Guild Wars 2

..the game is maturing and players are reaching end-game. they’ve found the class(es) they like and got their gear and appearance they are happy with and aren’t broke anymore, etc. Now they move on to PvP and WvW which is really the end-game for GW2.

The #s going up has nothing to do with WvW changes and has everything to do with the increasing average tenure of your player base.

GW2 WvW is a friggin awesome idea at its core. Just look at how much we all care, even pleading and begging on the forums to fix broken mechanics a YEAR LATER, and yet we are still playing the game despite how neglected we feel.

But why are we still playing? Because we know what WvW can and should be, and we are in love with THAT idea and it’s all of us collectively hoping it someday comes to exist that has kept us around so far.

In the meantime we have even attempted to create our own fun and competition to get us by; take fight nights and GvGs for example. Why did we? Because sPvP is boring and WvW is not competitive. Now those too are bordering extinction due to recent changes.

We are being forced to choose between either skill lag and queues or complete blowouts.

I feel that you’re making decisions based on WvW population #s that would have gone up anyway, and that if you could see a graph of what COULD HAVE been and compared it to reality, you’d realize how big of an opportunity continues to be missed here. Other games like ESO are watching you closely and learning from your mistakes. Lucky for you, there is still time to secure your game’s lasting place in the market. But I’m afraid that at this rate by the time you have enough “data” to realize what you need to do to fulfill the awesomesauce that GW2 WvW could and should be, everyone will have already moved on with prejudice.

TL;DR – your data is misleading you and the clock is ticking

I finished the game in the first week.

Your argument is invalid.
Come at me again bro

Rob.7624:

I finished the game in the first week.

Your argument is invalid.
Come at me again bro

“The #s going up has nothing to do with WvW changes and has everything to do with the increasing average tenure of your player base.”

unless you’ve found a way to un-play the game your argument makes no sense.

Solstice.1097:

Rob.7624:

I finished the game in the first week.

Your argument is invalid.
Come at me again bro

“The #s going up has nothing to do with WvW changes and has everything to do with the increasing average tenure of your player base.”

unless you’ve found a way to un-play the game your argument makes no sense.

Rob, in general, makes no sense.

Solstice.1097:

..the game is maturing and players are reaching end-game. they’ve found the class(es) they like and got their gear and appearance they are happy with and aren’t broke anymore, etc. Now they move on to PvP and WvW which is really the end-game for GW2.

The #s going up has nothing to do with WvW changes and has everything to do with the increasing average tenure of your player base.

GW2 WvW is a friggin awesome idea at its core. Just look at how much we all care, even pleading and begging on the forums to fix broken mechanics a YEAR LATER, and yet we are still playing the game despite how neglected we feel.

But why are we still playing? Because we know what WvW can and should be, and we are in love with THAT idea and it’s all of us collectively hoping it someday comes to exist that has kept us around so far.

In the meantime we have even attempted to create our own fun and competition to get us by; take fight nights and GvGs for example. Why did we? Because sPvP is boring and WvW is not competitive. Now those too are bordering extinction due to recent changes.

We are being forced to choose between either skill lag and queues or complete blowouts.

I feel that you’re making decisions based on WvW population #s that would have gone up anyway, and that if you could see a graph of what COULD HAVE been and compared it to reality, you’d realize how big of an opportunity continues to be missed here. Other games like ESO are watching you closely and learning from your mistakes. Lucky for you, there is still time to secure your game’s lasting place in the market. But I’m afraid that at this rate by the time you have enough “data” to realize what you need to do to fulfill the awesomesauce that GW2 WvW could and should be, everyone will have already moved on with prejudice.

TL;DR – your data is misleading you and the clock is ticking

" Other games like ESO are watching you closely and learning from your mistakes. Lucky for you, there is still time to secure your game’s lasting place in the market. But I’m afraid that at this rate by the time you have enough “data” to realize what you need to do to fulfill the awesomesauce that GW2 WvW could and should be, everyone will have already moved on with prejudice."

^This^ … exactly. If you follow any of the various interviews with the ESO devs, it’s pretty obvious that they are acutely aware of the major deficiencies in GW2 WvW (apparently more so than the WvW devs themselves) and are literally designing their game to avoid them. I loved Skyrim and I’m anxiously awaiting ESO …. BUT if ANet had actually made WvW what it could and should have been (balanced matches, capable of handling large numbers of players, updating content instead of extending the grind, etc) it is extremely unlikely that I would jump ship. As it is, I feel like I’m literally being pushed out the door by some weird combination of indifference and cluelessness on the part of ANet. If ESO lives up to what they claim to be doing, I’ll be gone and never look back.

Not just ESO, but Wild Star also.

Every time I`ve listened/watched something they`ve released, it is almost as if they`re having a dig at gw2 & then some.

Fully customisable ui (which considering how great Guild Wars ui was, gw2 is a an embarrassing joke.
Completely modable with mods already being created before game is even released.
From the sound of things the pvp is going to be good too, something which anet advertised/promised & has failed to fully accomplish by a long shot.
Arenas, with spectators that not only get to watch, they can join in in some form (someone stealths too long & doesn`t fight, viewers get to throw rotten veggies to kick them out of stsealth haha).
World pvp. /cheers
NPCs/bosses are able to be used/tamed or wtk they called it to help defend your areas in open world pvp.
Housing, farmable plots etc for those farmville fans.
Raids (heard this is some sort of large dungeon, I don`t pve ;p ).
& much more.

With ESO, Wild Star & a few others very close on the horizon, anet have to really get their kitten into gear or they`ll wipe on this boss.

bumping this for other people’s thoughts…

I should hope Wildstar is watching GW2, it’s made by the same kitten parent company.

Fishbait.6723:

Not just ESO, but Wild Star also.

Every time I`ve listened/watched something they`ve released, it is almost as if they`re having a dig at gw2 & then some.

Fully customisable ui (which considering how great Guild Wars ui was, gw2 is a an embarrassing joke.
Completely modable with mods already being created before game is even released.
From the sound of things the pvp is going to be good too, something which anet advertised/promised & has failed to fully accomplish by a long shot.
Arenas, with spectators that not only get to watch, they can join in in some form (someone stealths too long & doesn`t fight, viewers get to throw rotten veggies to kick them out of stsealth haha).
World pvp. /cheers
NPCs/bosses are able to be used/tamed or wtk they called it to help defend your areas in open world pvp.
Housing, farmable plots etc for those farmville fans.
Raids (heard this is some sort of large dungeon, I don`t pve ;p ).
& much more.

With ESO, Wild Star & a few others very close on the horizon, anet have to really get their kitten into gear or they`ll wipe on this boss.

You never seen ESO and Wildstar betas from inside, right? Because… well, all i can say is that you are too optimistic about them.

Just about everyone I’ve talked to has said ESO sucks, but I digress.

The great thing is that GW2, being the latest released and realized (FF still in that early stage) MMO, set such a low bar that everyone has such low standards… I mean look at those posters impressed with player housing and spectator arenas.

UnrepentantProcrastinator.7420:

Just about everyone I’ve talked to has said ESO sucks, but I digress.

I remember almost everyone on the Rift forums saying the same thing about GW2 before it was released, and that was back when Rift still had a pretty large player base. At the very least the ESO devs are TRYING to do the right thing … while ANet clearly is not. That alone will make me switch.

I haven’t heard of any new ideas of ESO and Wildstar. Would someone make examples?

Solstice.1097:

..the game is maturing and players are reaching end-game. they’ve found the class(es) they like and got their gear and appearance they are happy with and aren’t broke anymore, etc. Now they move on to PvP and WvW which is really the end-game for GW2.

The #s going up has nothing to do with WvW changes and has everything to do with the increasing average tenure of your player base.

GW2 WvW is a friggin awesome idea at its core. Just look at how much we all care, even pleading and begging on the forums to fix broken mechanics a YEAR LATER, and yet we are still playing the game despite how neglected we feel.

But why are we still playing? Because we know what WvW can and should be, and we are in love with THAT idea and it’s all of us collectively hoping it someday comes to exist that has kept us around so far.

In the meantime we have even attempted to create our own fun and competition to get us by; take fight nights and GvGs for example. Why did we? Because sPvP is boring and WvW is not competitive. Now those too are bordering extinction due to recent changes.

We are being forced to choose between either skill lag and queues or complete blowouts.

I feel that you’re making decisions based on WvW population #s that would have gone up anyway, and that if you could see a graph of what COULD HAVE been and compared it to reality, you’d realize how big of an opportunity continues to be missed here. Other games like ESO are watching you closely and learning from your mistakes. Lucky for you, there is still time to secure your game’s lasting place in the market. But I’m afraid that at this rate by the time you have enough “data” to realize what you need to do to fulfill the awesomesauce that GW2 WvW could and should be, everyone will have already moved on with prejudice.

TL;DR – your data is misleading you and the clock is ticking

The only reason hardcore wvw still play this game is because there’s no RvR game out there with this fluid combat system. The combat system of GW2 is the one thing that keeps the players stay. Once there’s a RvR game is out with better combat system and most important is a dev team that does not break their manifesto, I’m pretty sure 80% of WvW players will fly there and try it, and hopefully never come back.

The only thing remotely keeping this game alive is the fact that people are gullible, and they enjoy killing computer generated NPCs for gear grinding loot/mats.

The only thing keeping WvW’ers here at the moment is that there is nothing else out on the market with open world PvP/RvR (to my knowledge, and believe me I have looked) that is much better.

When you take these two points into account, you can begin to see why:
-The devs seems so utterly clueless in terms of WvW.
-ANET is pushing Living Story content like a drug.

Competition makes everything better, and until a game comes along and punches ANET in the mouth then things will only remain the same or continue to get worse.

It’s growing? I logged in after a long break and there were 2, count them, 2! people in my realms borderlands.

Rednik.3809:

You never seen ESO and Wildstar betas from inside, right? Because… well, all i can say is that you are too optimistic about them.

The developers have no interest in Wvwvw. There has been evidence of this all over the place. it’s no secret, they do not care not 1 bit. I hope the next game i play, the people behind it know what works and what doesn’t.

where is this idea, that wvw numbers are growing, coming from?

K U T M.4539:

Rednik.3809:

You never seen ESO and Wildstar betas from inside, right? Because… well, all i can say is that you are too optimistic about them.

It`s either me or the forums were playing up earlier.
Tried to reply to this several times earlier, kept coming up with missing text.
Ah well…

Oddly, I`m not remotely optimistic towards any mmos, courtesy of the flat out lies & mess that gw2 has contained from beta up until todays current state.

I`m just holding next to zero hope for gw2 as we`ve seen nothing done right for months on end now, even in warcrafts bad days it was never this bad, not even close /sigh

So instead of optimism, I`m left with hope, a hope that the new mmos have seen what happened to this game in such an extremely short time & over & over, that they`ll learn from anets mistakes.

Time`ll tell though

King Amadaeus.8619:

The only thing remotely keeping this game alive is the fact that people are gullible, and they enjoy killing computer generated NPCs for gear grinding loot/mats.

The only thing keeping WvW’ers here at the moment is that there is nothing else out on the market with open world PvP/RvR (to my knowledge, and believe me I have looked) that is much better.

When you take these two points into account, you can begin to see why:
-The devs seems so utterly clueless in terms of WvW.
-ANET is pushing Living Story content like a drug.

Competition makes everything better, and until a game comes along and punches ANET in the mouth then things will only remain the same or continue to get worse.

The game is “Alive” because people enjoy playing for fun. You know, parents, husbands, wives, college students who want to kick back and do a dungeon, world event, WvW, PvP, Living Story, guild challenge, etc.

This game does offer a variety of gameplay and has things to do. Gear Grinders, farmers, One Up’ers will always be in any type of online game, and they will always state the game is too easy, not enough to do, or too casual. Those types of players generally get caught in the loop of trying to be the best, beat everything fast, and then complain about it later.

This game isn’t perfect, but no dynamic online game is. Living Story has been mediocre (imo), but that doesn’t discredit the effort and other additions to this game.

Solstice is right in saying people are just now starting to “balance” out and finding their niche profession and gearing up. I am still meeting folks running masterwork/rare gear on their 80s and been playing since release.

As far as the new Bloodlust addition goes. I still feel it gives the stronger world even more power, which is why the first orb system was removed months ago. Adding the new cap points I enjoy however, it adds a balance for roamers who don’t have the coverage/manpower to cap other things in the map.

WvW still needs a lot of work to create a lasting balance however, and I hope to see progess made towards that going forward.

In conclusion,
You’re opinion on why this game is still “Alive”, is subjective and biased based on your personal views. The guild I represent is 490-500 members at all times and every vocal person in the guild plays for fun, and not to grind. Though select view do enjoy the gear grind.

EDIT: In regards to WvW, unless a dev specifically states that the average number of WvW’s has gone up, then I have no comment on it. As far as I know, people from lower WvW pop servers are hoping to stacked servers to get enjoyment of their preferred playstyle. Maybe this is casusing a spike in WvW activity?

Cheers.

Antara.3189:

King Amadaeus.8619:

The only thing remotely keeping this game alive is the fact that people are gullible, and they enjoy killing computer generated NPCs for gear grinding loot/mats.

The only thing keeping WvW’ers here at the moment is that there is nothing else out on the market with open world PvP/RvR (to my knowledge, and believe me I have looked) that is much better.

When you take these two points into account, you can begin to see why:
-The devs seems so utterly clueless in terms of WvW.
-ANET is pushing Living Story content like a drug.

Competition makes everything better, and until a game comes along and punches ANET in the mouth then things will only remain the same or continue to get worse.

The game is “Alive” because people enjoy playing for fun. You know, parents, husbands, wives, college students who want to kick back and do a dungeon, world event, WvW, PvP, Living Story, guild challenge, etc.

This game does offer a variety of gameplay and has things to do. Gear Grinders, farmers, One Up’ers will always be in any type of online game, and they will always state the game is too easy, not enough to do, or too casual. Those types of players generally get caught in the loop of trying to be the best, beat everything fast, and then complain about it later.

This game isn’t perfect, but no dynamic online game is. Living Story has been mediocre (imo), but that doesn’t discredit the effort and other additions to this game.

Solstice is right in saying people are just now starting to “balance” out and finding their niche profession and gearing up. I am still meeting folks running masterwork/rare gear on their 80s and been playing since release.

As far as the new Bloodlust addition goes. I still feel it gives the stronger world even more power, which is why the first orb system was removed months ago. Adding the new cap points I enjoy however, it adds a balance for roamers who don’t have the coverage/manpower to cap other things in the map.

WvW still needs a lot of work to create a lasting balance however, and I hope to see progess made towards that going forward.

In conclusion,
You’re opinion on why this game is still “Alive”, is subjective and biased based on your personal views. The guild I represent is 490-500 members at all times and every vocal person in the guild plays for fun, and not to grind. Though select view do enjoy the gear grind.

EDIT: In regards to WvW, unless a dev specifically states that the average number of WvW’s has gone up, then I have no comment on it. As far as I know, people from lower WvW pop servers are hoping to stacked servers to get enjoyment of their preferred playstyle. Maybe this is casusing a spike in WvW activity?

Cheers.

Your point essentially proves mine because it speaks to aspects in the game beyond WvW in a WvW forum. Like I said it remains alive because nothing better has come along to make it work harder to be better.

If you really think that people at ANET have been working kitten things that genuinely have improved WvW (key: improved WvW) then there is likely nothing we have to discuss further.

Because WvW is the only content that is intrinsically fun (despite occasional frustrations).

All other content either gets boring and repetitive quickly or is only “fun” because of rewards.

I believe there was a post back in april or maybe as far back as january stating that WvW numbers had grown significantly since the beginning of the game (which to some extent I could believe at the time, although it seemed somewhat questionable then), I think the data they were looking at was for a time span where some of the hardcore guilds broke off to some other games and stopped playing, but there were still people influxing into WvW at the time. So the numbers were sort of artificially inflated compared to what was really happening.

I would HIGHLY doubt the numbers have increased since then, I would probably say that more than likely there has been a SIGNIFICANT drop off over the past 3 months of WvW activity. Even T2 servers don’t have the population they used to. I know even MORE guilds have stopped playing or moved to different games. Roamers and some spvper’s I know are going to different games, Commanders are burned out and there hasn’t been an influx of new one’s coming in. IMO The game mode is dying outside of T1 and unless the course is corrected, eventually it will die out across the board.