Guild Wars 2

WvW is done. When T1 guilds are trying to scrounge up money so we can transfer guilds up just so we can have someone to fight you know it is the end. I don’t know how Anet could mess something up so badly. When your best and most enjoyable borderland map is Obsidian Sanctum… that is really saying something about how hard you failed in this endeavor. The new BLs are unplayable even without the ultra lag mid event going. And all you guys would have to do to start fixing this is remove these kitten maps, that were clearly designed around glider use yet we can’t glide, and put the old ones back in until the update. Even then it is pretty much too late. T1 prime time, can’t find fights. Dead, D-E-D dead.

What makes this all the more sad was that for 3 years WvW was this games most popular end game and Anet just let it rot. This was your kitten end game! How could a company mismanage something so badly? It is to the point that you have guilds leaving to play the extremely crappy Blade and Soul and Black Desert Online. Those games are not even enjoyable to play but people would rather grind Korean style than play the crap sandwich we have been given.

The worst part is that we all know Anet is ignoring this subforum and that everything we say falls on deaf ears.

Anet only cares about Esports now it seems.

and they utterly fail even at that.

EOTM is the new fight meta. Sad but it’s true. Last night all three sides must have been capped because the blob v blobs were like 80+ v 80+ and the fights lasted for the first 2 hours straight of the match. Haven’t seen fights of that scale in a long time. EOTM has been great for fights in general for the last maybe 5 – 6 months or so but it’s getting to the point that so many people are going there for it that it’s reminding me of when WvW was younger, healthy and active.

The fights are extremely fun and nostalgic but at the same time, a lot of uplevels and people completely new to the game are in Edge that don’t know how to listen to a tag. It makes it really frustrating when you’re the one commanding because sometimes you get a good zerg other times people just don’t want to listen. That and the majority of PUGs quit after only a few wipes which means these large scale fights only last until one or two of the three sides gets tired of being wiped which only usually takes between 1 and 2 hours.

I’ve been going to EOTM to vacation from real WvW at least a couple times a week since it was released and I’ve seen how it’s evolved from pure ktrain and fight avoidance to nothing but blood thirsty fightmanders hunting each other and running people down. If you want fights, albeit hit and miss in quality, go to EOTM. I’d much prefer it if people would stay in EBG or the borderlands to fight where there are more 80’s and co-ordination but my word won’t change everyone’s mind so I’m just letting you know where the action is if you want it.

Well it’s lamer guilds own fault. At least in EotM you see guilds that try to be something else than some cheap mans red guard.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

EOTM is the new fight meta. Sad but it’s true. Last night all three sides must have been capped because the blob v blobs were like 80+ v 80+ and the fights lasted for the first 2 hours straight of the match. Haven’t seen fights of that scale in a long time. EOTM has been great for fights in general for the last maybe 5 – 6 months or so but it’s getting to the point that so many people are going there for it that it’s reminding me of when WvW was younger, healthy and active.

The fights are extremely fun and nostalgic but at the same time, a lot of uplevels and people completely new to the game are in Edge that don’t know how to listen to a tag. It makes it really frustrating when you’re the one commanding because sometimes you get a good zerg other times people just don’t want to listen. That and the majority of PUGs quit after only a few wipes which means these large scale fights only last until one or two of the three sides gets tired of being wiped which only usually takes between 1 and 2 hours.

I’ve been going to EOTM to vacation from real WvW at least a couple times a week since it was released and I’ve seen how it’s evolved from pure ktrain and fight avoidance to nothing but blood thirsty fightmanders hunting each other and running people down. If you want fights, albeit hit and miss in quality, go to EOTM. I’d much prefer it if people would stay in EBG or the borderlands to fight where there are more 80’s and co-ordination but my word won’t change everyone’s mind so I’m just letting you know where the action is if you want it.

You know you got lucky with the instance lottery, right?

EoTM has the same population and balance issues as WvW, its just going at a much faster pace with the reshuffling of instances every 3h. I have been on plenty of EoTM maps where 1 or more server has given up and the strongest is karma farming the remains.

You mean RvR is dead becuse there no other rvr game type out there other then GW2 WvW and that not surprising becuse RvR never last all that long at high number in NA. Its just not a game type that has a long life becuse it going to burn ppl out becuse of the 24/7 game play.

Jski.6180:

You mean RvR is dead becuse there no other rvr game type out there other then GW2 WvW and that not surprising becuse RvR never last all that long at high number in NA. Its just not a game type that has a long life becuse it going to burn ppl out becuse of the 24/7 game play.

daoc is a clear example that this kind of gameplay can live over 10 years with monthly subs if you do it properly.

Entenkommando.5208:

Jski.6180:

You mean RvR is dead becuse there no other rvr game type out there other then GW2 WvW and that not surprising becuse RvR never last all that long at high number in NA. Its just not a game type that has a long life becuse it going to burn ppl out becuse of the 24/7 game play.

daoc is a clear example that this kind of gameplay can live over 10 years with monthly subs if you do it properly.

That good at all but daoc never was that big and it needed that sub fee to keep going with its pop. At the same time daoc was in a different gaming time where rvr was a comply new thing and with out other pure pvp games out there it has no real composition for both game type and from other pvp like mmorpg games. Times are very different now something like daoc (the old one) would never make it becuse its way too much time investment to have the number of ppl to keep it going.

The truth of things is its worth a lot more money to keep these games going (mmorpg) you need a good size pop to make it worth making/keeping it running. RvR at least pure rvr games do not have that power any more (all though they never realy did in NA its just not a popular game type).

I gave suggestions for over 3 years on this forum, maybe not all of them were great but all of them were ignored by Anet, even those in the CDI thread. I think they are seriously understaffed for their competitive modes, specially WvW.

WvW had the potential to be amazing but all that potential was wasted by a serious lack of vision.

Just one example of how they fail to see the potential of their own game mechanics: Combo Fields
Combo Fields are the root of cooperative gameplay in this game, they are THE only reason this MMO is better than others when it comes to large group fight.

What does Anet do: They release a first expansion after 3 years that has ZERO new combo fields. Yay?! It’s like they don’t play their own game.

It would have made a much bigger impact on WvW to have new combo fields than a huge new map where it takes 10 minutes just to get to a fight (already over when you get there).

Of course, new combo fields would have depended on communication between the people who designed the elite spec and the main devs. But some of the new spec were rushed so bad that the elite for tempest was designed between 2 beta weekends.

Only the Chronomancer got something new (Alacrity) and it’s not something other players can blast for a new effect.

That said, I’m out since last week after 6k hours invested. It was nice while it lasted, but for me a game is supposed to get better not worse.

Xillllix.3485:

I gave suggestions for over 3 years on this forum, maybe not all of them were great but all of them were ignored by Anet, even those in the CDI thread. I think they are seriously understaffed for their competitive modes, specially WvW.

WvW had the potential to be amazing but all that potential was wasted by a serious lack of vision.

If they are understaffed for WvW, it is because it’s a choice made by them to shuffling resources to work on other stuff. Now they can keep telling us lies, but at least someone is keeping a good bit of these lies in chronological format to see:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/40zzne/wvw_better_communication/

As you read them carefully, they are just full of fluffs and not much substance, everything is so vague about where things are with WvW revamp.

If you play EotM semi-often you know there is still a lot of people playing the massive PvP game. Had some good afternoon battles, big zergs. Gives some hope for the new WvW that is supposedly coming.

Dawdler.8521:

You know you got lucky with the instance lottery, right?

EoTM has the same population and balance issues as WvW, its just going at a much faster pace with the reshuffling of instances every 3h. I have been on plenty of EoTM maps where 1 or more server has given up and the strongest is karma farming the remains.

That’s what I said, isn’t <-(annoying censorship)-> it? They give up after an hour or two, that’s the unfortunate part. But for the first half of the match, there are good fights. It’s <-(annoying censorship again)→ hit and miss but I’m in EOTM often enough to know that there are good large scale fights nearly every single match.

Of course, one side is often stronger than the others but it’s not always a case of said side is steamrolling with no opposition. The other sides just have to work harder to wipe them.

It has the same issues, I wasn’t claiming it’s better than normal WvW. Just that if people want action, which is lacking in real WvW, you can find some decent fights in EOTM. Just passing the word along so people know where to go.

Jski.6180:

You mean RvR is dead becuse there no other rvr game type out there other then GW2 WvW and that not surprising becuse RvR never last all that long at high number in NA. Its just not a game type that has a long life becuse it going to burn ppl out becuse of the 24/7 game play.

Wow so you’ve moved on from white knighting anet to blaming the format itself once the failure became clear. Of course it would never be anything to do with anet’s actions…..

The kittened up every other game mode with the expansion, WvW just got the worst of it.

Xillllix.3485:

Just one example of how they fail to see the potential of their own game mechanics: Combo Fields
Combo Fields are the root of cooperative gameplay in this game, they are THE only reason this MMO is better than others when it comes to large group fight.

The irony being that comboing your own fields has always been one of the prime reasons for class imbalances and OP mechanics in WvW (Thief able to blast/leap through his own smoke fields being the perfect example).

ArchonWing.9480:

• Power Creep. Some guy walks into WvW, and dies in 2 seconds to a passing roamer. Sure, this always happened to some degree, but even your average noob could find some degree of solace in a blob and pretend they were good… oh wait 12k CoR. Oh wait that guardian’s out of stab. Oh wait, that black hole is pulling me in. WHAT THE HELL IS THAT AIR BLIMP DOING THERE? alt-f4

There’s also the fact that there’s been power creep in terms of personal power I think since the trait revamp when they got rid of stats from the traitlines and it hasn’t been clear or highlighted because they don’t show total attack value in the stat screen any more just the power stat.

Back at the beginning of the game a total attack value of 3000 was a goal with all exotics. Now with all ascended and plus whatever the base value is I’m reaching for 4000 on most toons. Its a 25% increase. I imagine there’s been some power creep in condi damage as well.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

It has the same issues, I wasn’t claiming it’s better than normal WvW. Just that if people want action, which is lacking in real WvW, you can find some decent fights in EOTM. Just passing the word along so people know where to go.

I have to agree, there is a lot more fights people going there nowadays since the servers are just bad anymore.

Jski.6180:

You mean RvR is dead becuse there no other rvr game type out there other then GW2 WvW and that not surprising becuse RvR never last all that long at high number in NA. Its just not a game type that has a long life becuse it going to burn ppl out becuse of the 24/7 game play.

There is, Google “Return of Reckoning”. Here’s a game that focuses on RvR, has over 700 during EU time. Don’t give up, CU, Albion, and Black Desert still have a chance.

Yeah our guild is all but dead as I am now the last one playing these days. Now that BG and JQ have teamed up to turn EB into a camp-fest roaming is dead.

The speed T1 went from fun to why bother happened quick.

I have had much better luck of late on the various home BLs over ebg. There are times where you can roam them and see no one but other times there can be 15 a side doing battle which happens to be the size of battle I like most.

These maps are not as bad as people claim once you get used to them and some of the boons you get from a keep if you control the shrines are just fun.

EBG can be all over the place. Some nights all three sides have healthy populations and others there only one large Zerg and the other two servers not to be seen. Once a certain hour of the day strikes the lands empty pretty quick.

babazhook.6805:

These maps are not as bad as people claim once you get used to them and some of the boons you get from a keep if you control the shrines are just fun

Once you get used to them its not so bad, once you truly get to know them you realize that the core flaws is still a major hindrance to gameplay. Theres no way around that.

morrolan.9608:

Jski.6180:

You mean RvR is dead becuse there no other rvr game type out there other then GW2 WvW and that not surprising becuse RvR never last all that long at high number in NA. Its just not a game type that has a long life becuse it going to burn ppl out becuse of the 24/7 game play.

Wow so you’ve moved on from white knighting anet to blaming the format itself once the failure became clear. Of course it would never be anything to do with anet’s actions…..

No not even close i am explaining the problems with RvR there in turn the same thing that wvw must deal with. Kind of a “ya this was going to happen becuse of the game type not becuse of GW2/Anet” and better to have more core groups and players for wvw then the mass that we use to have from this understanding.

RiP, WvW. May your PvE and E-sports carry you.

finito……………………….

Jski.6180:

Entenkommando.5208:

Jski.6180:

You mean RvR is dead becuse there no other rvr game type out there other then GW2 WvW and that not surprising becuse RvR never last all that long at high number in NA. Its just not a game type that has a long life becuse it going to burn ppl out becuse of the 24/7 game play.

daoc is a clear example that this kind of gameplay can live over 10 years with monthly subs if you do it properly.

That good at all but daoc never was that big and it needed that sub fee to keep going with its pop. At the same time daoc was in a different gaming time where rvr was a comply new thing and with out other pure pvp games out there it has no real composition for both game type and from other pvp like mmorpg games. Times are very different now something like daoc (the old one) would never make it becuse its way too much time investment to have the number of ppl to keep it going.

The truth of things is its worth a lot more money to keep these games going (mmorpg) you need a good size pop to make it worth making/keeping it running. RvR at least pure rvr games do not have that power any more (all though they never realy did in NA its just not a popular game type).

Actually the only thing that hurt DaOC was their thought they had to introduce PvE content to a game that didn’t have it has a design by nature. Meaning WoW was release and started to peel off subscribers. To counter they release Trials of Atlantis. Had some nice stuff but the whole master levels, artifacts, scrolls, gear, grind, and what not killed it. I recall doing raids back then for master levels taking 5 or 6 hours if not more…

Then you enter RvR with a master level 10, very few at the time originally completed it, and it broke the balance big time. So yeah, PvE hurt it. Notice how PvE usually means imbalance issues with PvP games? That is what we are seeing here also.

Anyway to the OP. RIP? Only die hard players, the regulars, like the drunks at a bar, will show up. They’ll/we’ll find enjoyment or try to regardless of odds. However, we’ll also tire out over time and close shop. Does that mean we go to EoTM or other games, time will tell.

Personally speaking I would have voted that Arena Net put money and resources to the WvW meta a year and a half ago. That is just my opinion though. Find away to make the format more evenly distributed with players across all time zones. Either by reduced score week, changing score calculations, build alliances, server merg, remove server score all together and focus on players, classes, guilds, and alliances. Lots of options, they know this.

Also what is hurting is that there really isn’t a solid WvW like format in other games. Sure, they have something. Or they have confined maps/arena’s battle grounds. But open world pvp on a large scale just isn’t really done. And, that would be due to balance issues like we are seeing.

I’m not trying to be a whiney wench. Lord knows I hate this weeks match up vs. Maguuma. Numbers are just nowhere near balanced when you field 20 and they field 200. Even solo you always run up vs. a pair.

Try to have fun, tomorrow is another day.

I suspect people will be yammering on about WvW being dead in this forum next year. People have been saying WvW is dead for years. It certainly is on the decline but it will likely take a very long time to die.

Well maybe WvW should die. When these pro blob “RvR” guilds go play their new RvR game WvW could actually be fun.

has much i hate megaserver, that would solve the problem, but then they need to make a continent with several maps NOT repeated where guilds/alliances could fight for their fort.

Jski.6180:

Entenkommando.5208:

Jski.6180:

You mean RvR is dead becuse there no other rvr game type out there other then GW2 WvW and that not surprising becuse RvR never last all that long at high number in NA. Its just not a game type that has a long life becuse it going to burn ppl out becuse of the 24/7 game play.

daoc is a clear example that this kind of gameplay can live over 10 years with monthly subs if you do it properly.

That good at all but daoc never was that big and it needed that sub fee to keep going with its pop. At the same time daoc was in a different gaming time where rvr was a comply new thing and with out other pure pvp games out there it has no real composition for both game type and from other pvp like mmorpg games. Times are very different now something like daoc (the old one) would never make it becuse its way too much time investment to have the number of ppl to keep it going.

The truth of things is its worth a lot more money to keep these games going (mmorpg) you need a good size pop to make it worth making/keeping it running. RvR at least pure rvr games do not have that power any more (all though they never realy did in NA its just not a popular game type).

yes, it takes money so generate revenue to sustain the service is important. But can you explain why does Anet keep pouring money into sPvP game mode that’s clearly failing, instead of another game mode that has way more population? The streams are not watched by many, and meta and class balance are terrible. It seems they are sacrificing WvW development and trying to force a successful venture in esport in sPvP, but everyone can see they are failing.

Straegen.2938:

I suspect people will be yammering on about WvW being dead in this forum next year. People have been saying WvW is dead for years. It certainly is on the decline but it will likely take a very long time to die.

WvW died when they changed the culling! Everyone knows this!

Dawdler.8521:

Straegen.2938:

I suspect people will be yammering on about WvW being dead in this forum next year. People have been saying WvW is dead for years. It certainly is on the decline but it will likely take a very long time to die.

WvW died when they changed the culling! Everyone knows this!

The only reason WvW still has people in it is that there is simply no other viable option for the RvR game type currently. If you want RvR, then you play GW2 WvW.

The instant another game demonstrates the ability to make and sustain a high quality RvR environment, WvW will empty faster than you can blink. So far, no game has managed this get. ESO was the only recent release that actually tried for RvR, and it was an absolute disaster for a lot of reasons. BDO is trying it, but has a lot of red flags that limit my enthusiasm. CU is still multiple years away, so we’re stuck here playing a game mode that has been neglected and eroded since launch.

GW2 blob guild players will just kitten real RvR players off in new game. You try to play GW2 wvw right way and blob guilds whine like babies. We wanna fight alone. Don’t use siege. Don’t hide keeps. Come outside fight. You talk about RvR and don’t even have any idea what RvR is.

Junkpile.7439:

GW2 blob guild players will just kitten real RvR players off in new game. You try to play GW2 wvw right way and blob guilds whine like babies. We wanna fight alone. Don’t use siege. Don’t hide keeps. Come outside fight. You talk about RvR and don’t even have any idea what RvR is.

CU in CU.

Jski.6180:

Entenkommando.5208:

Jski.6180:

You mean RvR is dead becuse there no other rvr game type out there other then GW2 WvW and that not surprising becuse RvR never last all that long at high number in NA. Its just not a game type that has a long life becuse it going to burn ppl out becuse of the 24/7 game play.

daoc is a clear example that this kind of gameplay can live over 10 years with monthly subs if you do it properly.

That good at all but daoc never was that big and it needed that sub fee to keep going with its pop. At the same time daoc was in a different gaming time where rvr was a comply new thing and with out other pure pvp games out there it has no real composition for both game type and from other pvp like mmorpg games. Times are very different now something like daoc (the old one) would never make it becuse its way too much time investment to have the number of ppl to keep it going.

The truth of things is its worth a lot more money to keep these games going (mmorpg) you need a good size pop to make it worth making/keeping it running. RvR at least pure rvr games do not have that power any more (all though they never realy did in NA its just not a popular game type).

Let me clear things up for you seeing as how you are … uninformed.

1. DAoC is still running, it’s older then WoW. I know its hard to believe but there were MMO’s before WoW.
2. In that era all MMO’s were sub based.
3. It did not lose players because of the game mode type, it lost players when they introduced ToA (PvE end game) and silly gear options that became a treadmill in them selves.
4. A large portion of GW2 WvW players came from DAoC because … it’s a popular mode.
5. Pure PvP games did exist, as a matter of fact I’ll point you in the direction once again of DAoC and the server named Mordred. I won’t bother mentioning UO because it might be before your time but that my friend was true hardcore PvP, if you died you lost pretty much everything.
6. You are correct that it’s a different era and people do have different expectations of MMO’s but assuming that WvW or RvR or AvA is not a popular mode is just your opinion and I would venture to say it is wrong, take a look at CU it was kick started by gamers donating funds and they quickly reached their goal. This shows that there is numerous people both NA and EU that want this type of game mode. Even WvW’s starting population throughout the first 1.5 years is a good example of how popular the mode is.

I spent years playing DAoC and I will be the first to admit they had their fair share of errors and mistakes, the game was not perfect by any means, with that said 15 years is nothing to scoff at so clearly that mode still has a market.

You are entitled to your opinion but I completely disagree that its a case of the mode not being popular, it is however a case of neglect and poor design choices and that is Anets burden to carry. They failed their WvW community in so many ways and they failed themselves imho. They don’t seem to be in any rush to fix their downward spiraling mistakes which just leads me to believe they will continue to fail and once they kill off WvW permanently those failures will start to spill over to PvP (it already has started) and PvE.

They need to set aside those enormous ego’s and humble themselves, though I fear it’s to little to late.

Rome.7124:

Jski.6180:

Entenkommando.5208:

Jski.6180:

You mean RvR is dead becuse there no other rvr game type out there other then GW2 WvW and that not surprising becuse RvR never last all that long at high number in NA. Its just not a game type that has a long life becuse it going to burn ppl out becuse of the 24/7 game play.

daoc is a clear example that this kind of gameplay can live over 10 years with monthly subs if you do it properly.

That good at all but daoc never was that big and it needed that sub fee to keep going with its pop. At the same time daoc was in a different gaming time where rvr was a comply new thing and with out other pure pvp games out there it has no real composition for both game type and from other pvp like mmorpg games. Times are very different now something like daoc (the old one) would never make it becuse its way too much time investment to have the number of ppl to keep it going.

The truth of things is its worth a lot more money to keep these games going (mmorpg) you need a good size pop to make it worth making/keeping it running. RvR at least pure rvr games do not have that power any more (all though they never realy did in NA its just not a popular game type).

yes, it takes money so generate revenue to sustain the service is important. But can you explain why does Anet keep pouring money into sPvP game mode that’s clearly failing, instead of another game mode that has way more population? The streams are not watched by many, and meta and class balance are terrible. It seems they are sacrificing WvW development and trying to force a successful venture in esport in sPvP, but everyone can see they are failing.

They are locked into eSportzzzzzzz. Who knows why. Perhaps one of the devs has a nephew that likes it or something. They could have launched PvP a little more like WoW’s PvP, but they like the 5v5 style. It seems that they should have put that money and development time into a game mode that has/had 100X more participation(or more). I don’t care to watch or keep up with their PvP tournaments, but isn’t it the same two or three teams at the top every time anyway?

3 teams worth of people are about all there is in the entire spvp community.

I left WvW once I was able to see the league ranks on all the players and still could not show off my rank unless in a squad, and that was added later. It was bad enough that my hard earned ranks in “real” WvW meant nothing once they introduced the EotM, but this was the last straw.

Maybe once they start treating WvW as a “REAL” part of the game I may come back. I still read the forums and do my dailies when I can find time, but the only time you will see me in WvW now is when my dialy includes “big spender”.

They don’t seem to be in any rush to fix their downward spiraling mistakes which just leads me to believe they will continue to fail and once they kill off WvW permanently those failures will start to spill over to PvP (it already has started) and PvE.

+1
PvP major balance issues. PvE all kinds of issues over there with HoT

WvW isn’t dead wtf you talking about.

Nusku.3941:

WvW isn’t dead wtf you talking about.

WVW may not be dead but its on life support and being keep alive with auto upgrades and meta events so considering those things I guess your right. But honestly here on Earth most people consider WVW dead. BTW what planet you from I want go there so I can find some pleasure in WVW again.

Oleman – SBI

Zoltreez.6435:

Anet only cares about Esports now it seems.

and they utterly fail even at that.

No, the reason for WvW failure is a complete lack of understanding by the WvW team. They’ve made some attempts, but they’ve all been wrong. I know they have a revamp in the works, but they probably are going down the direction of more gimmicks like they released in HoT.

I play wvw 5 × 2 hours every week. Our guild raids in desert borderlands and we have opponents every day. Somedays fights are fair, somedays we face zoneblobs.

Borders sure aren’t full but we do get a lot of action. Not much different from the old times in alpine bl.

My guild is located in FSP and our wvw events start at 20:00 CET and ends 22:00.

Fay.2357:

Dawdler.8521:

Straegen.2938:

I suspect people will be yammering on about WvW being dead in this forum next year. People have been saying WvW is dead for years. It certainly is on the decline but it will likely take a very long time to die.

WvW died when they changed the culling! Everyone knows this!

The only reason WvW still has people in it is that there is simply no other viable option for the RvR game type currently. If you want RvR, then you play GW2 WvW.

The instant another game demonstrates the ability to make and sustain a high quality RvR environment, WvW will empty faster than you can blink. So far, no game has managed this get. ESO was the only recent release that actually tried for RvR, and it was an absolute disaster for a lot of reasons. BDO is trying it, but has a lot of red flags that limit my enthusiasm. CU is still multiple years away, so we’re stuck here playing a game mode that has been neglected and eroded since launch.

I’ll agree with you on ESO, but your information on CU and BDO is way off. CU is not multiple years away from release, you must be thinking of Star Citizen. CU should be ready within a year. As for BDO, its not a RvR environment and Pearl Abyss never claimed it would ever be one. BDO is a GvG environment with open world pvp introducing events such as ‘the crimson battlefield’, castle sieges, and battling over nodes where your guild can collect the taxes. There’s no teams like RvR. It’s your guild vs every other guild, unless you manage to make a strategic alliance with another guild.

No one is forced to play a broken game. One simply chooses to play it. I suggest you research these games a bit more and a few others like Crowfall that will release in the near future. This way you’ll find you actually have viable alternatives to GW2.

Entenkommando.5208:

Jski.6180:

You mean RvR is dead becuse there no other rvr game type out there other then GW2 WvW and that not surprising becuse RvR never last all that long at high number in NA. Its just not a game type that has a long life becuse it going to burn ppl out becuse of the 24/7 game play.

daoc is a clear example that this kind of gameplay can live over 10 years with monthly subs if you do it properly.

Using the word ‘properly’ in bringing up DaoC RvR is a rather loose use of that term, but yea, I do agree with you…..they did a much better job of it than GW2

Random.4691:

Jski.6180:

Entenkommando.5208:

Jski.6180:

You mean RvR is dead becuse there no other rvr game type out there other then GW2 WvW and that not surprising becuse RvR never last all that long at high number in NA. Its just not a game type that has a long life becuse it going to burn ppl out becuse of the 24/7 game play.

daoc is a clear example that this kind of gameplay can live over 10 years with monthly subs if you do it properly.

That good at all but daoc never was that big and it needed that sub fee to keep going with its pop. At the same time daoc was in a different gaming time where rvr was a comply new thing and with out other pure pvp games out there it has no real composition for both game type and from other pvp like mmorpg games. Times are very different now something like daoc (the old one) would never make it becuse its way too much time investment to have the number of ppl to keep it going.

The truth of things is its worth a lot more money to keep these games going (mmorpg) you need a good size pop to make it worth making/keeping it running. RvR at least pure rvr games do not have that power any more (all though they never realy did in NA its just not a popular game type).

Let me clear things up for you seeing as how you are … uninformed.

1. DAoC is still running, it’s older then WoW. I know its hard to believe but there were MMO’s before WoW.
2. In that era all MMO’s were sub based.
3. It did not lose players because of the game mode type, it lost players when they introduced ToA (PvE end game) and silly gear options that became a treadmill in them selves.
4. A large portion of GW2 WvW players came from DAoC because … it’s a popular mode.
5. Pure PvP games did exist, as a matter of fact I’ll point you in the direction once again of DAoC and the server named Mordred. I won’t bother mentioning UO because it might be before your time but that my friend was true hardcore PvP, if you died you lost pretty much everything.
6. You are correct that it’s a different era and people do have different expectations of MMO’s but assuming that WvW or RvR or AvA is not a popular mode is just your opinion and I would venture to say it is wrong, take a look at CU it was kick started by gamers donating funds and they quickly reached their goal. This shows that there is numerous people both NA and EU that want this type of game mode. Even WvW’s starting population throughout the first 1.5 years is a good example of how popular the mode is.

I spent years playing DAoC and I will be the first to admit they had their fair share of errors and mistakes, the game was not perfect by any means, with that said 15 years is nothing to scoff at so clearly that mode still has a market.

You are entitled to your opinion but I completely disagree that its a case of the mode not being popular, it is however a case of neglect and poor design choices and that is Anets burden to carry. They failed their WvW community in so many ways and they failed themselves imho. They don’t seem to be in any rush to fix their downward spiraling mistakes which just leads me to believe they will continue to fail and once they kill off WvW permanently those failures will start to spill over to PvP (it already has started) and PvE.

They need to set aside those enormous ego’s and humble themselves, though I fear it’s to little to late.

Completely agree about DaoC. The ONLY reason DaoC is still running is due to its really good RvR. ToA tried to kill the game, and almost did……RvR is the reason DaoC is still around. I also agree with you, that when it is done right, WvW/RvR is a very popular mode of gaming with the mmo crowd. DaoC proved that.

This game will never have good RvR again. WvW has been destroyed beyond any hope of recovery, certainly not on a vague promise of “soon”, turning into “late 2016” turning into… never. RvR lovers like me will need to look elsewhere and hope another studio can do it right.

Ricepad.5249:

Jski.6180:

You mean RvR is dead becuse there no other rvr game type out there other then GW2 WvW and that not surprising becuse RvR never last all that long at high number in NA. Its just not a game type that has a long life becuse it going to burn ppl out becuse of the 24/7 game play.

There is, Google “Return of Reckoning”. Here’s a game that focuses on RvR, has over 700 during EU time. Don’t give up, CU, Albion, and Black Desert still have a chance.

Current RvR Options:
Warhammer online: Return of Reckoning
Planetside 2
Eve online
Elder scrolls online
Archeage
Dark age of camelot

Upcoming options this year:
Black desert online
Crowfall
Camelot Unchained
Life is Feudal
Albion online
Bless online
Star citizen

Plus a few others that exist in asia or upcoming as well, just have to search for them.

Also WvW only games can thrive in NA if they are developed and maintained well, there is a market for it, I don’t think games have reached properly into it as yet. GW2 will probably end up being the best still anyways because of it’s combat system, too bad it’s wasted.

Coinhead.7591:

I play wvw 5 × 2 hours every week. Our guild raids in desert borderlands and we have opponents every day. Somedays fights are fair, somedays we face zoneblobs.

Borders sure aren’t full but we do get a lot of action. Not much different from the old times in alpine bl.

My guild is located in FSP and our wvw events start at 20:00 CET and ends 22:00.

2 hours mean very little you know. 1-2 hour earlier yesterday – which I would consider beginning of primetime – FSP couldnt even muster people to prevent 2-3 man groups from roaming unopposed on JS border. Thats also while we had a 35 man queue to EB.

Its even more aggravated by the fact we know that French servers begin much later normally, lol.

The action on borders is in an extremely narrow timeframe. But hey, heres an idea:

Only keep borders online 19-23 (4 hours). The rest of the time, shut them down. Make the opening of borders sort of like a mini reset.