WvW with RTS elements

WvW with RTS elements

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Posted by: defrule.7236

defrule.7236

One of the things I find a shame in WvW is that each map is fixed in stone, Eternal, Borderlands, they all remain the same from match to match and the only thing that does change is ownership.

Real time strategy games have a perk in that the same maps can be played very differently. In one matchup players might build walls and towers one way but in another matchup they might build it another way. The same map can result in a very different match.

My idea of introducing RTS elements into WvW is to give more diverse battles. No more pre-determined forts/keeps and fixed locations, you begin each match with a clean sheet. Unspoiled terrain with caves, forests, mountains, oceans, you name it and it is there.

You begin at your home village aka your spawn essentially. Your spawn has a wood supply camp which gives a low but steady supply of wood to allow you to build outwards. You can build forts anywhere, any size and any layout you want. You can build a Helm’s Deep style fortress at a good location or you can build standard looking forts we have now.

Building anywhere? People would spam structures all over the place! Now here is the catch. You can build anywhere provided you can transport the materials to that location to build it. In theory, you can build a fort right outside the enemy spawn first thing but Dolyaks would take a long time to transport materials to the build site and they will be very vulnerable to attack in their long journey. The closer you decide to build the fort, the shorter the distance the Dolyak needs to travel to get wood to it.

What stops me building tons of stuff near my spawn? You can do that but think of it as building 10 trebuchets at the same time versus building one trebuchet after another. The wood supply at your spawn is steady but low so if you build many things at once then progress will be slow on all structures.

As you progress into the map, more resources open up, stone, gold and more wood. Securing stone will allow you to build stone structures and gold will allow you to hire better guards. These resources will be contested over by all three sides.

Sieging is no longer done by blueprints and supply. In order to siege a keep, you need to build the siege weapon and transport it to the location. As an example, your team might have a lumbercamp near an enemy castle that you want to siege. You would build the trebuchet in the lumbercamp and have a Dolyak pull it to the castle to deploy. Be careful though, enemies can easily kill the guard escorting the Dolyak and lead it back their their own base for use. The same applies to any Dolyak transporting wood/gold/stone, enemies can kill the guard and lead the Dolyak back to camp to take the supply or they can destroy it on the spot.

The idea behind this is to introduce logistics into the game. You choose where you want your keeps/forts. You arrange materials to be transported to the locations that need it. You arrange to have siege weapons transported to the front lines.

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Posted by: Antiriad.7160

Antiriad.7160

could make maps consisting of single “pieces” that are put together randomly every now and then or might be a really bad idea :-p

Colin ‘The Liar’ Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on equal power base.”

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Posted by: defrule.7236

defrule.7236

could make maps consisting of single “pieces” that are put together randomly every now and then or might be a really bad idea :-p

Reminds me of minecraft a bit lol.

I was thinking that with my proposal, they can create many different maps and rotate them each week.

Different maps call for different building strategies.

Even if you play on the same map week in week out, the dynamics of the match would be different each time because people will build thing differently.

Sieging would be about preparation more than showing up with blueprints and supply. You would build siege camps to act as a rally point to siege.

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Posted by: EasymodeX.4062

EasymodeX.4062

I’ll randomly point out that the 3 borderlands do have different strategies and tactics as-is.

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Posted by: defrule.7236

defrule.7236

Think of it this way. Imagine it was me versus you versus Joe.

Suppose we fight in Eternal as it is now, there is freedom in what we the players do. But as for the map itself, there is no freedom because Eternal is the same this week, next week and the week after.

Now suppose we were on a clean map with free building capability. This week I might have a keep right on top of a mountain, next week I might have a castle by a river, the week after I might have a “Great Wall of China” on the map.

Not only are your tactics going to change, the map play differently every week because of the free building choices. Technically it is the same map but we the players build it into something different.

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Posted by: Scilly.9315

Scilly.9315

Think of it this way. Imagine it was me versus you versus Joe.

Suppose we fight in Eternal as it is now, there is freedom in what we the players do. But as for the map itself, there is no freedom because Eternal is the same this week, next week and the week after.

Now suppose we were on a clean map with free building capability. This week I might have a keep right on top of a mountain, next week I might have a castle by a river, the week after I might have a “Great Wall of China” on the map.

Not only are your tactics going to change, the map play differently every week because of the free building choices. Technically it is the same map but we the players build it into something different.

you are explaining a game 1million% different to this game, it would be impossible currently.. and the near future.. sorry

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Posted by: Windmoor.9834

Windmoor.9834

The problem I see with this is; Who chooses what to build where?

Everyone sees thier ideal placement as the best spot, and with 166 players per server per map. Nothing would ever get built.

Don’t fear the unknown, CONQUER IT!!!

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Posted by: Scilly.9315

Scilly.9315

The problem I see with this is; Who chooses what to build where?

Everyone sees thier ideal placement as the best spot, and with 166 players per server per map. Nothing would ever get built.

or griefed to poop

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Posted by: defrule.7236

defrule.7236

Very true Windmoor. It would almost resemble all the taking supply from keeps we currently have. Ideally, the community should be discuss and come to a consensus but in practice it won’t go this way. I don’t know what kind of system should be put in place but regardless, I personally wouldn’t want “building permission” to be given to a select few.

Everyone might have their ideal placements but I think dynamics of battle will weed out the poor ones. Suppose two sites were being built, site one is very close to the enemy castle and site two is near a lumber camp currently under our control further away from the castle.

Site two is far more likely to be successfully built then site one because it is closer to the wood, further away from enemies. Site one on the other hand, enemies can raid it, Dolyak has to travel further which means a longer route and higher risk of getting ganked and it also means slower build rate.

However, you might decide that you want build a “supply hub” like those supermarket distribution centres. This in turn might make site one easier to build.

But in general, something to stop griefing would be needed but how it should be done I’m not sure.

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Posted by: EasymodeX.4062

EasymodeX.4062

So …

Did you ever play Savage 1?

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Posted by: defrule.7236

defrule.7236

No I haven’t, just read it on wikipedia and it sounds interesting!

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Posted by: EasymodeX.4062

EasymodeX.4062

Yep. Basically an RTS-FPS hybrid, although the FPS part included 10 RPG-ish levels. The commander actually built buildings in an RTS fashion, and all units except basic workers are actual players. It was a very, very good game. One of the few FPS games that had rather good melee combat, too.

The commander could be voted out, and could only troll a short game though. Not congruous to GW2. At best I would suggest that guild keep claimers could determine some general options on keep layout. However, that’s still an unnecessary level of complexity for ANet to implement, when keeps already have dynamic defense strategies (players can choose whether to set up defenses, e.g. siege, for lord room defense, inner wall defense, multi-floor lord room defense, outer wall defense, courtyard defense, etc etc, which gates/walls to cover, which to not really cover).

Enabling a player to control the layout of the map in an MMORPG just sounds ripe for failure.

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