Guild Wars 2

Victory.2879:

Sadly the major flaw in the Wexp system is that instead of taking the approach that 30 people tagged each player in the opposing zerg and should therefore get 1/30th Wexp each, Anet went for the simple solution of ‘one kill, get eg 50Wexp’, meaning the highest ranks come fastest for those who can tag the most.

It should not be possible to get 1k Wexp in one battle lasting seconds or a minute- how will escorting dolyaks ever compete with that?

Now the cat is out the bag it’s too late to fix it, and even if they do the rank 100+ (read 1000+ by time by fixes come in) will keep their ‘rank’ and wvw advantages over those that didn’t join the zerg/karma train Wexp express.

Isn’t that always the case?

But progress is progress. Don’t hold it back for the sake of what was.
There won’t be any turning back of the clock. I think it’s a case of being thankful for what you get.
That said, I see encouragement in the fact that Anet now realise that 30% of the people who log on, queue for WvW.
I just hope there’s a change in the resources they apply to this part of the game.

Victory.2879:

Sadly the major flaw in the Wexp system is that instead of taking the approach that 30 people tagged each player in the opposing zerg and should therefore get 1/30th Wexp each, Anet went for the simple solution of ‘one kill, get eg 50Wexp’, meaning the highest ranks come fastest for those who can tag the most.

It should not be possible to get 1k Wexp in one battle lasting seconds or a minute- how will escorting dolyaks ever compete with that?

Now the cat is out the bag it’s too late to fix it, and even if they do the rank 100+ (read 1000+ by time by fixes come in) will keep their ‘rank’ and wvw advantages over those that didn’t join the zerg/karma train Wexp express.

I guess your right

DevonCarver.5370:

We are currently working on making rewards for play outside of killing and capping more rewarding, but it is complicated. Giving people WXP for doing things is a very high likelihood.

Thanks, thats my biggest gripe with WXP. I repair a wall, I build a mortar, I run supply etc . I get nothing. I go with the zerg and wxp out the wazoo.

Just have gates and walls auto regen hp’s once out of combat le’gasp!. Leave supply for upgrades, siege, and to repair while in combat.

That way nobody has to run supply just to repair the wall and we can all get back to zerging for wxp.

- Rewards for defending UP
- Rewards for Capping DOWN
- Scale rewards slightly up the longer a battle progresses
- Rewards for Capping upgraded objects scale UP
- Less risk = less rewards (zerg XP HAVE TO BE split!)

…or give at least ladder for:
- most dolyak runs /hour
- most kills / hour
- most rezzes performed / hour

etc. at least for me these things are way more pvp-oriented compared to some grind-only Level progression rank system.

Many lessons could be learned from the Dark Age of Camelot/Warhammer games on this matter.

Discouraging people to run around together would destroy the idea? Ok, well I’m pretty sure I remember Emain on most of my DAOC servers. The demising returns from a zerg vs a small group, did not effect the general populace of the game. They didn’t care, the followed people and slammed countless times into each other. Over and over, its not the WXP people should be looking for as much as a good time.

Someone said defending the keep rewards. Yes! Warhammer, they realized that when they started production on that game and implemented many rewards for defense. I would on some days sit for hours in a fort waiting for the attack because it was just as good if not better than going zone to zone taking those evil high elfs keeps back to the order zones and so on. Plus it allowed for early detection and a quick reaction if needed. Also, I still dont understand why guilds are claiming at this point maybe I missed something. The reason guilds would claim in these two games was to get a body count from guards when they would die and report.

The door/wall thing, they both gave exp on their games and some re-wards. I would love a WvW weekly defender. Focusing around building siege/repairing. Would make a ton of difference.

Limiting the zerg and doing alot of these things tho, make me think that many changes would be needed to even the layout of the WvW zone. I would highly recommend stretching it out or widening it out. Open field encounters, work wonders in mass zerg fights. It allows for guild “A” to try a Calvary charge from backing up and running around a mountain. Here, you can easily set up a few personnel and be fully preped for any open field military style tactics.

But I’m glad one of these issues are being worked on, but I still have little faith tho to see anything anytime soon. Thank god I don’t have to spend more money than I want to on this game.

The problem with WvW is that the rules encourage people to clump up for rewards.

The best solution is as follows:
- ALL players on the map gain rewards for any events completed by your team, regardless of how far the players are away from the event location.
- To prevent exploiters from just standing around and receiving credit, the player must be actively helping the team.
- The level of reward gained by the player is a function of a buff: Contribution.
- Players entering WvW will accumulate a Contribution Stack over time as they contribute to the effort through various methods (ie. defending yaks, defending towers, damaging, healing, bombarding with treb, etc).

I don’t understand why wXP is disallowed for yak runners simply as a Botting countermeasure.

Wxp doesnt buy anything of monetary value and thus has no effect on the economy. We can then deduce that if someone does bot for Wxp they have the Intention to come back and play the game once they accumulated enough.

What this means is you won’t see lots of strange named rangers huddling around yaks, just real characters meaning they will be easier to kill and/or ban.

DevonCarver.5370:

Jacklo.4230:

Please have the foresight NOT to reward for taking supplies from Keep or Tower… just saying

I’ll do no such thing!

Building random siege inside keep would be kinda annoying also >_> It already happens sometimes, for different reasons though – trolling, sabotaging by siege capping. If Wexp would be added, I wonder how it would end.

Can we also give a stacking bonus (1% for each squad member) for commanders when you cap a keep/tower ? These guys actually lead people to victory, they should get more!

The problem with rewarding this is that it will result in a abuse of it’s mechanics.

Escorting yakks used to give nice rewards, do you know what happened? About 20 bots would be escorting the 1 yakk. They removed the rewards and bots are no longer in wvw.

Imagine getting a good reward for every time you repair or build, your keep has 300 supply and it’s needed for an attack, everyone drains it on a door so they can get shinies…

Or imagine getting Wxp and golds for every siege weapon you build, your keep will be filled with irrelevant siege and the map would be siege capped in no time.

These types of things get abused and ruin the game, that’s why they don’t offer direct rewards, yet they are so important. Playing WvW properly and helping the entire server is a reward in itself. You don’t need shinies for that, especially since if you did, it would ruin the game.

Players who upgrade structures should also get rewarded if/when those upgrades complete. They are very expensive and you risk a big loss if they don’t finish.

Cirus.5748:

The problem with rewarding this is that it will result in a abuse of it’s mechanics.

Escorting yakks used to give nice rewards, do you know what happened? About 20 bots would be escorting the 1 yakk. They removed the rewards and bots are no longer in wvw.

Imagine getting a good reward for every time you repair or build, your keep has 300 supply and it’s needed for an attack, everyone drains it on a door so they can get shinies…

Or imagine getting Wxp and golds for every siege weapon you build, your keep will be filled with irrelevant siege and the map would be siege capped in no time.

These types of things get abused and ruin the game, that’s why they don’t offer direct rewards, yet they are so important. Playing WvW properly and helping the entire server is a reward in itself. You don’t need shinies for that, especially since if you did, it would ruin the game.

^this^

I’m amazed that so few players get this, but astounded that ANet doesn’t either.

Cactus.2710:

Cirus.5748:

The problem with rewarding this is that it will result in a abuse of it’s mechanics.

Escorting yakks used to give nice rewards, do you know what happened? About 20 bots would be escorting the 1 yakk. They removed the rewards and bots are no longer in wvw.

Imagine getting a good reward for every time you repair or build, your keep has 300 supply and it’s needed for an attack, everyone drains it on a door so they can get shinies…

Or imagine getting Wxp and golds for every siege weapon you build, your keep will be filled with irrelevant siege and the map would be siege capped in no time.

These types of things get abused and ruin the game, that’s why they don’t offer direct rewards, yet they are so important. Playing WvW properly and helping the entire server is a reward in itself. You don’t need shinies for that, especially since if you did, it would ruin the game.

^this^

I’m amazed that so few players get this, but astounded that ANet doesn’t either.

Nah, as it stands right now in my experience too many are riding on the coat tails of those who are doing all the unrewarded work – because they get more rewards running about. Something needs to be done about it and “they’ll exploit X” is a poor excuse for not coming up with some way to solve the problem.

While you are at it, remove WXP for killing useless things as the veteran Warg or the Ice Wurm. I really dont see why this rewards with the same amount of WXP as capping a supply camp.

DevonCarver.5370:

Jacklo.4230:

Please have the foresight NOT to reward for taking supplies from Keep or Tower… just saying

I’ll do no such thing!

Do I sense a negative WXP coming? Bwa ha ha haaaa

I spent…I don’t know how long running supply from the northeast camp to repair a wall at Hills once…it was below 50% when I started and 100% when I finished. Unfortunately by the time I was done I had died of boredom, so in my head I now think of it as the Laurelinde Memorial Wall.

I may be slightly mad, however.

I personally dont care about rewards, my reward is for my server, but we all know players who think about the logistics of war get shafted on the rewards end anyway. Im not so optimistic as the people who develope these things are not in our shoes and do not experience things on our level. They please the masses and not minority because its much easier lol.

SweetPotato.7456:

Players who run supply for repairs from camp to keep should get badges of honor.

its ridiculous that everyone is out zerging and getting tons of badges when this one person is not getting any because they are repairing walls.

All of my Yes.

I have over 50k supply used in WvW but its much easier to gain faster rewards running with karmma train than it is acutally running supply to repair/siege up, etc.

This type of change should not apply to repairing and running supply. It should also apply to defending (if this was said before, I apologize but I skim when it’s over 2 pages long). Right now, defending is like watching paint dry and no one wants to do that since there are no orbs to defend and as long what has been flipped is flipped back in under 15 minutes, there really is no penalty. Defending in general needs rewards.

I like the idea of being able to donate WXP/badges or better yet set up player funded rewards for various tasks.

People who are fighting all the time but understand the importance on non-combat tasks can then voluntarily transfer their WXP/badges. For example, right click on a wall and donate WXP for everyone that repairs it (awarded when fully repaired).

Straight transfers of rewards are probably the most flexible for handling noncombat rewards, but would let one character essentially transfer their rank to another (although having a maximum transfer rate would prevent instant rank transfer).

Perhaps a “WXP bonding” ability would be nice – any rewards earned by one character could be split with others who are bonded, letting sentries and other non-combatants earn from fighters they are indirectly supporting.

These sorts of player-run reward systems can generally handle noncombat rewards better than any rules, and provide a really nice way to reward people for all sorts of good play without additional coding, but run the risk of abuse, turning team play into something more mercenary (“I won’t help unless you pay”) and adding additional management headaches for commanders. Hard to say whether its a good tradeoff, but it feels to me that its worth a try.

Jacklo.4230:

But progress is progress. Don’t hold it back for the sake of what was.
There won’t be any turning back of the clock. I think it’s a case of being thankful for what you get.

We shouldn’t be thankful for an absolute garbage system. People left the game over this system, not really because it was so bad, but because they felt it was a strong indication of where ANET was going and that there is no future in the game.

High rank, atm, is effectively the equivalent of an up arrow.

Jacklo.4230:

Please have the foresight NOT to reward for taking supplies from Keep or Tower… just saying

This should be a bannable offense

Also add camps that are being upgraded.

Jacklo.4230:

Please have the foresight NOT to reward for taking supplies from Keep or Tower… just saying

If the Kee kitten itting at 1,700 out of 1,700 and has it’s supply up, how is it a bad thing to take some supply and run it to an empty tower? Those dolyaks show up and drop off nothing to a Keep full of supply.

It really is simply, allow the trading of WvW badges for Commander tag.

1. Rezzing/reviving downed-players is probably the #1 in need of WXP right now.

2. No WXP to building siege because that creates an environment of useless siege builds.

3. No WXP to repairing doors or walls unless keep/tower is not contested.

4. Buying keep/supply camp upgrades should grant WXP.

5. There should be a tick within every 15 minute interval (just like the server timer) to grant bonus (100% WXP 15 minute buff) to the player side that has had the greatest positive delta in score from prior tick. This encourages player and team strategy while allowing momentum to shift for any server every 15 minutes and the buff becomes a shorter-mini match focus.

EDIT: To clarify #5, I don’t mean the scoreboard leader keeps getting the bonus, I mean the “+250 changing to +265 score on the top” is compared to the other servers and the winner is based on the delta change here.

How does “keep is – sitting” get changed by the filter?

Hematuria.4051:

How does “keep is – sitting” get changed by the filter?

Look at the 4 letters between the second e in keep and the i in sitting.

First Come First Serve defensive assignments

• 2 minutes after the objective is taken, a Taskmaster spawns (1 for camp & Tower, 2 for Keep, 3-4 for Castle).
• The first X players that report to the Taskmaster get events around the objective and nearby supply camps. They also receive a buff.
• Running supply from camps grants rewards and refreshes the buff.
• Killing enemies in these areas grants rewards and refreshes the buff.
• Failure to accomplish anything within X minutes will end the buff, and having displeased the Taskmaster you can’t get it again for a short time.
• When the attack finally does start, the people in the tower can be the first ones to grab the Taskmaster buff and gain extra rewards during the defense fight.
• Buff should help with repair work and defending… possibilities include increased movement speed, increased repair speed, increased repair efficiency, increased siege damage, reduced damage from siege, increased toughness/vitality, etc.

The concept of First Come First Serve is already there… if you are late to a supply camp you get no supply and if you are late to the cannon someone else will be using it. The Taskmaster would be a first come first serve defensive assignment.

Almostfaceman.1804:

Cactus.2710:

Cirus.5748:

The problem with rewarding this is that it will result in a abuse of it’s mechanics.

Escorting yakks used to give nice rewards, do you know what happened? About 20 bots would be escorting the 1 yakk. They removed the rewards and bots are no longer in wvw.

Imagine getting a good reward for every time you repair or build, your keep has 300 supply and it’s needed for an attack, everyone drains it on a door so they can get shinies…

Or imagine getting Wxp and golds for every siege weapon you build, your keep will be filled with irrelevant siege and the map would be siege capped in no time.

These types of things get abused and ruin the game, that’s why they don’t offer direct rewards, yet they are so important. Playing WvW properly and helping the entire server is a reward in itself. You don’t need shinies for that, especially since if you did, it would ruin the game.

^this^

I’m amazed that so few players get this, but astounded that ANet doesn’t either.

Nah, as it stands right now in my experience too many are riding on the coat tails of those who are doing all the unrewarded work – because they get more rewards running about. Something needs to be done about it and “they’ll exploit X” is a poor excuse for not coming up with some way to solve the problem.

I really wasn’t clear since I was only responding to part of the situation, but I’m against individual rewards at all … I think they break the intent of WvW. Almost everyone zergs now because that’s the fastest way to get WXP no matter whether you’re team is winning or losing badly. I played Rift for quite a while and saw first hand exactly how this kind of thing happens when I played Conquest … Rift’s kitten version of 3-faction large scale objective-based PvP. I repeatedly used that example here on these forums to argue against individual rewards in WvW well before ANet implemented it in the March 26 patch.

So what would I do differently to give individual players a sense of contribution? One possibility would be to grant WXP to players based upon the point ticks their team receives while they were playing. That would at least encourage team play and more participation time. It would also force ANet to come up with a way to create balanced matches … which is probably why they will never do it.

Cactus.2710:

Almostfaceman.1804:

Cactus.2710:

Cirus.5748:

The problem with rewarding this is that it will result in a abuse of it’s mechanics.

Escorting yakks used to give nice rewards, do you know what happened? About 20 bots would be escorting the 1 yakk. They removed the rewards and bots are no longer in wvw.

Imagine getting a good reward for every time you repair or build, your keep has 300 supply and it’s needed for an attack, everyone drains it on a door so they can get shinies…

Or imagine getting Wxp and golds for every siege weapon you build, your keep will be filled with irrelevant siege and the map would be siege capped in no time.

These types of things get abused and ruin the game, that’s why they don’t offer direct rewards, yet they are so important. Playing WvW properly and helping the entire server is a reward in itself. You don’t need shinies for that, especially since if you did, it would ruin the game.

^this^

I’m amazed that so few players get this, but astounded that ANet doesn’t either.

Nah, as it stands right now in my experience too many are riding on the coat tails of those who are doing all the unrewarded work – because they get more rewards running about. Something needs to be done about it and “they’ll exploit X” is a poor excuse for not coming up with some way to solve the problem.

I really wasn’t clear since I was only responding to part of the situation, but I’m against individual rewards at all … I think they break the intent of WvW. Almost everyone zergs now because that’s the fastest way to get WXP no matter whether you’re team is winning or losing badly. I played Rift for quite a while and saw first hand exactly how this kind of thing happens when I played Conquest … Rift’s kitten version of 3-faction large scale objective-based PvP. I repeatedly used that example here on these forums to argue against individual rewards in WvW well before ANet implemented it in the March 26 patch.

So what would I do differently to give individual players a sense of contribution? One possibility would be to grant WXP to players based upon the point ticks their team receives while they were playing. That would at least encourage team play and more participation time. It would also force ANet to come up with a way to create balanced matches … which is probably why they will never do it.

This is not about individual this or that, this is about the logistics of WvW, and the few fools that run supply for it. We are getting shafted everynight and we know it, its not fair accross the board, its not fair and equal for us, and 90% of WvW’ers dont know how important it is but if we dont do it, well than yea theyll see how important it can be.

Hematuria.4051:

Jacklo.4230:

Please have the foresight NOT to reward for taking supplies from Keep or Tower… just saying

If the Kee kitten itting at 1,700 out of 1,700 and has it’s supply up, how is it a bad thing to take some supply and run it to an empty tower? Those dolyaks show up and drop off nothing to a Keep full of supply.

This is very true. Some people have been brainwashed into thinking it’s never OK to take supply from a keep/tower unless it’s under attack or has just survived an attack, or a commander says to, but that’s just not the case. Supply management is a critical tactic that gets oversimplified by a lot of people. I’d rather have a Garrison with 1000 supplies and an intelligently and thoroughly sieged up inner than a Garrison with 1700 supplies and no siege or only token siege. Good luck getting much help running those 700 supplies from camps from your server mates.

Littlefeather.8623:

Cactus.2710:

Almostfaceman.1804:

Cactus.2710:

Cirus.5748:

The problem with rewarding this is that it will result in a abuse of it’s mechanics.

Escorting yakks used to give nice rewards, do you know what happened? About 20 bots would be escorting the 1 yakk. They removed the rewards and bots are no longer in wvw.

Imagine getting a good reward for every time you repair or build, your keep has 300 supply and it’s needed for an attack, everyone drains it on a door so they can get shinies…

Or imagine getting Wxp and golds for every siege weapon you build, your keep will be filled with irrelevant siege and the map would be siege capped in no time.

These types of things get abused and ruin the game, that’s why they don’t offer direct rewards, yet they are so important. Playing WvW properly and helping the entire server is a reward in itself. You don’t need shinies for that, especially since if you did, it would ruin the game.

^this^

I’m amazed that so few players get this, but astounded that ANet doesn’t either.

Nah, as it stands right now in my experience too many are riding on the coat tails of those who are doing all the unrewarded work – because they get more rewards running about. Something needs to be done about it and “they’ll exploit X” is a poor excuse for not coming up with some way to solve the problem.

I really wasn’t clear since I was only responding to part of the situation, but I’m against individual rewards at all … I think they break the intent of WvW. Almost everyone zergs now because that’s the fastest way to get WXP no matter whether you’re team is winning or losing badly. I played Rift for quite a while and saw first hand exactly how this kind of thing happens when I played Conquest … Rift’s kitten version of 3-faction large scale objective-based PvP. I repeatedly used that example here on these forums to argue against individual rewards in WvW well before ANet implemented it in the March 26 patch.

So what would I do differently to give individual players a sense of contribution? One possibility would be to grant WXP to players based upon the point ticks their team receives while they were playing. That would at least encourage team play and more participation time. It would also force ANet to come up with a way to create balanced matches … which is probably why they will never do it.

This is not about individual this or that, this is about the logistics of WvW, and the few fools that run supply for it. We are getting shafted everynight and we know it, its not fair accross the board, its not fair and equal for us, and 90% of WvW’ers dont know how important it is but if we dont do it, well than yea theyll see how important it can be.

I don’t understand your reasoning, or lack thereof. All of this is EXACTLY about individual rewards. You wouldn’t be complaining about getting shafted if ANet hadn’t put in place a system that grants individual rewards for kills but not for other things (like running supply) that contribute so greatly to team score. You might feel under-appreciated, but that’s not the same as saying you’re being “shafted”.

My point is that individual rewards that aren’t based upon team performance will ALWAYS undermine team activity. They pit team mate against team mate in terms of intent … in exactly the disgruntled manner that you display here.

Cactus.2710:

Littlefeather.8623:

Cactus.2710:

Almostfaceman.1804:

Cactus.2710:

Cirus.5748:

The problem with rewarding this is that it will result in a abuse of it’s mechanics.

Escorting yakks used to give nice rewards, do you know what happened? About 20 bots would be escorting the 1 yakk. They removed the rewards and bots are no longer in wvw.

Imagine getting a good reward for every time you repair or build, your keep has 300 supply and it’s needed for an attack, everyone drains it on a door so they can get shinies…

Or imagine getting Wxp and golds for every siege weapon you build, your keep will be filled with irrelevant siege and the map would be siege capped in no time.

These types of things get abused and ruin the game, that’s why they don’t offer direct rewards, yet they are so important. Playing WvW properly and helping the entire server is a reward in itself. You don’t need shinies for that, especially since if you did, it would ruin the game.

^this^

I’m amazed that so few players get this, but astounded that ANet doesn’t either.

Nah, as it stands right now in my experience too many are riding on the coat tails of those who are doing all the unrewarded work – because they get more rewards running about. Something needs to be done about it and “they’ll exploit X” is a poor excuse for not coming up with some way to solve the problem.

I really wasn’t clear since I was only responding to part of the situation, but I’m against individual rewards at all … I think they break the intent of WvW. Almost everyone zergs now because that’s the fastest way to get WXP no matter whether you’re team is winning or losing badly. I played Rift for quite a while and saw first hand exactly how this kind of thing happens when I played Conquest … Rift’s kitten version of 3-faction large scale objective-based PvP. I repeatedly used that example here on these forums to argue against individual rewards in WvW well before ANet implemented it in the March 26 patch.

So what would I do differently to give individual players a sense of contribution? One possibility would be to grant WXP to players based upon the point ticks their team receives while they were playing. That would at least encourage team play and more participation time. It would also force ANet to come up with a way to create balanced matches … which is probably why they will never do it.

This is not about individual this or that, this is about the logistics of WvW, and the few fools that run supply for it. We are getting shafted everynight and we know it, its not fair accross the board, its not fair and equal for us, and 90% of WvW’ers dont know how important it is but if we dont do it, well than yea theyll see how important it can be.

I don’t understand your reasoning, or lack thereof. All of this is EXACTLY about individual rewards. You wouldn’t be complaining about getting shafted if ANet hadn’t put in place a system that grants individual rewards for kills but not for other things (like running supply) that contribute so greatly to team score. You might feel under-appreciated, but that’s not the same as saying you’re being “shafted”.

My point is that individual rewards that aren’t based upon team performance will ALWAYS undermine team activity. They pit team mate against team mate in terms of intent … in exactly the disgruntled manner that you display here.

I can careless about rewards personally, we all know people dont do it because it doesnt reward those who do.

I used to do this, everyday, I even askd for volunteers to help me seige up something or whatever, but hardly any one cared. Well sometimes a few people did help, and it was only then when a defensive team of mine repelled multiple 50-70 man zerg hits on a tower like ogrewatch or keep like AH or Bay, that people began to see how important it is. But still no one wants to be on that team, every one wants to be on the karmma train. Which I excersise as a commander, but then no one is seiging anything up so all of our structures are paper.

This is why I an so disgruntled, not becuase the rewards, but because 99% of people can careless to do it, only because the lack of rewards.

Want to lessen the WXP zerg train…reduce the amount of WXP gained when within range of allied players more than 10 strong.
If you are in a zerg train of 50+, WXP gained from player kills should drop drastically (% decrease per players beyond 10 in the train)
Objectives should also have decreased WXP gain when in enemy BLs and EB territory within large zergs. (no penalty should be taken for defending your homeland territory with however many you can muster up.)
Towers, Keeps and Castle would have a higher player cap and less of a WXP decrease as it should take more players to conquer vs a good defense.

Maybe more people who are after that WXP will look for smaller groups to roam with.

All I can come up with atm. have to get back to work.

Why not use already existing mechanics? Its so easy…

+x% WXP/Karma/Gold Bonus Buff in the area around a given objective (dolyak,keep,…) which:
- stacks up with each kill
- stacks up for each siege set up
- stacks up with each repair
- stacks up every x minutes remaining in the area
- leaving the area/dying deletes the stack!

Most pvp-objectives already can register who is around in the area (dolyak count, guild buffs) and if you left the “zone”, which would delete the accumulated stack.
And the higher the stack gets the more interessted a player would be to keep the buff and stay around for defense/repairs or in hopes of new attacks.
Still, its no automatic reward for “standing around doing nothing”, but those players who did invest their time/effort will be rewarded better should an attack happen.

This would prevent bots/reward leecher from recieving rewards, still rewards for doing defense/escorts and warding off enemies would rise the longer/more effort each player puts into it.

Littlefeather.8623:

Cactus.2710:

Littlefeather.8623:

Cactus.2710:

Almostfaceman.1804:

Cactus.2710:

Cirus.5748:

The problem with rewarding this is that it will result in a abuse of it’s mechanics.

Escorting yakks used to give nice rewards, do you know what happened? About 20 bots would be escorting the 1 yakk. They removed the rewards and bots are no longer in wvw.

Imagine getting a good reward for every time you repair or build, your keep has 300 supply and it’s needed for an attack, everyone drains it on a door so they can get shinies…

Or imagine getting Wxp and golds for every siege weapon you build, your keep will be filled with irrelevant siege and the map would be siege capped in no time.

These types of things get abused and ruin the game, that’s why they don’t offer direct rewards, yet they are so important. Playing WvW properly and helping the entire server is a reward in itself. You don’t need shinies for that, especially since if you did, it would ruin the game.

^this^

I’m amazed that so few players get this, but astounded that ANet doesn’t either.

Nah, as it stands right now in my experience too many are riding on the coat tails of those who are doing all the unrewarded work – because they get more rewards running about. Something needs to be done about it and “they’ll exploit X” is a poor excuse for not coming up with some way to solve the problem.

I really wasn’t clear since I was only responding to part of the situation, but I’m against individual rewards at all … I think they break the intent of WvW. Almost everyone zergs now because that’s the fastest way to get WXP no matter whether you’re team is winning or losing badly. I played Rift for quite a while and saw first hand exactly how this kind of thing happens when I played Conquest … Rift’s kitten version of 3-faction large scale objective-based PvP. I repeatedly used that example here on these forums to argue against individual rewards in WvW well before ANet implemented it in the March 26 patch.

So what would I do differently to give individual players a sense of contribution? One possibility would be to grant WXP to players based upon the point ticks their team receives while they were playing. That would at least encourage team play and more participation time. It would also force ANet to come up with a way to create balanced matches … which is probably why they will never do it.

This is not about individual this or that, this is about the logistics of WvW, and the few fools that run supply for it. We are getting shafted everynight and we know it, its not fair accross the board, its not fair and equal for us, and 90% of WvW’ers dont know how important it is but if we dont do it, well than yea theyll see how important it can be.

I don’t understand your reasoning, or lack thereof. All of this is EXACTLY about individual rewards. You wouldn’t be complaining about getting shafted if ANet hadn’t put in place a system that grants individual rewards for kills but not for other things (like running supply) that contribute so greatly to team score. You might feel under-appreciated, but that’s not the same as saying you’re being “shafted”.

My point is that individual rewards that aren’t based upon team performance will ALWAYS undermine team activity. They pit team mate against team mate in terms of intent … in exactly the disgruntled manner that you display here.

I can careless about rewards personally, we all know people dont do it because it doesnt reward those who do.

I used to do this, everyday, I even askd for volunteers to help me seige up something or whatever, but hardly any one cared. Well sometimes a few people did help, and it was only then when a defensive team of mine repelled multiple 50-70 man zerg hits on a tower like ogrewatch or keep like AH or Bay, that people began to see how important it is. But still no one wants to be on that team, every one wants to be on the karmma train. Which I excersise as a commander, but then no one is seiging anything up so all of our structures are paper.

This is why I an so disgruntled, not becuase the rewards, but because 99% of people can careless to do it, only because the lack of rewards.

OK … I can completely understand that point of view. I sometimes fight with the group because it can actually be useful (you can’t hold onto an objective until you first take it), but I and many members of my guild are often the ones breaking off from the zerg to repair gates/walls and lay down defensive siege. We do it because it in most cases it needs to be done and lots of players, as you say, can’t be bothered to do it. It’s often a pretty thankless task, though.