Guild Wars 2

Couldn’t wait for the WvW patch next month to see what changes they bring?

ComeAndSee.1356:

Couldn’t wait for the WvW patch next month to see what changes they bring?

The changes they are planning to bring are only going to add a modicum of ‘progression’ to WvW. It will not fix its inherent lack of depth, consequence, zergvzerg metagame the lack of roles for guilds in WvW nor Commander.

So no.

Eclipses.7152:

TL;DR:

1. Commander is an absolute mess
2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking
3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)
4. The lack of Rewards/Progression/Depth/Consequence
5. The devs, their implementation of and lack of commitment to Wvw

Funny thing: I have only read your tl;dr and I already know that I disagree with each and every of your five points.

WvW is a hellova lot of fun for me already in its current, partially flawed form. Can’t wait for the March update.

Anyways, have fun discussing your points.

~MRA

MRA.4758:

Eclipses.7152:

TL;DR:

1. Commander is an absolute mess
2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking
3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)
4. The lack of Rewards/Progression/Depth/Consequence
5. The devs, their implementation of and lack of commitment to Wvw

Funny thing: I have read your tl;dr and I already know that I disagree with each and every of your five points.

WvW is a hellova lot fun for me already in its current, partially flawed form. Can’t wait for the March update.

Anyways, have fun discussing your points.

~MRA

To each their own, though I don’t know how you can possibly disagree that there is a lack of rewards in WvW vs other game types not that the devs have almost completely disregarded WvW.

Eclipses.7152:

To each their own, though I don’t know how you can possibly disagree that there is a lack of rewards in WvW vs other game types not that the devs have almost completely disregarded WvW.

Oh, that is easy: I measure reward in games in ‘fun’ (a term I used three times in my post, as I just notice), and not in green, yellow, orange or even purple color coded virtual items.

Plus, working in software development myself, I know what a complicated task building such systems can be. Therefore, I am patient with the developers.

~MRA

Just because you want to have a personal metric of reward that goes against the specific metric the OP was discussing, doesn’t give you a valid complaint.

You’re just disagreeing to disagree.

Found it a good read. I agree with most of it.

Dude I read everything and COMPLETELY agree with everything you said. My bro and I have been upset with and complaining about WvW for a few months now, basically saying everything you said and more. It’s sad really that the PvP in this game is such a joke because all ANet does is nerf things that don’t need to be nerfed (just to please the few casuals that come on the forums) and add in things while not fixing the main problems.

I’m really hoping they surprise me with this next update and add some depth to WvW, but we’ll see. Even if this update does go well, they’ll still have a long way to go before they make WvW what we all imagined and hoped it would be.

They need to make this game in general more challenging and deeper or it’ll die out before it turns a year old, and I don’t want this to happen at all!

Great post with a lot of valid points. I hope they improve the game, because I currently cannot talk myself into logging back on after 3 weeks away.

I have every square inch of WvW memorized and thousands of badges with nothing to do. But hey, Joe blow over there just spent $80 and bought Commander, so let’s follow him.

I’ve seen plenty of posters say the same thing Eclipses, but it always makes me happy to see someone actually take the effort to truly explain why WvW is currently in a bad place. Given the fact that there are currently threads on the front page with Anet replies, not a single thread with legitimate grievances is being replied to. This just helps prove Anet has no desire to confront the myriad number of problems facing not just WvW, but the game in general.

@OP. My thoughts on your points.

1. Agree completely. Commander needs to be earned in some way. At the very least, we should be able to vote to remove a commander’s icon for some period of time.
2. Guilds should be addressed. Here is one idea: If you claim a tower/keep/supply and put buffs on it, your guild receives some reward. If you claim a tower/keep/supply just to see your flag fly, your guild loses rewards. My biggest pet peeve is people who claim towers/keeps/supply without the ability to buff it.
3. I personally do not mind the zerg vs zerg battles. I do agree about the AOE limit though. It needs to be removed. I am tired of hearing commanders yell stack.
4. Seems like this is coming in March so no major comments here.
5. The sad part about culling is that they tested a culling change in December. It failed and had to be reverted. For some reason ANET decided to roll it out again. I wonder if they are actually surprised that it failed again.

I agree with your no. 2 & 4 statements. No. 5 is also obvious but since they are supposed to release a patch specifically for WvW firmly soon I’ll hold judgement till then.

However, no. 3 is clearly how they WANT WvW to be. All of their updates suggest so.

As for no. 1, you can quickly learn which commanders are good and which are bad. Most of the time by glancing at the guild tag. However, I do think there are better ways to earn the title.

A few of the points in the OP I can agree with, others I can’t. The lack of progression/recognition is an issue I can see some people having – there doesn’t seem to be any reward worth mentioning for playing/being successful in WvW. However, the devs have a system in the making that should address that.

I completely disagree with the idea of elevating any individual guild’s role/reward over the general population though. WvW isn’t GvG. It’s not a guild effort, it’s a -server- effort. Why should one WvWer get more rewards than another just because they are wearing a different guild tag? I don’t get that, because they were storming that keep side by side, bleeding the same blood and hurting the enemy the same way, no? I don’t know about your server, but on mine -rarely- any objective is captured/defended by just one guild. While some guild tags are definitely more present than others, the majority of any larger group seems to be made of the people you refer to as “PUGs” (we call them “militia” on our server). These people pull their weight just as much as those in the big WvW guilds, and I think they deserve the same recognition for it, don’t you think?

I agree with the commander thing. It’s silly that it requires money to get and not badges. However, since the blue icon means nothing without people actually following you, the issue isn’t as big as it might appear at first. People will learn to follow the good commanders and ignore the bad ones anyway.

About the zerg thing I have mixed feelings. Yes, I think WvW should be more than just throwing 1-2 large zergs at each other, but zergs definitely should remain a major aspect of WvW, for I think that large-scale battles are part of the reason that makes WvW -feel- massive. Adding more options for smaller groups could be something I could get behind, though.

W3 has problems. I agree with the OP on most of his complaints, but I think the situation is even worse than he portrayed.

Here’s a few more problems I can’t ignore anymore.

1. Night-Capping is a problem – regardless of what the developers believe. I’m sure they keep hoping that things will settle themselves with regard to time frame coverage, but this is only happening on the top 4-5 servers – and even then – there are still mismatches.
2. The fact that the three borderland maps are identical is ridiculous. How this made it through to release amazes me.
3. Having no ability to form larger parties – as mentioned by the OP – is frustrating. Having a limit of 15-20 would encourage teams to operate at that size and would go some way towards discouraging Zergs. Zergs will be the death of this game in my opinion.
4. Stonemist is a problem that needs to be solved. Do you know why it doesn’t constantly change hands? Because not many people want to fight there, where the lag is so bad you can barely auto-attack. Forget trying to heal yourself or use any of your abilities – the lag is just too severe. If you cant fix the lag and the culling, then remove Stonemist as a must have objective. One of the main reasons people attack it now is to remove trebuchets that are harassing the surrounding towers. Once the trebuchets are removed – the advancing army retreats without even trying to enter the Lord’s Room – where the lag monster will eat you up.
5. The Laurel method of buying ascended gear takes too long if all you do is W3. Simply put, I’m not grinding for 30+ days in W3 in order to get ONE piece of gear. No thanks. I thought they said in the beginning that this was not going to be a grind-fest!

I could list more – but frankly – I’m starting to care less and less. I haven’t played in two days – and frankly – I don’t have any desire to do so at the moment. I have high hopes for Elder Scrolls Online. The fact that I’m even thinking about that proves to me that I’m losing interest. The problems, restrictions, and frustrations overwhelm any fun I have going player versus player – which is still pretty kitten good in this game. If you can find it among the forest of Zergs running around.

I wish I had written this, but I couldn’t have said it better.

I completely agree the OP and his points.

“Only a WvW player has 10g in the bank and thinks he’s rich”.

Ive just loaded up the WvW forums to have a look how its going after i quit for all the reason the OP just stated, and one additional one… i got forum banned for saying how bad they had implemented WvW and how no hardcore openpvp player will stick with this game…..

Its sad that now after so many months they havnt fixed the culling issue??? they still only allow aoe’s to hit like 5 people? how the hell does this promote open field tactics within there small maps?

I could go on but i cba to put that much effort into a game that has flopped so badly, and i feel sorry for the OP. He/She obv cares alot about this game as have many others who have left disappointed.. i can ensure you theres hundreds if not thousands of people who will never ever reinstall this game ever again due to the game breaking flaws they cannot fix..

doubt ill even check back anymore, eclipse just quit mate… they got your money they dont care…

I have to say I completely agree with pretty much everything you’ve said here.

Who is ‘we’? Is that a french mouse in your pocket?

Game is still new and I’m sure they will develop and add things over time. There is no substitute for the WvW we have now so I’m thankful to have it and look forward to more in the future.

Eclipses.7152:

Back in beta they were called on over and over again to change this mechanic: require badges instead, or kills, or tower captures – ANYTHING that was actually related to WvW and showed you had experience. We were rebuffed and instead we have a system that discourages the devs to create a guild raid system, encourages inexperienced individuals to lead WvW, encourages zerging and hobbles tactical play and engenders an attitude of petulance that simply because you have a blue icon – you know what’s best.

The WvW devs should honestly be ashamed that Commander is in the game the way that it is right now.

This appears to be the one thing that won’t be in the WvW patch. According to a post made at the beginning of Jan a dev said they had no plans to change this system anytime soon.

The lack of proper grouping systems and tools for guilds and multiple groups to run together is disappointing. The commander and squad system still feels like it’s in early beta testing. Out of the last 5 MMO’s I’ve played, GW2 has the least effective grouping system for multiple groups or groups larger than 5 people. And one of those MMO’s I’ve played is over 10 years old.

I realize culling and que/bugs are the primary issues, but implementing an EFFECTIVE grouping system for more than 5 people is needed.

Sureshot.6725:

Who is ‘we’? Is that a french mouse in your pocket?

Game is still new and I’m sure they will develop and add things over time. There is no substitute for the WvW we have now so I’m thankful to have it and look forward to more in the future.

your correct on one thing, there is no open world pvp game that does not allow you to see your enemy during a fight, or hit all the enemy attacking you.. both reasons why its a flop… you should check out some real open world pvp games.. it might broaden your attitude towards this game

Ahmrill.7512:

Eclipses.7152:

Back in beta they were called on over and over again to change this mechanic: require badges instead, or kills, or tower captures – ANYTHING that was actually related to WvW and showed you had experience. We were rebuffed and instead we have a system that discourages the devs to create a guild raid system, encourages inexperienced individuals to lead WvW, encourages zerging and hobbles tactical play and engenders an attitude of petulance that simply because you have a blue icon – you know what’s best.

The WvW devs should honestly be ashamed that Commander is in the game the way that it is right now.

This appears to be the one thing that won’t be in the WvW patch. According to a post made at the beginning of Jan a dev said they had no plans to change this system anytime soon.

snip

they will never change it because its to much of a cash cow for them

I know I’m about to be the bad guy forum poster here but the game has only been out for six months. They probably had no idea that WvW would be as popular as it is now and lettuce be cereal, we would not be posting in this section of the forum all the time if we didn’t want changes/implementations made to WvW cause admittedly, it is my favorite part of the game and it’s pretty great. Things do need to change, and being able to buy commander with gold was not only a bad idea but it shouldn’t have been a “feature” in the first place. I do agree with a majority of what you said but the commander icon acquisition is one of the things that bothers me the most.

Now with all that said, give them some time. I’m sure there are some major changes and quality of life improvements in the pipeline for WvW but development and testing does take some time to implement (I feel like things might be easier with a PTR type of thing, even if having perma-access wasn’t free, I’d pay 400-500 gems to be a PTR tester). Things will get better for us hardcore WvW’ers, just need to give them constructive ideas and such to go along with.

I understand that people say that patience is important. I agree. I understand that even if the developers wanted to add the kinds of things people are demanding that they have to actually create that content and that that process takes time.

But at the same time I think consumers of any product should be encouraged to point out perceived flaws in a product they’re spending money and/or time on. If Anet’s goal is to make their WvW player base happy then hopefully they’ll read these sorts of posts and perhaps try to communicate with the player base about what is and is not possible.

I agree with virtually all of the OP, although I’m not in favor of prioritizing guild over server. #5 is particularly on target, though … the lack of commitment and follow through on fixing critical bugs and adding promised content in WvW is simply appalling. There really is no excuse for it if they have any interest at all in retaining their player base. There were a lot of bad decisions (not enough server-side bandwidth, poor choice of game engine, some really bad coding, etc) made when this game rolled out, but six months has been plenty of time to fix everything except the engine if the devs actually cared. I also am strongly looking forward to Elder Scrolls Online, and unless Zenimax is blind they will treat GW2’s WvW as a template for how a decent concept can be ruined with bad execution.

I agree totaly with the OP.

As founder and Co-leader of a competitive WvW guild myself, I cant avoid seeing myself in all the feeling your post delivers.

The only thing I am not so sure of is the progression / reward. I agree this should exist but maby not as gear or ability rewards. For me, titles, achievements or cool skins would be enough… or something of the like, something unique and difficult that only hardcore WvW players could aspire to have.

About the rest of your post, I just totally agree, I am so shocked that WvW has been so low in the devs priorities I just cant understand it.

Scilly.9315:

Sureshot.6725:

Who is ‘we’? Is that a french mouse in your pocket?

Game is still new and I’m sure they will develop and add things over time. There is no substitute for the WvW we have now so I’m thankful to have it and look forward to more in the future.

your correct on one thing, there is no open world pvp game that does not allow you to see your enemy during a fight, or hit all the enemy attacking you.. both reasons why its a flop… you should check out some real open world pvp games.. it might broaden your attitude towards this game

Weird are we playing the same game? I don’t have issues hitting players unless I’m out of range, blinded or they dodge which are game mechanics.

Anyway I’m up for considering other MMOs with open world PvP as long the following apply.

- They do not require a subscription
- Do not feature a continuous gear grind where gear is king and skill/build is second.
- Does not require macro/3rd party utilities to be competitive.

I’d love to hear of one that meets those simple requirements. I’d even be willing to waive the subscription requirement.

Israel.7056:

If Anet’s goal is to make their WvW player base happy then hopefully they’ll read these sorts of posts and perhaps try to communicate with the player base about what is and is not possible.

Good luck with that. Browse through the last few months posts on any key issue you can think of and lets us know how many responses, or even acknowledgements, you can find.

Eclipses.7152:

1. Commander is an absolute mess
2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking
3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)
4. The lack of Rewards/Progression/Depth/Consequence
5. The devs, their implementation of and lack of commitment to Wvw

Some of this I agree with, some of it not so much.

Things I agree with and things that I don’t think need any elaboration upon: #1, #4, #5. I lied a bit and will say that I hope the new hires will come out of the woodwork and post on these forums. I would love to hear from them, see what they are working on, and engage in a conversation similar to what the Jons are doing for sPvP. That’s how you fix something that’s broken, not by remaining a deaf mute. (Also #4 is on the way to getting fixed, and I really like the sound of WvW-only skills to make it such that we don’t need 30 mesmers, or 30 eles, by placing key utility skills in the skill bracket.)

But I really don’t agree with #2 and #3 in full, at least.

#2:
For us, on Blackgate, guilds are recognized as are the commanders who don’t even need tags to lead: Smokee, Riven, Graphicardo, Sladie, etc. Greatly in fact. That banner in the sky? Is it KnT? Is it HB? Is it Urge? Is it Thai? Is it ICoa? Is it LotD? Is it GoF? Is it RK? Is it my tiny guild that no one knows about and I won’t tell anyone anything about? (At this point, even other servers know HB’s tag and run away from them.) (I hope I didn’t forget anyone… please don’t kill me!) I understand the view of the point that the game does not reward guilds with “things” for doing “guild things” and I do agree that it can be certainly worked on, but to say that Guilds don’t get recognized is a bit odd (especially since all of us at BG know your guild, RG). The game doesn’t need to tell me XYZ took PQR, I know and everyone on the map knows who took what by paying attention in TS, in map chat, and just by recognizing the tags running around. Even a ninja take is celebrated and recognized. I don’t see why my screen needs to be cluttered with announcements for something I’m already well aware of…

Do these guilds deserve a greater reward? I think so, yes. And I hope that (given the upcoming developments of guilds in general in the Feb patch, and the progression system in the March patch) they will get their just deserts. That said I don’t think that guild’s or their good commanders (and in this way I’m partially disagreeing with #1 as well) go unrecognized in the least.

#3:
Zergs are a big part of WvW, they are a big part of any large scale conflict, but I wouldn’t say or agree that the game has degenerated into just that. I don’t consider the 20 something people of HB that I usually run with a zerg, yet they will readily run into and fight said much larger zergs and shatter them. When big guilds fight big guilds, I don’t see this as ZvZ, I see this as coordinated teams vs. one another. There are videos of guilds and teams holding off stupidly uneven numbers with proper and coordinated team play, using choke points, using flanks. This is not zerg combat, this is tactical combat.

I can’t really say more than that and nothing will ever really change that people like numbers, and they feel safe in numbers even if its an uncoordinated mess. This is human nature: the more people around you, the less likely you are of getting hurt or killed. Uncapping AoE isn’t going to help this, its just going to make AoE spam all the more dominant (you can’t even get near a door during a siege before the fifty billion fireballs, swirls, and doom booms, turn you into pudding in three seconds flat) and I don’t see why 5 people should win against 30 if all they do is AoE spam just because AoE has no upper cap (can you imagine how stupid this would be with current gen thieves? They just stealth into a group and AoE daggerstorm everyone to death because they can). 5 people winning against 30 with good play (which people accomplish, though perhaps the disparity is not quite as large as 6:1) is what I want to see.

Wee, that was long.

There are many things that need fixing, addressing, and doing, but I don’t think WvW is as broken as you make it out to be (I stand by my regular statement that I make on our BG forums that the core of WvW is good, it just needs loving and the onus of this is on the devs… also I greatly agree with other who say that we need to organize a SotG or AMA at the very least, light a fire under their kitten so to speak) nor is it unsavable. Your image of what it might need to be may not be the reality of what we achieve but that is usually par for the course; we all have grand ideas that we think are what serve everyone best but we oft skirt the issue that opinions vary and our own are not the only ones.

Sureshot.6725:

Scilly.9315:

Sureshot.6725:

Who is ‘we’? Is that a french mouse in your pocket?

Game is still new and I’m sure they will develop and add things over time. There is no substitute for the WvW we have now so I’m thankful to have it and look forward to more in the future.

your correct on one thing, there is no open world pvp game that does not allow you to see your enemy during a fight, or hit all the enemy attacking you.. both reasons why its a flop… you should check out some real open world pvp games.. it might broaden your attitude towards this game

- They do not require a subscription
- Do not feature a continuous gear grind where gear is king and skill/build is second.
- Does not require macro/3rd party utilities to be competitive.

Oh, I didn’t know we were talking about Guild Wars 1.

To whoever was talking about it, I am willing to bet that most of us consistently playing WvW came from “real” open-world PvP games and of the few I can think of off the top of my head, I (and I’m sure many others) find this form of it more enjoyable. We now have reasons to kill people and the strategy for staying alive in this game is a bit more than “get out of the fire.”

stereoblind.4736:

I know I’m about to be the bad guy forum poster here but the game has only been out for six months. They probably had no idea that WvW would be as popular as it is now and lettuce be cereal, we would not be posting in this section of the forum all the time if we didn’t want changes/implementations made to WvW cause admittedly, it is my favorite part of the game and it’s pretty great. Things do need to change, and being able to buy commander with gold was not only a bad idea but it shouldn’t have been a “feature” in the first place. I do agree with a majority of what you said but the commander icon acquisition is one of the things that bothers me the most.

Now with all that said, give them some time. I’m sure there are some major changes and quality of life improvements in the pipeline for WvW but development and testing does take some time to implement (I feel like things might be easier with a PTR type of thing, even if having perma-access wasn’t free, I’d pay 400-500 gems to be a PTR tester). Things will get better for us hardcore WvW’ers, just need to give them constructive ideas and such to go along with.

the culling issue has been in the game since release… they have had 6 months to fix it!

Im not bashing because you made a very valid post, but your a little foolish to think the beta testers didnt pick them up on these points prior to release.

1 person for 6 months working on the culling issue is alot of man hours, no considering its a HUGE fail not seeing your enemy you would imagine a team of atleast 5 working on that… thats a hell of alot of man hours and should of been fixed by now. My guess is they cant fix it and they are hoping people stop playing to make it fix it self.. but even that isnt working

The Spiral King.2483:

Sureshot.6725:

- They do not require a subscription
- Do not feature a continuous gear grind where gear is king and skill/build is second.
- Does not require macro/3rd party utilities to be competitive.

Oh, I didn’t know we were talking about Guild Wars 1.

Or Guild Wars 2…

… Mostly. They just need to add that silly pink gear to WvW where it belongs.

Scilly.9315:

the culling issue has been in the game since release… they have had 6 months to fix it!

1 person for 6 months working on the culling issue is alot of man hours, no considering its a HUGE fail not seeing your enemy you would imagine a team of atleast 5 working on that… thats a hell of alot of man hours and should of been fixed by now. My guess is they cant fix it and they are hoping people stop playing to make it fix it self.. but even that isnt working

The culling issue is at the very core of their engine optimization (ie. there is none because this game was rather clearly forced out by the higher ups to appease sales, and if you don’t believe me, follow the NCSoft earnings to before and after GW2 release). They need more than one guy to fix this and hopefully the new staff will go a long way in helping to fix it.

I’d wager that there’s also a lot of programming guess work going into their optimization attempts as they need to still have the game function on toasters.

Scilly.9315:

stereoblind.4736:

I know I’m about to be the bad guy forum poster here but the game has only been out for six months. They probably had no idea that WvW would be as popular as it is now and lettuce be cereal, we would not be posting in this section of the forum all the time if we didn’t want changes/implementations made to WvW cause admittedly, it is my favorite part of the game and it’s pretty great. Things do need to change, and being able to buy commander with gold was not only a bad idea but it shouldn’t have been a “feature” in the first place. I do agree with a majority of what you said but the commander icon acquisition is one of the things that bothers me the most.

Now with all that said, give them some time. I’m sure there are some major changes and quality of life improvements in the pipeline for WvW but development and testing does take some time to implement (I feel like things might be easier with a PTR type of thing, even if having perma-access wasn’t free, I’d pay 400-500 gems to be a PTR tester). Things will get better for us hardcore WvW’ers, just need to give them constructive ideas and such to go along with.

the culling issue has been in the game since release… they have had 6 months to fix it!

Im not bashing because you made a very valid post, but your a little foolish to think the beta testers didnt pick them up on these points prior to release.

1 person for 6 months working on the culling issue is alot of man hours, no considering its a HUGE fail not seeing your enemy you would imagine a team of atleast 5 working on that… thats a hell of alot of man hours and should of been fixed by now. My guess is they cant fix it and they are hoping people stop playing to make it fix it self.. but even that isnt working

I probably should’ve stated that I’ve only played this game since mid-December and I’ve only been reading/posting on the forums since a few weeks ago. The underlying message in my post was just to give it some time. There’s enough threads out there filled to the brim with complaints and such and it’d take a fool to think that Anet doesn’t realize there’s some serious problems that need to be looked at, however I know culling is definitely a problem but I have no idea if it’s always been this bad or whatever. I’ve only experienced it a few times which is probably what the problem is honestly. haha

Sureshot.6725:

Scilly.9315:

Sureshot.6725:

Who is ‘we’? Is that a french mouse in your pocket?

Game is still new and I’m sure they will develop and add things over time. There is no substitute for the WvW we have now so I’m thankful to have it and look forward to more in the future.

your correct on one thing, there is no open world pvp game that does not allow you to see your enemy during a fight, or hit all the enemy attacking you.. both reasons why its a flop… you should check out some real open world pvp games.. it might broaden your attitude towards this game

Weird are we playing the same game? I don’t have issues hitting players unless I’m out of range, blinded or they dodge which are game mechanics.

Anyway I’m up for considering other MMOs with open world PvP as long the following apply.

- They do not require a subscription
- Do not feature a continuous gear grind where gear is king and skill/build is second.
- Does not require macro/3rd party utilities to be competitive.

I’d love to hear of one that meets those simple requirements. I’d even be willing to waive the subscription requirement.

DAOC requires a sub, and once you get geared you dont need to regrind it… you dont need a macro to win. Its also skill based and your aoe attacks will actually hit everyone within the aoe.

My point was you hit a limited amount in guild wars so a group of 5 would only hit 25 people out of 50 in a zerg yet the zerg would hit all of us… that promotes zerging and thats what causes the culling issues..

stereoblind.4736:

Scilly.9315:

stereoblind.4736:

I know I’m about to be the bad guy forum poster here but the game has only been out for six months. They probably had no idea that WvW would be as popular as it is now and lettuce be cereal, we would not be posting in this section of the forum all the time if we didn’t want changes/implementations made to WvW cause admittedly, it is my favorite part of the game and it’s pretty great. Things do need to change, and being able to buy commander with gold was not only a bad idea but it shouldn’t have been a “feature” in the first place. I do agree with a majority of what you said but the commander icon acquisition is one of the things that bothers me the most.

Now with all that said, give them some time. I’m sure there are some major changes and quality of life improvements in the pipeline for WvW but development and testing does take some time to implement (I feel like things might be easier with a PTR type of thing, even if having perma-access wasn’t free, I’d pay 400-500 gems to be a PTR tester). Things will get better for us hardcore WvW’ers, just need to give them constructive ideas and such to go along with.

the culling issue has been in the game since release… they have had 6 months to fix it!

Im not bashing because you made a very valid post, but your a little foolish to think the beta testers didnt pick them up on these points prior to release.

1 person for 6 months working on the culling issue is alot of man hours, no considering its a HUGE fail not seeing your enemy you would imagine a team of atleast 5 working on that… thats a hell of alot of man hours and should of been fixed by now. My guess is they cant fix it and they are hoping people stop playing to make it fix it self.. but even that isnt working

I probably should’ve stated that I’ve only played this game since mid-December and I’ve only been reading/posting on the forums since a few weeks ago. The underlying message in my post was just to give it some time. There’s enough threads out there filled to the brim with complaints and such and it’d take a fool to think that Anet doesn’t realize there’s some serious problems that need to be looked at, however I know culling is definitely a problem but I have no idea if it’s always been this bad or whatever. I’ve only experienced it a few times which is probably what the problem is honestly. haha

these threads have been around since week one, have they listern? nope

Scilly.9315:

Sureshot.6725:

Scilly.9315:

Sureshot.6725:

Who is ‘we’? Is that a french mouse in your pocket?

Game is still new and I’m sure they will develop and add things over time. There is no substitute for the WvW we have now so I’m thankful to have it and look forward to more in the future.

your correct on one thing, there is no open world pvp game that does not allow you to see your enemy during a fight, or hit all the enemy attacking you.. both reasons why its a flop… you should check out some real open world pvp games.. it might broaden your attitude towards this game

Weird are we playing the same game? I don’t have issues hitting players unless I’m out of range, blinded or they dodge which are game mechanics.

Anyway I’m up for considering other MMOs with open world PvP as long the following apply.

- They do not require a subscription
- Do not feature a continuous gear grind where gear is king and skill/build is second.
- Does not require macro/3rd party utilities to be competitive.

I’d love to hear of one that meets those simple requirements. I’d even be willing to waive the subscription requirement.

DAOC requires a sub, and once you get geared you dont need to regrind it… you dont need a macro to win. Its also skill based and your aoe attacks will actually hit everyone within the aoe.

My point was you hit a limited amount in guild wars so a group of 5 would only hit 25 people out of 50 in a zerg yet the zerg would hit all of us… that promotes zerging and thats what causes the culling issues..

You got me. I enjoyed DAoC back in the day until they added the ability grind that is RR, so I left for Shadowbane.

I’m done with continuous grinds of any kind =)

I’m not saying this game doesn’t have its flaws but I’m willing to be patient for improvements and having a blast as it is now. I’d probably be less patient if I was paying a subscription. I know I can take a break from this game and come back without being left far behind because of level/rank ability/gear grinds.

Edit: As for zerging there was plenty in DAoC as well. Also the last thing I want is for WvW to be AoE centric so I support the caps strongly. I don’t have a problem avoiding zergs and still having fun.

I run solo, I run with small groups and sometimes I join the zerg. Zerging is choice that most make because it involves less risk and thoughtful play. However, some times I want largescale fighting so I choose to join the zerg.

Culling is an annoying but hardly game breaking in terms of enjoying the game.

Sureshot.6725:

Scilly.9315:

Sureshot.6725:

Scilly.9315:

Sureshot.6725:

Who is ‘we’? Is that a french mouse in your pocket?

Game is still new and I’m sure they will develop and add things over time. There is no substitute for the WvW we have now so I’m thankful to have it and look forward to more in the future.

your correct on one thing, there is no open world pvp game that does not allow you to see your enemy during a fight, or hit all the enemy attacking you.. both reasons why its a flop… you should check out some real open world pvp games.. it might broaden your attitude towards this game

Weird are we playing the same game? I don’t have issues hitting players unless I’m out of range, blinded or they dodge which are game mechanics.

Anyway I’m up for considering other MMOs with open world PvP as long the following apply.

- They do not require a subscription
- Do not feature a continuous gear grind where gear is king and skill/build is second.
- Does not require macro/3rd party utilities to be competitive.

I’d love to hear of one that meets those simple requirements. I’d even be willing to waive the subscription requirement.

DAOC requires a sub, and once you get geared you dont need to regrind it… you dont need a macro to win. Its also skill based and your aoe attacks will actually hit everyone within the aoe.

My point was you hit a limited amount in guild wars so a group of 5 would only hit 25 people out of 50 in a zerg yet the zerg would hit all of us… that promotes zerging and thats what causes the culling issues..

You got me. I enjoyed DAoC back in the day until they added the ability grind that is RR, so I left for Shadowbane.

I’m done with continuous grinds of any kind =)

I’m not saying this game doesn’t have its flaws but I’m willing to be patient for improvements and having a blast as it is now. I’d probably be less patient if I was paying a subscription. I know I can take a break from this game and come back without being left far behind because of level/rank ability/gear grinds.

good for you mate, WvW was fun untill the was nothing to login for.. why bother loading up to not see your enemy and not have a chance agaisnt greater numbers? anets downfall is promoting a ZvZ and that whats casuing the majority of the wvw issues.. Anyway im off from these forums for another 2-3 months till i check back again.. but fingers xrossed i get into TESO better or camelot unchained starts its beta. <3 to all Opvp players xx

Can’t even deny it, I am looking forward to TESO very much. But if you’re having problems with culling and it’s truly keeping you from playing this game, why don’t you come to one of the less populated servers like Ferguson’s Crossing or Eredon Terrace? I’ve really only seen an issue with culling three times in particular while fighting for ET.

stereoblind.4736:

Can’t even deny it, I am looking forward to TESO very much. But if you’re having problems with culling and it’s truly keeping you from playing this game, why don’t you come to one of the less populated servers like Ferguson’s Crossing or Eredon Terrace? I’ve really only seen an issue with culling three times in particular while fighting for ET.

Maybe ill patch and look.. but on release culling was a issue on every server even with free xfers always open… the numbers you see in Wvw now are nothing to what they were at release some servers had 5 hour que times and you could bypass the ques by constant walking in and out the the gates ( another exploit probly not fixed)

I loved wvw, used to play it for hours and hours, until i realized.. there was no point, no recognition, very little reward and really not much strategy other then. we have 50 people you only have 20 you lose. I -really- hope i get into TESO beta. Not that im sure it will be better, but at least itll be new and shiny, and not old and neglected.

Some of us are still having some fun in WvW, but it really has been a let down.

Little to no rewards or loot, and huge repair and upgrade costs; it’s a sure way to bankruptcy. If this was a business model investors would be jumping ship with what little left they still had!

Yes there is a patch next month, but it should have been this month! Add the fact that they brought back the culling everyone hated and posted about how bad it was; but they somehow took that as “positive” feedback. So we’re stuck with this culling which makes the gameplay worse for 67% of people.

Bugs and glitches are still there, the few that they have fixed, I’ve heard have reactivated old bugs.

And as for PvE, after getting to the last story mission at Arah, I ended up leveling 5 other level 80s in WvW. I finally decided to complete the story mission on my first character, and what can I say: “Is that it? Well that was kitten” Yes I literally said that re-replacing kitten of course; the final mission was a complete letdown and after seeing that I am glad I leveled those other characters in WvW instead of PvE!

agree with all your points

Churchill.8714:

Just because you want to have a personal metric of reward that goes against the specific metric the OP was discussing, doesn’t give you a valid complaint.

You’re just disagreeing to disagree.

My opinion is just as much an opinion as is the OP’s. I am pretty sure we are even in the validity of our opinions.

Of course, if you rather don’t want to hear that there are people who are actually enjoying the game and who do not think everything is fubar, I can just shut up.

~MRA

Eclipses.7152:

1. Commander is an absolute mess
2. The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking
3. WvW has devolved into ZvZ (ZergvZerg)
4. The lack of Rewards/Progression/Depth/Consequence
5. The devs, their implementation of and lack of commitment to Wvw

1. Welcome to war. Most generals are picked by politics or money. Few are picked from within the ranks. Besides a good fighter often makes a poor commander. After a week or so, players tend to find the good commanders anyway.

2. “Guild Wars” is from lore and not in game guilds. That said, guilds are rewarded for points which can be spent on upgrades. I am also sure over time the devs will build out this system a lot more.

3. Depends on the tier. T4+ has mob fights but not really zergs. Sometimes population imbalances herd people into those mobs so they can find fights but I get plenty of small skirmish action after leaving T3. Besides a lot of people actually enjoy zerg fights (not me).

4. Not sure what people are looking for here. I get to kill other players and take objectives. I get badges, karma, xp, etc. I think they will improve the system over time though.

5. Game isn’t even close to a year old yet and it shipped with a pretty amazing WvWvW system. Does it have problems, absolutely but they already said they have a big patch in the works and will continue to improve the system.

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

Little to no rewards or loot, and huge repair and upgrade costs; it’s a sure way to bankruptcy. If this was a business model investors would be jumping ship with what little left they still had!

To me that’s actually the biggest issue of WvW right now. It ties into what the OP said about (the lack of) WvW rewards, but it’s really worth pointing it out. I don’t even die in WvW all that much, but since the loot is so abysmal in WvW, I am not gaining any wealth worth mentioning either. If you look at it from an opportunity cost angle, one hour of PvE would yield me 2-5 gold at least, while playing an hour of WvW will require me being lucky not to -lose- any money in the process. In terms of reward, WvW is really the red-headed stepchild of GW2, for PvE is so much more profitable that it’s not even funny. The very least ANet would have to do is making badges drop a lot, LOT more frequently and add a number of nice things to actually buy with them other than Exotic armour (which I dare saying most halfway serious WvWers bought even before they started WvW in the first place). Getting shiny things to pimp our characters with has always been a central aspect of MMOs – why WvWers are basically left out of the game’s reward system is beyond me.

Zerg vs Zerg is the best part of WvW. In current day Tier1 it has in many cases become more of a Guild vs Guild. Zerg 1 mostly of one guild and some randoms vs Zerg 2 mostly of another guild and some randoms. May the best and most organized team win. 30-40 vs 30-40 when both sides are organized and running special builds and class synergies for large scale combat make WvW what it is now. It’s amazing and I really would love to see a Structured version of this put into the game. We can call it GvG even, I think this was done in another game before but I can’t be sure.

I think that the OP states some valid points here and even though I don’t agree 100% with everything that’s listed, there are definitely great talking points here that I would love to hear addressed by the devs.

I’ve been running WvW from day one on the same server: more hours solo than I care to admit, with small groups, small guilds, and now with one of the best guilds on my server. There are too many things that haven’t been addressed in WvW, too many things that seem to have been thrown in as a half kitten measure, and quite a bit that just seems broken at the moment.

I think the biggest point that I agree with is #2: “The roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds in a game called ‘Guild Wars’ is lacking”.

Whether you’re talking about WvW, sPvP, or PvE, I think that the roles/rewards/recognition of Guilds should be a center piece and a huge focus of every aspect of this game. As stated by the OP, “…the game is called Guild Wars…” and I think that being able to see (list? ladder?) the strongest guilds on your server for WvW, sPvP, and PvE would be an extremely motivational addition to the game as a whole.

Being able to see how your guild stands up to the other guilds, or tying to increase your guild ranking on the list/ladder, would be motivation for guilds to come together and do more events as a guild, and in turn push people to do more and be better — especially if there are rewards/benefits to being #1, or in the top 3.

I would love to see how many supply camps, towers, and keeps that my guild takes; to see how how many kills we’ve racked up as a guild; to see how many dungeons we’ve completed or how many quests/events were done; to see how many sPvP matches guildies have won — and then compare our accomplishments with the other guilds on our own server. The top 3 guilds (or whatever) gaining a bonus for the week, and the top #1 guild getting something extra-special, so that every guild is always working to try and be #1.

I’m sure that this is something that everyone would love to get behind and to see. ;-)