Guild Wars 2

We probably all know that there are some servers who are not that good at fighting, though succeeding with the night guilds.
This trend have led alot of servers to buy guilds from NA to transfer into EU and fight at night so they remain high.

I know that simply blocking WvW in night time would be good for a majority of people, but it is too……wrong, the idea of blocking people from gametime because their time zone is incorrect is simply wrong, even though only a minority of people do happen to be in EU and play on another time. Though my servers commander have been on for 17 hours so we can at least have a somewhat decent chance against 2 other servers last week.

My question is……

1

Why dont they just block of borderlands? They are all rather familiar and most would rather join EB

I honestly do see a small problem with closing some borderlands, since the gameplay will be limited to some, which always bothered me in other games……..

2

Or set a point system, so that the points gathered from prime time (“x time” to “x time”) gives more points.

~This would intrigue people with amazing players and commanders to play more, since there is a real chance, not the usual, get on and win almost every fight on the first day at equal numbers be like 4k ahead in points and suddenly lose it all in night time.~
I Do Not see a problem in having a different point system, the player base would not have any form of limitation, this have been one of the major problems in wvw, and seems like it could be fixed with 1 thing……The only persons I see not liking this idea is either the servers who do have night guilds from other regions to fight for them, or people who have spend money on those night guilds…….

Btw, WvW was my Nr. 1 concern at release, they said that you could join 24/7 that got me and alot of critic players thinking that it might cause such an effect, that instead of WvW being fighting for a realm, it is simply all about who got the money to buy the players from NA.

If differentiating the point system at night vs at morning is a problem for some players, please tell me.

don’t forget EU server with multiple time zone… Witch timezone will you choose ?
Nop, wvw is 24/24… Not only during day…

This has been talked through, roughly 100 times in these forums already from the very beginning of this game till this day.

Always with the same conclusion.

Primetime is personal thing for everyone. Ones primetime is anothers offtime. Everyones time should be equally valued. In EU this is not that big thing, but in NA where a lot of SEA players play as well, is seen better. Their primetime is night time of NA. And no, there is no servers dedicated for SEA so they would be less valued all the time.

Some people suggest that the points are calculated through the amount of players currently in WvW. But this could lead into point manipulation by trying to achieve as much points as possible and then not appearing in WvW reducing the amount of players and thus the amount of points the enemy can get.

I suppose there was more conclusions as well in the threads but those were the biggest two things I can remember.

On this matter, my suggestion again is to cut the week-long match to a 24-hour match.
The current advantage from off-hour is not just PPT but the upgraded structures that get carried deeper and deeper into the match, especially after the population starts to decrease on weekdays.

Maybe we can try break it down to weekend match and weekday match first.

Sich.7103:

don’t forget EU server with multiple time zone… Witch timezone will you choose ?
Nop, wvw is 24/24… Not only during day…

EU is fine with maybe 2 hours swinging either way, US is far worse (especially if you take into account SEA).

For EU I do not see any real issues with doing something like this:
EB open 24/7
Border 1 close at 23:00 (times in gmt or whatever, its just an idea)
Border 2 close at 01:00
Border 3 close at 03:00
Border 1 open at 07:00
Border 2 open at 12:00
Border 3 open at 17:00

But since this cant be applied to US server (which is what, 7 hours difference across?) then its a bad solution overall. I still dont have a clue how to really regulate points during night time.

The only “fair” thing I have come up with is to somehow modify PPT based on border presence. I think that some good stage rules could be this:

“Warzone”
Total population >= 50% and no side is outmanned. PPT = 100%

“Skirmish”
Total population > 25% or at least one side is outmanned. PPT = 50%

“Nighttime”
Total population <= 25%. PPT = 25%

*Note that PPT would mean keep/tower PPT, player points would still be the same no matter the stage.

Yeah in EU the time zones don’t differ that much, so using that as an excuse is simply wrong (Even if you dont know the different time zones is like 3 hours between, you still can even see in megaservers that it is empty on night time, no one is doing dungeons).

In NA however it does, so closing borderlands is probably not an option in any way……I never wanted it to be anyways.

Back to my question, if you could get more points during 12:00-03:00 (server time) or something like that, would it in anyway make the game worse for the players who are on other geographical regions of the world?

This suggestion wouldn’t work. Not only is there the issue with different time zones, the other is with maybe NA players playing in EU, because they might have friends there or something or the other way around. Also non EU/NA players might also wanna play on either EU or NA. Also there are those ppl who have different work schedules. They might only be able to play in night time. Now ANet is to limit their game content, because they happen to have another time table than the rest of the players? That is simply out of the question.

zengara.8301:

Back to my question, if you could get more points during 12:00-03:00 (server time) or something like that, would it in anyway make the game worse for the players who are on other geographical regions of the world?

Yes it would. It would basically say: No matter how much you do here in WvW, your efforts will benefit your server less than the more privileged player’s efforts during “day”.

zengara.8301:

1

Why dont they just block of borderlands? They are all rather familiar and most would rather join EB

Personally I try to avoid EB most of the time – too many people willing to give up everything they hold on the border just to flip SM for 4 minutes BETWEEN ticks

zengara.8301:

2
If differentiating the point system at night vs at morning is a problem for some players, please tell me.

Are you going to tell someone who works odd hours or is posted away from home that they are worth less than you are?
I have some friends who used to live within an hour’s drive from my house in the UK – they have been posted to Canada for 3 years and all play GW2. Do you think it is fair to tell them “Hey, I know it wasn’t your choice to move to a NA time zone, but because you have moved I think that you are worth less than me”?
Personally I don’t think so, do you?

Nidome.1365:

zengara.8301:

1

Why dont they just block of borderlands? They are all rather familiar and most would rather join EB

Personally I try to avoid EB most of the time – too many people willing to give up everything they hold on the border just to flip SM for 4 minutes BETWEEN ticks

zengara.8301:

2
If differentiating the point system at night vs at morning is a problem for some players, please tell me.

Are you going to tell someone who works odd hours or is posted away from home that they are worth less than you are?
I have some friends who used to live within an hour’s drive from my house in the UK – they have been posted to Canada for 3 years and all play GW2. Do you think it is fair to tell them “Hey, I know it wasn’t your choice to move to a NA time zone, but because you have moved I think that you are worth less than me”?
Personally I don’t think so, do you?

The idea of closing off the BL is not right. That would truly be limiting someones play experience at a certain time.

But I’ve never agreeed with the argument that to adjust the scoring according to population means that the people at low population times are somehow being punished or that its saying they’re worth less. Actually the way it is now its the people who play at high and equal population times that are worth less. Their efforts don’t count as much as someone who plays at off hours and can just dominate without opposition.

It’ll never happen though. Too many people do subscribe to that thinking so Anet will never do anything.

Although why Anet would introduce a mechanic that aids in the off hour disparity – yakless upgrades – I don’t understand. If you thought "night"capping is bad now, wait until you wake up to your Home BL fully T3 by the enemy – not because they tried but just because it happened automatically.

Because people should never be punished for the time they play.

Yeah, it seems like the population would not want any form of change that does differentiate the current system.

The current system is a lot more discriminating than the systems that was suggested above…….What bothers me the most is the “idea of what it takes to be Nr. 1” I am fine with losing, it is the simple idea for what it takes to be Nr. 1 that bothers me……….
What I, and hopefully alot of other players want:

Best at fighting, presenting strategies, orders that are good for every class, even if not melee or ranged.

What currently it is: Who got the most people from other servers/regions/time zones.

Even a system that is more about points per kill would be a bigger improvement than the current system we have.

How does one balance in any way a realm vs realm vs realm mode that spans multiple maps with 24/7 vulnerable objectives and week long scoring played by a global community with a range of personal schedules and playstyles? You can’t.

Sich.7103:

don’t forget EU server with multiple time zone… Witch timezone will you choose ?
Nop, wvw is 24/24… Not only during day…

And where were you today eh mister? I had to get hills done all by myself (not really, lol).

Also, NA should get its stuff together. It has to be boring as heck to do the same matches each week. EU was smart and spread out, you guys are only doing it to yourselves. It’s ok not to be No. 1, it’s a game, should be fun, and all about the challenges of a changing weekly enemy.

Jayne.9251:

Sich.7103:

don’t forget EU server with multiple time zone… Witch timezone will you choose ?
Nop, wvw is 24/24… Not only during day…

And where were you today eh mister? I had to get hills done all by myself (not really, lol).

Also, NA should get its stuff together. It has to be boring as heck to do the same matches each week. EU was smart and spread out, you guys are only doing it to yourselves. It’s ok not to be No. 1, it’s a game, should be fun, and all about the challenges of a changing weekly enemy.

I tried telling some people that a ways back, but I gave up. Instead servers pooled money to buy guilds, and to transfer en masse to another server -_-

Yeah I left for EU a year ago and quite enjoy it.

Don’t want it bandwagoned, cos then you have the same stale deadlocks, but it really is worth considering as a change for NA.

Jayne.9251:

Sich.7103:

don’t forget EU server with multiple time zone… Witch timezone will you choose ?
Nop, wvw is 24/24… Not only during day…

And where were you today eh mister? I had to get hills done all by myself (not really, lol).

Also, NA should get its stuff together. It has to be boring as heck to do the same matches each week. EU was smart and spread out, you guys are only doing it to yourselves. It’s ok not to be No. 1, it’s a game, should be fun, and all about the challenges of a changing weekly enemy.

Back in the old days of Planet Side 1 people would actively try to balance the factions for better fights, because fights were more important than winning. How times have changed! But I don’t think it’s just bandwagoning that’s the issue. I think the WvW populations in NA are just too small compared to the server populations. And the system doesn’t encourage balancing populations because of the 1800 gem cost. But as a counter point someone on reddit posted the number of people per server with a certain amount of achievement points and the high ranked NA servers had ten times the lower ranking servers of players over that threshold. Which leads me to believe that Anet has been lying to us about the actual populations on certain servers.

I can’t find the post but if I got to the achievement leaderboards, which only lists 40 pages of players. For Blackgate the lowest score listed is 14257. While Eredon Terrance’s 40 pages ends with an achievement score of 5257. That doesn’t prove ET has less players, but it should raise questions.

ooii ooii .. there are people living on the other side of the world….. stop being selfish

Honestly, I think that they should just not have EU and NA as different. (Though obviously there is some infrastructure that would need to change, which costs money. It could be done with content delivery and distribution, but it would cost money.)

But since WvW is a 24/7 thing, having EU and NA combined would create better coverage for more servers.

The main reason that NA is top heavy is just this, the lack of 24 hour coverage in lower tiers.

And most of the top heavy in NA servers is actually just the NA guilds on the NA servers going higher up in tiers looking for bigger and better fights. Also the GvG scene tends to be more and better in the top 3 tiers. (which also could be fixed if Anet would introduce an actual GvG arena.)

But if they combined EU and NA, it would require more servers in a single tierwith like 6 servers per tier or something. This would also give more variance in the servers that you see as in any single tier there would be 5 other servers for you to go up against instead of 2.

Very few EU servers have night coverage. Maybe three or four. But look at the mos amd ratings points, you’ll see they’re all very close, which means different enemies mostly every week.

Sich.7103:

don’t forget EU server with multiple time zone… Witch timezone will you choose ?
Nop, wvw is 24/24… Not only during day…

BS, wvw EU is not day and night time difference.

Make a real map night time.

Make it DARK, so that you need torches to move about easily (not weapon torches, but a buff or something).

It will allow people to still play, give an entire new level to WvW in a tactical sense and potential mitigate the overnight megaflip.

Hell, it would get me playing at night just to experience it.

as I see it, the WvW at night courses way to many problems, especially because the different time zones within EU is not that high, this creates an open field where people could abuse the system to win based on buying people from other regions instead of winning based on fighting capabilities.

Making night time different, maybe a lot darker, would cause even more abuse, people would turn on any form of night vision to remove it and gain more control over those who don’t have it on………It would be cool for 1 day, since only very few low people would actually abuse it by that time, but I cant see it be any less annoying than the pilot april fools thing, unless if they add dark monsters in, like in the game Don´t Starve, that would instantly kill you if you move out of the light……But that is probably going overboard, and I honestly can see a few ways to abuse the system as well, especially with so many people with torches=a lot of light vs very few people without =very small light.

erm u know when its night time its day time for me…so im not allowed to play because u sleep?

selan.8354:

erm u know when its night time its day time for me…so im not allowed to play because u sleep?

Please read the thread……I don’t expect you to read every post in here but at least the first posted by me?

selan.8354:

erm u know when its night time its day time for me…so im not allowed to play because u sleep?

You do know there are other servers that have prime time when EU has nightime right? Perhaps they are a good option, you know to fight and stuff like that.

Coyote.7031:

Jayne.9251:

Sich.7103:

don’t forget EU server with multiple time zone… Witch timezone will you choose ?
Nop, wvw is 24/24… Not only during day…

And where were you today eh mister? I had to get hills done all by myself (not really, lol).

Also, NA should get its stuff together. It has to be boring as heck to do the same matches each week. EU was smart and spread out, you guys are only doing it to yourselves. It’s ok not to be No. 1, it’s a game, should be fun, and all about the challenges of a changing weekly enemy.

Back in the old days of Planet Side 1 people would actively try to balance the factions for better fights, because fights were more important than winning. How times have changed! But I don’t think it’s just bandwagoning that’s the issue. I think the WvW populations in NA are just too small compared to the server populations. And the system doesn’t encourage balancing populations because of the 1800 gem cost. But as a counter point someone on reddit posted the number of people per server with a certain amount of achievement points and the high ranked NA servers had ten times the lower ranking servers of players over that threshold. Which leads me to believe that Anet has been lying to us about the actual populations on certain servers.

I can’t find the post but if I got to the achievement leaderboards, which only lists 40 pages of players. For Blackgate the lowest score listed is 14257. While Eredon Terrance’s 40 pages ends with an achievement score of 5257. That doesn’t prove ET has less players, but it should raise questions.

I believe what you describe (AP on higher/lower servers) is the result of many players eventually moving to higher tiers. Most new players have no idea about server differences and some don’t even know the server they belong to. But as people spend more and more time in wvw, many of them transfer up. In short, it’s wvw active players ending up on high tier servers. Casual players on other hand transfer less, why spend rl money on gems to transfer if they play the game once in a while. People who stop playing still belong to a server.

This was happening in pve until megaservers were introduced as well. More people in pve meant higher chances of getting big events done.

Anet most likely counts in any player that belongs to a server, active, casual or those who stopped playing.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

I believe what you describe (AP on higher/lower servers) is the result of many players eventually moving to higher tiers. Most new players have no idea about server differences and some don’t even know the server they belong to. But as people spend more and more time in wvw, many of them transfer up. In short, it’s wvw active players ending up on high tier servers. Casual players on other hand transfer less, why spend rl money on gems to transfer if they play the game once in a while. People who stop playing still belong to a server.

This was happening in pve until megaservers were introduced as well. More people in pve meant higher chances of getting big events done.

Anet most likely counts in any player that belongs to a server, active, casual or those who stopped playing.

That’s what I was thinking. And it’s interesting to see a correlation between AP leader boards and WvW status. I didn’t go through every server, but just picked out a few top servers, a few bottom, and two middle to see where their scores ended. It was neat to see the numbers increase with rank. I’m sure there’s some that defy the trend. I imagine there just isn’t one reason for the difference. It could be population issues, band wagoning, casuals versus hardcore, new versus veteran players, etc.

aspirine.6852:

selan.8354:

erm u know when its night time its day time for me…so im not allowed to play because u sleep?

You do know there are other servers that have prime time when EU has nightime right? Perhaps they are a good option, you know to fight and stuff like that.

You know there are sooo many servers that cater for OCX/SEA players? ocx prime is like midday EU or about 6am NA

caljay.8720:

aspirine.6852:

selan.8354:

erm u know when its night time its day time for me…so im not allowed to play because u sleep?

You do know there are other servers that have prime time when EU has nightime right? Perhaps they are a good option, you know to fight and stuff like that.

You know there are sooo many servers that cater for OCX/SEA players? ocx prime is like midday EU or about 6am NA

Thats a whole different discussion I think, those players are a bit screwed and I do not consider them nightcrew because they almost have no choice.
I am talking about the players willingly going to a different timezone to be on the nightcapping easy mode train.

How about leave it alone. Maybe you should start playing a different time of day.

nightblood.7910:

Honestly, I think that they should just not have EU and NA as different. (Though obviously there is some infrastructure that would need to change, which costs money. It could be done with content delivery and distribution, but it would cost money.)

But since WvW is a 24/7 thing, having EU and NA combined would create better coverage for more servers.

The main reason that NA is top heavy is just this, the lack of 24 hour coverage in lower tiers.

And most of the top heavy in NA servers is actually just the NA guilds on the NA servers going higher up in tiers looking for bigger and better fights. Also the GvG scene tends to be more and better in the top 3 tiers. (which also could be fixed if Anet would introduce an actual GvG arena.)

But if they combined EU and NA, it would require more servers in a single tierwith like 6 servers per tier or something. This would also give more variance in the servers that you see as in any single tier there would be 5 other servers for you to go up against instead of 2.

I personally think they could merge EU/NA servers with a minimum of muss and fuss if they just would plot it out, and make it happen. That fist month would be insane, and it would also break up the stagnant matches pretty quickly, especially if they reset Glicko before they merged.(make them daily resets the first month to see how it played out)

Kaiser.9873:

I personally think they could merge EU/NA servers with a minimum of muss and fuss if they just would plot it out, and make it happen. That fist month would be insane, and it would also break up the stagnant matches pretty quickly, especially if they reset Glicko before they merged.(make them daily resets the first month to see how it played out)

You want to kill WvW or something? Why do everyone wish the death of WvW?!?

When ESO was released, they only had US servers and let me tell you – it killed the game in EU. Literally killed it and one of the major reasons ESO failed. PvE was laggy and delayed while AvA was laggy and completely desynched with 20+ players nearby.

The very thought of someone wishing this fate upon GW2 is… mindboggling. You’re either going to ruin the game in the US (having everyone on EU servers) or in the EU (having everyone on US servers). There is a reason why games split up regions. You cant play on a server that’s physically in two places at once.

I hate being OCX, always get short stick.

sephiroth.4217:

I hate being OCX, always get short stick.

QFT

zengara.8301:

We probably all know that there are some servers who are not that good at fighting, though succeeding with the night guilds.
This trend have led alot of servers to buy guilds from NA to transfer into EU and fight at night so they remain high.

I know that simply blocking WvW in night time would be good for a majority of people, but it is too……wrong, the idea of blocking people from gametime because their time zone is incorrect is simply wrong, even though only a minority of people do happen to be in EU and play on another time. Though my servers commander have been on for 17 hours so we can at least have a somewhat decent chance against 2 other servers last week.

My question is……

1

Why dont they just block of borderlands? They are all rather familiar and most would rather join EB

I honestly do see a small problem with closing some borderlands, since the gameplay will be limited to some, which always bothered me in other games……..

2

Or set a point system, so that the points gathered from prime time (“x time” to “x time”) gives more points.

~This would intrigue people with amazing players and commanders to play more, since there is a real chance, not the usual, get on and win almost every fight on the first day at equal numbers be like 4k ahead in points and suddenly lose it all in night time.~
I Do Not see a problem in having a different point system, the player base would not have any form of limitation, this have been one of the major problems in wvw, and seems like it could be fixed with 1 thing……The only persons I see not liking this idea is either the servers who do have night guilds from other regions to fight for them, or people who have spend money on those night guilds…….

Btw, WvW was my Nr. 1 concern at release, they said that you could join 24/7 that got me and alot of critic players thinking that it might cause such an effect, that instead of WvW being fighting for a realm, it is simply all about who got the money to buy the players from NA.

If differentiating the point system at night vs at morning is a problem for some players, please tell me.

Something needs to be done – blocking bls that have few might be a way to go but I’d much rather do something that will be inclusive rather than exclusive.

The lower tiers could (however many it takes) go against the top servers, the mid servers the same, and the normal rotation would stay in the mix for the health of all servers.

I believe balance is possible – but not to the exclusion of choices of where to go when EB isn’t your thing at the time.

So let’s say that majority – the 99% population (EU) can play from around 12:00 pm till 02:00 am – work, school etc… Allow the servers to score points in that period of time. For the rest of time you can play but no points scored. How about that?

Atoss.1056:

So let’s say that majority – the 99% population (EU) can play from around 12:00 pm till 02:00 am – work, school etc… Allow the servers to score points in that period of time. For the rest of time you can play but no points scored. How about that?

As much as I dont like nightcapping, no points in that time will probably kill WvW

Why would it kill it?
Option could be that PPK is working 24/7, even if PPT would be disabled for those 10 hr “Peace/Repair/Whatever else Time”. Fights would be giving points still.

aspirine.6852:

selan.8354:

erm u know when its night time its day time for me…so im not allowed to play because u sleep?

You do know there are other servers that have prime time when EU has nightime right? Perhaps they are a good option, you know to fight and stuff like that.

erm i am on an na server playing oceanics as i live u know in australia u know.. i do erm u know fight and stuff….
what is it exaclty u want from me? all im saying is that people keep whining about night capping and wanting to shut down borderlands because they wanna go to bed.. well wvw is 24/7 since release and should stay like this or it would be unfair for people that idk mayyybe work till late like i did when i lived in na…..

In my eyes blocking the Border Lands when certain conditions are met (be it time or WvW-population) would be too drastic and would do little to solve the problem.

The approach I prefer is scaling the points from structures based on the current WvW-population in the matchup. To give an example (mainly for the sake of argument) I think of a linear function that is at 10% – 25% when no one is around and caps out at 100% at 2/3 of the total maximum population (e.g. when 2 servers fill all the maps and one server decides to stay at home).

One argument against scaling points is that it could be manipulated by withdrawing own players to reduce the opponents tick, but I don’t think this will work unless you use a function that has some hard jumps in it (e.g. jumping from 50% to 100% within a difference of a few players), but even than it would be hard to manipulate since players probably won’t know the exact point or the current WvW-population.

The other argument is that people who play during nighttime would count less than those who play during primetime. I firmly disagree with this argument, since the entire point of scaling the tick is to reduce how much more they count right now. In my last matchup the daytime pretty much provided a baseline and showed that all 3 servers were equally matched and nighttime capping ended up deciding the entire match. A strong nightshift will still be a significant advantage since it is able to raze T3s with just a few people where a few hours ago many more had failed.

The point of scaling the tick is to prevent a few people from distorting the (perceived) strength of a server and thus to better match servers of equal strength.

Yeah seems like that the “fixing WvW” relies very much on point system, maybe because it is easy to change or it is because it does not make the gameplay any less fun….

The idea that changing the point system should discriminating some people is simply wrong, it settles things so everyone is on a equal footing………

And if we choose a point system that is about how many players that currently are on map, and people think that it should somehow be abused by people is wrong as well, first of all, it is rather hard if not impossible to hold everyone on that server back…Even if we say it is somehow possible, that server will fall massively in points, the other servers will get small amounts of point during that time, but they will still win every fight and possibly every points that are available, specially because no one is around to take them…………

The only solution is to drop all concept of competitive WvW (what little remains of that) and also megaserver the WvW fights. That would cause other problems of course, but it would take care of this one and a few others WvW currently faces (like server alliances and spying).