Guild Wars 2

Bah the WvW match-up threads have become the most entertaining part of GW2 lately.

I am going to go out on a limb and say the first reset after they get rid of the match-up forum the WvW discussion is going to be flooded with people making match-up threads and then the next week nobody will be left on these boards since we will all be banned =/.

lordkrall.7241:

For everyone thinking this is a bad idea, you know that there are rules on these forums right? And that rules are supposed to be enforced?

ANET watered down the importance of their own rules repeatedly. When you hand out infractions simply because someone used the report tool on a post, it means that 1) the report tool becomes more abused and more effort for the moderators, and 2) that those receiving infractions for outright silly things stop caring about the infractions, they become meaningless.

As for your other comment, that is laughable and not worth discussing.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Gyuforce.8291:

Lets revive Guildwars2guru!!!!!

The people at GW2guru would be fools to not immediately create a matchups subforum of their own.

They’ve had them for awhile i think http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/43-stonemist-castle/. I stopped using that forum when they decided to plaster it with ads and paid subs.

This makes perfect sense. Better to have this trash talking somewhere unofficial.

Ansilon.6230:

lordkrall.7241:

Jaxs.5830:

For everyone thinking this is a good idea, you know that no one forced you to go to those threads right? If you did not like or enjoy them, simply do not go to them, it would be like ANET removed them without limiting the rest of us.

For everyone thinking this is a bad idea, you know that there are rules on these forums right? And that rules are supposed to be enforced?

You also know that ArenaNet are responsible for what is written on these forums, and need to make sure that stuff that could be breaking actual laws are removed, right?

Because posting a .gif on a forum is breaking the law.

Because game developers are out to ruin their community.

There are probably some really offensive posts made in the subforum that caught the attention of another community that offended them or something. Yes, removing this is a HARD hit to anet but we can’t blame the devs for this, it was obviously someone way higher with all the money forcing this upon them and us.

Updated the backend to better give out infractions, but no mention of fixing the ‘search’ functionality of the forums.

Yeah, priorities.

I think this is a bad idea, ultimately this is a competitive game with aspirations of being an e-sport.

Rivalries and competitition need a way to goad each other, ultimately anyone with an ounce of sense doesnt take any of the flame wars seriously, it’s competative banter.

It’s the equivalent of football teams or hockey teams rivalry, post a disclaimer on that subforum for the faint of heart and leave it be.

I recieved my first infraction last week, I was replying to a thread in the PvE forums were the OP was full on ranting regarding the living story.

I suggested that he take a few months break if the game was causing emotional stress.

Infracted…

It’s getting quite ubsurd!

Mad Rasputin.7809:

Updated the backend to better give out infractions, but no mention of fixing the ‘search’ functionality of the forums.

Yeah, priorities.

This. And the subscribe has never worked once for me, no tagging functionality, can’t multi-qoute without making several windows. The forums here feel like something i would find on a 1990’s BBS. If i want to search this site i have to do it through google.

I get that they have to make the hard decision of shutting down the section, but honestly can’t possibly fathom what they expected to be other than exactly what it is. It’s PvP, for kitten sake.

I agree w what anet says, although a better solution would be to auto-generate match-up threads each week themselves, & then dedicate a cpl of ppl to forum moderation solely.
Kick kitten if ppl get out of line.
But, at least ppl will still have a place to discuss things respectably, &/or set up gvg & duels. Not sure how ppl can set up gvgs in obsidian sanctum without a forum to discuss it in, unless they already have certain ppl on their friends list from previous occurrences…
Give the reporting system some love, & then ppl won’t feel they need to use the forums for that type of thing either.
not sure what their budget is for any of these suggestions

Gyuforce.8291:

This is probably some corporate decision from the “brass” of arenanet…

There was probably some complaints to corporate and this was the solution…

I’m sure the devs that we all know and <3 hate the idea of this because yes, this is a bad thing for the game.

I’m going to disagree and say that this has nothing to do with a corporate decision. There’d have to be a TON of people packing up and leaving the game and citing the WvW forums being the reason for leaving. Corporate would become involved if they were hemorrhaging copious amounts of money. This is solely a community management team decision.

Could be wrong but I get the feeling that most of the devs have very little say in anything to do with things outside of game play and mechanics.

Gyuforce.8291:

There was probably some complaints to corporate and this was the solution.

I find this EXTREMELY unlikely. The forums are way over-moderated and are actually really tame by internet standards.

Hule.8794:

I feel sorry for those Anet mods that get fired right after Christmas.
That is the worse gift they will get in their life.

This is unfortunately the likely explanation.

It is so ironic that Birdsong (on a new account) started this thread…

The obvious solution has been ignored by all the people campaigning for the freedom to troll. Ban trolls from the match-up subforum. Stop messing around with warnings and removing signatures and crap. If you don’t want the forum to be toxic, don’t tolerate trolling.

First Troll: Banned from match-up subforum for 1 day
Second Troll: Banned from match-up subforum for 3 days
Third Troll: Banned from match-up subforum for 1 week
Fourth Troll: Banned from match-up subforum for 4 weeks
Fifth Troll: Banned from match-up subforum permanently

This way, the match-up threads don’t become a toxic cesspool. The bans are not forum wide, but merely removing people from the match-up threads who cannot speak respectfully to their opponents. Why should we let the minority ruin it for the rest of us?

Now the match-up threads will move to another site, and probably an unmoderated site, because that is what all the troll champions want. The match-up threads will be infinitely more toxic than they are now, and that toxicity might start to seep over into WvW itself, infecting the community and not just some threads.

I think it would be far better for Anet to retain control of the match-up threads, and use that control to remove trolls from the conversation. Instead they are letting the trolls win…

titanlectro.5029:

It is so ironic that Birdsong (on a new account) started this thread…

The obvious solution has been ignored by all the people campaigning for the freedom to troll. Ban trolls from the match-up subforum. Stop messing around with warnings and removing signatures and crap. If you don’t want the forum to be toxic, don’t tolerate trolling.

First Troll: Banned from match-up subforum for 1 day
Second Troll: Banned from match-up subforum for 3 days
Third Troll: Banned from match-up subforum for 1 week
Fourth Troll: Banned from match-up subforum for 4 weeks
Fifth Troll: Banned from match-up subforum permanently

This way, the match-up threads don’t become a toxic cesspool. The bans are not forum wide, but merely removing people from the match-up threads who cannot speak respectfully to their opponents. Why should we let the minority ruin it for the rest of us?

Now the match-up threads will move to another site, and probably an unmoderated site, because that is what all the troll champions want. The match-up threads will be infinitely more toxic than they are now, and that toxicity might start to seep over into WvW itself, infecting the community and not just some threads.

I think it would be far better for Anet to retain control of the match-up threads, and use that control to remove trolls from the conversation. Instead they are letting the trolls win…

Passive-aggressive trolls are the worst trolls….Everything is “trolling” now because people have no idea what it really is anymore.

Matchup threads (no matter what site) will always have a minimum 2 components:

1. Chest Thumpers. (Be regarding: PPT, Duels, Wipes, GvG, objective captures, Golem rushes, etc…)
2. People responding to them, which in a competitive atmosphere is usually not done in a nice way.

Just because Person A says: “Nice wipe at Hills” and Person B responds with: “Wow OMG your guild is horribad at this game, we wiped you so many times, look at our PPT”….

That does not make Person B a troll, if anything Person A is closer to being one…

titanlectro.5029:

It is so ironic that Birdsong (on a new account) started this thread…

The obvious solution has been ignored by all the people campaigning for the freedom to troll. Ban trolls from the match-up subforum. Stop messing around with warnings and removing signatures and crap. If you don’t want the forum to be toxic, don’t tolerate trolling.

First Troll: Banned from match-up subforum for 1 day
Second Troll: Banned from match-up subforum for 3 days
Third Troll: Banned from match-up subforum for 1 week
Fourth Troll: Banned from match-up subforum for 4 weeks
Fifth Troll: Banned from match-up subforum permanently

This way, the match-up threads don’t become a toxic cesspool. The bans are not forum wide, but merely removing people from the match-up threads who cannot speak respectfully to their opponents. Why should we let the minority ruin it for the rest of us?

Now the match-up threads will move to another site, and probably an unmoderated site, because that is what all the troll champions want. The match-up threads will be infinitely more toxic than they are now, and that toxicity might start to seep over into WvW itself, infecting the community and not just some threads.

I think it would be far better for Anet to retain control of the match-up threads, and use that control to remove trolls from the conversation. Instead they are letting the trolls win…

The problem with banning people is simple.
Stuff that I consider as light(!!!) smack talk can be really offending to someone else. And can be interpreted in many ways. If I start flaming random people on this forums, then I am 100% sure that we’re friends and I will get the same trollish answer back.
Anets moderation will say it was “toxic” or trolling and will ban me.

TBH: PvP-game forums are a smack talk area and everybody should know this. Anet doenst want to have those in the “Care Bear 2” froums and dont want to be asocciated with a toxic community in general.
Why? Probably because the lack of good’ol BALLS. Looks how Vavle handeled their “GIFF DIRETIDE” trolls. That was manly. And now 99% of articles and communities are praising Valve for being so good and making a fantastic game.

This is a stupid move.

Firstly, even if the sub forum is closed down, ppl will just post in the main wvw discussion forum, cluttering it up. If those threads are closed another new one will simply take its place. If you think closing the subforum will make the trolling go away, please wake up from your dream.

Secondly, most of the moderation I have seen is just plain unnecessary. I have no sympathy to ANet mod’s complain that they waste too much time moderating the forum. Its work that does not need doing. Just give the players the function the block another player on the forums, to down vote posts and the option to hide/see post with too low rating.

Passionate discussions are good. It means that players care about the game. The short sightedness that make you want to curb this activity is astonishing.

GW2 player:
“Hey doctor, I may have skin cancer, I have these large brown spots on my skin, can you check it out”

ANet logic:
“Just use make up, if you don’t see the problem, it will just go away”

That is my best summary of why they are taking the forums out. Not a big deal though, other games are on the horizon.

ptitminou.6489:

Not a big deal though, other games are on the horizon.

At least wait to say that when the games are actually good.

Vena.8436:

ptitminou.6489:

Not a big deal though, other games are on the horizon.

At least wait to say that when the games are actually good.

A game starts going bad when censorship within it increases. I have too much experience as a gamer so I notice these trends, but you can now benefit from it.

You know, I happen to own an online business.

If I ever wrote to my customers in the manner that Anet just did, I would simply have no customers. That post is going to be a burr in my side for the rest of my time in this game, and if someone tells me about another game to play, that post is going to help my decision to leave.

I am unaccustomed to being called childish and immature by a content provider. By posters, sure. Blanket calling by a content provider? No.

There are 4 choices for Anet with this situation:

1: Delete the forum. The issues here are that doing so will alienate players who utilize the forum to create content in the game for themselves. Its a place for me to go to the other side and discuss things that have happened, good or bad. That creates excitement, it creates competition, which in turn drives me to play more.

2: Lightly moderate/do not moderate the forum: In this case people would have to read “Toxic” Things. Gee I guess none of the moderators have ever played fantasy football in a public league. This would be my personal choice. Competition drives namecalling. Competition drives players to play, to want to be “Cool Looking” To Move to competitive servers, to buy your gems.

3: Hire 4x the moderators and kill all that moves. They could attempt to just squash what they do not like. Destroying the forum was a better choice than this. Doing this would have lead in the long run to more dissatisfaction.

4: Utilize an “Autoban” downranking system, Or an “Ignore” System. Doing this might make the most sense, using a very high number of votes for the banning, or simply having a ignore button. one push putting that player on ignore for the other player. Don’t like what someone else says? Ignore button. Simple. Auto filtered, non modded.

As it stands they made a perfectly happy customer pretty kitten ed off for absolutely no good reason.

Arenanet should not be surprised that the atmosphere of those forums became so negative, because they were the cause of it.

The league was designed in such a way that people had to go to extreme lengths to help their servers. People went nights without sleep, commanders were regularly hammered and insulted if they didn’t get results and many servers resorted to hacking, including DDOS attacks and organised E-Warfare on enemy communications.

People threw everything into winning the leagues and arenanet was encouraging them to do this with the promise of what seemed to be significant rewards and a very limited number of servers that could qualify for them. Had it been “top five” and not “top three” that alone would have taken a huge amount of pressure out of the system, especially as people already knew who would win and the real fighting was for the third place slots.

It bred hatred, desperation and frustration and that spilled over onto the forum posts in predictably large amounts. It was a bloodbath out there and the forums gave an indication of just how ugly it was getting on the battlefield and in guild/ server politics.

Compounding this was the fact that certain servers were routinely matched against one another. Seafarers and piken square on the EU, for example and those two servers are now rabidly set against one another because of this. Had the leagues seen fairer matchups, then that too would have taken off a lot of pressure. Instead old foes are routinely at one another’s throats with no end in sight and the current matchmaking system is going to add to that yet again.

If you give a pack of starving dogs a bone, you cant then scold them for turning on one another as they fight to get it.

ptitminou.6489:

A game starts going bad when censorship within it increases. I have too much experience as a gamer so I notice these trends, but you can now benefit from it.

You’re honestly just grasping for straws if you think that a forum that people can’t even agree on whether or not they want to remain, with plenty of people having long since abandoned it, being deleted is “censorship”. Its not even censoring opinions with relation to the game, its just people smack talking. If they shut down this(the main) WvW forum and GD, then you’d actually be talking about “censorship”. Otherwise you’re just using the word to blow a lot of steam.

I don’t agree with the move but I can certainly understand it, and, considering this is the internet, finding a place to kitten talk isn’t hard. But honestly saying “games around the corner” has been repeated ad nauseum here for ages, and the nearest thing is a premature cash-in being kicked out the door because of time and budget reasons.

Anet is free to make this decision as it is their forum.

However, it also comes across as a limp wristed, poorly thought out and the easy way out decision. The people who visit the forum are among the more passionate users and this heavy handed response will anger that group.

It appears that Anets management is more concerned about their forum than fixing their kitten game.

Vena.8436:

ptitminou.6489:

A game starts going bad when censorship within it increases. I have too much experience as a gamer so I notice these trends, but you can now benefit from it.

You’re honestly just grasping for straws if you think that a forum that people can’t even agree on whether or not they want to remain, with plenty of people having long since abandoned it, being deleted is “censorship”. Its not even censoring opinions with relation to the game, its just people smack talking. If they shut down this(the main) WvW forum and GD, then you’d actually be talking about “censorship”. Otherwise you’re just using the word to blow a lot of steam.

I don’t agree with the move but I can certainly understand it, and, considering this is the internet, finding a place to kitten talk isn’t hard. But honestly saying “games around the corner” has been repeated ad nauseum here for ages, and the nearest thing is a premature cash-in being kicked out the door because of time and budget reasons.

You dont see it because you aren’t used to analyzing customer reactions. I scrapped 2 years of development because of 10 comments during a beta for a web application and I’m rebuilding it based on that. And they were saying positive things too, but it started often with “I wonder if I can…” or “I wish I could” so that meant the interface was a total pile of crap.

If you look at that forum’s reactions, you clearly see there is a major flaw with the game mode itself. So instead of fixing the coverage flaw, they’re making it go away by making sure people stop posting about the symptoms it creates.

The sad state of the gaming industry comes from the fact that developpers want to be glorified and they see their customers as press critics so they don’t give a hoot about them. (you shouldn’t care about the press either, but players are not the press, even if they have a facebook page)

ptitminou.6489:

You dont see it because you aren’t used to analyzing customer reactions. I scrapped 2 years of development because of 10 comments during a beta for a web application and I’m rebuilding it based on that. And they were saying positive things too, but it started often with “I wonder if I can…” or “I wish I could” so that meant the interface was a total pile of crap.

I’m not seeing it because its not there. You’re misusing the word “censorship” which makes me think you’ve never actually experienced genuine censorship.

ptitminou.6489:

If you look at that forum’s reactions, you clearly see there is a major flaw with the game mode itself. So instead of fixing the coverage flaw, they’re making it go away by making sure people stop posting about the symptoms it creates.

They aren’t making it go away? This forum, here right now, has about five threads about the issue all of which are not going away, which will be reposted ad nauseum and which have nothing to do with the restrictions being placed on the match-up subforum. There’s a stark difference between pointing out flaws constructively and having your thumb stuck up your kitten .

ptitminou.6489:

The sad state of the gaming industry comes from the fact that developpers want to be glorified and they see their customers as press critics so they don’t give a hoot about them. (you shouldn’t care about the press either, but players are not the press, even if they have a facebook page)

Yes… thats why we have an Edge beta where we’ve been actively controlling what the devs do or do not do with the map. Because no one gives a hoot about us.

Developer =/= Community Rep.

Different departments, different people to answer to, and shouldn’t be confused.

ptitminou.6489:

Vena.8436:

ptitminou.6489:

A game starts going bad when censorship within it increases. I have too much experience as a gamer so I notice these trends, but you can now benefit from it.

You’re honestly just grasping for straws if you think that a forum that people can’t even agree on whether or not they want to remain, with plenty of people having long since abandoned it, being deleted is “censorship”. Its not even censoring opinions with relation to the game, its just people smack talking. If they shut down this(the main) WvW forum and GD, then you’d actually be talking about “censorship”. Otherwise you’re just using the word to blow a lot of steam.

I don’t agree with the move but I can certainly understand it, and, considering this is the internet, finding a place to kitten talk isn’t hard. But honestly saying “games around the corner” has been repeated ad nauseum here for ages, and the nearest thing is a premature cash-in being kicked out the door because of time and budget reasons.

You dont see it because you aren’t used to analyzing customer reactions. I scrapped 2 years of development because of 10 comments during a beta for a web application and I’m rebuilding it based on that. And they were saying positive things too, but it started often with “I wonder if I can…” or “I wish I could” so that meant the interface was a total pile of crap.

If you look at that forum’s reactions, you clearly see there is a major flaw with the game mode itself. So instead of fixing the coverage flaw, they’re making it go away by making sure people stop posting about the symptoms it creates.

The sad state of the gaming industry comes from the fact that developpers want to be glorified and they see their customers as press critics so they don’t give a hoot about them. (you shouldn’t care about the press either, but players are not the press, even if they have a facebook page)

Nah man, every forum for every game I have ever played reads just like this. Especially WvW/PvP Rock/paper/scissors type games. Everything including the trolling was the norm for this type of game.

It is 100% impossible to make everyone happy in an MMO. The majority of the player base does NOT go to forums, so when looking here your seeing either the fanbois or the trolls. The high and low points…usually.

And the fact that this is normal is part of what makes this heavy handed move by the corporation responsible for this content reverberate. My understanding was that this development team was old school. The same one that developed my personal favorite game of all time, DAOC. They should realize that all of this is normal. This “We are going to take away your toys” Move by them reeks of a new team with no experience. That worries me quite a lot.

Vena.8436:

ptitminou.6489:

Not a big deal though, other games are on the horizon.

At least wait to say that when the games are actually good.

Or Anet continues to kitten up GW2 so much that the others feel better

Easterbunny.6170:

And the fact that this is normal is part of what makes this heavy handed move by the corporation responsible for this content reverberate. My understanding was that this development team was old school. The same one that developed my personal favorite game of all time, DAOC. They should realize that all of this is normal. This “We are going to take away your toys” Move by them reeks of a new team with no experience. That worries me quite a lot.

This has been a corporate trend lately.

You can’t even smack talk on XBLive anymore without being banned because if you happen to hurt some 12 y-olds feelings and they tell their mom, you’ll get reported and temp-banned.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Or Anet continues to kitten up GW2 so much that the others feel better

Considering that they haven’t done anything to WvW in ages…

Vena.8436:

Easterbunny.6170:

And the fact that this is normal is part of what makes this heavy handed move by the corporation responsible for this content reverberate. My understanding was that this development team was old school. The same one that developed my personal favorite game of all time, DAOC. They should realize that all of this is normal. This “We are going to take away your toys” Move by them reeks of a new team with no experience. That worries me quite a lot.

This has been a corporate trend lately.

You can’t even smack talk on XBLive anymore without being banned because if you happen to hurt some 12 y-olds feelings and they tell their mom, you’ll get reported and temp-banned.

That’s not a bad thing.

styx.7294:

That’s not a bad thing.

I’m not saying it is, I am saying that this move is “trend-y” and not unprecedented.

Vena.8436:

styx.7294:

That’s not a bad thing.

I’m not saying it is, I am saying that this move is “trend-y” and not unprecedented.

I coulda done without the “It is disappointing” though. Don’t pay money to impress you, ArenaNet. And considerin that I’ve been a bit disappointed about design decisions in this game too, that really puts us in an awkward place where apparently we’re just standin around bein disappointed with each other.

styx.7294:

I coulda done without the “It is disappointing” though. Don’t pay money to impress you, ArenaNet. And considerin that I’ve been a bit disappointed about design decisions in this game too, that really puts us in an awkward place where apparently we’re just standin around bein disappointed with each other.

The community reps have a very odd “familial” tone they use that I’ve noticed. I think its meant to be taken as a “we’ve given you xyz chances at this” but it comes off like some sort of mother-figure scolding you for a getting a C.

Vena.8436:

styx.7294:

I coulda done without the “It is disappointing” though. Don’t pay money to impress you, ArenaNet. And considerin that I’ve been a bit disappointed about design decisions in this game too, that really puts us in an awkward place where apparently we’re just standin around bein disappointed with each other.

The community reps have a very odd “familial” tone they use that I’ve noticed. I think its meant to be taken as a “we’ve given you xyz chances at this” but it comes off like some sort of mother-figure scolding you for a getting a C.

What’s disappointing is the treatment of this community since day 1.

To expand upon this: Are we even supposed to be competing in WvW or is it kum ba ya time? Playing DAoC, everyone used the VN boards. I would see things every day that would make a sailor blush. No one even thought twice about it, we just ignored foul mouthed trolls and moved on.

VN boards best MMO community all time.

Aeonblade.8709:

What’s disappointing is the treatment of this community since day 1.

Ehh, I like the developers.

I barely post here though because of the moderation heavy-handedness. These last two days have been the first time I’ve posted in here in a long, long time. (I missed having my long verbal confrontations with Cactus.)

NightShadow.1429:

Personally I think they need to take a page out of Riots book. Have they majorly screwed up a time or two and have had to give a community apology (whether it be on something they said would happen and didn’t, or something they said that was insulting/border over the line), sure it’s happened. But their staff actually INTERACTS in a REAL AND MEANINGFUL way with the community. They engage, they talk things over, they post about what they’re working on, or their thoughts on balance ect. None of the “Hi there, we at ArenaNet…” No, they speak for themselves as a person unless of course it’s some announcement that requires them to say “Hey guys, this is what’s up”.

Now, I’m not saying that when staff here post, it isn’t meaningful. But it isn’t real, it sounds dictated and pre-written, not at all one human speaking to another. Also, can their forums get crazy? Absolutely… but for the most part, as long as we aren’t calling people out, seriously flaming or posting porn, we’re left along to have discussions. If you guys want this to be able to turn into an Esport, you’re going to have to get used to kitten talking, because it happens in ANY competitive environement. It’s what gets people riled up and rearing to go, it’s develops rivalries and promotes the competition.

This is Guild Wars 2, not Neopets, do I think people should be flaming/trolling or being complete kittenes? Not at all. Do I think the moderation and general tone of the forums could use a loosening of the steel grip it currently has? Absolutely.

Really? Is this how people in professional sports talk to each other in a game? At the Olympics? Or is it just a tradition we inherited from when video games were mostly immature boys?

It is the tone that is extremely odd and to me reeking of inexperience. I have never seen a content provider tell the people utilizing their content that they were disappointed in them.

I have never seen a content provider specifically state “You annoy us”. I have very often been able to tell a moderator was annoyed, but that’s a locked, thought out, corporate memo.

That is a really really weird tone for a corporation to take with their income pool.

styx.7294:

NightShadow.1429:

Personally I think they need to take a page out of Riots book. Have they majorly screwed up a time or two and have had to give a community apology (whether it be on something they said would happen and didn’t, or something they said that was insulting/border over the line), sure it’s happened. But their staff actually INTERACTS in a REAL AND MEANINGFUL way with the community. They engage, they talk things over, they post about what they’re working on, or their thoughts on balance ect. None of the “Hi there, we at ArenaNet…” No, they speak for themselves as a person unless of course it’s some announcement that requires them to say “Hey guys, this is what’s up”.

Now, I’m not saying that when staff here post, it isn’t meaningful. But it isn’t real, it sounds dictated and pre-written, not at all one human speaking to another. Also, can their forums get crazy? Absolutely… but for the most part, as long as we aren’t calling people out, seriously flaming or posting porn, we’re left along to have discussions. If you guys want this to be able to turn into an Esport, you’re going to have to get used to kitten talking, because it happens in ANY competitive environement. It’s what gets people riled up and rearing to go, it’s develops rivalries and promotes the competition.

This is Guild Wars 2, not Neopets, do I think people should be flaming/trolling or being complete kittenes? Not at all. Do I think the moderation and general tone of the forums could use a loosening of the steel grip it currently has? Absolutely.

Really? Is this how people in professional sports talk to each other in a game? At the Olympics? Or is it just a tradition we inherited from when video games were mostly immature boys?

Hate to burst your bubble, but that is exactly how a lot of professional sports players and even Olympians talk. Look no further than every time a fight breaks out on the football field between 2 NFL teams. It happens all the time.

If you think competition doesn’t breed competitive talk, I really don’t know what to tell you. It’s hard wired into the human brain to compete and be the best. Do you not find it amusing and even more rewarding when you crush someone who was just trash talking?

The heavy handed moderation/ no competition ever attitude is what bred this entire “Every kid should get a trophy just for trying in sports, even if they are overweight and a burden on their team.” Attitude we are having to choke down in society today. Life isn’t fair, and it never has been.

Aeonblade.8709:

Hate to burst your bubble, but that is exactly how a lot of professional sports players and even Olympians talk. Look no further than every time a fight breaks out on the football field between 2 NFL teams. It happens all the time.

The heavy handed moderation/ no competition ever attitude is what bred this entire “Every kid should get a trophy just for trying in sports, even if they are overweight and a burden on their team.” Attitude we are having to choke down in society today.

You may want to reconsider the example.

The NFL is a terrible example of allowing freedom of expression within its ranks, and has been getting worse in recent years.

Vena.8436:

Aeonblade.8709:

Hate to burst your bubble, but that is exactly how a lot of professional sports players and even Olympians talk. Look no further than every time a fight breaks out on the football field between 2 NFL teams. It happens all the time.

The heavy handed moderation/ no competition ever attitude is what bred this entire “Every kid should get a trophy just for trying in sports, even if they are overweight and a burden on their team.” Attitude we are having to choke down in society today.

You may want to reconsider the example.

The NFL is a terrible example of allowing freedom of expression within its ranks, and has been getting worse in recent years.

Yea I guess that’s true. Not a very good example but it’s what I came up with off the top of my head because most American players will identify with football more than any other example.

Also to clarify, I don’t condone just cursing at people and raging. I do condone the competitive spirit, which is mostly good natured.

styx.7294:

NightShadow.1429:

Personally I think they need to take a page out of Riots book. Have they majorly screwed up a time or two and have had to give a community apology (whether it be on something they said would happen and didn’t, or something they said that was insulting/border over the line), sure it’s happened. But their staff actually INTERACTS in a REAL AND MEANINGFUL way with the community. They engage, they talk things over, they post about what they’re working on, or their thoughts on balance ect. None of the “Hi there, we at ArenaNet…” No, they speak for themselves as a person unless of course it’s some announcement that requires them to say “Hey guys, this is what’s up”.

Now, I’m not saying that when staff here post, it isn’t meaningful. But it isn’t real, it sounds dictated and pre-written, not at all one human speaking to another. Also, can their forums get crazy? Absolutely… but for the most part, as long as we aren’t calling people out, seriously flaming or posting porn, we’re left along to have discussions. If you guys want this to be able to turn into an Esport, you’re going to have to get used to kitten talking, because it happens in ANY competitive environement. It’s what gets people riled up and rearing to go, it’s develops rivalries and promotes the competition.

This is Guild Wars 2, not Neopets, do I think people should be flaming/trolling or being complete kittenes? Not at all. Do I think the moderation and general tone of the forums could use a loosening of the steel grip it currently has? Absolutely.

Really? Is this how people in professional sports talk to each other in a game? At the Olympics? Or is it just a tradition we inherited from when video games were mostly immature boys?

I have worked in a few fields in my life and yes people do talk to each other this way. Its mostly good natured.

Hopefully it is not like it came as a surprise for them. Generally when you treat people like small kids, they are going to act like small kids.

So you create a broken game mode with massive population imbalances. Then you take away pretty much the only way to get fair fights in this broken game mode. The forums are great for setting up fights weather those fights are duels or GvG or open field encounters. This forum helped players semi fix this imbalance on their own by setting up their own fights. A competitive game-mode will create trash talk and rivalry which is good for this game. The best players will want to be the best by fighting the best. Anet just made this way more difficult. Why not as mentioned many many times make it 18+ with a fat disclaimer and let people go at it. If people want to care bear they don’t need to come here. I love when a guild/person smack talks on another server it gives us something to go after in-game when the match up is already over. I’ve made friends on other servers out of respect after we’ve had it out on these forums and in-game. I know for example i don’t like TC because of who they are as a community, and i only know that cause of these forums. But i have respect for certain people as they’ve stepped up to a challenge and proved they are a worthy opponent. It gives servers identities. TC is role players, Mag is the trolls, SOS and IOJ have great Aussie communities, FA likes to scrap and trash talk. It gave the game more depth and meaning as PPT is clearly no indication of skill only coverage. It let people fight out their differences and to get better. Two thumbs down for this move.

Super Kruegs.8967:

So you create a broken game mode with massive population imbalances. Then you take away pretty much the only way to get fair fights in this broken game mode. The forums are great for setting up fights weather those fights are duels or GvG or open field encounters. This forum helped players semi fix this imbalance on their own by setting up their own fights. A competitive game-mode will create trash talk and rivalry which is good for this game. The best players will want to be the best by fighting the best. Anet just made this way more difficult. Why not as mentioned many many times make it 18+ with a fat disclaimer and let people go at it. If people want to care bear they don’t need to come here. I love when a guild/person smack talks on another server it gives us something to go after in-game when the match up is already over. I’ve made friends on other servers out of respect after we’ve had it out on these forums and in-game. I know for example i don’t like TC because of who they are as a community, and i only know that cause of these forums. But i have respect for certain people as they’ve stepped up to a challenge and proved they are a worthy opponent. It gives servers identities. TC is role players, Mag is the trolls, SOS and IOJ have great Aussie communities, FA likes to scrap and trash talk. It gave the game more depth and meaning as PPT is clearly no indication of skill only coverage. It let people fight out their differences and to get better. Two thumbs down for this move.

My biggest problem with this first bit here “So you create a broken game mode with massive population imbalances.” IS:

I’d much rather read a bunch of crazy ideas about the fix for this than use it as an excuse to keep the match-up thread going. Also, broken is a pretty harsh term, there are far less broken bits to wvw than pretty much anywhere else in the game, this is IMO, it’s not like i’ve counted them and made graphs. But, it definitely feels that way.

I just can’t see a fix for population imbalances that won’t get exploited or end up making things worse. I think the hope is that they would have balanced out over time, but that’s obviously not happening.

This is a foolish decision….

While I think we all agree that sometimes (Most of the time) the matchup threads at some point degrade into a cesspool of bashing.

However……what happens when new players make forum posts in the WvW section about a matchup?? Citing the fact that there is no place else for them to make such a post?

Also…. since Anet has created these matchups would it not make sense to have a place for discussion on the topic??

If you are worried that the moderators spend a large amount of their time in those threads……what makes you think that by removing them….that those same people aren’t going to go troll some other threads in other forums that are going to cause more work for moderators across all forums?

When new players make posts .. your going to ask them not to create posts about their matchups in WvW?

Seems like a very short-sighted answer…not backed by enough logical thought and reasoning…..just when Anet started to actual pay attention to WvW….

Looks like Anet took the easiest solution to a problem. As always.

Vena.8436:

ptitminou.6489:

You dont see it because you aren’t used to analyzing customer reactions. I scrapped 2 years of development because of 10 comments during a beta for a web application and I’m rebuilding it based on that. And they were saying positive things too, but it started often with “I wonder if I can…” or “I wish I could” so that meant the interface was a total pile of crap.

I’m not seeing it because its not there. You’re misusing the word “censorship” which makes me think you’ve never actually experienced genuine censorship.

ptitminou.6489:

If you look at that forum’s reactions, you clearly see there is a major flaw with the game mode itself. So instead of fixing the coverage flaw, they’re making it go away by making sure people stop posting about the symptoms it creates.

They aren’t making it go away? This forum, here right now, has about five threads about the issue all of which are not going away, which will be reposted ad nauseum and which have nothing to do with the restrictions being placed on the match-up subforum. There’s a stark difference between pointing out flaws constructively and having your thumb stuck up your kitten .

ptitminou.6489:

The sad state of the gaming industry comes from the fact that developpers want to be glorified and they see their customers as press critics so they don’t give a hoot about them. (you shouldn’t care about the press either, but players are not the press, even if they have a facebook page)

Yes… thats why we have an Edge beta where we’ve been actively controlling what the devs do or do not do with the map. Because no one gives a hoot about us.

Developer =/= Community Rep.

Different departments, different people to answer to, and shouldn’t be confused.

On wikipedia it vulgarizes as:
Censorship is the suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by a government, media outlet or other controlling body.

Or the actual definition from merriam-webster:
: a person who examines books, movies, letters, etc., and removes things that are considered to be offensive, immoral, harmful to society, etc.

As soon as a message is deleted, it is censorship, no matter how ignorant the message was. The use of the word is not only belonging to the “evil communists” as CNN dictates. It is simply the action of suppressing something a person (usually in power) deems undesired. Undesired targetted deletion is automatically an act of censorship. It’s very hard to misuse a word with such a vast definition.

ANet is 1 body. I don’t care about their internal divisions for I am the customer. Be they called, community representative or developper I do not care. Why should I? I aint the one signing their paycheck. For all I care they could all be posting under the “Moderator” tag they use to anonymously close threads. I read what they say, not their names, not their titles. Perhaps they should engage in self-censorship too. Plus to hide their lies, they now “moderate” (that is censorship btw) anyone who dares call out one of their own by name, which is kind of funny to be honest as that would never fly outside the gaming world.

Looking at all the complaints about the game mode and seeing basically none of it was fixed in the past year shows they don’t care. You really can’t wiggle them out of that one as you can by saying “its not the same team” to deresponsibilize them as individuals and you are right on that, only wrong that you think it should matter to me. However, gratz to you on being able to tell them what flag to set on a BETA map…

It’s funny how the inability to properly moderate a sub-section of a forum is properly ‘solved’ by just removing that section altogether. There’s plenty of good solutions that are not quite as drastic and might actually make things easier for moderators. For example, posts that become ‘hidden’ when many people downvoted them (would require a downvote option), the ability to ignore certain forum users, etc. There’s plenty of good changes that are possible, just deleting the section is not one of them.

It’s like a class at school that has some problem children and the teachers are like “let’s just disband the class, sounds like the perfect solution!”

Aeonblade.8709:

Vena.8436:

styx.7294:

I coulda done without the “It is disappointing” though. Don’t pay money to impress you, ArenaNet. And considerin that I’ve been a bit disappointed about design decisions in this game too, that really puts us in an awkward place where apparently we’re just standin around bein disappointed with each other.

The community reps have a very odd “familial” tone they use that I’ve noticed. I think its meant to be taken as a “we’ve given you xyz chances at this” but it comes off like some sort of mother-figure scolding you for a getting a C.

What’s disappointing is the treatment of this community since day 1.

To expand upon this: Are we even supposed to be competing in WvW or is it kum ba ya time? Playing DAoC, everyone used the VN boards. I would see things every day that would make a sailor blush. No one even thought twice about it, we just ignored foul mouthed trolls and moved on.

VN boards best MMO community all time.

Correct, while playing DaoC we posted on the VN, not on any official forums. This only supports what Anet is doing.

kratan.4619:

Aeonblade.8709:

Vena.8436:

styx.7294:

I coulda done without the “It is disappointing” though. Don’t pay money to impress you, ArenaNet. And considerin that I’ve been a bit disappointed about design decisions in this game too, that really puts us in an awkward place where apparently we’re just standin around bein disappointed with each other.

The community reps have a very odd “familial” tone they use that I’ve noticed. I think its meant to be taken as a “we’ve given you xyz chances at this” but it comes off like some sort of mother-figure scolding you for a getting a C.

What’s disappointing is the treatment of this community since day 1.

To expand upon this: Are we even supposed to be competing in WvW or is it kum ba ya time? Playing DAoC, everyone used the VN boards. I would see things every day that would make a sailor blush. No one even thought twice about it, we just ignored foul mouthed trolls and moved on.

VN boards best MMO community all time.

Correct, while playing DaoC we posted on the VN, not on any official forums. This only supports what Anet is doing.

The problem with that logic is that the only reason the VN boards were popular was because there were no official forums. If that had been their stance on WvW discussion from the beginning, fine, great, it worked wonderful for DAoC. But they waited a year and a half, on top of telling us they were “disappointed”. It just reeks of a PR disaster, and I think Anet is a better company than that honestly. Sure we complain about fixes and updates, but at the end of the day, Anet is still one of the better companies out there to manage a game imo.

Aeonblade.8709:

kratan.4619:

Aeonblade.8709:

Vena.8436:

styx.7294:

I coulda done without the “It is disappointing” though. Don’t pay money to impress you, ArenaNet. And considerin that I’ve been a bit disappointed about design decisions in this game too, that really puts us in an awkward place where apparently we’re just standin around bein disappointed with each other.

The community reps have a very odd “familial” tone they use that I’ve noticed. I think its meant to be taken as a “we’ve given you xyz chances at this” but it comes off like some sort of mother-figure scolding you for a getting a C.

What’s disappointing is the treatment of this community since day 1.

To expand upon this: Are we even supposed to be competing in WvW or is it kum ba ya time? Playing DAoC, everyone used the VN boards. I would see things every day that would make a sailor blush. No one even thought twice about it, we just ignored foul mouthed trolls and moved on.

VN boards best MMO community all time.

Correct, while playing DaoC we posted on the VN, not on any official forums. This only supports what Anet is doing.

The problem with that logic is that the only reason the VN boards were popular was because there were no official forums. If that had been their stance on WvW discussion from the beginning, fine, great, it worked wonderful for DAoC. But they waited a year and a half, on top of telling us they were “disappointed”. It just reeks of a PR disaster, and I think Anet is a better company than that honestly. Sure we complain about fixes and updates, but at the end of the day, Anet is still one of the better companies out there to manage a game imo.

So Anet makes a mistake by having a WvW matchups subthread, admits that it is a mistake, they should still not attempt to correct it because “the horse is already out of the barn”?

kratan.4619:

Aeonblade.8709:

kratan.4619:

Aeonblade.8709:

Vena.8436:

styx.7294:

I coulda done without the “It is disappointing” though. Don’t pay money to impress you, ArenaNet. And considerin that I’ve been a bit disappointed about design decisions in this game too, that really puts us in an awkward place where apparently we’re just standin around bein disappointed with each other.

The community reps have a very odd “familial” tone they use that I’ve noticed. I think its meant to be taken as a “we’ve given you xyz chances at this” but it comes off like some sort of mother-figure scolding you for a getting a C.

What’s disappointing is the treatment of this community since day 1.

To expand upon this: Are we even supposed to be competing in WvW or is it kum ba ya time? Playing DAoC, everyone used the VN boards. I would see things every day that would make a sailor blush. No one even thought twice about it, we just ignored foul mouthed trolls and moved on.

VN boards best MMO community all time.

Correct, while playing DaoC we posted on the VN, not on any official forums. This only supports what Anet is doing.

The problem with that logic is that the only reason the VN boards were popular was because there were no official forums. If that had been their stance on WvW discussion from the beginning, fine, great, it worked wonderful for DAoC. But they waited a year and a half, on top of telling us they were “disappointed”. It just reeks of a PR disaster, and I think Anet is a better company than that honestly. Sure we complain about fixes and updates, but at the end of the day, Anet is still one of the better companies out there to manage a game imo.

So Anet makes a mistake by having a WvW matchups subthread, admits that it is a mistake, they should still not attempt to correct it because “the horse is already out of the barn”?

…what? They didn’t admit to anything. All they did was slap the player’s hands and say no pudding for you! And I don’t think having official forums is a mistake. It’s a boon to developers because they get hands on with player feedback rather than searching through 20 pages of some random board.