Guild Wars 2

What is the reasoning behind WvW not having the same equal gear as spvp?

I realise you get scaled to 80, but let’s be honest: it doesn’t make you as strong as an 80, not by far.

Not only because of traits, but also because of gear.

I was rather surprised to find that gear mattered in WvWvW, since I consider it to be a form of pvp.
Even if it has tons of pve, it still is basically a pvp format.

Why am I forced to level and gear to 80 to do this form of pvp, and not for spvp?

So why should the gear matter?
Bit odd for GW2 pvp…

This is an old question of course, but it suddenly became more relevant with the ascendent gear of course.

To avoid all issues with either levels or any gear, I think the logical solution would be to equalise gear and traits like in spvp.
Why isn’t this the case?

What am I missing that warrants this imbalance?

WvWvW is an inter-server war, where you bring everything you made so far into battle. What’d be the point of scaling everything flat?
Levelling everything flat is boring. And I say that as someone who has yet to reach lev 80.

Servers could bring skill, and maybe numbers…
Not really necessary to include ‘gear’ in that equation.

I understand your argument, but it’s not even that the servers bring their ‘pve’ values in terms of gear and gold and levels… It’s not the raiders bringing it, it’s the WvWvW guilds bringing all of that.

WvW guilds tend to be pvp guilds more than pveraiding guilds.
So that keeps the question: if it’s pvp played by moslty pvp guilds and players… than why not equalise?

WvW would not be any more, or less, boring because of scaled gear.
I don’t see the logic in that.

Spvp is sometimes called boring, but never because of the gear…

I think it is fine. I wish they would remove the up arrow that highlights your low level, but otherwise I do not have a problem on any of my alts. I play differently, far more defensive, more zerg surfer, then I would at 80.

Niim.9260:

I think it is fine. I wish they would remove the up arrow that highlights your low level, but otherwise I do not have a problem on any of my alts. I play differently, far more defensive, more zerg surfer, then I would at 80.

that’s what I do in practice too.
Play more defensive on a lower level, because in a fight you are very unlikley to kill anyone. Not without your traits and in that gear…

But that basically means that this form of pvp isn’t balanced at all.
It is all about gear, even when the numbers are more or less equal.

Of course as a whole WvW is about numbers first, and if the numbers match up more or less, it starts about being organised.

But in smaller fights I always wonder how this form of pvp can be so much about gear and level.
It feels like it’s a step down from their intentions in spvp.
So that puzzles me yes.

Much has to do with the fact that I find WvW too zergy, and I prefer the smaller skirmishes.
To do that you need to level up first, unless you have a group that is willing to ‘carry’ you of course.

????
It’s absolutely NOT about gear.
The only reason you cannot compete with true 80’s who know what they are doing(my lev 50 guardian frequently frags 80’s) is that you don’t have that many trait points yet.
You could run around with a lev 80 char in full fine/masterwork armor and it wouldn’t matter much, except for some very close fights, you could duke it out with other 80’s without having to worry much about gear cause, honestly… The difference is not THAT big.
A naked char with full traits could kill a char with full exotics/Ascended and no points in traits(theoretical construct) any time. Go figure. The big impact comes from the traits for sure.

naphack.9346:

????
It’s absolutely NOT about gear.
The only reason you cannot compete with true 80’s who know what they are doing(my lev 50 guardian frequently frags 80’s) is that you don’t have that many trait points yet.
You could run around with a lev 80 char in full fine/masterwork armor and it wouldn’t matter much, except for some very close fights, you could duke it out with other 80’s without having to worry much about gear cause, honestly… The difference is not THAT big.
A naked char with full traits could kill a char with full exotics/Ascended and no points in traits(theoretical construct) any time. Go figure. The big impact comes from the traits for sure.

I realise it’s mostly the lack of traits.
But are you sure the gear doesn’t matter?

I was under the impression that the scaling didn’t negate gear differences that much.
Also: if gear isn’t a big difference, than why are people concerned over ascended gear in WvW?

Again: not talking about zerg fights, where basically only numbers matter.

Because the bonuses of WvW directly affects PvE. All those points you capture go towards PvE boosts. If you want your server to be better equipped, get your game on.

There is no excuse tbh, the difference between rare to exotics is easily made up with skill. The only draw back to having a low lvl in WvW is the traits and possibly the skills that haven’t been unlocked.

I’ve played a lvl 15 Engineers and totally destroyed a lvl 60+ ranger. My lvl 1 Thief does well against lvl 80 elementalists and mesmers (sneaky fker

there is a equipment gap for sure. But nothing a little skill cant fix.

Because! Speaking from a low level, nothing is more satisfying than messing with the heads of max level characters. Being max level would be boring if the journey through the war never happened. Being a recruit (low level) and rising in ranks (leveling) makes it all worthwhile. You go in, learn as you go, learn skills, tricks, etc. You just don’t go into war being a lieutenant.

This is all my own opinion.

I have been a big supporter of this suggestion from the start. I don’t think it’s ever going to happen though. Arenanet doesn’t see WvWvW as ‘true PvP’. More of a mix between PvE and PvP. That’s why balance changes for PvP don’t apply to WvW.

Sinfullysweet.4517:

Because! Speaking from a low level, nothing is more satisfying than messing with the heads of max level characters. Being max level would be boring if the journey through the war never happened. Being a recruit (low level) and rising in ranks (leveling) makes it all worthwhile. You go in, learn as you go, learn skills, tricks, etc. You just don’t go into war being a lieutenant.

This is all my own opinion.

Fun point of view at least

I can relate to that, don’t get me wrong.

is great way is set up , but yep whne ques an waiting around , i think 80s should have priority when going into WVW and also now understandin people with multiple accounts, going to other servers an takin space with theyre alt account to make a less person available, best option now would to let 80s first in WvW , an minimize that tactic

They should do it like sPvP, especially in light of this new gear treadmill. But I don’t think they ever will because that raider mentality they seem to want to attract now is a mentality that demands stat advantage over those who don’t grind dungeons.

Kimbald.2697:

But that basically means that this form of pvp isn’t balanced at all.
It is all about gear, even when the numbers are more or less equal.

WvW is officially described (and has been since pre-launch) as an unbalanced war game in terms of both numbers and power (gear+level).

Corvindi.5734:

They should do it like sPvP, especially in light of this new gear treadmill. But I don’t think they ever will because that raider mentality they seem to want to attract now is a mentality that demands stat advantage over those who don’t grind dungeons.

You clearly do not understand what a gear treadmill is (hint: it isn’t a single half-tier upgrade on the only new rarity they’ve planned to add). Gear from now on will be upgraded through infusions which will only directly affect PvE. And again, WvW isn’t intended to be balanced.

the more posts like this i see, the more i believe people think the insanely short amount of time it takes to hit level 80 needs to be even shorter.
gear will never be scaled here, sorry. WvW is why you PvE. unless you want all the instance exotics for show only?(game’s called guild wars people get with the program)

If I see posts about leveling, there always comes a crowd of defenders saying how we should level slower, enjoy the ride, explore more, rush less, gear is only cosmetic, stop complaining about end game.

If I look at posts about WvW I see the opposite being said by defenders: level fast, rush to 80, gear up, WvW is end game so don’t expect something unless you work for it…

Maybe that’s why I would like it to follow pvp gear rules, instead of pve.
It tends to go directly opposite to what the idea for pve in this game should be…

I have a low lvl guardian and most of the time i can’t win a 1v1 battle against a lvl80 geared person. So i just play support with my guardian to help the group or zerg.

War simulations aren’t about fairness. Lets keep it that way.

It’s completely obvious why PVE and WvW are tied together. ANet wants to attract not only PVPers to join but also casual PVPers and PVErs. It is mass PVP after all, and not small scale like sPVP so filling the maps with numbers is important. You want it to be a pure PVP format, but it’s not, and it’s not intended to be.

Honestly, gear is the least of your problems. I funded the majority of my exotics through gold accumulation entirely through WvW.

As someone who WVWs with several classes of varying levels (20-80) I can say that gear makes very little difference its the traits. Does gear make an impact? yes very rarely you may have a smaller scale fight where your gear was just enough to get you out on top, buts it rare. But in the middle of a mass battle it comes down to numbers, strategy and siege.

I havent read all posts so someone might’ve made the same argument.

WvW is not as competitive as sPvP, you can consider it casual pvp, or pvp/pve hybrid, it also has waaaaaaaaaaay too many variables to be balanced like sPvP.

Why? Ultimately WvW depends on numbers+coverage for most….your individual skills do not matter much. Being skilled and outnumbered might win you a battle or two, but you wont win the war. Servers who win either have better coverage or higher numbers, it’s only competitive in servers that are full and have 24/7 coverage which as far as I know is only the top 2 servers. So, point is, WvW shouldnt be balanced like sPvP. Now it wouldn’t hurt if a PART of WvW was balanced like sPvP (for example an additional battleground that is an arena, which has requirements to enter, and gear reflects sPvP gear)

Also I honestly like the idea of “bringing what you have so far” to the war. Personally with every MMO I played I was turn between perfectly balance PvP (gear and level wise) and “bringing what you got”. GW2 gave us both options! If you want competitively balanced PvP don’t delude yourself and go play sPvP. WvW is not supposed to be heavily competitive, otherwise EB would be symmetrical, teams would not be allowed to let more people in where a server could have more than 10% bonus/defect in numbers (and if that happens due to people logging out, extras get kicked) commander icons would have serious requirements other than the ones listed, and best of all…the top guilds should determine who is allowed to come to WvW and who isn’t since in a competitive game you should be allowed to chose your team.

The of variables list goes on and on and on…so why pick on something like gear and level? because it’s the most obvious thing? Personally I like it, I like killing those lowbies, and I also like killing level 80s with my lowbies if I want an even match I go player a tournament.

Kimbald.2697:

What is the reasoning behind WvW not having the same equal gear as spvp?

WvWvW is called “World” PvP, it pretends to be a substitute of PvP Worlds of other games. I think this is the background of wanting to make WvWvW to depend on PvE, however, what happens actually is that WvWvW is not self-sufficient and players have to go to the PvE World to get Skill Points, to get Armor (Karma armor is faster to get than Badgets armor) and may be from now on WvWvW’s players may have to do compulsory dungeons to get Ascended armor.

What am I missing that warrants this imbalance?

I share your view, you miss nothing. Nevertheless, it is not just an imbalance it is a lack of fairness against newbies and a lack of awareness that nothing can be a substitute of a PvP World, WvWvW is better to be considered a huge battle ground.

KensaiZen.3740:

War simulations aren’t about fairness. Lets keep it that way.

One may not want to play a war simulation. Were I wanting that I would have not chosen a fantasy game like Guild Wars is.* When I play WvWvW I am looking to play an e-sport and sport is all about fairplay. There may be imbalances, however, as long as those imbalances were shared by newbies and experts alike it would be fair.

*Actually I do not believe in war, and I see no need to simulate it. However, I like chess and in chess there is some imbalance as the side that starts -white side- has some edge over the second -black side, this is why in a tournament players change sides, to make it to be fair for both.

E-sport side of GW2 is Spvp and TPvP. If your in WvW for E-sport, your in the wrong place.

You have sPvP and tPvP which are balanced. PvE which is all about about openness, then you have WvW which is in between. Take your pick.

Like most have stated, WvW was never intended to be balanced. It is a war simulation where armies fight to control resources and capture bases. This is the essence of WvW. WvW is PvP with open variables with added objectives.

Honestly, I have no idea what you people think WvW is supposed to be. Its like eating an orange and expecting it to taste like a apple.

Kimbald.2697:

If I look at posts about WvW I see the opposite being said by defenders: level fast, rush to 80, gear up, WvW is end game so don’t expect something unless you work for it…

Maybe that’s why I would like it to follow pvp gear rules, instead of pve.
It tends to go directly opposite to what the idea for pve in this game should be…

If you can get to 30, have most of your slot skills good to go, some ‘decent’ gear you should be fine if you hang out with people who know what they’re doing on a community VOIP of some sort (most established servers have one for wvw). Yes, you will die… its pvp, don’t do it if you cant take a joke once in a while.

Aside from that, there is a lot of karma and xp to be gained, cash is not great, repairs and siege can be expensive so don’t over-spend if you can help it, always carry supply. There is something a learning curve as well, I’ve been playing for 100s of hours in WvW and discovered 2 new things today which I’d not seen done before, quite a lot of it comes down to not just what you can achieve but also realistically what your group can do and where.

stop it with this WvW is not meant to be balanced BS. The war itself isn’t but class mechanics can’t just be left broken

By all due respect .. it seems to me, like “none of you, or ONLY few” actually experienced low lvl players used & placed properly .. get a lvl 4 supply camp. Provide 3x ballistas & one 80lvl to keep an eye on them .. go and watch from a hill a mindless “wanna be” zerg comming in ..
(UW server vs. Germans – Orchard ) wiped unterrly “a zerg” .. two times in a row .. afterwards that “zerg decided” to go bashing their heads against a towers gate. Nuked them with two ArrowCarts & Mortar. Didn´t see them for another 30min.
Stop whinning & learn the game mechanics. Maybe one beautiful day you start actually playing this game, not only walking around & poking stuff.

ive lvled my char from 2 to 80 only in wvw, and i can tell u that both gear and traits matter, but like others said gear matters less than traits since they open alot of doors for your build.

its better to have a full set of exotics but its not a must, wvw has a gold sink therefor gear progression is a part of it but its not a bad thing, its still a sense of accomplishment getting all your gear and advancing towards something, just hope they’ll add more wvw stuff and rewards since they kinda lame atm (gear and such)

also ANET add horses !!!! lemme ride a black stallion to battle, make it super expensive or whatever but gimme horses !! or war elephants :P

Yeah .. and Hannibal shall go over Alps on Rome! Hell yeah!

Thanks for the input all, I appreciate all arguments given. Both those few agreeing and the many not agreeing with me

Think most is said by now, but don’t let that stop you if you would want to add something more.