Guild Wars 2

Players who run supply for repairs from camp to keep should get badges of honor.

its ridiculous that everyone is out zerging and getting tons of badges when this one person is not getting any because they are repairing walls.

They are well on their way to the Ultimate Technician achievement. Only 950,000 more supply to go.

FOR GREAT ACHIEVEMENT!

Sometimes I just like the repetition of running supply. Take supply. Hike/waypoint. Repair. Waypoint/hike. Take supply. Etc.

I don’t need a badge for that because I get badges on the inside. Warm and fuzzy internal badges. Or cookies. Cookies are nice.

This is a general issue with WvW: mindless zerg running is rewarding but small tactical play isn’t, such as escorting dolyaks, scouting, trebbing from far away, etc. Needs a reworking of rewards imo.

Run supply? Psh. They should’ve been in zerg roll-stomping! If I’m not killing, I’m not winning!

/sarcasm
Even if they boost rewards, though, I don’t feel like many more people would take part in it. I do feel like the people who already do it, though, should get more reward – it does make a significant difference.

Badges mean nothing as you have nothing to spend them on, should let us donate badges. Happily donate to people I see setting up siege or running supplies with me.

Niim.9260:

Badges mean nothing as you have nothing to spend them on, should let us donate badges. Happily donate to people I see setting up siege or running supplies with me.

They are more useful now that you can get stats other than Invaders/Soldiers with them.

Badges and bags and all. Ha! What is best in life?!

To crush your enemies, see them driven from your Tier, and to hear the lamentation on the forum.

Failing that, cookies, pie, and cake. Or using that stuff for more seige. But I’d rather have the nomnom goodness.

Nabrok.9023:

Niim.9260:

Badges mean nothing as you have nothing to spend them on, should let us donate badges. Happily donate to people I see setting up siege or running supplies with me.

They are more useful now that you can get stats other than Invaders/Soldiers with them.

Not really, you still pay half the crafting cost of an item, so if you have some mats saved up, your better off going with crafting, If they made those items cost ‘just’ badges then yes I would agree.

I have an idea Place an requirement Condition Such as this If supply from Supply camp Check? Used 100 supply repairing wall/gate check? Grant 1 Badge. THe used supply Could even be included in the WvW daily So you can keep track how many you need.

Niim.9260:

Nabrok.9023:

Niim.9260:

Badges mean nothing as you have nothing to spend them on, should let us donate badges. Happily donate to people I see setting up siege or running supplies with me.

They are more useful now that you can get stats other than Invaders/Soldiers with them.

Not really, you still pay half the crafting cost of an item, so if you have some mats saved up, your better off going with crafting, If they made those items cost ‘just’ badges then yes I would agree.

But if you have “useless” badges saved up then, as you say, it’s half the cost.

They also have rabid stats which are not craftable and not 100% available with karma.

As a WvW Commander on T1 Blackgate, I thank you guys for your hard work in running supply and yaks to our towers and Keeps. We need more people like you.

/salute

-Gismor [LW]

Sometimes I do it myself, and with the tag on… It’s not cool to say “Repair wall/door at tower/keep” and just take the zerg elsewhere…

i was doing this the other day to the southern bay gate and just left the gate at 50%, i built it up from around 5% on my own. I ran inside the bay and there must have been 30 other guys standing around a commander who was afk (they were there the whole time), i just gave up. If they all grabbed supply we would have had that gate done in 2 seconds. 2 minutes later it got attacked and they broke through and flipped the bay. It’s like nobody wants to defend any more, they would rather it got flipped and then flip it back again than defend it or just glue themselves to a commander (even if they are afk) and not think for themselves.

Would be cool if they rewarded us for running supply, and putting siege inside keeps/towers so that the zerg can defend them when they’re attacked.

SweetPotato.7456:

Players who run supply for repairs from camp to keep should get badges of honor

I agree 100%. It cannot be that hard to reward someone that takes supply from a camp.

And escorting Yaks. And rezzing. IT is very easy to implement WXP & badges for these.

Healing & buffing should be rewarded too as is standing guard, but those are harder to implement.

It is silly that ANet does not consider these activities important enough to reward them.

The thing I hate the most, though, are players who rarely do any of this brag about their high ranks or number of badges. That is just a slap in the face of all others.

Jeknar.6184:

Sometimes I do it myself, and with the tag on… It’s not cool to say “Repair wall/door at tower/keep” and just take the zerg elsewhere…

^^^THIS.

Sadly, what a zerg can accomplish in usually 5-15 minutes (repairs and siege building) is often left to a handful, or one, to do over the course of sometimes an hour or more. Trust me, some of those people get fed up with being taken for granted both by their server mates and ANet.

WyldKat.4712:

FOR GREAT ACHIEVEMENT!

Sometimes I just like the repetition of running supply. Take supply. Hike/waypoint. Repair. Waypoint/hike. Take supply. Etc.

I don’t need a badge for that because I get badges on the inside. Warm and fuzzy internal badges. Or cookies. Cookies are nice.

All of this, indeed <3

Sometimes, you just get tired of killing people, you know? It’s nice to relax into the repetition of doing the above, plus or minus escorting a Yak or two.

^^^ Good to hear Devon. If no badges or coin can be given, how about blueprints? I end up with less money in my account most nights than I started with because I spend most of my time building defensive siege (and securing camps to get the required supply).

DevonCarver.5370:

We are currently working on making rewards for play outside of killing and capping more rewarding, but it is complicated. Giving people WXP for doing things is a very high likelihood.

Let me say it second, then. Thank you – a lot of us (not just in this specific thread) have been hoping for such a thing

Please have the foresight NOT to reward for taking supplies from Keep or Tower… just saying

Any hopes that we’ll get WvW adjustments (maps and rulesets more than nerfs and buffs) to make zerging less of a big deal?

Something as simple as making sure you have all of your structures before taking control of an enemy structure would force zergs to split up more often and coordinating attacks key.

I’d like to see WXP awared for reviving allies, be it players or NPCs, and building siege. Also if somehow we can get implemented where if we’re scouts or watchguards we’re rewarded.

When I play WvW with my smaller guild, we often have one objective and defend it, and I let the larger guilds know of the situation. The come in and roflstomp the enemy. Who is the hero in all this? Well, not to boast, but if someone wasn’t there to know of the situation, that objective could have been lost. It’d be nice to get some WXP somehow for doing such things, although I do understand how it can be incredibly difficult to implement something like that without people instantly finding ways to exploit it.

Didn’t they nix the dolyak escorty reward cuz of bots or something? Or was that a nasty rumor I heard once?

Silly peeps taking advantage. But then again, I’d take all kinds of advantage of those marshmallowy goodness.

Walking yaks in to the affected tower/keep is an almost guaranteed small fight magnet if you’re just roaming around. I prefer that to running supply all slow and stuff. Get your WXP and bring mucho mas supplies in at a time. Win/win. Unless you lose.

Raven Paradox.1860:

I’d like to see WXP awared for reviving allies, be it players or NPCs, and building siege. Also if somehow we can get implemented where if we’re scouts or watchguards we’re rewarded.

When I play WvW with my smaller guild, we often have one objective and defend it, and I let the larger guilds know of the situation. The come in and roflstomp the enemy. Who is the hero in all this? Well, not to boast, but if someone wasn’t there to know of the situation, that objective could have been lost. It’d be nice to get some WXP somehow for doing such things, although I do understand how it can be incredibly difficult to implement something like that without people instantly finding ways to exploit it.

You’d think anything that gives xp would also give wxp.

But more important than WXP is badges. I really wish they’d just do away with them, move everything over to karma, and that way you can just up the karma reward and give karma along with wxp.

Badges are really important for people new to WvW because they’re often pestered to get PTV gear but it’s difficult for new or more casual players to just grab a full suit of gear and change specs on a whim.

DevonCarver.5370:

Jacklo.4230:

Please have the foresight NOT to reward for taking supplies from Keep or Tower… just saying

I’ll do no such thing!

i dont think its too much to ask that IF you were to say… grant 10 wxp for grabbing 10 supply… you only grant it when its grabbed from a supply camp. it would greatly encourage noobs to not grab supply from a tower when theres a positive incentive to take from elsewhere.

Glad to hear Devon…it was discouraging in regards to WxP for us to defend a tower last night for two hours with the walls trebbed down. We were talking about how epic it was for us to hold the tower but the real hero was the guy on the other team that trebbed for two hours straight. When we had to log and give the tower up we wanted to personally hand it over to the guy who did all that trebbing so he would get some kind of incentive to do that again. Overall, we had a blast but barely gained one level in 2 hours and no WxP except for farming enemy teams trying to push into the tower. We can farm enemies anywhere but we should have earned massive amounts of WxP for what we accomplished by holding that tower. Also, I bet the guy that was trebbing didn’t get any WxP at all much less credit for capping the tower.

I hear you that these things are complicated but they are extrememly important to your hardcore WvW fans that chose to play the game the way they enjoy…which is not always to zerg and cap structures, but to defend against the odds, escort supply yaks, run supply for repairs, and treb or cat walls down on structures.

Sounds like you are listening and on the right track so I wanted to voice my appreciation.

DevonCarver.5370:

We are currently working on making rewards for play outside of killing and capping more rewarding, but it is complicated. Giving people WXP for doing things is a very high likelihood.

There are many players who spend their time, especially on reset night, holding/upgrading/sieging camps, towers, keeps and garrison. A reward of xp and silver on the successful tick if you are still inside and you have triggered the upgrade would be very nice indeed. I don’t know if that is even possible, but dang it would go a long way to recoup some of the silver that goes into Quartermastering.

It would also be great if scouts could be rewarded somehow. I realize this might open the door for easy botting, so here is one way to do this:

1) To get reward for scouting you have to initiate a “scout mission”. This can either be done through a free/cheap consumable, or in designated areas on the map.
2) A scout mission will create a fairly large circle, similar to the capping circles. You have to stay in the circle for the duration of the mission, which lasts Z minutes.
3) To prevent AFKing/botting, “activities” will span at random location at random intervals in the circle. These activities are simple interact objects that you have to go to and interact with within X seconds of them spawning. If you fail to do so the circle will disappear and the mission fails with a much smaller reward, depending on how long you did complete the scout tasks. During the activity, you can still free-move your camera and “scout” the area.
4) There is a maximum of Y players who can get credit for the scout mission.

As a scout / yak runner / upgrader, I find the lack of badges very annoying.
The badges I get cover about 1/5th of the siege I drop, the rest I have to pay for with silver.

Meanwhile zergers pick up several hundred badges a week and do nothing with them.

DevonCarver.5370:

We are currently working on making rewards for play outside of killing and capping more rewarding, but it is complicated. Giving people WXP for doing things is a very high likelihood.

Keep/Tower defense should be the most rewarding thing, since it is the most boring.

Every time the time ticks to zero, and you still own a keep/tower, there should be a reward attached to it for starters. Even if the enemy is beating on it still.

Nice to have a Dev response (no pun intended).

Problem with rewards is that it promotes zergs and nothing else. It’s actually more profitable to let an enemy flip a tower so you can karma/wXP it back 5 mins later. It’s more profitable to run a zerg of 50 over a supply camp for the wXP rather than just sending 2 or 3 people (or 10 with no supply) to take it. Same issue with roles like defense, supply running, or dolyak guarding. The reward system works against smart/elaborate strategy in WvW.

Glad it’s being looked into.

Mif.3471:

As a scout / yak runner / upgrader, I find the lack of badges very annoying.
.

As a professional ganker slash yak slapper, I find picking your badge lootbags to be rather pointless since badges dont give much.

SweetPotato.7456:

Players who run supply for repairs from camp to keep should get badges of honor.

its ridiculous that everyone is out zerging and getting tons of badges when this one person is not getting any because they are repairing walls.

What you should get is a thanks for helping pull the wagon. I’m not sure how they run things on your server but people naturally get on the job when things need fixing where I’m at, no questions asked, no brownie pins expected.

Zephyrus.9680:

Nice to have a Dev response (no pun intended).

Problem with rewards is that it promotes zergs and nothing else. It’s actually more profitable to let an enemy flip a tower so you can karma/wXP it back 5 mins later. It’s more profitable to run a zerg of 50 over a supply camp for the wXP rather than just sending 2 or 3 people (or 10 with no supply) to take it. Same issue with roles like defense, supply running, or dolyak guarding. The reward system works against smart/elaborate strategy in WvW.

Glad it’s being looked into.

I couldn’t help reading that and thinking that they call Devon “Dev Dev” at the office.
Lot of red posts on the WvW forum lately. Must mean that the April 30 patch is done.
We gonna see more Anet icons in WvW soon?

As to the topic of rewarding WXP for yak running. maybe the WXP should be inversely proportional to how much supply the tower/keep already has.

I have a few points I want to bring into this discussion.

At the moment running with the zerg is what gives you the most badges usually if you have some fights with other groups/zergs.
Also killing a zerg where you can tag 40 persons (which some classes can better than others – more reward for aoe classes ) can grant you 1000 wxp which is crazy. The larger the zerg the more wxp.
Additionally to this a zerg usually gets more wxp for everyone by doing karma-trains than solo players or small groups could ever get.

What I would enjoy is that small group play gets also rewarded. This could be done by reducing the wxp you get the more people hit the target.
So if a large zerg vs zerg occures and let’s say 30 persons hit one enemy instead of giving the 60 wxp for that one person to all 30 people who tagged that player they get alot less – for example 5 wxp. If you can tag 20 people in that zerg that is still probably about 50 wxp. But it’s not 500 wxp which makes it mandatory to stay with zergs if you want to level fast.
The formula should just have some diminishing returns but I wouldn’t just divide the 60 by 30 players and grant 2 wxp.

This would at least prevent especially encouraging zerging and people chasing down everything they see for huge rewards and it would stop building siege with the sole purpose to get the as much wxp as possible. You already see catapults which should shoot at the door/wall turn around to shoot into the enemy zerg for loot and wxp.

While balancing rewards could you also have a look at how the loot rewards work now and try to balance it. Support classes get alot less badges than those who can spam aoe attacks all the time.
I know it is very difficult to find a solution to this but it would be great to get reward for healing persons or buffing them / removing conditions.
That way someone can also play the supporter role instead of just spamming aoe (which some classes have a lot less).

In the end the reward system as we have it now can never be absolutely fair. But there is a solution that might work to fix the reward system and make the WvW players play how they want to play without being disadvantaged and without having to worry about getting their rewards.

That loot/xp system would have an equal base reward for everyone as long as they just do something “useful” which means not being afk.
Some kind of loot over time like per 5 min you get 100 wxp, 5 bags with random loot in there (like the ones that drop all the time) and 2 badges of honor.
On top of that there are some additional rewards for taking towers and such active stuff. Doing these should not increase the overall reward by more than 50% compared to those who just play as they want – maybe just scouting or supporting with heals, repairing walls or whatever.
That additional reward system could be as it is now but you would simply have to heavily reduce the reward amount for it and put a limit which can not be exceeded which would also be good against exploiting mechanics like trebbing a huge zerg with the poisoning cow and getting 50 loot bags and over 1k wxp…

This would actually change one thing in WvW. People would stop doing what gives most reward and do what is fun to them and what they consider important for the server. They wouldn’t have that bad taste in their mouth knowing that the others who follow the zerg not only have more fun but also get tons more rewards.

At the same time this solves the issue with picking up bags which people mentioned on these forums. You could just put every loot into bags which can be stacked to 1.000 for example. That way it takes one slot of the inventory and it is automatically increased every 5 min or whatever of good playing.

So as long as you don’t AFK or BOT you get pretty much the equal amount of drops (bags/badges/wxp/karma) even if you just scout. Those who actively cap towers and camps all the time will get a small bonus reward which is not huge.
As it is now the ones who scout or do other useful stuff pretty much don’t get rewarded at all, especially not with bags of random items which they can sell on the trade post for gold.

The only difficulty with this solution is finding out if someone is afk or running a bot. You would have to find a way to recognize that. What we absolutely don’t want is people blocking slots in WvW by botting there for the rewards.

people who run supply over nabbing tower/keep supply in dire times, people who run dolyaks, people who scout, are the backbone. They are heros and deserve an inventory full of badge stacks.

SweetPotato.7456:

Players who run supply for repairs from camp to keep should get badges of honor.

its ridiculous that everyone is out zerging and getting tons of badges when this one person is not getting any because they are repairing walls.

Walls don’t wear badges, so why would you get one for killing it? A defense event completion reward makes sense though. If it helps Im sure we could all start a badge fund for wall repairers. I know we all have thousands laying around because there is nothing buy.

Swamurabi.7890:

As to the topic of rewarding WXP for yak running. maybe the WXP should be inversely proportional to how much supply the tower/keep already has.

That doesn’t make any sense. There are lots of times that capping off the supply in a tower or keep is every bit as important as at any other time. Maybe an attack is expected and all the supply possible is needed for defense/repair. Maybe the tower is sitting at 730 supply and needs that last yak to justify ordering the upgrade instead of saving the supply for defense. I see no purpose at all in making the WXP proportional.

Cactus.2710:

Swamurabi.7890:

As to the topic of rewarding WXP for yak running. maybe the WXP should be inversely proportional to how much supply the tower/keep already has.

That doesn’t make any sense. There are lots of times that capping off the supply in a tower or keep is every bit as important as at any other time. Maybe an attack is expected and all the supply possible is needed for defense/repair. Maybe the tower is sitting at 730 supply and needs that last yak to justify ordering the upgrade instead of saving the supply for defense. I see no purpose at all in making the WXP proportional.

Bot prevention. No need to get same WXP for the first yak as the yak that tops off or the one that arrives when the supply is full.

You can also have it so that any yak that arrives when upgrade is in progress gives full WXP or when the supply isn’t full but yaks that arrive with a tower at max supply give 0 WXP.

Yes! Thanks to the devs for addressing this. Game mechanics that reward conscientious players, encourage supply management, and above all keep yaks alive and safe are all much appreciated. How bout a daily or weekly reward that gives you a chest and a laurel if you repair X amount of towers or protect X amount of yaks? That way it’s not about badges, because I agree it’s odd that a wall would drop a loot bag.

Anyone remember Warhammer?

The defense award should scale with the size of the attack as well as the size of the defense. It made people WANT to defend because their was a significant reward.

If your group of 5 defend a tower against 50 players, even if don’t kill any of them, you should get a butt-kicking reward. Instead you get “standard credit”.

If your group of 50 take a tower with no defenders, you all should get very little. Instead, you get “standard credit”

If your group of 50 wipe 5 people attacking a tower, you should get very little. Instead, everyone (who tags) gets full credit.

The risk vs reward is the reverse of what it should be.

WyldKat.4712:

Badges and bags and all. Ha! What is best in life?!

To crush your enemies, see them driven from your Tier, and to hear the lamentation on the forum.

Failing that, cookies, pie, and cake. Or using that stuff for more siege. But I’d rather have the nomnom goodness.

Are those all your nomnom? You mean you eat other people’s nomnom? STOP IT!

Niim.9260:

Nabrok.9023:

Niim.9260:

Badges mean nothing as you have nothing to spend them on, should let us donate badges. Happily donate to people I see setting up siege or running supplies with me.

They are more useful now that you can get stats other than Invaders/Soldiers with them.

Not really, you still pay half the crafting cost of an item, so if you have some mats saved up, your better off going with crafting, If they made those items cost ‘just’ badges then yes I would agree.

As a guy whose leveled up and paid for Exotic gear on 7 characters, the gear you can now get with badges is much cheaper then what you can buy it for. It saves you far more then “half” what you can buy the armor piece for.

DevonCarver.5370:

Jacklo.4230:

Please have the foresight NOT to reward for taking supplies from Keep or Tower… just saying

I’ll do no such thing!

I think it needs to be more elaborate. I mean, the keep in EB is fair game after about the first 24 hours after reset. Basically, I think it should be down to the upgrades and supply available at a keep/castle/supply camp. IE, If Klovan is running 700/700 I see no problem with pulling 10-15 supply out of there, as long as you keep tabs on it. SM is pretty much never ever take supply.

Great to hear Anet is going to reward this though. I regularly escort Dolyaks. Last week I spent around 50 hours escorting them and I think it helped my server alot. But I get almost nothing for it, at least in comparison to other tasks… but I do it because everyone knows this so they don’t want to do it so I do. I understand why rewards were dropped from it orginally, but there has to be some medium ground.

DevonCarver.5370:

We are currently working on making rewards for play outside of killing and capping more rewarding, but it is complicated. Giving people WXP for doing things is a very high likelihood.

Im guessing one issue is people will repair walls which tactically r better left down… ones which have treb attention for example. Its annoying enough when people rebuild walls which are down and being trebbed but if u offer rewards for doing this then everyone will do it! lol

How can u differentiate between a wall/gate which needs repair and which doesnt tactically?

Sadly the major flaw in the Wexp system is that instead of taking the approach that 30 people tagged each player in the opposing zerg and should therefore get 1/30th Wexp each, Anet went for the simple solution of ‘one kill, get eg 50Wexp’, meaning the highest ranks come fastest for those who can tag the most.

It should not be possible to get 1k Wexp in one battle lasting seconds or a minute- how will escorting dolyaks ever compete with that?

Now the cat is out the bag it’s too late to fix it, and even if they do the rank 100+ (read 1000+ by time by fixes come in) will keep their ‘rank’ and wvw advantages over those that didn’t join the zerg/karma train Wexp express.