Guild Wars 2

How do you feel about the rate of leveling in wvw ranks?

I personally would like these were acquired faster, since some upgrades need a lot of perk points like the supply carry one (20 points for 1 more supply). Or at least they could give more points as you are a higher rank like after 10 you get 2 points per rank etc.
I think i can get a rank in 5 hours of active playing. Getting to carry only one more supply will take me 100 hours and thats about more than a month of playing for me, as i play about 3 hours a day. This is not a so casual friendly system and i feel i will never get this far.

Also if you want to max it to carry 20 supply thats about 2 years (it’s (300 rank points* 5 hours a rank)/3 hours a day=500 days) of work and meanwhile new games will come out and people will abandon gw2 for newer ones. Maybe the most of us will never see his/her character carry 20 supply (for exapmple, don’t focus on the supply upgrade because others are not so different).

I suggest what i said up here, give more points as you get after a certain rank or give us more ways of aquiring points to upgrade our characters or a lot of these upgrades will never see life.

This system is made as a longterm motivation to play. They want that you play a lot and for a long time to get everything.

Thank you for your constructive answer (the question was btw: How do you feel about the rate of leveling in wvw ranks?). I understand that it’s a long term achievement, but it’s so long that most of the system will get designed for nothing as a lot of the actual wvwers will never get to it, even if they actively play the game. And i remember that this game was designed for casual players.

It’s too slow, especially considering it’s character-bound and offers no respecs.

I think rank will come faster as more and more activities reward rank. Also, wxp is based on opponent’s rank, so as the mass gets higher rank, newbies will get increased wxp gain automatically.

Furthermore, I believe respec books and global wxp are needed. No one is going to let 20 spare points lie there for supply r2. At the least, allowing them to be put in another line in the meanwhile would be the honest choice.

The ranks are meaningless anyway, so i don’t care about them.

The problem is that the fastest way of gaining ranks is to join a zerg in a high tier and run into another zerg of 80 people- depending on how many you manage to tag that’s almost a rank right there, certainly half a rank.

What it means is that many players in tiers 1 and 2 are well over the 100 rank mark (150+) and will benefit from the new chests whereas players from the lower tiers will be struggling to make one rank per day.

OP, I’d suggest you contact support and ask them to move you to a tier1 or tier2 server so you can achieve your ranks, and then move you back when you reach 100…

Or be like me and give up chasing ranks and just enjoy what your doing.

To marnick.4305

Nice idea the respec books, I actually have 2 points not allocated and they are really a waste there doing nothing. And no, the wxp aren’t based on opponent’s rank but on the time the opponent has been alive (like enemies in pve). Also this error leads to another nice suggestion, give more exp (other than those 60 wxp max) based on the difference of ranks. These are in my opinion both improvements that will help players get better in wvw (respec will add more strategy while the wxp extra for battling a skilled opponent will lead to build perfectioning).

marnick.4305:

I think rank will come faster as more and more activities reward rank. Also, wxp is based on opponent’s rank, so as the mass gets higher rank, newbies will get increased wxp gain automatically.

WxP for killing an enemy is granted based upon the time that player was active on the map without being killed. So you can easily get 60 WxP for killing an invader while killing a knight could yield little to no WxP..

I don’t see any problem with this system. If we make it easier to get new ranks now if we are level 10 we would be level 20 and the level 100 will be 200. In month’s time we will all max at level 1000 (if there is a cap level). Then we will complain about something else.

Unless you are wiping zergs, I find that it is easier to get wxp from taking camps on the borderland and killing other havoc groups. Still it is possible to get more points from zerging but that requires you to be in one of the dominate zerg on the map. If you are defending you will not get as many wxp from being in active zerg or havoc group.

So you are happy with needing about a week for 5 ranks (if playing only wvw and i like playing all aspects of the game so for 5 ranks would take me 3-4 weeks) and higher upgrades cost 15-20 points not considering the supply carry that will never get reached with the actual system. That’s 3-4 weeks of not seeing any upgrade to your character (for me 3-4 months).

Think that the technology in 2 years (time to reach 5 more supplies) will bring us so astonishing games that gw2 will seem like pac man and you’ll see how this system is failing in it’s task (giving players the feel of progression that was missing in wvw).

Xehanort.4589:

Think that the technology in 2 years (time to reach 5 more supplies) will bring us so astonishing games that gw2 will seem like pac man and you’ll see how this system is failing in it’s task (giving players the feel of progression that was missing in wvw).

You do know that Guild Wars 1 is also still played? And that game is older than 2 years and had also a bunch of whiners complaining about the failing system.. True though, most of those whiners just left..

Yes but differently from gw1, this was so acclamated to be designed for casual gamers and this system is not casual friendly, it’s one of the most hardcorish systems i’ve ever seen. Makes me feel like playing wvw is pointless as i already know that i will never make it to the top, neither if i keep playing wvw only (and i like playing all the 3 game modes, especially pve, but for a pveer semi-wvwer i’d like to reach at least a 60% of the maximum rank at the point this game will complete it’s life cycle for me, but at this rate i won’t even reach the 40%. A good suggestion would be to equate the wvw max rank to the pvp rank 80, which i think I’ll be able to reach in the long term even if i play pvp a lot less than other game modes)

I’d like to see how this 28th patch will change the wxp earning rate, because right now it’s a bigger effort than getting to rank 80 in pvp.

Level up on WvW is just terrible.

I am with a lvl 16(60%), capped the ENTIRE eternal battleground with a big zerg (4 towers, 2 keeps and 2~4 camps) and I only go to lvl 18.

This problably like kill 10 bosses on pve(and more expensive) but I receive only kitten in my face.

- Less XP than pve
- kitten items(problably 1 green)
- Some kitten Karma
- Complete random Honor drop

When you get 65+ it’s more easy, the scale is just terrible for low level characters.

The ranking up is fast enough as it is,it depends on how you play and what youre doing in wvw,how many people you kill etc etc.The points needed to rank up doesn’t even go higher,it stays at 5k..honestly i think it’s pretty easy to rank up.Nearly rank 100 now,and not having played for about 2 weeks i would have been far over 100.
I think,if you only earn 5 ranks a week,youre playing it wrong.If you want to play just for wxp…a thing im not even doing or worrying much about,i just earn wxp along the way..In any case, just mindlessly follow the zerg around grants you the most wxp,if youre on a dominant server.

HeliaXDemoN.1208:

Level up on WvW is just terrible.

I am with a lvl 16(60%), capped the ENTIRE eternal battleground with a big zerg (4 towers, 2 keeps and 2~4 camps) and I only go to lvl 18.

This problably like kill 10 bosses on pve(and more expensive) but I receive only kitten in my face.

- Less XP than pve
- kitten items(problably 1 green)
- Some kitten Karma
- Complete random Honor drop

When you get 65+ it’s more easy, the scale is just terrible for low level characters.

Please note that OP was talking about WxP and not regular XP..
And it’s well known that if you’re eager for rewards (karma, items, …) WvW isn’t the place to be (at the moment)..

To Caedmon.6798

How much time do you play a day and every how much time do you get a rank on average? My time for a rank is about 5 hours (1k an hour counting around 10 camps/hour without zerging that i don’t like in wvw). I think they scaled the wxp earning rate on zergers and it doesn’t feel equally rewarding for camp raiders like me who also do an important part in the score.

Honestly ? i don’t pay much attention to how fast i rank up in how much time.Just at the end of the evening i take a look and noticed i ranked up quite a bit.Ill try to keep track on it tonight if im playing.But gaining 2 – 3 ranks in 1 – 2h is very possible.Mind you,i either command myself,or i am with the zerg.

I prefer it to lvlup slowly. I play only one character and I like the ability to upgrade my character (even if it’s marginal difference) wihtout end. The thing we need to remember is, it’s not like we have to max all perks – they are more about investing in things you like, specializing. The ability to get everything maxed is just a carrot for farmers/completionists/achievkittens like me

Then i’m looking forward for the patch, because as it is now, my playstile isn’t even remotely rewarding.

The only issue I see with wxp is that it rewards the zerger more than the roamer or havoc groups.

The wxp that is issued for killing someone should be split up with the amount of people that killed that person. So if you soloed a player you should be rewarded more wxp than if an entire zerg killed that one person. Right now they are awarded the same.

As far as leveling fast, I don’t have a problem with it, then again I pretty much only do wvw unless to finish a daily these days and I roam most of the time. Maybe its the server I am in, but if you are in a low tier server isn’t easier to flip camps towers and keeps since it is less likely to be defended?

Jeda.5209:

The only issue I see with wxp is that it rewards the zerger more than the roamer or havoc groups.

This.

WXP rate seems fine to me, but looks adjusted on a Karma (now WXP) Train Zerg playstyle.

How about 1 WXP for every time we hit someone with an arrow cart? <salivate>

Jeda.5209:

The only issue I see with wxp is that it rewards the zerger more than the roamer or havoc groups.

The wxp that is issued for killing someone should be split up with the amount of people that killed that person. So if you soloed a player you should be rewarded more wxp than if an entire zerg killed that one person. Right now they are awarded the same.

As far as leveling fast, I don’t have a problem with it, then again I pretty much only do wvw unless to finish a daily these days and I roam most of the time. Maybe its the server I am in, but if you are in a low tier server isn’t easier to flip camps towers and keeps since it is less likely to be defended?

I hate to say this, but they should have copied the DAOC system with how they distributed RPs. I know, I know…burn me at the stake now. Zergs get less, havoks get more.

Anyone calculated the ratio of WXP:EXP for capping camps, sentries etc as a formal karma train would do?

Like 2 character levels is worth 1.5 WXP levels.

I wish the higher tiered the objective, the more wxp it gives. Spending 3 hours laying siege to a T3 Hills/Bay should give WAY more exp then PvDooring them in the off hours. Fully upgraded camp gives more. The more it is upgraded, the more likely it is to be defended AND makes it a better target for enemies. Partially get rid of the “empty BL karma train”.

Thank DevonCarver for your reply, I’m looking forward for the new build. The rate of wvw leveling should be adjusted on a normal playstyle and not on the most profitable one like zerg vs zerg. I know well that in such a situation you could get half a rank in 10 minutes, but i also know that killing other players doesn’t make you win the match. In my opinion capturing points should award more points than player killing (i know now it’s 60 at best vs 75 but 75 is just too low for 1 camp while you could kill 10 players that give 30 wxp on average).

Xehanort.4589:

Thank DevonCarver for your reply, I’m looking forward for the new build. The rate of wvw leveling should be adjusted on a normal playstyle and not on the most profitable one like zerg vs zerg. I know well that in such a situation you could get half a rank in 10 minutes, but i also know that killing other players doesn’t make you win the match. In my opinion capturing points should award more points than player killing (i know now it’s 60 at best vs 75 but 75 is just too low for 1 camp while you could kill 10 players that give 30 wxp on average).

Let the circle PvDooring begin then.

I was glad to see that we finally get WXP when repairing walls/gates and for building siege. I facepalmed when I saw it was only one.

I’m all in for having it be longterm advantages to keep players involved, since lack of players is a major problem in WvW, but it comes to the point where you must be a WvW player only to obtain some of the ranks. I put maybe an hour or two in WvW a day, sometimes more, and sometimes none at all, but my highest rank is about 16 when I actively participate in just about everything there is to do in WvW when I enter it.

DevonCarver.5370:

We agree that the rate is simply too slow right now and the build next week will make some major adjustments to that. And we will continue to analyze the data after that and make more changes as necessary. In addition we will be continuing to find ways to reward players who are doing more than just running around and killing other players.

Do you have any plans so Wxp gain is not so heavily weighted to the upper tiers? Also before this system went live I alternated between all my characters in WvW, now I only play 1 and have no motivation to restart the incredible grind on my other chars. I would be a lot more excited to play more WvW if I could jump in on any of my chars and not feel like my progress was wasted.

DevonCarver.5370:

We agree that the rate is simply too slow right now and the build next week will make some major adjustments to that. And we will continue to analyze the data after that and make more changes as necessary. In addition we will be continuing to find ways to reward players who are doing more than just running around and killing other players.

You’re not actually rewarding players for running around and killing other players..

You’re rewarding people running around and tagging as many people as possible before they die to someone else.

I can kill tons of people all day long 1v1 and 1vsX, I can take multiple supply camps and kill multiple dolyaks….

However I can run around on my thief, and do nothing but fire Choking Gas at zergs and i’ll get far more WXP then the guy who was actually winning fights, taking camps ect ect…

DevonCarver.5370:

In addition we will be continuing to find ways to reward players who are doing more than just running around and killing other players.

So you want people to do more pve in wvw ?

You have to find ways to reward players who are running around killing other players.

WvW is supposed to be PvP not PvE … kill a player often give less wxp than a dolyak -.-’

DevonCarver.5370:

We agree that the rate is simply too slow right now and the build next week will make some major adjustments to that. And we will continue to analyze the data after that and make more changes as necessary. In addition we will be continuing to find ways to reward players who are doing more than just running around and killing other players.

Ack! well some people don’t seem to have a problem with WXP ranks, I have seen people up into the mid 100’s? already and I am nowhere near that.

can you take a check of the Average Rank given a sample and see if the ranks are actually to slow? some people seem to have figured out how to get a bunch of Wxp quickly. and they are not sharing :P

Daendur.2357:

DevonCarver.5370:

In addition we will be continuing to find ways to reward players who are doing more than just running around and killing other players.

So you want people to do more pve in wvw ?

You have to find ways to reward players who are running around killing other players.

WvW is supposed to be PvP not PvE … kill a player often give less wxp than a dolyak -.-’

WvW is not pvp, wvw is about conquering the map with military strategy, that’s why they need to reward more those players that take and defend objectives instead of those chasing enemy zergs. We need a total rebalance to make players being more focused on important things (you don’t win the match if you kill players as they don’t reward points).

Meeks.1079:

Do you have any plans so Wxp gain is not so heavily weighted to the upper tiers?

It would be nice if more WXP came from objectives and less from players. Presumably that’s what Anet is changing.

(Killing dolyak ambushes = 4 WXP per kill. 4?!? So if I escort a dolyak all the way to Stonemist I’ll get like 24 WXP. …wooooo)

For me its not a matter of the length of time it takes, but just the lack of anything worthwhile. Even if they sped up the rate by 1000% the abilities make no significant impact at all. And if it makes no impact, then it’s a pointless system. I mean in the end, I enjoy WvW and will still do it. But the WvW abilities are a joke of any sort of “progression system.”

I actually sort of feel bad for the dev who had to do it. I can see the meeting with his manager.

Manager: “I want you to design a progression system for World vs World.”

Dev: “Oh cool! Man that would a be lot of fun, I got all sorts of ideas!”

Manager: “But I need you to make the system pointless and insignificant… like an achievement system or non-alchoholic beer.”

Dev: "Oh. But we already have those pointless systems in place. Why add another?

Manager: “Why did the Egyptians build pyramids? Why do the French have a different word for everything? Why would we make a multi-million dollar MMO and completely leave out a group finder tool? Some things just don’t make any sense at all and don’t need reasons. So don’t ask questions. Just make it happen.”

It doesn’t make any difference, because the passive skills don’t make any difference. WXP is basically just another carrot stick system, because the skills have no valuable impact on the game. The extra supply use to have a minimal amount of value, but with the introduction of supply traps, that little extra supply became pointless as well. And so all we have left is a system that’s made for players who likes titles next to their name, and watching a number increase.

You barely have to work for points, not sure why it is considered to slow? As long as WXP is based on tagging kills rather then how much you contribute to the kill, the system is an outright joke and is far to easy to get WXP.

For those of us that do not use siege and have no interest in siege, the WXP system is entirely pointless anyways.

Raven Paradox.1860:

I was glad to see that we finally get WXP when repairing walls/gates and for building siege. I facepalmed when I saw it was only one.

I’m all in for having it be longterm advantages to keep players involved, since lack of players is a major problem in WvW, but it comes to the point where you must be a WvW player only to obtain some of the ranks. I put maybe an hour or two in WvW a day, sometimes more, and sometimes none at all, but my highest rank is about 16 when I actively participate in just about everything there is to do in WvW when I enter it.

yeah. if roamers get the short end of the stick, sentries full on get the shaft. i put in about 8 hours a day, buying and setting up a ton of siege that will inevitably despawn (which is its own burden), watch the map to read enemy movements and relay it, manage the militia running around, and my single character is at rank 17. the majority of which i got while taking breaks to join our zerg. if i relied solely on defending, i still wouldn’t have broken double digits.

Tribio.8531:

HeliaXDemoN.1208:

Level up on WvW is just terrible.

I am with a lvl 16(60%), capped the ENTIRE eternal battleground with a big zerg (4 towers, 2 keeps and 2~4 camps) and I only go to lvl 18.

This problably like kill 10 bosses on pve(and more expensive) but I receive only kitten in my face.

- Less XP than pve
- kitten items(problably 1 green)
- Some kitten Karma
- Complete random Honor drop

When you get 65+ it’s more easy, the scale is just terrible for low level characters.

Please note that OP was talking about WxP and not regular XP..
And it’s well known that if you’re eager for rewards (karma, items, …) WvW isn’t the place to be (at the moment)..

ah, sorry.

I don’t see anyone blame this on the forum, I want to say this a some time ago.

I think there should be an emphasis on objectives over kills. That way lower tiers aren’t punished for preferring smaller scale battles (especially now that ranks directly convert to gold wealth).

Increasing the rate by adding new ways to get WXP sounds great. I just hope they don’t do what they did with karma where they added new ways that gave more and more of it to the point where everyone has surplus karma flowing out their ears.

DevonCarver.5370:

We agree that the rate is simply too slow right now and the build next week will make some major adjustments to that. And we will continue to analyze the data after that and make more changes as necessary. In addition we will be continuing to find ways to reward players who are doing more than just running around and killing other players.

Does ANet agree that it absolutely blows to have to guard a keep, tagging siege every half hour because it absolutely has to be done while everyone else is out there getting tons of loot bags, karma, and wxp? Or zergy, way too bloated, servers are on average 20-30 levels higher than anyone else on their tier?

Personally I would have liked to see these WvW Rank bonuses being per account instead of per character. All our WvW Achievements are per account, so I do not see the logic of this decision why WvW Rank bonuses need to be per character.

Runehand.9368:

Does ANet agree that it absolutely blows … tagging siege every half hour

Hahaha, apparently they agreed on that.

Runehand.9368:

DevonCarver.5370:

We agree that the rate is simply too slow right now and the build next week will make some major adjustments to that. And we will continue to analyze the data after that and make more changes as necessary. In addition we will be continuing to find ways to reward players who are doing more than just running around and killing other players.

Does ANet agree that it absolutely blows to have to guard a keep, tagging siege every half hour because it absolutely has to be done while everyone else is out there getting tons of loot bags, karma, and wxp? Or zergy, way too bloated, servers are on average 20-30 levels higher than anyone else on their tier?

Such a dedicated defender should get wxp just for staying in the keep during an assault or interacting with siege weapons between the 20 min and 30 min after they have been placed.

Yeah that’s what I mean. It’s hard to implement wxp for standing there without it being abused. But maybe tagging siege when it’s below 25% of it’s remaining time gives you like 10 WXP. That’d be a strong step in the right direction.

I think rezing should reward 10 wxp.

Taging siege should give 2 wxp.

Repairing walls and building siege 2 wxp.

I would like some way of rewarding scouting but I can’t think of how you would do it…so that may be impossible…

Logistics, defending fortifictions, doing the jobs no one else wants to do should be better rewarded by Wxp, normal xp and small amounts of karma. No money reward thou., doesn’t fit…