Guild Wars 2

What is the goal fo WvWvW? To PvP and have fun.

This goal is utterly unmet in today’s WvWvW, which seems designed from the ground up to create the most unfun, lopsided nonsense I’ve ever seen.

There are no good matches in WvW

Every score I look at, one server is absolutely stomping the others. By ridiculous, absurd margins. Like, 4x as many points as the next closest server. Entire servers just give up on that aspect of the game because they just get rolled all the time.

Your matchmaking system is a total, complete, utter failure. Even two months after launch. Why? The foolish decision to allow all these server transfers. They completely break your model.

You should never, ever, have decided to start week long matchups while still allowing server transfers. And you should NEVER have allowed people to transfer from a less populated server to a more populated one. Anyone could have told you that would lead to relentless bandwagoning on the ‘winning’ server, and that is exactly what is happening.

Blackgate received a ton of transfers and is massacring their supposedly evenly matched opponents. Sea of Sorrows received a ton of transfers and is massacring their supposedly evenly matched opponents. Sanctum of Rall received a ton of transfers and is massacring their supposedly evenly matched opponents. Do you see a trend yet?

This is completely ruining WvW. People whose focus is WvW are just quitting your game and going off to play XCOM or Borderlands 2 and saying things like “Maybe I’ll be back once all the bullkitten is fixed”.

Victory in WvW is entirely non skill based

If you have more people you win, simple as that. This is due to the 5 player aoe cap mechanic, the downed/rezzing mechanic, and most importantly, player vs door. It’s extremely hard for a smaller force to win against a larger, thanks to rezzing, and it’s utterly impossible for a smaller server to win against a larger, because all that matters is how many people you have when the other server has gone to sleep. They can run around taking everything without opposition.

In the current state of WvW, victory is entirely, 100% determined by geographic coverage. That’s it. It doesn’t matter if you win all the fights, the enemy can just come along and take everything when you are asleep – and rack up huge points. Until you find some way to make the points gained in WvW related to skill, at least peripherally, many people are going to regard the whole thing as a huge joke.

WvW seems designed up to encourage snowballing and discourage the ‘losing’ servers

The way you present information to players is all wrong. You emphasis the total points, which is just a marker of who has more people awake at night, as indicated above, and bears zero relationship to which server is actually ‘winning’. When people see the points are incredibly far ahead – they feel discouraged and stop coming out.

You need to not show this information at all, or else prioritize the current score over the total score. The total score simply records what has happened in the past, the current score of ppt shows what is happening right now.

The orb bonuses are a terrible, terrible idea. That’s the #1 thing that seems to discourage people on the losing server from coming out: not only are you losing in score and outnumbered, but, man for man, the side with MORE PEOPLE is better than you thanks to the orb buffs! Far from tilting the playing field towards the people who are struggling, you stack the deck in favor the people who have already won. That’s part of what makes every battle so ridiculously lopsided – after an initial advantage, the other two servers just give up. You see this everywhere in just about every matchup. Late come from behind wins are an absolute rarity (and are usually due to server transfers)

This is such a horrendously bad idea. You should swap the orb and outmanned bonuses, or something like that. It wouldn’t hurt to reduce the repair fees of the outmanned side as well. The absolute epidemic of hacks leading to single hackers grabbing the orbs multiple times during a match up also doesn’t help matter.

I had such high hopes for WvWvW, as I loved the RvR in DAOC. It has mostly been a debacle, in every respect. From player culling, to all players going invisible, to rampant unrestrained hacking, to absurdly imbalanced matchups, it’s been a disaster. Far from being the most engaging and fun part of the game, it’s a huge turn off to vast swathes of players. You know you’ve failed when people prefer farming karma in Orr to actually playing WvW.

We haven’t had a good matchup yet. We went from roflstomping two servers that were clearly not in the right bracket, to being roflstomped because of mid match transfers, to winning because we were up against a server who wasn’t in our time zone and we played the player vs door game better than they did, to getting roflstomped because of, again, transfers and a huge population imbalance. Not one of these matches was engaging or fun.

WvW is dying. Entire servers are dying. You need to wake up and do something about it.

Well there is lot of problems, but i have had lot’s of fun. Some awesome fights and stuff.

a+ thread would read again

I still have a lot of fun in WvW, both when we’re winning and when we’re losing.

So it’s not a failure for me

Agree with the OP 100%. And now with the latest hacks going on, combined with ArenaNet’s proven inability to do anything about them, it’s not even remotely entertaining. Trying to take map points like supply camps with players using the perma-stealthed hacks and ONE hacking player preventing FIFTY people from taking one camp just saps any desire to continue to support this developer.

in WvW is it against the rules to transfer servers to try and sabotage the other servers resources to try and win because in crystal desert we had people doing this to us from IOJ.

Then report the players.

There are many threads about this issue already.

Hard to truly judge the WvW balancing as free server transfers COMPLETELY skew the ranking system. Take Blackgate for example.. they were ranked according to the previous weeks battles. Some of the main PvP guilds from Henge flocked to blackgate as well as some of the bandwagon jumpers who followed them. Suddenly Blackgate was flooded with organized experienced PvP guilds and players and absolutely annihilated both the other servers. Free transfers totally borked that match up…

It also borked our match up on Jade Quarry. Henge was one of the toughest servers we’ve played since release. Since the Titan Alliance on henge broke up and migrated to blackgate and other servers, we’ve basically only been fighting Stormbluff this last week. I was doing WvW last night and and saw TWO henge players in 3 hours. This was the same server that handed it to us previously.

Some of the points you made are valid, but while massive groups of players are free to jump to different servers each week there doesn’t seem to be any point in making changes.

i didn’t know could you show them to me?

If it was a “complete, total, comprehensive failure” then no-one would be playing. It may not be perfect but its hardly what you claim it to be.

Also, score is not the deciding factor for fun. There are plenty of people posting on these forums about how they have fun regardless of the scoreboard. There are also a number of people asking for the scoreboard to be removed. Sure the fairweather players don’t have fun when they are losing but these are not the type of people you should be basing game design around.

I’m still having fun. Because of WvW, I still haven’t gotten more than 53% map completion, I still haven’t even bothered with dungeons or sPvP. When everyone else runs out of themepark content WvW will still be kicking, it may lose those that only care about winning and never play when they lose, but the core Wuvvers that play for a good fight will always be there.

There is a search tool on the forum. I would link them but I am posting from a mobile device and it would take you less time to use the search tool.

Yeah!! This sucks! All 140 levels I have done in WvW totally sucked! The threeway battles on Yaks Bend all week long last week really sucked! Especially the threeway in the keep lords room that lasted over an hour! Man that sucked. There is no potential in this game as it is.

Maybe we should all be pandas and dance!?

I wouldn’t call it a complete failure. It really is an excellent concept, and during a good match-up is one of the most fun and entertaining parts of the game. It just needs a lot of tweaking, and the dev’s have said on Redit that they’re trying hard to improve it’s current state.

Vorpal.4683:

What is the goal fo WvWvW? To PvP and have fun.

This goal is utterly unmet in today’s WvWvW, which seems designed from the ground up to create the most unfun, lopsided nonsense I’ve ever seen.

There are no good matches in WvW

Every score I look at, one server is absolutely stomping the others. By ridiculous, absurd margins. Like, 4x as many points as the next closest server. Entire servers just give up on that aspect of the game because they just get rolled all the time.

Your matchmaking system is a total, complete, utter failure. Even two months after launch. Why? The foolish decision to allow all these server transfers. They completely break your model.

You should never, ever, have decided to start week long matchups while still allowing server transfers. And you should NEVER have allowed people to transfer from a less populated server to a more populated one. Anyone could have told you that would lead to relentless bandwagoning on the ‘winning’ server, and that is exactly what is happening.

Blackgate received a ton of transfers and is massacring their supposedly evenly matched opponents. Sea of Sorrows received a ton of transfers and is massacring their supposedly evenly matched opponents. Sanctum of Rall received a ton of transfers and is massacring their supposedly evenly matched opponents. Do you see a trend yet?

This is completely ruining WvW. People whose focus is WvW are just quitting your game and going off to play XCOM or Borderlands 2 and saying things like “Maybe I’ll be back once all the bullkitten is fixed”.

Victory in WvW is entirely non skill based

If you have more people you win, simple as that. This is due to the 5 player aoe cap mechanic, the downed/rezzing mechanic, and most importantly, player vs door. It’s extremely hard for a smaller force to win against a larger, thanks to rezzing, and it’s utterly impossible for a smaller server to win against a larger, because all that matters is how many people you have when the other server has gone to sleep. They can run around taking everything without opposition.

In the current state of WvW, victory is entirely, 100% determined by geographic coverage. That’s it. It doesn’t matter if you win all the fights, the enemy can just come along and take everything when you are asleep – and rack up huge points. Until you find some way to make the points gained in WvW related to skill, at least peripherally, many people are going to regard the whole thing as a huge joke.

WvW seems designed up to encourage snowballing and discourage the ‘losing’ servers

The way you present information to players is all wrong. You emphasis the total points, which is just a marker of who has more people awake at night, as indicated above, and bears zero relationship to which server is actually ‘winning’. When people see the points are incredibly far ahead – they feel discouraged and stop coming out.

You need to not show this information at all, or else prioritize the current score over the total score. The total score simply records what has happened in the past, the current score of ppt shows what is happening right now.

The orb bonuses are a terrible, terrible idea. That’s the #1 thing that seems to discourage people on the losing server from coming out: not only are you losing in score and outnumbered, but, man for man, the side with MORE PEOPLE is better than you thanks to the orb buffs! Far from tilting the playing field towards the people who are struggling, you stack the deck in favor the people who have already won. That’s part of what makes every battle so ridiculously lopsided – after an initial advantage, the other two servers just give up. You see this everywhere in just about every matchup. Late come from behind wins are an absolute rarity (and are usually due to server transfers)

This is such a horrendously bad idea. You should swap the orb and outmanned bonuses, or something like that. It wouldn’t hurt to reduce the repair fees of the outmanned side as well. The absolute epidemic of hacks leading to single hackers grabbing the orbs multiple times during a match up also doesn’t help matter.

QFT. What was hailed as the next great pvp game has totally let people down. Blame it on hype or developer stupidity. With no real endgame outside of pvp they need to take care of business quickly. At least that’s my opinion which probably doesn’t amount to much. I’m only a single customer myself.

The OP is right about the scoring mechanism being borked. Needs to have intervals calculated by relative numbers on players online on the opposing servers.

As it stands, US based servers with large Asian based populations will just about always pull ahead as they will have little competition dominating the map just after US peak hours and can mostly hold the map until the next US peak time with little opposition. Meaning, assuming 8 hours of peak time for each zone, Asian populations will score higher for 2/3’s of the day.

The other thing is it is no fun being against the zerg during low pop times. Map caps need to take into account the numbers of players on the opposing sides that are on the map. Shouldn’t be able to have more players than both other servers (combined) do on the map at any one time.

I am having so much fun in WvW. This game has a great fundamental design in my opinion and is the best designed WvW I have seen since DAOC. There are issues but nothing that can’t be resolved.

All MMO’s have taken time to ‘perfect’ and get to a great place and from everything I have seen they will prefect this one over time.

Totally agree, its probably the worst pvp game Ive played to date. The fact they have allowed this stuff to happen for so long makes me worry about the future of the game.

i’d have to say you are stating some of the exact points a friend of mine and i were having tonight.. hope that they do something to make it play better in bg’s.. getting rolled sucks.. doesn’t matter to me if i am winning or losing but shouldn’t feel like 200 against 25 .. tonight on a consistent basis it i was a victim of or saw 1 guy take out like 4 guys… thats bs.. i enjoy the game more when the teams feel even matched and it’s a battle not a slaughter..

Nothing to grind for makes it a failure.

Brunners.7251:

I still have a lot of fun in WvW

Elthurien.8356:

I’m still having fun.

Interesting how all “having fun” posts come from servers who are winning current matches and got tons of server transfers.

The problem with MMO’s nowdays is people do have the patience to wait around for devs to fix stuff.

Warhammer literally fell apart in 3 months..once a game is deemed a failure, its done, people simply dont come back.

I hope they fix WvW before its too late and the next big thing comes up, because people move on.

granted the game still needs work, but please speak for yourselves, not everyone feels the same. you must not be hanging with the right people if you aren’t having fun at all. the other night i must have spent almost a gold in repairs …I had a blast. – the next day all our property was gone, i gave the aragon speech from lord of the rings …and kept charging in and dying – it rubbed off on everyone and not only did we get our property back ….we almost took the whole map as well within a few hours ……so with all respect …Man up :p the game can be upgraded ….but the attitude some people have needs way more work than the game.

100% agree with the OP. Hope Anet wakes up and realizes how people are starting to feel.

I’m on a winning server and i am not having fun.
it was fun when the servers still tried during the early part of the week, basicly till tuesday. then since tuesday night its just been crap. the other two servers dont have enough people coming on because it is seriously pointless for them. and when they do come on all they do is zerg to point after point, rarely defending. most the time 90% of them are on one map so the other three are dead as kitten.
i love the idea of WvW and i’d love for it to grow, but to release something as hyped as WvW and to only have ONE armor/weapon set was a mistake. To change the badge drop rate was a mistake. to put in the orbs was a mistake. lots and lots of mistakes
and in all honesty I dont think Anet was ready for this. The imbalances, the rendering issues, the mass amount of people who only WvW (myself included), it just seems like it overwhelmed them.
I hope they actually read these forums and take some of our advice. i’ve gotten and have talked to people who have also gotten the Private Messages saying our posts have been deleted because we were offering “constructive discussion” or were "calling out/making demands’ of Anet. I’m trying to help this game succeed, take the good with the bad guys. 90% of the people i’ve started this game with have quit because of your mistakes, its time to own up and make some changes to save the population you still have

Invisible enemies is the reason none of my friends are still playing. Its ok to lose but when you cant even play the game its time to move on

I play it but its got some huge issues. Really cant take it as serious PVP when you cant see your enemies most battles. Free Xfers are slowly killing it too.

Lots of these posts remind me of the posts SWOTOR had early on, fell on deaf ears, like here.

I hope they fix this stuff as the concept is good but yea… they really dropped the ball on things and seem very slow to react.

i love it. there’s going to be no real way to do wvwvw without having some servers hotter than others. no way to have balanced numbers. and you know what? i don’t care. when i’m losing, i don’t care. i’m not playing for the scoreboard. i’m playing for the pvp, and if you enjoy it, it can be terrific fun to actually explore those “tactics” you say aren’t in the game.

it doesn’t have to be all zerg if you’ve got a good idea for something. a lot of people are quite happy to do something out of the box. the other day we built a treb in a rather open area against a keep which was heavily defended and we were outnumbered. we had to build it inside a cavern, slightly around a bend to avoid getting thwacked by their treb. their defenders were forced to leave the safety of their walls and arrowcarts and come into range of our arrowcarts built to defend the treb. we were outmanned. outgunned. and eventually outplayed. but the half an hour of defending that treb which was gradually bleeding their supply as they kept repairing the wall was exciting. we knew we’d lose the fight there. but we wanted to suck their supply. that was enough of a victory.

take the little things. you get out of wvwvw what you put into it, in my opinion. most of the gripes i see are the gripes of people who don’t do much wvwvw i think. because i don’t have the same problem on the scale that’s being shrieked about. other than the hacking (which i’ve never seen happen), any issues are pretty minor. show me a game with no niggling balancing issues, or wacky quirks which require learning a whole new metagame, and i’ll show you a boring 3d shooter.

for the most part, it’s been fun and often exciting.

a lot of the complaints seem to be from the kind of people that might go to a motorhead concert to sit in a chair at the back and complain they can’t see anything for all the people headbanging in front of them. they’d go tot he security and start demanding security start telling people to sit down so they can enjoy the tunes.

get up. rock. you might enjoy yourself.

Yeah lets all quit and head back to WoW…

I’m having fun DAoC was fun and if you said it had even population then you are lying to yourself. If you are saying the server who totally dominates is having fun then transfer to that server and then tell me how fun that is for you.

Knee Jerk reaction to an issue like this is what causes games to fail. IF you don’t like it, then cancel your subscriptions… oh wait.

Go poke your head into the Darkhaven/NSP/Ebay thread and ask people there if they feel like wvwvw is a failure. The general consensus in that thread is that it’s still tons of fun. And that’s coming from the two servers that aren’t winning.

Speak for yourself and yourself only. You can in no way speak for the entire population of the game. Thanks.

P.S. A lot of the issues affecting wv3 will be ironed out eventually. People just like over reacting and being drama kittens.

It’s the best attempt so far at displacing DAOC RVR for the world PVP crown but I agree it falls short on numerous levels, the main ones being:
1) downed state, the stupidest MMO mechanic ever – the side with more people ultimately wins, every time.
2) orbs are too quick to take – most WVW players don’t even know it’s happening. In DAOC, it took roughly a week just to get to the point of opening the relic gates, then 2hrs or so to get the relic, and game-wide message were issued when a relic was taken — relics were actually fought for. In WVW, it can be all over in <1hr, and most people don’t even know they lost an orb until after the other side already has it.
3) there’s zero downside/cost/impact to owning 90%+ of the map – supply scales too linearly with empire size.
4) outmanned buff is a signal to the losing team that it’s time to go PVE farm, not retake objectives – the complete opposite of its intended effect.

Dware.4259:

The problem with MMO’s nowdays is people do have the patience to wait around for devs to fix stuff.

That is where communication comes in. The problem is other than player culling, they don’t seem to have even acknowledged other issues. Which leaves us completely in the dark as to what may or may not even be changed. That’s not a good thing.

About the only thing I’ve read is they told us to give the matchmaking system time to balance out, which obviously isn’t happening with rampant server transfers. For my server, everything the OP says is correct. We either get stomped or drop a tier and plow the opposition. Close fights are only over the weekend, which is a shame.

As of 10 minutes ago, Borlis Pass had one keep, one tower, and two supply camps. Our garrison (with no supplies or upgrades) was hit on 3 different doors within 5 minutes of each other, with one attack breaking through the outer door. I was having the time of my life defending that ragged kittenpile. Will Sorrow’s get it? Yep. But did I have fun throwing them back 3 times and busting a golem before they could finish building it? Yessir.

Every score I look at, one server is absolutely stomping the others. By ridiculous, absurd margins. Like, 4x as many points as the next closest server. Entire servers just give up on that aspect of the game because they just get rolled all the time.
Your matchmaking system is a total, complete, utter failure. Even two months after launch. Why? The foolish decision to allow all these server transfers. They completely break your model.
You should never, ever, have decided to start week long matchups while still allowing server transfers. And you should NEVER have allowed people to transfer from a less populated server to a more populated one. Anyone could have told you that would lead to relentless bandwagoning on the ‘winning’ server, and that is exactly what is happening.

While you think that WvW has had no close matches, there have been some. SBI/ET/HoD, SoR/YB/NSP, and so on. Of course not all matches will be close, however it does happen. (I only listed 6 servers who have had a close match, due to being on 2 of them through the fights.)

In addition WvWvW is a 3 way match, allowing 2 servers to work to take down 1.
I do however think Anet should implement a way for cross server communication to allow 2 smaller/weaker servers to work together more efficiently.

As for server transfer’s, they are fine, but need 1 simple tweak.
The tweak is making members of a server unable to transfer to a server they are matched against.

Victory in WvW is entirely non skill based
If you have more people you win, simple as that.

Well in some cases numbers play a factor but if set up properly, you can completely decimate another servers zerg with less people, using choke points and siege properly. Then again it takes communication between players, and somewhat comprehensive people.

In the current state of WvW, victory is entirely, 100% determined by geographic coverage.
Many servers have reached out to get 24 hour coverage. It was known in advance WvW wouldnt be a 12hour fight, but a 24 hour one. This allows for people who work different shifts and different hours throughout a day in all regions to be able to play WvW.

You emphasis the total points, which is just a marker of who has more people awake at night, as indicated above, and bears zero relationship to which server is actually ‘winning’. When people see the points are incredibly far ahead – they feel discouraged and stop coming out.
You need to not show this information at all, or else prioritize the current score over the total score. The total score simply records what has happened in the past, the current score of ppt shows what is happening right now.

It is up to a servers community to keep its moral up. I’ve been on a server which was constantly being dominated, however we kept moral up, and fought the never ending battle. In reality people need to relax, and realize “winning” is not everything however having fun is. I’ve also seen servers who while they are down and losing, they have poeple leave WvW and call others from PvE maps in to help. (In reality that can change the course of a battle, however I doubt many servers do that.)

Also, for people who are dedicated to WvW weather the scores are winning or losing, they go in and fight, as long as they have fellow players to fight along side.

So I don’t see how it’s the fault of showing the score unless you’re speaking about casual players who log in, press b, and join only if winning. In reality most server’s want people who will fight win or lose, not only if winning.

The orb bonuses are a terrible, terrible idea. You should swap the orb and outmanned bonuses, or something like that.

I do think Orb bonuses, and the outmanned buff’s should be swapped.

As for hackers, it happens in all games. Though it’s a community who can benifit, or deny the hackers which make a difference.

A good example was YB. They had someone hack the orbs, each time YB would let the server whose orb was hacked, retake the orb without any/little resistance.

I have been having a great time in WvW, and I play on Tarnished Coast which just got seriously clobbered by Blackgate. Granted it was more fun the week before when we were on the winning side, but still, I have been leveling completely in WvW because even losing it is more fun than pve.

Speaking of leveling…
and thiefs…
I stink at pvp…I am an old man using an ergonomic mouse and keyboard.
I leveled a thief to 7 (so I could weaponswap, not really necessary tho) then went WvWing with him.
It is embarrassing how easy it is killing people as a thief in WvW, even with no traits, only one utility slot, and blue gear.
If you think thieves aren’t broken…try it.

And another thing…
That ridiculous glitch that allows a practically perma-stealthed thief to stop a supply depot cap is infuriating and has got to be fixed asap…WvWers that were fine with losing as long as they got goods fights started logging out because of it.

And one last thing…
HEY! You kids…get offa my lawn!

I agree, WvW has been terrible. <3 this thread

To all of those jumping to Jade Quarry I ask, “wow, do you hate video games or something?”

The main problem for me is – WvW is not sustainable. The 24/7 concept kills itself, as it require immense efforts and participation from all people, and all people eventually burn out of it after forced to fight everyday, all their free time to keep their servers competitive. Taking a brake is “betrayal”.

At this moment, my server, that was one of the most competitive servers in EU and beat most of enemies in prime time, even if not having night coverage to compete at top ranks, simply burned out – doing wvw for two month straight, with all the associated bullkitten and issues, is simply tiring and people lack motivation and seek excuses to do something else.

I myself, considering going Darkfall, since i simply see no point in continue the “work” that is WvW as its less and less fun, and already like half of people quit and participation on most servers noticeably dropped.

Already now i see a very big stream of players leaving GW2, and no patch will fix it as the issues are fundamental.

i’d be happy enough just to have a statement acknowledging whether or not they view these issues as problems to be solved or acceptable side effects of their system.

i’d be thrilled to hear, assuming they actually consider many WvW issues as problems, that they are at least working towards solutions.

I wouldn’t trust them if they said they’re working on it/it’s a priority.
I’d be happier to hear them say something like “We’re not going to fix it, shut up”.

It’s not a complete failure at all.
Swtor’s ilum pvp was though, because almost everyone stopped playing it. This hasn’t happened to WvW yet.

+1

I pretty much play this game solely for the WvW now and lately I’ve been logging in less and less mainly due to the problems described here

Having fun WvW,, main reason i play. Still there are many fine posts on how to improve WvW. Looking foward to the fixes that are needed. Looking forward to many fine new changes in the future.

EVERYTHING designed and implemented in GW2 PvP only promotes zero-skill zerging and nothing else.

From the ridiculously stupid downed mechanic to having zero death penalty and everything in between, it is no wonder WvW is in such a horrendous state.

Weeks of WvW scores should have adjusted rankings in a way that pitted similarly-matched servers, and that would have happened – if it wasn’t for free transfers. It’s bad enough that people can’t WvW for one week because a bunch of people transfered on to the winning team and started a snowball effect (JQ, IOJ, BG, SOS, SOR this week), but the sudden transfers make the rankings pointless. So now, servers don’t get one week of horridly one sided matches, but it then becomes two or even three weeks of pointless matches while the rankings adjust. And what is to say that people won’t transfer servers again? This just makes rankings a load of bull every single week and every match sucks. Look at the projected matches for next week, BG vs HoD/ET, SoS vs CD/TC? As far as I’m concerned, WvW isn’t 24/7, it’s basically the first 15-24 hours after reset, after that the winner is whoever has more people on.

Now, if a bunch of us complaining are actually idiots and the real reason to WvW is to max out the World vs World bonuses for your server, then golly Arenanet is doing an awesome job, keep it up. Yay 20% chance to gather better ingredients; prefer that over a good fight when I choose to log in to WvW. /sarcasm off

This week isn’t a good indication of how things will play out generally. WvW has been a blast on any server with a good community. The foundations are solid (but with some much needed tweaks) and thus the main onus on making the game fun is the community. If WVW is work or not fun then you need to try changing your playstyle to be more like the people who are enjoying it. Anyone who played DAoC for years will tell you the same thing – don’t make a second job for yourself, don’t fight the game, and build a positive community both between teammates and your opponents.

I’ve gotten ~500 hours of PvP fun for 60$. There’s no sub, and there’s no pay-to-win, WvW is great fun. Not saying its perfect, just saying I’m not paying 15$ a month while waiting for fixes so I’m perfectly happy to wait for them.

I used to play WvW about 4 hours a day everyday because I could log in at any moment and have great fun. Now? Transferring issues and zerging has gotten so out of hand that WvW is basically unplayable. I log in and see we’re outnumbered and own 2 supply camps, so I log out. Coming from a standpoint where WvW used to be fun no matter what time you logged in, now it’s become a situation where you have to be at the right place at the right time, otherwise WvW is a ghost town; yet they insist on WvW being persistent 24/7. Next week is looking to be the same because we’re playing a server that also had a lot of new transfers last week. zzz

I gave it til tonight. WvW is a disaster. Instead of giving the out numbered server a lame “buff” give them increased badge drops. Problems solved. Servers that outnumber their opponents get decreased or ZERO badges on kills.

Stomping a zerg 2-3x your zerg’s size can be quite fun, problem usually is that the bigger zerg wins since that zerg can revive their idiots that die and maintain “zerg” status even with siege hitting them. I know people hate running back and I do too but there’s no way to stop the snowballing zerg effect.

Stopping the advantages huge numbers give and halving match times would be the BEST way to deter people from wagon jumping. At least, that’s the feeling I get, I like servers with better communication more than ones that rely on “where’s the zerg?”.