Guild Wars 2

Runehand.9368:

DevonCarver.5370:

We agree that the rate is simply too slow right now and the build next week will make some major adjustments to that. And we will continue to analyze the data after that and make more changes as necessary. In addition we will be continuing to find ways to reward players who are doing more than just running around and killing other players.

Does ANet agree that it absolutely blows to have to guard a keep, tagging siege every half hour because it absolutely has to be done while everyone else is out there getting tons of loot bags, karma, and wxp? Or zergy, way too bloated, servers are on average 20-30 levels higher than anyone else on their tier?

Given the changes they’ve made to WvW recently, I would venture to guess that’s not their intention. They seem to be trying to put more emphasis on supply camps and supply yaks in the game in an indirect way. I dont think they want people sieging up keeps way ahead in advance. I don’t think they want you baby sitting it. I think they want you to let it decay. I think they want siege to be build more on demand when needed. Meaning the tower/keep supply needs to have plenty in stock… making yaks and camps more vital… again… indirectly. The supply traps tend to only further point to this. By making camps an yaks more vital, they in turn spread forces out to keep those things better protected. Just my take on it at least.

Periodic events within the structure.

Build a siege weapon, a reminder event to refresh the timer.
Start upgrades, Retrieve supply from outside of the structure should give a bonus.

Allow players to help with some keep upgrades etc.
Allow players to drop 50% of carried supply into the structure for upgrade use, and earn Wxp for quantity dropped.

There’s room for improvement. Obviously these ideas aren’t perfect, but It’s something for those on guard duty.

The zerg in wvw are like rich people in the tax system. There’s not much you can do to hurt them. You guys say taking points and objectives should give better wxp. That will only result in zergs taking camps/towers/keeps instead of looking for fights against other zergs. Unless there is a sort of buff that punishes players for standing in a small space with 50+/30+/20+ players, zergs will still exist. It will be like the introduction of wxp, which resulted in a month of heavy zerg vs door action.

DevonCarver.5370:

We agree that the rate is simply too slow right now and the build next week will make some major adjustments to that. And we will continue to analyze the data after that and make more changes as necessary. In addition we will be continuing to find ways to reward players who are doing more than just running around and killing other players.

Well WvW is PvP (I hope), and pvp is in fact killing other players.

So indeed I think killing players should be rewarded more than any other thing.

I hope you are meaning the way in which you kill those players.

We should absolutely try to penalize somehow the zergy gameplay while incentive the medium and small scale pvp.

Am I wrong with this assumption?

Kraken.7514:

DevonCarver.5370:

We agree that the rate is simply too slow right now and the build next week will make some major adjustments to that. And we will continue to analyze the data after that and make more changes as necessary. In addition we will be continuing to find ways to reward players who are doing more than just running around and killing other players.

Well WvW is PvP (I hope), and pvp is in fact killing other players.

So indeed I think killing players should be rewarded more than any other thing.

I hope you are meaning the way in which you kill those players.

We should absolutely try to penalize somehow the zergy gameplay while incentive the medium and small scale pvp.

Am I wrong with this assumption?

I hope he means building siege/upgrading structures/repairing structures/escorting doliaks etc will get balanced WxP rewards while keeping player kills. Defending structure hopefully gets a slight edge on WxP rewards to promote defense more then PvDoor.

Xehanort.4589:

WvW is not pvp, wvw is about conquering the map with military strategy, that’s why they need to reward more those players that take and defend objectives instead of those chasing enemy zergs. We need a total rebalance to make players being more focused on important things (you don’t win the match if you kill players as they don’t reward points).

So instead of chasing enemy zergs we should wait for them in our keeps/towers till the moment they attack to destroy them then with our siege? Those AC buffs were clearly made for people like you.

I Deschain I.4623:

Xehanort.4589:

WvW is not pvp, wvw is about conquering the map with military strategy, that’s why they need to reward more those players that take and defend objectives instead of those chasing enemy zergs. We need a total rebalance to make players being more focused on important things (you don’t win the match if you kill players as they don’t reward points).

So instead of chasing enemy zergs we should wait for them in our keeps/towers till the moment they attack to destroy them then with our siege? Those AC buffs were clearly made for people like you.

Sometimes is a time to chase zergs down and kill them, other times is a time to wait for them to come to you, and there’s even other times as well. The point is you get rewarded for your time all the time.

I think a healthy map should have scouts, sentries, groupkittenting dolyaks, tapping keeps, sieges, worries about supply lines, and open field battles that serve an end (cutting reinforcements, supply, etc) and all sorts of things like that.

It might also be nice to see an impact based on WHERE you’re killing people.

Like a modifier to existing WXP values:

• WXP on area defense +100% (in range of a friendly dolyak, camp, etc)
• WXP on area offense +0% (in range of an enemy dolyak, camp, etc)
• WXP in the middle of nowhere -50%

WXP actions should be scaled based on how many friendlies are around you. 4 people (so 5 person team) is 100%. All the way up to nobody around you say 200% (only live players count, not NPCs).

Then in a zerg it could max out at say 49 other people around you with 20%.

This would help bust up zergs a little but not be so detrimental that zergs cease to exist.

Edit: Omg slamz. You posted that while I was typing my extremely similar idea.

Zepher.7803:

Ack! well some people don’t seem to have a problem with WXP ranks, I have seen people up into the mid 100’s? already and I am nowhere near that.

can you take a check of the Average Rank given a sample and see if the ranks are actually to slow? some people seem to have figured out how to get a bunch of Wxp quickly. and they are not sharing :P

The people with huge ranks, have been running with organised zergs, and repeatedly killing less organised zergs.

An organized 30 man blob wiping a less organised 50 man blob can potentially harvest 1-2k wxp each from a single wipe, due to the scoring system which allows an unlimited number of ppl to leech wxp from the same enemy.

Ppl will deliberately deal just a little dmg per enemy and switch targets in order to keep the enemy alive longer to allow more friendlys to “tag” before it dies.

Aoe classes can spread their fire to ensure they tag as many as possible, without killing anyone too quickly. Melee classes will move around using their cleave attacks to tag any downed enemys that would otherwise take too long to manually target.
The entire meta is based on sharing the wxp with as much of the friendly zerg as possible.

Recently killed players yield fewer wxp, but this timer seems to have been set too short and hasnt served to reduce the farming, as the dominant team can simply alternate between farming the 2 enemy servers in turn.

DevonCarver.5370:

We agree that the rate is simply too slow right now and the build next week will make some major adjustments to that.

Really? I kind of disagree, I find the leveling through the WvW ranks happens way to fast. I don’t even care for what my current title is called anymore, since it will be obsolete so soon anyways. I find the systems fails in making me proud of being a “soldier/knight/general/whatever in the glorious army of Riverside.” Those titles just fly by and are as easily forgotten as they are obtained.

Also, from my understanding, earning titles in WvW should be an endeavor that evolves over many months, and not some project that is done in a few weeks of farming.

Personally, I would have preferred a system that (maybe) keeps the numerical ranks, but only has a fairly small number of titles such as just ‘recruit/soldier/veteran/elite/champion/legend’, with the first tier (e.g., soldier) being obtained pretty early after, say, one or two weeks of WvW, and the final tier (e.g., legend) only being achieved after a fairly extensive period like six to eight months of very active WvW play. These would have been titles that a player can be proud of.

Just my 2 cents.

~MRA

MRA.4758:

Also, from my understanding, earning titles in WvW should be an endeavor that evolves over many months, and not some project that is done in a few weeks of farming.

If you gain ranks so fast I presume its because you run in big groups, fighting other big groups. Others that are scattered through their BL on reset night helping here and there, as the need arises don’t see it that way. And I think roamers are the same deal. If you would make it even slower I think it would push even more people towards zerging just to farm WXP. I cringe at the thought of farming WXP, as I don’t think its what fun is. I see it as a slow climb, but don’t give it too much thought. I got my rank 1 AC and Cannon skills, which are more than enough for me. I don’t really care about the title, but its nice to see that once in a while you get 5 points and can buy something with it.

Anyone saying WxP based levels are pointless has never destroyed a zerg with balista spread shot.

DevonCarver.5370:

Kraken.7514:

Well WvW is PvP (I hope), and pvp is in fact killing other players.

So indeed I think killing players should be rewarded more than any other thing.

I hope you are meaning the way in which you kill those players.

We should absolutely try to penalize somehow the zergy gameplay while incentive the medium and small scale pvp.

Am I wrong with this assumption?

WvW is about more than just PvP. Winning in WvW requires people building things, repairing walls, scouting, escorting dolyaks, etc. We want to continue to improve the rewards for doing those things as they facilitate the rest of your server capturing locations and killing foes. If you are helping to win the match, we want you to see rewards for that.

ANET’s approach is contradictory to itself, imo. One one hand you want to reward people for doing the things that matter and help contribute to a victory. I can get that. When it comes to fighting however the reward goes to the tagger. Not the people that get the job done. Drop the stupid tagging system and reward kills proportionally to the amount of damage done, and then make it so it is shared across the group so the support folks get their share.

Xehanort.4589:

I’d like to see how this 28th patch will change the wxp earning rate, because right now it’s a bigger effort than getting to rank 80 in pvp.

Just want to ask, how casual is casual?

I consider myself a casual player. I play from 7pm to 10pm (sometime till 12mn) from Monday to Sunday (except sometimes need to go out). Is that casual enough?

And yeah, I have a Major rank on my main, level 20 on one of my alts and 13 on my other alt.

So for me, the WxP points is not “few”.

I mostly cap camps, take towers from enemies BL and defend our BL. I am casually making appearances on EB.

I understand that the supply upgrade was ridiculously high considering you need 300 points to have +5 but that is the system, I guess we just need to comply with it.

As the saying goes. “Life isn’t fair, deal with it and move on.”

PS: I forgot to mention I am not on a ZERG server. I’m from tier 6 server Isle of Janthir.

DevonCarver.5370:

Kraken.7514:

Well WvW is PvP (I hope), and pvp is in fact killing other players.

So indeed I think killing players should be rewarded more than any other thing.

I hope you are meaning the way in which you kill those players.

We should absolutely try to penalize somehow the zergy gameplay while incentive the medium and small scale pvp.

Am I wrong with this assumption?

WvW is about more than just PvP. Winning in WvW requires people building things, repairing walls, scouting, escorting dolyaks, etc. We want to continue to improve the rewards for doing those things as they facilitate the rest of your server capturing locations and killing foes. If you are helping to win the match, we want you to see rewards for that.

Awesome to see you state this and to hear about the retroactive awarding of chests for wxp levels. Should we expect any other rewards retroactively? Or is this outside of your scope of abilities?

DevonCarver.5370:

Kraken.7514:

Well WvW is PvP (I hope), and pvp is in fact killing other players.

So indeed I think killing players should be rewarded more than any other thing.

I hope you are meaning the way in which you kill those players.

We should absolutely try to penalize somehow the zergy gameplay while incentive the medium and small scale pvp.

Am I wrong with this assumption?

WvW is about more than just PvP. Winning in WvW requires people building things, repairing walls, scouting, escorting dolyaks, etc. We want to continue to improve the rewards for doing those things as they facilitate the rest of your server capturing locations and killing foes. If you are helping to win the match, we want you to see rewards for that.

WvW is about more than just PvP? There a whole lot of people PvEing out there?

Also the things you listed you don’t actually reward people for in comparison to just tagging as many people as possible in a Zerg.

There is a reason all the people on the higher rank servers are high rank, Its because they’re zerging around tagging as many people as possible….It requires virtually no skill to do this.

nagymbear.5280:

If you gain ranks so fast I presume its because you run in big groups, fighting other big groups. Others that are scattered through their BL on reset night helping here and there, as the need arises don’t see it that way. And I think roamers are the same deal. If you would make it even slower I think it would push even more people towards zerging just to farm WXP. I cringe at the thought of farming WXP, as I don’t think its what fun is. I see it as a slow climb, but don’t give it too much thought. I got my rank 1 AC and Cannon skills, which are more than enough for me. I don’t really care about the title, but its nice to see that once in a while you get 5 points and can buy something with it.

No, this is my observation as a “soldier” who is doing his part wherever he is needed. It is usually more likely that I am part of the support and defense troops, than that I am running with the big groups. And still, as a regular player, ranking up happens to fast for my liking.

But I agree with you that there is a bias in favor of offensive gameplay with WvW, ans especially Commanders burn through the ranks even faster. This is just part of what I don’t like at the the system.

~MRA

Ethics.4519:

WXP actions should be scaled based on how many friendlies are around you. 4 people (so 5 person team) is 100%. All the way up to nobody around you say 200% (only live players count, not NPCs).

Then in a zerg it could max out at say 49 other people around you with 20%.

This would help bust up zergs a little but not be so detrimental that zergs cease to exist.

Edit: Omg slamz. You posted that while I was typing my extremely similar idea.

I have to agree with this. The buff to wxp should be based on the number of players around, this will make the playerbase scatter in smaller groups that try to capture as many points as possible. Though the number of players should be connected to those necessary to capture a tower or a keep, since camps are soloable for certain builds.

DevonCarver.5370:

Kraken.7514:

Well WvW is PvP (I hope), and pvp is in fact killing other players.

So indeed I think killing players should be rewarded more than any other thing.

I hope you are meaning the way in which you kill those players.

We should absolutely try to penalize somehow the zergy gameplay while incentive the medium and small scale pvp.

Am I wrong with this assumption?

WvW is about more than just PvP. Winning in WvW requires people building things, repairing walls, scouting, escorting dolyaks, etc. We want to continue to improve the rewards for doing those things as they facilitate the rest of your server capturing locations and killing foes. If you are helping to win the match, we want you to see rewards for that.

That will bring to players avoiding fights just to run safe to the next flag, or dolyak and get more XP.

Defend a tower should be rewarded only if someone is attacking that tower.
Escort a dolyak should be rewarded only if someone actually attacks the dolyak.
1 player capping a camp with no enemies inside should get NO reward… while 1 group of players capping a camp defended by 1 group of enemies should get a good reward.

otherwise we’ll see ghost zergs capping point and fleeing from battles.

DevonCarver.5370:

Kraken.7514:

Well WvW is PvP (I hope), and pvp is in fact killing other players.

So indeed I think killing players should be rewarded more than any other thing.

I hope you are meaning the way in which you kill those players.

We should absolutely try to penalize somehow the zergy gameplay while incentive the medium and small scale pvp.

Am I wrong with this assumption?

WvW is about more than just PvP. Winning in WvW requires people building things, repairing walls, scouting, escorting dolyaks, etc. We want to continue to improve the rewards for doing those things as they facilitate the rest of your server capturing locations and killing foes. If you are helping to win the match, we want you to see rewards for that.

Any thoughts/words on the prospect of introducing WXP boosters and/or crafting recipes like the current ones with Karma (but WXP instead)?