Guild Wars 2

Stats offer less defense against condis means, you can go full zerk and still counter condis with traits/skills. One of the reasons why glassy condi/hybrid builds (viper/sinister) are much harder to play on many classes than zerk builds. Same or even less defense than zerk, less dmg because of condi remove (and sometimes because the condi variant of a class generally deals less dmg), more dmg from counter builds …

People should really start looking at specific builds/traits/skills instead of moaning about condis in general. But yea, i get it, better completely delete a certain playstyle just because YOU don’t like it …

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Stats offer less defense against condis means, you can go full zerk and still counter condis with traits/skills. One of the reasons why glassy condi/hybrid builds (viper/sinister) are much harder to play on many classes than zerk builds. Same or even less defense than zerk, less dmg because of condi remove (and sometimes because the condi variant of a class generally deals less dmg), more dmg from counter builds …
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So you don’t have access to the same skills as a zerker when you go condi? well ok then, anet should look into that.

It is not about access. Some condi builds have to give up defensive traits or skills for enough dmg on a glass build. Ranger or thief for example. Without traps or venoms they deal much less dmg than their power variants. Even with those utilities those condi builds have weaker dmg/burst and the only way to compensate this is using defensive gear.

Condi builds doesn’t only lose less dmg by using defensive gear, they gain less by going offensive.

Well, I had to give up damage skills for condi defense.

You can still hit me for 10k backstabs
Condi d/d thief can’t.

One of the reasons why i have to give up condi defense for power defense. Well not only because of you of course, but i think you get what i want to say. There is always something to give up. And that’s fine. Imo there should be even more trade-offs. Some builds are to close to being good at everything. But that’s a general balance issue and not a condi-only issue.

Tried to stack bleeding with death blossom? I bet it does equal damage. Also condi D/D is still a hybrid set.
Your argumentation as to why condi builds are less powerful is just very poor, sorry.
And a lot in this game is currently completely messed up, so it’s hard to tell what exactly makes builds/classes OP. Condi is really nasty though, no matter whether it’s a pure condi, hybrid or even power build. And I’d be in favour of rune of perplexity being removed from the game entirely.

Stacking bleeds takes time. Time which i won’t give the thief.

And i didn’t said, condi builds are less powerful in general. I said, they are not better in general, that’s not the same. And i said, they are often (not always) more dependent on defensive stats than power builds.

Let’s stick to the d/d thief example:

I might be wrong because i don’t play thief, but I’m pretty sure a full zerk d/d thief is better than a full viper or sinister d/d thief (hybrid gear so theoretically it should fit the weapons pretty well – for power there are better weapon sets). Both variants are full glass and can be easily killed. However the zerk thief has much better burst and can oneshot or at least force defensive cooldowns much faster than the condi thief, which gives him a better chance to win a fight. (If you want to argue that the condi thief has better defense because death blossom is an evade just compare it to a zerk staff thief instead).
If we compare a soldier and a dire thief, then the condi one might be better though.

It is similar for other classes as well. I tried to make a sinister ranger work (loved my old hybrid trapper), but it is simply so much weaker than a power build or tanky condi build, it is not fun anymore. And because condi bunker isn’t that great and becomes boring pretty fast i play power.

Some things to do with condis are just broken as hell, i mean come on venom shares? It’s pretty much a gg moment like being moa’d. 8 seconds of immobilise buried under every condi in the game so your condi cleanse that cures 2 condis cures the kittening vuln and weakness you have on you leaving you standing there getting rekt for the venom duration. When that kitten gets epidemic’d from a coni reaper its gg.

There is not enough incidental condi clear on skills/traits for the condi spam in WvW and access to resistance is virtually non existent outside warrior/rev. Surely save yourselves should of had 5 seconds of resistance added to it.

I dont think there would need to be too many sweeping changes to bring them in line in WvW, just some tweaks here and there. Some of the issues are class based, Condi reapers(lol) and chronophantasma condi mesmers.

The application comes way too fast for classes even with cleanses to deal with. Sure you are going to sustain and clear the first burst of condis, but not the 2nd or 3rd.

Condis should of had a 2nd stat requirement like precision, your condi dmg tick is low unless you crit whilst applying the condi kind of deal. And the condi foods should have been like 10% duration, throw some extra stats on them, and have a bunch of foods for specific condis, 20% for specific condi. 40% across the board everyone knew was busted as kitten.

Chill didnt need to do dmg, Confusion didnt need to do dmg per tick. These were all PvE changes that made it into WvW.

Condis should still definitely be a playstyle alternative to power/prec/ferocity

Shala.8352:

So after this kinda of preface, i’ll let go the fun/healty side of the condition combat, andlet show you my point of wiew about condi in wvw and his respective balance issues:

FIRST PROBLEM, some pve stats combination are really overpowered, especialy when they include condition damage on them as a main stat. For example dire and Trailblazer are totaly unbalanced set of stats, thats the reason they are not even appearing in pvp, but unfortunately we actualy have them in wvw.

SECOND PROBLEM, as someone already mentioned, anet balance team seems to have forgot after buffing condition dmg to buff the cleanse capacity of each class, resulting in very high unbalance issue. In a way that no matter how many condi cleanse you have, the spamm of them too high in comparison, it’s like Anet lost the control on this.

THIRD PROBLEM, condition removal capacity differently from the possibles counters to berserker/power build, are not balanced between classes, this means while a berserker build can be countered by ANY class by just tank up, or by learning to dodge the single burst the opponent class have, with condition damage instead there are some class that have literaly really bad bad access to condi cleanser, thusly differently from countering power build, sometime you have to literaly upset your build in order to chose cleansing trait/utility to face condi. To me, having cleanser to be mandatory is the DEATH of BUILD DIVERSITY wich is afflicting this game. As i said a couple of thousand times, condition should just be a kinda of side dmg in support of power dmg for the kiting classes.

FOURTH PROBLEM: maybe many of you are not updated about gvg scene, but actualy the meta is some sort of condi/hibrid based. The reason is always the same, much more easy to coordinate a condi burst that accumulate even in a not perfectly syncronized group burst than playing simply power builds. Also, you force the opponent to change their offensive build in a more sort of preserved cleanser hybrid.

FIFTH PROBLEM: in a blob fight, immobilize or chill can be much more deadly and devastating than in pvp or a single 1v1, since if you get immobilized, you will recieve the damage of 30+ people wich often can result in a instant death. So, in blobs condi removal are needed to avoid soft CC. But what happens if the blob is condi based, you will have to waste your condi cleanse even for the condi dmg, wich result a fast death in the consecutive immobilize. I dont understand why people keep saying condi are not good in blob fights, there’s so much aoe/opponents/dmg to evade to watch out, that if you even have to waste your attention to condi dmg, i don’t see any fun on the fight.

SIXTH PROBLEM, and this is the big one that some dumbyy condi lover doesnt seems to get: differently from power based dmg, that can be counter by a single stat (toghness) or nicely timed evades, condition damage HAS to be cleansed. This means, you have to waste seconds of cast time during an entire duel to cast a cleanse skill. This often result in the fact that to counter conditions, you have less offensive initiative than when facing power builds.

I hope to find people in this forum that can help me making anet realize what they are doing to this game. Gw2 had and still have an amazing combat sistem, plz anet dont ruin this amazing games with bad decision and unfun mechanics.
I understand that this is a noob friendly game, but even a noob can have more fun if the game is more skill oriented. And to me, condition damage is the ANTISKILL side of the game.

Ty for reading, hope some developer will read this too, cuz it’s not only my idea, but the idea of my entire wvw guild, and of all of my friends that like to play hardcore.

Excellent post, ever since the June 23rd 2015 patch combat has changed for the worse, and then the expansion hit and the new specs made the problems even worse.

You’ve hit a lot of the main reasons for the down fall, dire set should have never been introduced to wvw, and now that celestial set is out of spvp maybe both those sets should be removed from the game. I mean if it’s not in spvp the main pvp area, why is it still in wvw the secondary pvp area to fight? Oh right because they refuse to split gears/stats from pve like they did for spvp.

They buffed conditions and added even more conditions to deal with, but didn’t do so for cleanses which again isn’t equally given to every class. Then they added resistance but it’s attached to barely used skills or talents it might as well not be in the game.

This is the main reason why I’m on a break from the game on top of all the wvw issues.

dubstax.9102:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

dubstax.9102:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Reaper’s need some adjusting. Deathly Chill still needs to be nerfed again IMO (and that is a class specific nerf not a blanket nerf to all conditions) among other things.

I’m just curious why out of everything you pick “Deathly Chill” as needing another scale back. Why? Chill by itself is a rather easy condi to cleanse and I never notice (on players) the damage to be any worse than lets say burn. Another nerf to the damage of that trait and you will basically make it useless.

Because of the uptime. Have you fought a Burn Guard? They can keep Burning on you almost constantly. They apply it with nearly everything they do and it’s quite difficult to keep it off of you. Your best bet is to just save cleanses for when they try to Burn stack you and tank the smaller stacks because you won’t cleanse them all. The reason that’s okay is because Guards don’t have access to a ton of other cover conditions.

Reaper on the other hand, with enough condition damage, Chill can do upwards of 1k per tick and can be re-applied with just about any skill/trait. It’s the same idea as Burn Guard, you won’t cleanse it all and it has extremely high uptime. The difference is that Reaper has a ton of other cover conditions which means you’re only option is to not even let the Reaper hit you in the first place.

Either the access to Chill needs to be reduced or the damage needs to be reduced. We can’t have such easy access to a highly damaging condition when we have easy access to a ton of other conditions as well.

I’m not saying I want the trait to be useless. As someone who has been a condition Necromancer for over 2 years, I was really hyped when I heard about Deathly Chill. But IMHO… It is absolutely OP. Some people might disagree with that opinion but I just think that it has too much going for it (cover conditions, high damage, easy application, strong effects – movement reduced, cooldowns increased).

I can understand some of your points. I do think that 800-1K damage is situational in World vs. World. I think it depends heavily on gear stat allocation. I personally have not gone above 650 – 700 damage from “Deathly Chill” on a player. However, I run in all exotics minus one dire + rabid amulet with a karmic infusion. I don’t think that the majority of condi reapers in World vs. World are able to pull off 1K damage ticks from DC. Also, unlike burn which you mentioned chill only stacks in duration not damage and chill can be rather easy to cleanse. I just don’t feel that DC is in need of any more adjustment downwards in damage.

A condi Mesmer can do WAY more damage than that. 25 stacks of confusion will destroy all of your HP when you use one skill. Torment is not even as bad as confusion. There is no way to cleanse, because as soon as you do, you are dead.

Shala.8352:

Now this is very important, because the counter question is: why you want condition damage to be at the same level of power damage, instead of beeing just a side effect for the kiting classes? Why you just don’t go power build then if in fact condition dmg will be the same as power dmg?*
The answer is really simple: you want something that helps you concentrate more on defense, while still beeing able to do high dmg, and that ignores defensive stats and force opponent to change his build and adapt to your.
In a few words: you want condition dmg to be high to eliminate the possible counterplay from the opponent, you want to be CARRIED by condition dmg.

I don’t pve. I don’t spvp. I only solo roam in WvW on a core Mesmer. No Chrono, core. There are no power builds for core Mesmer anymore. The summer patch and the pay2win HoT elites saw to that.

Condition is nowhere near as fun to play as the old Power Phantasm, but it’s kitten sure more fun than auto-dying to every clown spamming traps or chill.

X T D.6458:

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

Then again, it’s the only way to counter Boon stacking right now.

Well the counter to boon stacking is boon removal/conversion, but I understand your point, in a strategic sense it can be. Boons themselves are in an unbalanced state as well, but they at least have some limitations. You can only stack a boon to a certain point from a limited number of sources. With condis, you can basically keep stacking and spamming, some are limited to 25, but others go to 1500 I believe..lol…

Boons can be OP, depending on build and group (small/large) comp though, due to Boon Share and Duration buffs, that’s the state of balance in meta though, even when Condis can be pretty broken, especially in 1v1s.