pretty much what made JQ drop to T2 : fighting a bunker server who plays with full sieges’s weapons for 3+ months, who wants to deal with that ? There was not so much dramas on JQ until some bandwagonners decided to raid YB. Now YB is what ? Dead (considering the actual ppt / what it was 6months ago). I can also post the inspirational talk of the leader of TW about SoR. Now SoR is what ? Dead. Wherever bandwagonners go, the server always finish in a bad state, as it kills a community which took time to be built. We will never see both of you on an outmanned server and you’re looking for real fights ? Must be something to ask yourself.

So yeah, you will tell me I’m angry or mad about some guilds : I’ve just seen the entire snowball coming from the inside. I’ve been on JQ for about 2 years, back in the days, the matchup was SoR vs bg vs JQ. Fights everywhere. Now, I’ve moved to EU, there is no point to be on T1 NA against/or with Blackgate overstacked. And T2 is actually a collateral damage of all those bandwagons sessions.

So yeah, nobody is responsible, it’s all about the system ? So why are EU matchups balanced and healthy ? If the system is/was broken, it would be broken also for EU side. There’s no future on T1 NA until it get balanced, but you guys are probably already preparing gems for transfering after the 24th june’s patch. I used to like playing on NA during holidays as well, but there’s no point fighting on NA atm. I just wanted to say the truth to Anet devs and people, trying to figure it out what happenned. Some people abused the system, a lot of them are atm in T1 and now they are stuck with a +150k ppt in the middle of the week and less open fields fights. Guess what they are thinking ? Time to transfer to a healthier tier ! And the bandwagon will keep moving on.

Once again, will the system be the only responsible ?
Like someone said, if you’re reading this North American’s WvWers :

D E S T A C K and SPREAD OUT!!! otherwise kitten and quit complaining…

Meh you all can point fingers all over, it’s just as much the players faults as anets that wvw is in the state it’s in. Players have been stacking and restacking servers since before release, titan alliance stacked hod for 24/7 coverage coming out of beta, ocx stacked sos, bunch of other bandwagons to the winning servers, etc.

OnS and maybe TW, did have an impact on screwing up the populations on a couple server, Mal is probably grinning inside that people are giving his guild so much credit for a mess. Well if you hadn’t jumped your alliance (which was more than just 2 guilds) onto YB you wouldn’t have pushed them to t1 which started the decline of it. JQ NA has it’s problems, with TW coming over for a period of time to help stabilize them.

Then you jumped to TC where you had your alts before, but guilds on there didn’t want you and your alliance, so they left. You pulled a chunk of players out of YB and then forced a chunk of them to move from TC, leaving BG to become the last t1 superpower server in the game.

The SoR situation is not even the same, that server failed internally because of the elitist players and lack of pugs to recruit from anymore (cause they did an excellent job of running them off), guilds jumped when that sinking ship started down the tiers, tc at t2.5 was the next best solution to stay in t1. Your alliance didn’t leave BG because it was failing. Yeah you help create a t1 server in YB, and now you’ve left them there to sink again, good job.

It’s time you moved your alliance down to lower servers for a change, you already messed up the top servers pretty good, too bad you can’t work your magic to help destack bg at this point too.

(waves) hi cesspool forums.

You seem bitter Antidote. Is it because JQ is hurting? We didnt play on Yaks Bend to Demoralize you or Siege hump. Siege… a mechanic of the game. Its not my fault you are fed up with a mechanic of the game that one said server uses more than the others. You cant blame me for that. Your arguments are illogical and solve nothing. You don’t even produce a reasonable solution. Cliff notes for you though, you will never stop OnS and TW from playing the game like they want. We will forever adapt to this game state even if that means we have to move to create another Tier 1 server. I am sorry you cant adapt to make a video game enjoyable for yourself and you friends like we can. Maybe Arena Net can make a system that we can all accept(doubt it).

Come to FA! We have magic find boost 24/7!

5 years after today you guys will still be talking about how OnS and TW did something years ago that you think had a greater impact on the game than it actually did. Instead of simply moving on and adapting and figuring out the root of the cause and simply understanding why we did it, you seek to further dismantle and create hostilities that do nothing but destroy your own and fuel OnS and TW and give them the credit and power to do what it is they want to do.

Where as the real issue is the mechanics we are given to allow us to do these things and become bored. You rather blame 2 guilds struggling to make due with a boring game state than the actual boring game. Furthermore you rather blame outside forces for JQs crumble where that just had to do with JQ. Remember I was once blamed for Saving JQs life with TW and now I’m blamed for their destruction. When all I do is play where the kitten I want.

antidote.7201:

You moved to YB at the same time as TW, bunkering the server, siege humping just to demoralize the opponents.

That isn’t what happened in T2. Demoralization occurred by them hunting and blobbing down whichever guilds were left after the GvG guilds transferred to T3 until those guilds transferred themselves. It was a population imbalance thing, as it always is. You have to understand that the T1 style of blob play is not what many guilds below T1 are looking for out of WvW.

joneirikb.7506:

Morale is the single most powerful win in this game. If you make the enemy grow bored, tired, angry, etc and quit, then you gain more on this than any other way of fighting the enemy.

Yeah indeed it is, but it’s too bad most will go to the “make them bored” route to try and break their enemies morale, instead of the “double team” like JQ TC did once upon a time in a tournament. Since trying to make your opponent bored will take a longer amount of time and not to mention probably bore your side out as well, while as the other way keeps everyone actively playing with a purpose.

Guess the only way that would ever change is if anet implements mechanics for it. Maybe that suggestion someone had of doing bounties on the enemy could help in this regard, or in the catch up mechanics maybe earn 2x more points for owning structures of the current points leader. But dunno would be nice if players could come to that focus on their own.

In Guild Wars 1 the population kept dipping and then exploding with each patch. After the novelty of each patch or update wore off, the populace dipped along with it. This is largely due to Guild Wars buy to play model and is no different in Guild Wars 2. WvW is not dead but it’s hurt until one of these events take place. The time in between is stagnant especially when very little change happens and reasons to fight hard. My alliance prides itself at giving our community a reason to keep enjoying the game. WvW is not dead, it’s imbalanced by ways of mechanics and it shows when there attrition rate is high within the game.

Chaba is also right, the demoralization hit when the GvG scene left, and Yaks Bend only had one option there after, because of the glicko wall and mechanic we had to push harder each week to get in the rightful tier.

Chaba.5410:

drcraig.9403:

XTR.9604:

When I left, if you tried to get in at 9pm, you were sitting in a 40+ man queue no matter which map you were trying to go to.

It really isn’t like that now, it’s simmered down.

Stale match-ups, guilds leaving because of queues, and lack of enemies to fight… Isn’t that why it’s simmered down now?

You’re probably right. I know I’m getting tired of blob wars.

I still say Anet should put some pain and demoralization into its playerbase, and cap map limits at the lowest populated server. Give BG ~100+ queues, while maps hold whatever numbers YB is able to provide.

Personally speaking, players have always made elaborate plans to server stack… this was mainly caused to populations and caps previously being based on world pve pops, not wvw pops. They would move WvW guilds (usually arranging like 5-10 NA, and 3-5 OCX onto an empty server so the server was a WvW focused server). This isn’t the case anymore. Now pops are based on WvW to some extent.

Now anyone who can or could get into BG jumped into it because most don’t want to be left on a dying server. Most won’t pay gem prices to move multiple times, the random players just want to move once.

This is why I don’t get why people are pointing fingers to TW and OnS, I just don’t believe that logic. I see it more based from random players looking for a WvW home that will have more activity or outlast the less populated servers. They moved and stayed with the most logical choice, the winning server. And likely will not move off… ever. If Anet were to force populations to spread out, most would likely just drop the game, and that’s not good for any community.

gebrechen.5643:

X T D.6458:

Blaming everything on 2 guilds is a bit ridiculous, especially since OnS raids for only like 2 hours. And TW lol, well they do what they do, this is like the 6th server they have been on since I came to BG over a year and a half ago so don’t act surprised that they server hop for whatever reason. I personally like fighting these guilds so I don’t have a problem with them being on an opposing server, at least they don’t siege-bunker all day.

No, it isn’t. OnS started the stupid “let’s jump on a server to stack it – thing”. You may correct me, but they were one, not the only one, reason that BG was so stacked in season 1 and still recruiting over the years". I’m not sure what happened on BG which made OnS starting to hate the rest of BG, but they, Mal in particular, tried to get another server to fight bg and beat them. They transfered a lot, they opened a guild for alts on others servers and they started recruiting for another stacked server.
Which worked pretty good on YB, because YB wanted to go into tier 1.
After realising that YB is not more of a karma train population then any other server around they needed to start over and a server that declined their idea before (TC) was the new target for the transfer and recruiting.

So, basically the statement was correct. The whole mess started because a few guilds started recruiting for “a better tier one” without even knowing how that could look like.
I really like what happened. Tier 1 is fine for me. BG rolls over the siege and karma trains from YB while TC with it’s new transfers is stuck in between while we on JQ have good fights against DB and FA without having to deal with tons of arrow carts.

to clarify: OnS isn’t a good or really active guild or something, but their recruiting is good and that’s the point here. People transfers when they think they can achieve things – like “killing the full stacked BG” or “winning the useless ppt game”

OnS and TW did not start the whole server stacking and jumping thing lol, that has been going on as long as wvw has been live. I was on a server that had a large exodus after the first tournament and watched all the wvw guilds leave to stack another server. What their reasons are, or anyone else’s for that matter is irrelevant because people can do as they wish, transferring is not against the EULA, if they want to do what they find fun then that’s their business.

I personally am not going to spend my time coming up with conspiracy theories, if I see OnS and TW on a map I want to fight and wipe them, not ponder why they transferred to this server or that server, and what their motivations are…seriously folks its a game go out and have fun.

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

/snip

Don’t bother mate. ‘OnS+TW ruined T1’ is now a truth in the same way ‘YB is toxic for using siege’ is. you’ll never change anyone’s mind. Who gives a toss. Play and have fun.

WvW is dead! All hail WvW!

X T D.6458:

OnS and TW did not start the whole server stacking and jumping thing lol, that has been going on as long as wvw has been live.

Yeah but did any other guilds move so they could forcefully move servers up in rankings? other than like Warmachine years ago lol. Most guilds moved to get away from queues, to find better places to have more fun experiences in wvw.

Hell the majority of guilds that have moved in the last few years have been fight/gvg oriented guilds, most ppt guilds wouldn’t move unless the community got too toxic for them or they got good offers. When they moved they moved to balance tiers because obviously moving to the same server gets them less fights.

OnS doesn’t jump servers to balance tiers, they do it to break them, but they do it with buddies, and not just TW. That’s why they get the attention.

Xenesis.6389:

X T D.6458:

OnS and TW did not start the whole server stacking and jumping thing lol, that has been going on as long as wvw has been live.

Yeah but did any other guilds move so they could forcefully move servers up in rankings? other than like Warmachine years ago lol. Most guilds moved to get away from queues, to find better places to have more fun experiences in wvw.

Hell the majority of guilds that have moved in the last few years have been fight/gvg oriented guilds, most ppt guilds wouldn’t move unless the community got too toxic for them or they got good offers. When they moved they moved to balance tiers because obviously moving to the same server gets them less fights.

OnS doesn’t jump servers to balance tiers, they do it to break them, but they do it with buddies, and not just TW. That’s why they get the attention.

Well here’s the thing, cant stop anyone from doing what they want especially when its not against the EULA, so rather then people making a scapegoat of this person or that guild etc for all the problems in wvw, people should just remember its a game, and try to have fun. I am not exactly a fan of yb…but that doesn’t stop me from fighting them, or raiding on their map.

Xenesis.6389:

X T D.6458:

OnS and TW did not start the whole server stacking and jumping thing lol, that has been going on as long as wvw has been live.

Yeah but did any other guilds move so they could forcefully move servers up in rankings? other than like Warmachine years ago lol. Most guilds moved to get away from queues, to find better places to have more fun experiences in wvw.

Hell the majority of guilds that have moved in the last few years have been fight/gvg oriented guilds, most ppt guilds wouldn’t move unless the community got too toxic for them or they got good offers. When they moved they moved to balance tiers because obviously moving to the same server gets them less fights.

OnS doesn’t jump servers to balance tiers, they do it to break them, but they do it with buddies, and not just TW. That’s why they get the attention.

Sea of Sorrows, was bandwaggoned to in effort to make it rise from rank 9 to Rank 1 Tier 1. There has been countless efforts not to just make a server rise in a tier but also to lock a tier in general.

“Hell the majority of guilds that have moved in the last few years have been fight/gvg oriented guilds, most ppt guilds wouldn’t move unless the community got too toxic for them or they got good offers. "

The situation on BG was toxic and we wanted to end the toxic nature, thus we left. There was a huge difference in opinion and BG is better because we left and so are we.
When OnS and TW moved we moved with 9 guilds total who each had many reasons for this all coming from Blackgate. Yet, we moved from BG and BG was still able to maintain and didnt even take a 5% of the hit TC took even though TC lost no guilds.

You are still seeming to be bitter and rather blame two guilds for your problems. You rather look at the past you don’t understand and try to correlate it to the present problems, even though the present problems have to do with this “Beta”. Even our recent move to TC had to do with this beta and not with “forcing” a server to Tier 1.

You simply cant tell me what OnS is designed to do when I’m the guild leader. You are showing your frustration. But for you to fix your frustration, you have to look at yourself not others.

omg stopppppppp…… Why does anyone care? Go have this conversation on the cancer forums.. This thread is as bad as the match up threads there.

XTR.9604:

omg stopppppppp…… Why does anyone care? Go have this conversation on the cancer forums.. This thread is as bad as the match up threads there.

Am sorry, sometimes I feel the need to speak up when my guilds name is brought up in this manner. Especially when the information is incorrect and only perception. I was trying to stay objective with the debate, but it’s very pointless as people like to hold on to blind hatred that effects no one besides themselves.

Hey people are feel to do what they want. They did in part cause the mess up there, like I pointed out most other guilds move with some sort of balance in mind, they didn’t. They wanted to break t1 cause they were bored of it, they’re going to catch some flack for how t1 has ended up now since 3 of the servers they were directly involved with are up there now. Mal certainly loved telling everyone he was going to create a rotation up there, wanna take credit for that, gotta take the flack for it too.

He also had the option to jump to SoS or FA to try to help balance t2 out.

But hey what’s done is done, hopefully the links fix some of the mess up on friday.

XTR.9604:

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

XTR.9604:

I wonder if you people realize that there are other servers outside of tier 1 lol.. Blackgate is only a problem for YB and TC. No one else cares, and if you don’t like fighting them – go transfer to a different server. Really, all of the complaining about Blackgate when you’re willing to do nothing about it is getting old. I can’t go in to a WvW thread without seeing someone crying about fighting Blackgate.

Come on down to T2 or T3, it is a lot more fun than T1. I can personally vouch for that as someone who was on Blackgate and transferred to a T3 server that became a T2 server (Borlis Pass/Fort Aspenwood.)

^This is true except for that fact that no tier is safe with this tier linking volatility changes. Transferring to another server at this point is dangerous.

Yes indeed, so wait until after Friday to decide where to transfer once the servers are relinked. I’ve transferred so many times, I’ve lost count. I don’t mind though, I go where the fun is. If it ever stops being fun for me on the server I am on, I go somewhere else. I don’t see why that is a hard concept for so many people to grasp.

If you’re trapped in a room with a bunch of people you don’t like (or don’t want to be around in general), would you be willing to pay $10 to leave that room and go to one where there are different people that you may like better or do you stay in that room and suffer? I’d rather pay $10 and take a chance on new people if I know I don’t like being where I am already.

if I recall properly you are a smallish havoc guild? What works for you may not work for larger guilds when there is a higher chance of Anet suddenly setting the servers full mid-transfer. They have done this twice with no prior warning/knowledge since linking…

Loosmaster.8263:

Anet has attempted to fix the issue by linking servers and due to human nature it has just perpetuated the problem.

You want it fixed?

D E S T A C K and SPREAD OUT!!! otherwise kitten and quit complaining…

The opposite is what is happening though. The servers are consolidating, not spreading out. Spread out = spend more time, money and resources to be able to play WvW and not have many people there to help you out. There are not enough players in the game to provide enough population to remain competitive on all servers currently, So people huddle up together to even have enough resources and players to play with and against.

I used to be in Rethesis [RE] years ago … we moved to Kaineng with War Machine, RISE, WvW (I believe) Chaster Sharpshooters ocx guild, I forget what they were called but they all had amazing pve armor and dye jobs, a guild from south america I believe, one of the original HoD guilds and about 5-10 others…

with the purposeful intent on raising kaineng from last place to first (ferg’s was legitimately last during that time – but kaineng won the vote).

Then we all went our separate ways when we got to the TC zombie coast wall. and kaineng fell back down. It wasn’t right to do, but players do that for personal challenges or to see if things are possible. We as a population have been overstacking since the games inception.

<— part of the original problem, feels sorry about it … but made a lot of good friends along the way and realises its only game meant to be enjoyed so I’m not losing no sleep over it

so to the poster who keeps pointing out TW and OnS names around, stop it, because many people have been in the same shoes before. It’s not the fault of one or two guilds, it’s the fault of a mechanic allowing this to occur for so long that (the masses) took advantage of.

Not sure how to fix it, or if its even worth the effort

Liston.9708:

XTR.9604:

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

XTR.9604:

I wonder if you people realize that there are other servers outside of tier 1 lol.. Blackgate is only a problem for YB and TC. No one else cares, and if you don’t like fighting them – go transfer to a different server. Really, all of the complaining about Blackgate when you’re willing to do nothing about it is getting old. I can’t go in to a WvW thread without seeing someone crying about fighting Blackgate.

Come on down to T2 or T3, it is a lot more fun than T1. I can personally vouch for that as someone who was on Blackgate and transferred to a T3 server that became a T2 server (Borlis Pass/Fort Aspenwood.)

^This is true except for that fact that no tier is safe with this tier linking volatility changes. Transferring to another server at this point is dangerous.

Yes indeed, so wait until after Friday to decide where to transfer once the servers are relinked. I’ve transferred so many times, I’ve lost count. I don’t mind though, I go where the fun is. If it ever stops being fun for me on the server I am on, I go somewhere else. I don’t see why that is a hard concept for so many people to grasp.

If you’re trapped in a room with a bunch of people you don’t like (or don’t want to be around in general), would you be willing to pay $10 to leave that room and go to one where there are different people that you may like better or do you stay in that room and suffer? I’d rather pay $10 and take a chance on new people if I know I don’t like being where I am already.

if I recall properly you are a smallish havoc guild? What works for you may not work for larger guilds when there is a higher chance of Anet suddenly setting the servers full mid-transfer. They have done this twice with no prior warning/knowledge since linking…

Yes indeed, I have 20 total members but we usually only run 3-7. However, I do also run with [BEEP] who runs 15+ and have around 200 members.

The trick is, don’t wait. When you decide to transfer, everyone pull the trigger and move same day.

Don’t get involved with server politics and you will be a lot happier and have more fun.
Just go out and do what you like to do, best way to help wvw.

X T D.6458:

Don’t get involved with server politics and you will be a lot happier and have more fun.
Just go out and do what you like to do, best way to help wvw.

This is probably the best piece of advice I have read here yet.

There are some valid points in the OP post. Doesn’t change the fact that population is still going to win the overall matchup. Not that it is a reason to stay inside a tower.

We had a residual spike in population (I came back myself during that time a few months ago.) There are a number of games that launched recently. That is going to pull people. It is summer, folks are out of school here in the States, people are on vacation, etc. Many factors are at play beyond just the game itself.

This doesn’t change the fact there needs to be more changes from anet if this mode is going to survive long term. And I do believe they are trying. Attempting to preserve the type of play people enjoy is important. The easiest method would be to combine or blow up the existing matches into some other form. But then the folks who enjoy being on the servers other than T1 are highly likely to have to play in a way they don’t want to do.

Realize that there is a subset of people on TC who don’t want to be in Tier 1. There are people who like to roam and not blob up. There are people who would rather be having fun by role playing, killing people occasionally and ignoring PPT. So yes, that would fall under the category of disorganized. There isn’t a common server goal. I believe BG as a whole is more focused.

I do often laugh at people who continually say that PPT and score mean nothing. If that was true ignore all of the objectives and just go for kills. What you actually want is to have your Tier experience and fights too.

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

Sea of Sorrows, was bandwaggoned to in effort to make it rise from rank 9 to Rank 1 Tier 1. There has been countless efforts not to just make a server rise in a tier but also to lock a tier in general.

“Hell the majority of guilds that have moved in the last few years have been fight/gvg oriented guilds, most ppt guilds wouldn’t move unless the community got too toxic for them or they got good offers. "

The situation on BG was toxic and we wanted to end the toxic nature, thus we left. There was a huge difference in opinion and BG is better because we left and so are we. When OnS and TW moved we moved with 9 guilds total who each had many reasons for this all coming from Blackgate. Yet, we moved from BG and BG was still able to maintain and didnt even take a 5% of the hit TC took even though TC lost no guilds.

You are still seeming to be bitter and rather blame two guilds for your problems. You rather look at the past you don’t understand and try to correlate it to the present problems, even though the present problems have to do with this “Beta”. Even our recent move to TC had to do with this beta and not with “forcing” a server to Tier 1.

When you moved to YB you were basically bragging the entire time that you’re going to break the t1 ceiling, you brought that attention onto yourself, your guild, and your alliance. Like I said if you want to take credit for breaking t1 and starting a rotation, you gotta take the flack for the fallout of it too.

Yes I remember the first DB implosion to SoS, I went along with it, at the time titan alliance was breaking up and PRX moved to SoS too, free transfers was still around. In those days players were still figuring out servers and coverage was being highlighted with what HoD did, lots of servers were pushing for the top back then. Guild moves especially multiples moving at once have more impact these days than it did back then though.

I’m not bitter, I’m not in t1, haven’t had contact with your guild since seasons when BG faced SoS for a week, so I certainly have no problems that involve you or your guild, other than hey thanks for pulling YB out of t2 last year, was a bit late for my guild who already had moved down tiers but oh well. Haven’t had any contact with TW since they made an attempt in warhammer online private server a few months ago and then dods and Indo got banned.

Was just pointing out some things, most guilds move cause they’re bored and try to create a new fun environment for themselves. You guys moved cause you were also bored and also drama, but you moved to create some destruction going back to t1. You don’t seem to be a dense person, so I’m sure you realize the impact your moves have been having on these servers, and a lot of people just don’t view them as being good. Maybe if you and tw didn’t go around giving out so much attention to the yb move, people wouldn’t give you their attention when t1 went wrong, notice 7 out of the 9 guilds don’t get the blame?

But hey if you want to call me bitter as your defense to the call outs, be my guest lol.

Swagger.1459:

hobotnicax.7918:

The only reason GW2 WvW is still alive is cause there isn’t any alternative to it on the market. Which is sad on a whole new level since WvW in GW2 is utterly broken, dumbed down, forgotten for far too long and heading in the wrong direction with every patch.

And there will be, and Anet is underestimating things right now by not making stronger investments to wvw.

What’s worse is Anet knows this as well. Maybe they are being their secretive self and will drop some miracle wvw update with the next xpac, but I doubt that will happen.

But logically speaking and not emotionally speaking. Why put even more time, effort, and money into a dying cash cow? Wouldn’t you rather milk it for all it is going to give you before finally hitting the dirt? I mean all and all it’s just a investor/business decisions. Yes ANet knows it’s WvW and sPvP are completely screwed, so why put more then the bare minimal that is require to keep it self sustaining at a minimal overhead since not much of a return is in order?

People people, open your eyes and stop drinking the poisoned kool aide that stuff is just not healthy. No ignorance is not bliss, that is just a term thrown around by your masters to keep you complacently in the dark and very susceptible to being manipulated by them.

I now will step off of my podium.

Xenesis.6389:

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

Sea of Sorrows, was bandwaggoned to in effort to make it rise from rank 9 to Rank 1 Tier 1. There has been countless efforts not to just make a server rise in a tier but also to lock a tier in general.

“Hell the majority of guilds that have moved in the last few years have been fight/gvg oriented guilds, most ppt guilds wouldn’t move unless the community got too toxic for them or they got good offers. "

The situation on BG was toxic and we wanted to end the toxic nature, thus we left. There was a huge difference in opinion and BG is better because we left and so are we. When OnS and TW moved we moved with 9 guilds total who each had many reasons for this all coming from Blackgate. Yet, we moved from BG and BG was still able to maintain and didnt even take a 5% of the hit TC took even though TC lost no guilds.

You are still seeming to be bitter and rather blame two guilds for your problems. You rather look at the past you don’t understand and try to correlate it to the present problems, even though the present problems have to do with this “Beta”. Even our recent move to TC had to do with this beta and not with “forcing” a server to Tier 1.

When you moved to YB you were basically bragging the entire time that you’re going to break the t1 ceiling, you brought that attention onto yourself, your guild, and your alliance. Like I said if you want to take credit for breaking t1 and starting a rotation, you gotta take the flack for the fallout of it too.

Yes I remember the first DB implosion to SoS, I went along with it, at the time titan alliance was breaking up and PRX moved to SoS too, free transfers was still around. In those days players were still figuring out servers and coverage was being highlighted with what HoD did, lots of servers were pushing for the top back then. Guild moves especially multiples moving at once have more impact these days than it did back then though.

I’m not bitter, I’m not in t1, haven’t had contact with your guild since seasons when BG faced SoS for a week, so I certainly have no problems that involve you or your guild, other than hey thanks for pulling YB out of t2 last year, was a bit late for my guild who already had moved down tiers but oh well. Haven’t had any contact with TW since they made an attempt in warhammer online private server a few months ago and then dods and Indo got banned.

Was just pointing out some things, most guilds move cause they’re bored and try to create a new fun environment for themselves. You guys moved cause you were also bored and also drama, but you moved to create some destruction going back to t1. You don’t seem to be a dense person, so I’m sure you realize the impact your moves have been having on these servers, and a lot of people just don’t view them as being good. Maybe if you and tw didn’t go around giving out so much attention to the yb move, people wouldn’t give you their attention when t1 went wrong, notice 7 out of the 9 guilds don’t get the blame?

But hey if you want to call me bitter as your defense to the call outs, be my guest lol.

“When you moved to YB you were basically bragging the entire time that you’re going to break the t1 ceiling, you brought that attention onto yourself, your guild, and your alliance. Like I said if you want to take credit for breaking t1 and starting a rotation, you gotta take the flack for the fallout of it too.”

Breaking the Tier 1 ceiling does not equate to the destruction of ones community. A server falling out of Tier 1 does not equate to that servers destruction. You specifically choose to make them equal and even if they were, you turn a blind eye to the fact that if we are to be blamed for the destruction of servers then we should also be blamed for the directly for the health, stability, and protection of communities just the same. As we all are. After all, TW saved JQ, I organized Blackgate for 2.5 years as a main leader, my previous alliance was apart of the guilds who moved to SoS to stabilize them as well. The same crew there afterwards giving health to Blackgate. Then our alliance re stabilized Tarnished Coast.

This is simply because just by simple act of engaging in WvW, you are deciding the fate of another because we are all interlinked in a cluster of servers that can move up or down based off coverage and performance.

“Was just pointing out some things, most guilds move cause they’re bored and try to create a new fun environment for themselves. You guys moved cause you were also bored and also drama”
Correct so we moved for the same reasons.

“Maybe if you and tw didn’t go around giving out so much attention to the yb move, people wouldn’t give you their attention when t1 went wrong, notice 7 out of the 9 guilds don’t get the blame?”

TW and OnS had the attention way before this Thats why the other guilds don’t get blamed. Because BG sent TW to JQ to save its life with alt accounts with me as head leader and coordinator. As a matter of fact even before that the attention was on BG for being super stacked similar to how it is now. The only difference is now we get to allow Arena Net to do something about it where as before Arena Net was dead silent. It was the alt accounts and saving Jade Quarrys life that started even our alliance let alone the drama that later caused OnS to make OnSL and us to leave to YB.

Because we had the attention we used it and because I had so many contacts and friends I talked about it and because the community also utilizes the cancer forums and I do as well and the simple nature of them, I joked around and trolled openly and even made an Ultron avatar. Yet this is all perception and if you base your beliefs on them without proper understanding it’s easy to see why you would want to call a guild on purposely destroying a server when you don’t even know their intentions or the scenario at hand.

Common mistake especially in online gaming one that I’m correcting you on right now in fact. OnS has never sought out destruction of another server period. We play for fun and enjoyment. If you want to make us a villain because of this? well then you’re apart of our game that gives us an enormous platform in this community. One that’s enabled me to speak and recruit as someone pointed out earlier in this thread lol.

Mal’s that guy convinced him having fun is what makes him happy when really it’s kittening on someone else that really gets him off.

Sure you could just make your guild’s experience better by moving to a different server, but the real fun is the salty tears of strangers so let’s move 9 guilds to the server we know the rest of community will disapprove of most. It’s not wrong, evil, outside the rules, or an attack on our way of life. It was simply underhanded, unnecessary, antagonistic and cowardly. The kitten alliance is run by older middle aged men who’ve been through game cycles before. They stopped having fun playing games a long time ago it’s all about greifing and “power plays” now bois.

tldr: ANET still ruined GW2 that’s not on any player but some players are less than helpful when it comes to considering the experience of others.

Super Kruegs.8967:

Mal’s that guy convinced him having fun is what makes him happy when really it’s kittening on someone else that really gets him off.

Sure you could just make your guild’s experience better by moving to a different server, but the real fun is the salty tears of strangers so let’s move 9 guilds to the server we know the rest of community will disapprove of most. It’s not wrong, evil, outside the rules, or an attack on our way of life. It was simply underhanded, unnecessary, antagonistic and cowardly. The kitten alliance is run by older middle aged men who’ve been through game cycles before. They stopped having fun playing games a long time ago it’s all about greifing and “power plays” now bois.

tldr: ANET still ruined GW2 that’s not on any player but some players are less than helpful when it comes to considering the experience of others.

We don’t play for salt, its just a side effect that makes us laugh. This is also not about power. If it were Why would I give up all my power on BG?

MaLeVoLenT.8129:

Breaking the Tier 1 ceiling does not equate to the destruction of ones community. A server falling out of Tier 1 does not equate to that servers destruction.

I remember you saying that you hope JQ going down to tier 2 would lead to transfers from JQ SEA to another server. (somewhere on cancer forums) So basically the statement above is a lie or you have real trouble with your memory.
Meanwhile OnS never transfered somewhere alone, you always took guilds with you or players from other servers.

And the statement about TW saving JQ is stupid. Yes, they brought Commanders to NA, but they made a lot of people quit wvw with their stupid behaviour. TW was one of the reasons some NA guilds didn’t show up again. There was a lot of kitten talking on TS when TW was online. I don’t blame Indo, because I think he is an “ok” guy, but he isn’t TW. TW never cared for a server. They left JQ in the beginning and went to SoR, they left SoR while blaming the random players not being good enough. TW has no home, they go where they think it’s best for their guild. That’s totally ok with me, but that’s not the same as “saving a server”, this statement gets even more stupid when you recruit on JQ and leave to the new bandwagon TC a week later.

If JQ goes down, it’s ok, we don’t need someone who decides to “save our server” because he thinks it’s best for us.

tldr: You are not my president or my mom. So play your politic games elsewhere and take your head out of your kitten and start breathing again.

XTR.9604:

I wonder if you people realize that there are other servers outside of tier 1 lol.. Blackgate is only a problem for YB and TC. No one else cares, and if you don’t like fighting them – go transfer to a different server. Really, all of the complaining about Blackgate when you’re willing to do nothing about it is getting old. I can’t go in to a WvW thread without seeing someone crying about fighting Blackgate.

Come on down to T2 or T3, it is a lot more fun than T1. I can personally vouch for that as someone who was on Blackgate and transferred to a T3 server that became a T2 server (Borlis Pass/Fort Aspenwood.)

True story, I joined TC when it was in T2 (like pushing 7-8 months ago now before the stacking) because the fights in T2 were fantastic and overall the scoring and populations were pretty even with TC’s reduced numbers. Remember those < 15k leading score weeks? That period was the most fun I’ve had in years of WvW.

The problem is politics and transfers get in the way of this enjoyment. People get bored and shake up lower tiers while transferring down, throwing a wrench in everything.

Nobody wants to disperse and lose. That’s why you can’t have players make the decisions of who fights who/goes where without having very rapid re-adjustment of matchups to remove the incentive from stacking.

X T D.6458:

Don’t get involved with server politics and you will be a lot happier and have more fun.
Just go out and do what you like to do, best way to help wvw.

Says the leader of 70 man blobs who run down single roamers.

Right.

atheria.2837:

X T D.6458:

Don’t get involved with server politics and you will be a lot happier and have more fun.
Just go out and do what you like to do, best way to help wvw.

Says the leader of 70 man blobs who run down single roamers.

Right.

I am not interested in zerging down individual players, and I dont know anyone else who enjoys that. What I am interested in is defending my allies and any objective that might be getting attacked. The size of the attacking force is irrelevant if something or someone needs to be defended, I would rather you have to wp back to your spawn/keep and lose your stacks then get away and go back to attack w/e you were attacking when we pass. Same thing any other group does.

It might surprise you to know I actually do quite a bit of solo and small team stuff when I am not doing a guild raid. I have been run over by zergs many many times, and not once do I harbor anger towards them, they are doing what they have to do. You run into an enemy attacking something or that’s in the way, and your supposed to let them go? If your roaming is that what you do?

Also I am not the leader, that job is done by a more talented individual

A lot of people are in WvW because they have to be, e.g. for gift of battle now. They are not going to fight, they are not going to play as anyone else wants them to because they dont want to be there (and they feel let down by Anet for forcing them to be there).

Recognise WvW for what it is, a collection of many types of people present for many reasons.

Just try and have fun!

Bandito Baba.4921:

A lot of people are in WvW because they have to be, e.g. for gift of battle now. They are not going to fight, they are not going to play as anyone else wants them to because they dont want to be there (and they feel let down by Anet for forcing them to be there).

Recognise WvW for what it is, a collection of many types of people present for many reasons.

Just try and have fun!

So basically what you are saying is there are going to be a bunch of players who have no real interest in the game mode taking up a space on the field while we have players who actually want to play it sitting in Queue. So it boils down to having to trade an actual WvW player for someone who is unhelpful due to Anet thinking this is a great idea.

For example, you are in the middle of a basketball game and then these other guys start setting up a knitting club right in the middle of the court and for every person that is in the knitting club, they lose a basketball player from their team. While one side has 20 people in the knitting club and loses 20 players the other team only has 4 in the knitting club. So the team who lost 20 players is left with 15 people to actually play vs 31 people and the WvW players trying to actually play WvW should " just try to have fun?" when they cannot even play the game like that? if one team has 15 players and the other 35 and they are trying to fight each other, how are they supposed to be able to do that well when we have these Gift farmers taking away the spaces of actual players?

This is punishing the WvW players even moreso than the gift farmers here.

Incentive to destack a server is really easy to achieve, just a matter if anet want or not. Simply by locking the 6 largest servers and give the bottom 6 lowest server complete free transfer while opening the rest of the servers with 500 or 1k gem transfer cost. Then check the population by weekly basis and adjust accordingly. You can achieve a very simple way to destack. The word “free” itself is powerful enough.

^ Anyone remember HoD?

And why ya’ll following me onto here? Lol Go back to the other site. I thought I was on the other forum when I glazed over more text walls about Mal and alliances.

SkyShroud.2865:

Incentive to destack a server is really easy to achieve, just a matter if anet want or not. Simply by locking the 6 largest servers and give the bottom 6 lowest server complete free transfer while opening the rest of the servers with 500 or 1k gem transfer cost. Then check the population by weekly basis and adjust accordingly. You can achieve a very simple way to destack. The word “free” itself is powerful enough.

Why would " free" make people leave their server when they already have lower tier servers offering them gold to transfer on top of their transfer fees and they still don’t want to move? ( In addition to the fact many players already have multiple accounts on other severs)

You actually have it backwards. There is not enough population for all the servers left in NA. What needs to happen instead is to have less WvW servers. The only fair way to do this I think is for us to have PvE servers and WvW servers so we do not destroy communities.

What you have to understand is players move off servers because they are unhappy there. When they become unhappy with the server they are on, they have 2 choices, they can transfer or they can quit. If the only open servers only offer what already makes them unhappy ( sub par gameplay), they just leave instead. In the end, you will have ALL low pop servers due to players leaving all together due to unhappiness and the game will die. Players do not keep playing a game if it is making them unhappy.

Locking servers does not make players play where they are unhappy, they just leave instead.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

WvW is dead! All hail WvW!

Every time I see this thread =D

lil devils x.6071:

SkyShroud.2865:

Incentive to destack a server is really easy to achieve, just a matter if anet want or not. Simply by locking the 6 largest servers and give the bottom 6 lowest server complete free transfer while opening the rest of the servers with 500 or 1k gem transfer cost. Then check the population by weekly basis and adjust accordingly. You can achieve a very simple way to destack. The word “free” itself is powerful enough.

Why would " free" make people leave their server when they already have lower tier servers offering them gold to transfer on top of their transfer fees and they still don’t want to move? ( In addition to the fact many players already have multiple accounts on other severs)

You actually have it backwards. There is not enough population for all the servers left in NA. What needs to happen instead is to have less WvW servers. The only fair way to do this I think is for us to have PvE servers and WvW servers so we do not destroy communities.

What you have to understand is players move off servers because they are unhappy there. When they become unhappy with the server they are on, they have 2 choices, they can transfer or they can quit. If the only open servers only offer what already makes them unhappy ( sub par gameplay), they just leave instead. In the end, you will have ALL low pop servers due to players leaving all together due to unhappiness and the game will die. Players do not keep playing a game if it is making them unhappy.

Locking servers does not make players play where they are unhappy, they just leave instead.

Because golds are finite and being free itself isn’t, being free itself is a strong incentive to get people to move, either they move because…

• They want to regroup the scattered guild members
• They are looking for a new home
• They want to get out of full server
• They happen to join guilds on those servers
• And more

Then, when you combine with the linking and relinking process, even if you move to a supposedly low populated server, doesn’t necessary means you will end up with bad matches. So, it is not a bad trade for guilds or players that want to do it. What’s more, they are 6 free lowest servers to choose from, if not happy with that one, go another on the next week.

Also, linking is already decided so we will work with what we have now, arguing about merging is pointless. Even if you continue to argue about merging, the incentive to move people downward is still applicable, is just halving the number of servers from 6 to 3.

I have read about that your idea of turning existing wvw servers into pve, then getting people to choose a new wvw server. However, isn’t that itself being deluded? All that ever does is just giving the people a illusion that their server still exist but people know, they know their servers have been converted to PvE. It really is nothing more than a indirect way of deleting servers and creating new ones. You will still end up with issue of people complaining about communities and new servers being full due to the balancing rules set up for it.