Guild Wars 2

Let’s get real. WvW is very fun and enjoyable for the winners. Take over the whole map. Kill a bunch of enemies. Get a bunch of badges. Gets tons of money. Fun fun fun.

But wvw is not fun the losers and outmanned at all. Lose the whole map. Died a bunch of times. Gets zero badges. Lose tons of money. Mad mad mad.

My server has been on both sides of the coin. Let me tell you is a night and day difference. WvW is simply a torture if your server is losing. You put in so much effort only to lose everything.

There are many other things, like siege weapons disappearing if you don’t use it once every 30 minutes. If your side is already winning and have spare men, then sure it is “easy” to man those weapons. But if your side is already losing and outmanned, every one of your guys are fighting and have no time to watch the siege weapons. So all this does is make life every harder for the losing outmanned side.

Another thing was the walls blocking the aim of the defenders. For a defender to hit his foes below, he would need to jump onto the edge of the wall. That makes him very easy target for pulling. So the wall offers very little protection for the defenders. The aim blocking should be for the attacks only. The defenders on the wall should be able to hit people below.

Anet really got to change things up to help the losing and outmanned side. Maybe give them a physical stat boost for being outmanned. It just seems Anet spent most of their game testing time on a winning team. They have very little idea of how bad things are for the players of the losing side.

It’s no fun when you have everything, and it’s even less fun when you have nothing… assuming that this is great numbers against few numbers.

Solo flipping resources that flip straight back gets boring quickly.

Perhaps they can control server populations better, so at any given point when outmanned is in effect the ‘zerg’ server can’t log in without some form of penalty (either time, or stat).

The problem is the outmanned buff itself. The current buff gives absolutely nothing to help with the problem of being outmanned. An increase in magic find, xp and karma is not what outmanned people need. Outmanned should get the old orb buffs or some actual combat/stat bonus that would help to make it possible for a small force to have a chance against a large one.

The only problem with Outmanned giving stats is when say there’s a solo roamer/scout running into his enemy server counterpart, should one have a stat advantage over the other because of people from one server being SOMEWHERE on the map while the other has little to none? Some may end up relying on this buff to help them win…say there’s an awesome 5v9 going on with the 5 having this stat buff. The five proceed to turn the battle to their favor after getting 2 of the 9 downed but then POOF somebody on their server joins the map and they lose their stats, and the tide quickly turns.

Current Outmanned giving a magic find boost actually helps badge drop rate, however they may increase the badge drop rate more, or give more and improved badge purchase options. Also I wouldn’t be too surprised if they introduced more that you could buy with Karma in WvW, making the current outmanned seem much more appeasing than its current form to most people if you could purchase ascended gear for Karma/badges but have a much higher drop rate of both with Outmanned. If that wouldn’t get people out there when the odds are against them then they might not be fit for competitive play :P

This isn’t sPVP, its WVW (resource claiming and holding). How many times have we seen a mini zerg bail out a 1v1, 2v2 etc..?

I’m in favour of outmanned servers gaining a guerrilla buff. If you look at it from a WVW point of view, it goes a little way to evening things out. Forcing parts of a zerg to have to go off and actively patrol.

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

The only problem with Outmanned giving stats is when say there’s a solo roamer/scout running into his enemy server counterpart, should one have a stat advantage over the other because of people from one server being SOMEWHERE on the map while the other has little to none? Some may end up relying on this buff to help them win…say there’s an awesome 5v9 going on with the 5 having this stat buff. The five proceed to turn the battle to their favor after getting 2 of the 9 downed but then POOF somebody on their server joins the map and they lose their stats, and the tide quickly turns.

Current Outmanned giving a magic find boost actually helps badge drop rate, however they may increase the badge drop rate more, or give more and improved badge purchase options. Also I wouldn’t be too surprised if they introduced more that you could buy with Karma in WvW, making the current outmanned seem much more appeasing than its current form to most people if you could purchase ascended gear for Karma/badges but have a much higher drop rate of both with Outmanned. If that wouldn’t get people out there when the odds are against them then they might not be fit for competitive play :P

Alright maybe in a 1v1 situation it won’t be fair. But when you are outmanned so badly you would die a lot more often, no matter your skill level. So how about remove all armor repair costs for the outmanned side? Reduce siege weapon costs? etc.

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

If that wouldn’t get people out there when the odds are against them then they might not be fit for competitive play :P

The buff shouldn’t exist like some kind of bait to get people to come out (after all once they come out the buff goes away, so they leave and buff comes back … see the vicious cycle you created?). Quite often the buff is during the so called night capping hours, a server just does not have anyone else to call to help out. The buff should be to help the side with fewer numbers to be able to defend and/or attack objectives.

Example: 5 people playing during off hours are trying to defend Overlook keep in eternal battlegrounds from being night capped by a 30 man zerg from another server. Those 5 people couldn’t give a flying fart about MF chance, XP or Karma, what they need is a buff that gives then a better chance to hold off the zerg until people start to log in again and both sides can field similar numbers.

Repair costs & cheaper siege for the outmanned is a good idea, I would add maybe a 10% passisve out of combat speed boost to allowing the smaller population to be able to get around the map faster while dealing with several forces hitting numerous targets at once.

Any server that is losing by at least 50,000 points should have the opportunity to summon an entire dispatch of Commando-profession NPCs to fight for them and generally cause chaos. This would only be available during the 24 hour period leading up to reset.

The summon would pull a large number of Commandos (let’s say 100-500) through space and time via the Mists and deposit them into each borderland and EB. They would drop siege to be built and roam around blowing up walls, sniping enemy players and critters at random, calling in air-strikes and generally being a pain in the kitten

The siege would be things such as helicopters, ballistic missile silos, airships, space tanks and orbital death lasers. Helicopters would take 400 supply to build, ballistic missile silos would take 1000 supply, airships would take 2500 supply, space tanks would take 4000 supply and orbital death lasers would take 10000 supply.

This would instantly make it hilarious and fun for the losing server.

wvw bonus’s.
Faster siege creation.
faster dolyaks
faster upgrade times.
supply bonus.
increased supply carry amount.
armor damage reduction on death

last ditch bonus’s when severely outgunned. lost all takeable keeps and such.
enemy radar near portal keeps.
teleport pads like in the Halloween event with enemy radar near them while standing on them.
no death penalty for a some time period. renewed at scoring.
other stuff…

Nuzt.7894:

Repair costs & cheaper siege for the outmanned is a good idea, I would add maybe a 10% passisve out of combat speed boost to allowing the smaller population to be able to get around the map faster while dealing with several forces hitting numerous targets at once.

Cheaper siege is terrible.

If buying: log in during off hours → buy everything at a discount → give to your guild to use during primetime

If building: log in during off hours → drop a bunch of golems → build them at a discount → hide 70 golems in your spawn while you wait for people to wake up

I’m not talking about a 50% discount blow out sale, I personally have enough to purchase at full price, and describe off hours ?

Server have different prime times, the current match I’m in atm has 1 server who has almost zero downtime, while my server is NA prime time, and the third server seems to be more oceanic. So what exactly are off hours to you ? Out of the 3 servers 2 of them are almost constantly outmanned.

In my opinion I prefer being on the losing team or “the underdogs” more than being the winning team, in fact I switched servers just to be on an underdog server. I like to be able to make a difference in the server that I cannot make in a dominating server I guess, but that’s just me. ^.^

When you can’t even get enough people to kick off the NPC breakout events, it defeats the idea of an MMO.

There is some merit in being a lone wolf… but it’s not really MMO.

Kerithlan.1659:

Any server that is losing by at least 50,000 points should have the opportunity to summon an entire dispatch of Commando-profession NPCs to fight for them and generally cause chaos. This would only be available during the 24 hour period leading up to reset.

The summon would pull a large number of Commandos (let’s say 100-500) through space and time via the Mists and deposit them into each borderland and EB. They would drop siege to be built and roam around blowing up walls, sniping enemy players and critters at random, calling in air-strikes and generally being a pain in the kitten

The siege would be things such as helicopters, ballistic missile silos, airships, space tanks and orbital death lasers. Helicopters would take 400 supply to build, ballistic missile silos would take 1000 supply, airships would take 2500 supply, space tanks would take 4000 supply and orbital death lasers would take 10000 supply.

This would instantly make it hilarious and fun for the losing server.

I like the idea about space tanks.

But my suggestion is this: the zerger server does not have a downed state.

To be perfectly honest……I prefer to be on the “losing” server. It provides better roaming for me.

Lets face it the simple fact is that Anet don’t give a hoot about outmanned why would they be concerned out the minority of the game as a whole.
Yes the bigger and better servers have more players 24/7 they are the ones spending the cash and enjoying what they reap from it.
It’s all down to the mighty buck in the end those who pay the most gain the most, it’s the way it is on any MMO that has a cash system.
Get the masses winning for that feelgood attitude that they’re willing to add a little extra to something that they enjoy, while the minority are left to wallow in the cesspit of worthlessness.
Anet have stated that they want “everyone to enjoy the game”, well my simple reply to them is put up or shut up with that saying and change it to “we want most to enjoy the game”

I’d rather fight opponents with an Outmanned+Orb buff than being forced to watch the Siegerazer card getting pulled every 10 minutes! That ‘Breakout’ event is starting to look more like an exploit than a mechanic in my opinion.

So I’d happily trade Siegerazer for Orb bonuses when Outmanned.

If you are so good , its boring.If you are so weak , its annoying.

It’s actually fun and enjoyable when there is equality.

If the outmanned buff increases ones ability to kill then guilds will field surgical strike squads in outmanned borderlands and blitz anything that costs money to upgrade.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Kerithlan.1659:

Any server that is losing by at least 50,000 points should have the opportunity to summon an entire dispatch of Commando-profession NPCs to fight for them and generally cause chaos. This would only be available during the 24 hour period leading up to reset.

The summon would pull a large number of Commandos (let’s say 100-500) through space and time via the Mists and deposit them into each borderland and EB. They would drop siege to be built and roam around blowing up walls, sniping enemy players and critters at random, calling in air-strikes and generally being a pain in the kitten

The siege would be things such as helicopters, ballistic missile silos, airships, space tanks and orbital death lasers. Helicopters would take 400 supply to build, ballistic missile silos would take 1000 supply, airships would take 2500 supply, space tanks would take 4000 supply and orbital death lasers would take 10000 supply.

This would instantly make it hilarious and fun for the losing server.

I like the idea about space tanks.

But my suggestion is this: the zerger server does not have a downed state.

Just imagine one of these walking up to knock on Stonemist Castle’s gate: http://onlyhdwallpapers.com/wallpaper/space_tank_robots_artwork_desktop_1600x1200_hd-wallpaper-33930.jpg

And by knocking I obviously mean vaporizing.

I would strongly caution against the outmanned buff being too good, because it may encourage more 5 man gank squads than actual objective taking. The problem is more with what a small group of 5-10 players realistically can do other than camp raid…and on the higher tier servers, they are often very good at squashing even that as a means to generate a few ppt and annoyance.

So what about Outmanned buff wil automatickly buff all towers/camp/keeps with +40 toughness (that guild window upgrade). Maybe more than +40, something like +100 toughness +100 vitality.
It will affect only defenders, so You wont loose towers so quickly while outmanned. It wont help You with attack, so no to blitz overtaking, it wont affect any cost of something.

There are a number of things the devs could do when outmanned buff becomes active (some have been listed here). This is an area where they have failed at since some things they could do would be very easy, a little helpful and at least help me by showing they understand that it is a problem that they are working on.

Question: someone above said outmanned magic find helps badge drop rate? I have read in the past that magic find does not help badge drop rate?

EnoLive.2367:

Lets face it the simple fact is that Anet don’t give a hoot about outmanned why would they be concerned out the minority of the game as a whole.
Yes the bigger and better servers have more players 24/7 they are the ones spending the cash and enjoying what they reap from it.
It’s all down to the mighty buck in the end those who pay the most gain the most, it’s the way it is on any MMO that has a cash system.
Get the masses winning for that feelgood attitude that they’re willing to add a little extra to something that they enjoy, while the minority are left to wallow in the cesspit of worthlessness.
Anet have stated that they want “everyone to enjoy the game”, well my simple reply to them is put up or shut up with that saying and change it to “we want most to enjoy the game”

My server used to be pretty good, and back then Anet would bring a game tester in our server once in a while. Now that we started losing, I hasn’t seen an Anet employee in our server for like 2 months.

Sure winning is more fun than losing. But these game testers are there to ensure the game is fun for anyone. They have no reason to enter the winning side at all, because winning is automatically fun. Instead they should have focused more attention on the losing sides and see how to make the game fun for them.

Anyone else have an opinion on this? This issue clearly affects a lot of people. Our team chat every night is filled with negativity. T_T

Where is this ‘tons of money’ you speak of?

Kerithlan.1659:

Nuzt.7894:

Repair costs & cheaper siege for the outmanned is a good idea, I would add maybe a 10% passisve out of combat speed boost to allowing the smaller population to be able to get around the map faster while dealing with several forces hitting numerous targets at once.

Cheaper siege is terrible.

If buying: log in during off hours -> buy everything at a discount -> give to your guild to use during primetime

If building: log in during off hours -> drop a bunch of golems -> build them at a discount -> hide 70 golems in your spawn while you wait for people to wake up

Fairly certain there would be a easy way to go around these issues.

Cheaper siege: Can only be placed while buff is on, etc. IMHO cheaper siege won’t make any difference, so whatever.

Cheaper to build: Just exclude golems if that’s a concern. Cheaper to build other stuff such rams, catas, ballistas, and trebs will go a long way helping low-pop in grabbing points and being involved.

You certainly don’t want to give superman buffs out because it’ll only bring out the gankers who have no interest in helping the server to take/defend towers and keeps.

Anything they could implement would be just a band-aid until transfers stop being free.

Boomstin.3460:

Anything they could implement would be just a band-aid until transfers stop being free.

Roll on the 28th of Jan and about time as well

Xavi.6591:

Where is this ‘tons of money’ you speak of?

Check prices on golems, trebs, etc. It would be ok if your server is winning. But if not, all that money goes down the drain.

And that’s on top of dying many many times in “unfair” 20vs40+ fights. Not to mention those “suicidal” rushes into the control circle of the keep to delay a takeover.

Of course your probably don’t see any of these, and have no idea what I am talking about, since you are from a winning server.

When has losing ever been fun??

zen.6091:

I would strongly caution against the outmanned buff being too good, because it may encourage more 5 man gank squads than actual objective taking. The problem is more with what a small group of 5-10 players realistically can do other than camp raid…and on the higher tier servers, they are often very good at squashing even that as a means to generate a few ppt and annoyance.

5-man squads would love to fight other 5-man squads. This is the most enjoyable form of PvP in this meta for many of us.

All buffs ( including breakouts ) should be based on total map occupation ( all maps combined ). I don’t see any reason granting a Server breakouts or buffs if they already own 50% of the maps. It is just silly giving them breakouts on another BL or BG.
Obviously the have enough manpower. The servers on the receiving end many times have not even enough people to get a breakout going.

Cosmic.6047:

All buffs ( including breakouts ) should be based on total map occupation ( all maps combined ). I don’t see any reason granting a Server breakouts or buffs if they already own 50% of the maps. It is just silly giving them breakouts on another BL or BG.
Obviously the have enough manpower. The servers on the receiving end many times have not even enough people to get a breakout going.

Agreed. At one point in time I saw a 40 man zerg doing the breakout event with Siegerazer just for the free supply and to cap a tower that was defended by (at most) 5 defenders. Heck, they even had a Mesmer lying dead inside the tower at the door so they could revive him from the other side.

EnoLive.2367:

Lets face it the simple fact is that Anet don’t give a hoot about outmanned why would they be concerned out the minority of the game as a whole.
Yes the bigger and better servers have more players 24/7 they are the ones spending the cash and enjoying what they reap from it.
It’s all down to the mighty buck in the end those who pay the most gain the most, it’s the way it is on any MMO that has a cash system.
Get the masses winning for that feelgood attitude that they’re willing to add a little extra to something that they enjoy, while the minority are left to wallow in the cesspit of worthlessness.
Anet have stated that they want “everyone to enjoy the game”, well my simple reply to them is put up or shut up with that saying and change it to “we want most to enjoy the game”

This is very cynical, but unfortunately also so very true. :|

Anyway. Making the outmanned buff give stats bonus is a lazy “chewing gum” solution. WvW has so many fundamental design flaws that no simple solution is going to fix it.

One of the most elementary flaws is the naive assumption that everyone wants to play for some common goal. Hell, maybe I want to be an outlaw and just rob everyone on sight. Or maybe a mercenary who works for whoever pays the most.
But no, none of these are possible in gw2. It is automatically assumed that you want to be a loyal soldier and friend of your home server. Ughh, makes me wanna poke.