Guild Wars 2

The fall tourney failed because there is no risk, and no real reward.

Let’s shake it up a bit and solve the population unbalance in a more fair way rather then closing servers down just for the sake of it…

Servers placing 3rd in their respective tiers over a 8 week period will be closed down, and players forced to jump servers to one of a different tier for no charge!

You think your server is worth fighting for? Prove it!

On a side note, I am on Blackgate, but this is not an idea that spawns from that. An 8 week tourney gives jq and tc just as much advantage to 2v1 us and get rid of is once and for all! This goes for a lot of other tiers as well!

Discuss…

There is a thread discussing population imbalance with devs, why did you post this in a new thread? If you think your idea has some merit post it there, if not there is no point discussing it.

John Corpening.9847:

Hey guys,

It’s been an incredibly busy week for me and I’m not fully caught up yet but I am noticing patterns in the posts that I have been able to read. A lot of people are also saying that they can’t keep up so I think it is a good time to close this discussion out.

No, I think a separate thread is probably appropriate at this point mainly because if people choose to discuss it things in the original thread might get even more convoluted.

Not sure I want to touch this idea with a 10ft pole myself but it certainly would be an interesting environment to play in for a few weeks. o.O

On a side note more tangible rewards for winning do seem like a great way to increase the involvement but this would probably be too extreme for most players. I would love to see more guild involvement in WvW rewards and more guild focused WvW tools as well as some alternative ways to earn PvE rewards through WvW.

SURVIVOR SERIES!!!!

LETS DO THIS!!

Fury.6281:

The fall tourney failed because there is no risk, and no real reward.

Let’s shake it up a bit and solve the population unbalance in a more fair way rather then closing servers down just for the sake of it…

Servers placing 3rd in their respective tiers over a 8 week period will be closed down, and players forced to jump servers to one of a different tier for no charge!

You think your server is worth fighting for? Prove it!

On a side note, I am on Blackgate, but this is not an idea that spawns from that. An 8 week tourney gives jq and tc just as much advantage to 2v1 us and get rid of is once and for all! This goes for a lot of other tiers as well!

Discuss…

How about instead of allowing a huge amount of the WvW population to stay on 1 server(lets say hypothetically its Blackgate) we shut down that 1 server and make those people switch to other servers.

See I can post stupid ideas also.

sirflamesword.3896:

How about instead of allowing a huge amount of the WvW population to stay on 1 server(lets say hypothetically its Blackgate) we shut down that 1 server and make those people switch to other servers.

See I can post stupid ideas also.

He is suggesting a tournament where servers fight for the right to survive. 3rd place gets a free transfer and closes down. Would only take 1 or 2 servers to even out pops abit I bet. Shutting down a weak low population server makes plenty of sense. Killing a thriving server does not.

We’re going to solve population imbalance by allowing servers stuffed with fair-weather players who transfer for easy wins to beat up on and close down lesser populated servers that are only less populated because of the bloated blob servers like…er…Blackgate. Not surprising which server came up with the idea.

yes relegation style survivor series

Boysenberry.1869:

We’re going to solve population imbalance by allowing servers stuffed with fair-weather players who transfer for easy wins to beat up on and close down lesser populated servers that are only less populated because of the bloated blob servers like…er…Blackgate. Not surprising which server came up with the idea.

This is surprising that I, a BG player, would suggest this. As the more hated server of the t1 servers, we would probably be the ones that are deleted because of a 2v1 that would surely form. But it would be one hell of a fight and I garuntees it would be fun. Fair weathers will disagree I’m sure.

This is the case with all tiers. Tired of the relentless beating by the top dog? This is a chance to find a way to deal with them.

On the other hand, this is a way for servers who want to stand the test of time to prove their worth. WvW needs a competitive risk that brings out the strength and organization of a server, quite literally fighting for it’s life.

No matter what we suggest. Anet ignores it. Nothing will change.

What on earth would this do? Say blackgate gets ganged up on and deleted. Let’s follow this to the logical conclusion.

Blackgate is deleted. Everyone on blackgate is forced to move. Everyone on blackgate moves to SoS. SoS becomes the new blackgate.

Did this solve anything or make it even remotely worth anyone’s time? No, it did not.

Fay.2357:

What on earth would this do? Say blackgate gets ganged up on and deleted. Let’s follow this to the logical conclusion.

Blackgate is deleted. Everyone on blackgate is forced to move. Everyone on blackgate moves to SoS. SoS becomes the new blackgate.

Did this solve anything or make it even remotely worth anyone’s time? No, it did not.

That’s pretty much the whole argument with merging servers.

I have still yet to read a good reason why population imbalance is a problem.

Yeah they even ignore my wish since season1

No tournament and especially no reward for winner

Announced season 2 rewards (skin only for top server) where the killer of any remaining balance.

Fury.6281:

Servers placing 3rd in their respective tiers over a 8 week period will be closed down, and players forced to jump servers to one of a different tier for no charge!

You think your server is worth fighting for? Prove it!

Wire the players on Eredon Terrace millions of dollars so they can quit their day jobs and cover the server 7×24, and we’ll do just fine. Or, better yet, hire us a small army of SEA players to cover our overnight and we’ll also do just fine.

On reset night this week, we had more than twice the points of our two opponents. By Saturday morning, we were in second place. We got within a couple hundred points of the first place server again on Saturday and now Sunday morning, we are nearly 8,000 points behind. Our problem is not that we don’t care about our server or don’t fight hard for it. The problem is that we have a lot of players in the same time zones who have real lives and can’t play 7×24. I suspect Kaineng could similarly complain about being zerged by ET during our primetime and not their primetime. In other words, the problem is not a matter of effort but a matter of coverage disparities and there simply aren’t enough SEA/OCX players to give every server Blackgate-like coverage through the night.

Fury.6281:

On a side note, I am on Blackgate, but this is not an idea that spawns from that.

Then what does it spawn from? Don’t the players on Blackgate already give the game their all when they play?

Fury.6281:

The fall tourney failed because there is no risk, and no real reward.

Let’s shake it up a bit and solve the population unbalance in a more fair way rather then closing servers down just for the sake of it…

Servers placing 3rd in their respective tiers over a 8 week period will be closed down, and players forced to jump servers to one of a different tier for no charge!

You think your server is worth fighting for? Prove it!

On a side note, I am on Blackgate, but this is not an idea that spawns from that. An 8 week tourney gives jq and tc just as much advantage to 2v1 us and get rid of is once and for all! This goes for a lot of other tiers as well!

Discuss…

Yes, an excellent idea coming from someone on a server that would never in a million years be in any danger of losing and shutting down. I like my server. I don’t care that it’s underpopulated.

Don’t you have a blob to go absorb yourself back into or an arrow cart to refresh or something?

Next idea.

munkiman.3068:

I have still yet to read a good reason why population imbalance is a problem.

First, I’ve yet to hear from a player who enjoys being farmed.

The NPCs show up to be slaughtered again and again by more powerful players in PvE and WvW because they don’t care about their quality of play. But I doubt you’ll find a human that wants to sit at a spot on the map waiting for someone else to show up and inevitably kill them so they other person can have fun, at least not without playing them for ti. Years ago, on a tabletop role-playing game forum, a player commented that he didn’t play role-playing games to be the guy who grabs his chest, yells “I’ve been hit!”, and dies. I doubt many players are playing MMOs to be the guy who gets pummeled to death by a zerg while trying to solo-defend a tower against them so they can get more loot bags.

Second, the power dynamic in mismatched match-ups a lot like bullying.

Larger more powerful entities beating up on less powerful entities that can’t effectively defend themselves is normally described as bullying. Further, the games dynamics often encourage the two more populated servers to beat up on the least powerful server. Maybe many MMO players get off on being bullies, but (related to the first point) it’s not a lot of fun being bullied. It’s also not fun for most people to feel helpless. People don’t play to be victims, especially not for the enjoyment of others.

Third, in imbalanced match-ups, the rewards go to the players who have it easiest, not the underdog that fights against bad odds.

The unfairness and lack of enjoyment might be mitigated if the players expending the most effort under the worst situation received greater rewards for their effort than the blob following the tag around to stomp empty towers and outnumbered opponents, but that’s not what happens. What happens is that server that just about everyone can predict will win before a point is scored gets more rewards essentially for showing up. So what incentive do the servers that know they are destined to lose have for showing up?

Please note that I play on Eredon Terrace, a bottom-ranked server where a lot of people do show up every week despite the horrible odds. Of course there are players who will still show up and see how well they can do, even if the game doesn’t reward them and the score tells them they are losers. But I’d be lying if I told you that players don’t start leaving once playing starts to feel futile enough because it does happen. Better compensation for being a punching bag could help make it feel a little more worthwhile and appreciated to play the role of NPCs for another server to farm.

Interesting idea, or at least the way I’m thinking of it..

Server survivor:

Keep the matches relatively short (maybe 2 days max). The server with the biggest point spread between them and 1st place (in their match-up), gets knocked out. Those players can now in-turn join another server.

Looking at the servers now, Magguma has the largest point spread, so their server would then get the ax for the time being. So they (if they wish) can jump servers free of charge.

Rinse and repeat, do this every 2 days until 1 server is left standing. This should take roughly 10-12 weeks. At the end of the tournament; all players are returned to their home server.

This could work; if anything, it would test the whole server merge idea, and just exactly how many players it would take to fully fill servers before the que’s become ridiculous. It also isn’t permanent as players would return to their home server.

I’d be willing to give this a go.

Berk.8561:

munkiman.3068:

I have still yet to read a good reason why population imbalance is a problem.

First, I’ve yet to hear from a player who enjoys being farmed.

The NPCs show up to be slaughtered again and again by more powerful players in PvE and WvW because they don’t care about their quality of play. But I doubt you’ll find a human that wants to sit at a spot on the map waiting for someone else to show up and inevitably kill them so they other person can have fun, at least not without playing them for ti. Years ago, on a tabletop role-playing game forum, a player commented that he didn’t play role-playing games to be the guy who grabs his chest, yells “I’ve been hit!”, and dies. I doubt many players are playing MMOs to be the guy who gets pummeled to death by a zerg while trying to solo-defend a tower against them so they can get more loot bags.

Second, the power dynamic in mismatched match-ups a lot like bullying.

Larger more powerful entities beating up on less powerful entities that can’t effectively defend themselves is normally described as bullying. Further, the games dynamics often encourage the two more populated servers to beat up on the least powerful server. Maybe many MMO players get off on being bullies, but (related to the first point) it’s not a lot of fun being bullied. It’s also not fun for most people to feel helpless. People don’t play to be victims, especially not for the enjoyment of others.

Third, in imbalanced match-ups, the rewards go to the players who have it easiest, not the underdog that fights against bad odds.

The unfairness and lack of enjoyment might be mitigated if the players expending the most effort under the worst situation received greater rewards for their effort than the blob following the tag around to stomp empty towers and outnumbered opponents, but that’s not what happens. What happens is that server that just about everyone can predict will win before a point is scored gets more rewards essentially for showing up. So what incentive do the servers that know they are destined to lose have for showing up?

Please note that I play on Eredon Terrace, a bottom-ranked server where a lot of people do show up every week despite the horrible odds. Of course there are players who will still show up and see how well they can do, even if the game doesn’t reward them and the score tells them they are losers. But I’d be lying if I told you that players don’t start leaving once playing starts to feel futile enough because it does happen. Better compensation for being a punching bag could help make it feel a little more worthwhile and appreciated to play the role of NPCs for another server to farm.

I understand your frustrations (we get rolled on occasion too!) and while entirely valid issues, it still comes down the the mode itself, the way scoring works and the plain fact that population and coverage wins the day. Until those can be addressed (i’d suggest a “test bed” to work out kinks to changes) then no matter how things get shuffled, via an alliance system or flat our merges, unless anet controls the population imbalances we will continue to be stuck with the same problems. I’m more concerned with the aftermath of server merges and some sudo alliance system, and i think the devs are too. I know a few of them have posted how much they enjoy playing on their server, the ones they call home, so they at least have a good perspective in that sense.

The thing about servers and the extent that people are pretty passionate about their home servers, not to mention the amount of actual work it takes to maintain them as communities, for anet to flat out disassemble them, would more than likely, cause far more harm than good. Something they really don’t need right now.

Right now, it’s more like the mode is stale, moreso than the match-ups. While on NSP throughout our meetings, we do see varying tactics even the servers we often face change, including our own tactics, based on what we know from past fights. It’s mostly down to WvW not really getting much in the way of love for the mode.

I’d personally include EotM into the battle, introducing it has hurt WvW competitive state as a whole, but i think it could be rectified by some small changes and encorping into the fight. I don’t think it’s as kittened as some people say, but it does take away population from the battle.

I’m also of the mind that GvG needs to be a reality, this will naturally spread out population, since people starving for that mode won’t need to join servers that fight the model of the GvG scene.

I would totally support this if this was implemented. Too bad we know it won’t happen.

Pretty good idea, but this system should be permanent where the last place server at the end of each week gets deleted. Once there is only 1 server left, they should just delete WvW so that devon carter can get started on that raid content for pve.

Fay.2357:

Blackgate is deleted.

Would never happen.

BG would spam the forums, send support tickets and generally kick up the biggest stink.

Just look at Season 2, Anet felt so bad about that they bought them siege.

Berk.8561:

Then what does it spawn from? Don’t the players on Blackgate already give the game their all when they play?

It’s a ‘group think’ mentality, asking them to have perspective is an insurmountable task.

They equate most concerns people have down to ‘you jelly’.