Guild Wars 2

you have said that large coordinated groups are ok and that you want to discourage mindless zerging. well guess what a mindless zerg never kills a group and stops to stomp, only well coordinated groups can mass stop their dps to get stomps in. you keep saying that you can’t take the stats off orbs because then there will be no reason to fight for them but guess what the stat bonuses are stupid and no skilled group cares about them. we fight for the stomp buff cause it actually helps us win. After over a year of changes to wvw you had finally taken a step away from mindless zerging and now you took the majority of that change away.

basic idea im saying is take the stats off the orbs give us the stomp points back.

Stomp points were a bigger problem than the stats. They were extremely imbalanced and created a lot of very unhealthy incentives. I think they didn’t go far enough in removing them, honestly.

Why is it that only people from blackgate are against the nerf of bloodlust which almost everybody complained to be removed/nerfed for so long.

so Cry me a river, get over it and learn to adapt.

What was unhealthy about it, it promoted skilled small group play (to obtain the buff) and skilled large group play to get the points for the stomps. Only problem was the stats that came with it giving the large groups with the buff an unfair advantage in fights.

Le Rooster.8715:

Why is it that only people from blackgate are against the nerf of bloodlust which almost everybody complained to be removed/nerfed for so long.

so Cry me a river, get over it and learn to adapt.

And le rooster learning to adapt was using the orbs to win what you’re saying to do is play the way everyone has for the past year. I believe that’s called not adapting

Le Rooster.8715:

Why is it that only people from blackgate are against the nerf of bloodlust which almost everybody complained to be removed/nerfed for so long.

so Cry me a river, get over it and learn to adapt.

From what I remember, every one complained about the stats…which as said here and in the other thread was a non issue and we wouldn’t care if they were completely removed. Also I think Blackgate has adapted quite well to the prier bloodlust addition and will do so again. It’s funny that some of use come here and comment on the change and you say adapt, while for the last month everyone was flipping there kitten about the stats (not the points, the stats) and any person that said “adapt” was trolled for it.

You might want to save those tears for the up coming season.

Killer.4709:

What was unhealthy about it, it promoted skilled small group play (to obtain the buff) and skilled large group play to get the points for the stomps. Only problem was the stats that came with it giving the large groups with the buff an unfair advantage in fights.

It also allowed the server with superiour numbers to get more bloodlusts, so say it’s SoS vs BG in Eu time BG has all 3 bloodlusts’s and SoS is bunkering garri. Everytime BG kills a SoS because of buff and superiour numbers they gain 3 extra points, this would only further increase the score disparity. The only place where the bloodlust in it’s old state worked was t1, but i’m sorry the needs for 3 server don’t outweigh the complaints from the other 21.

Except bloodlust did not do ANYTHING to help with zergs. It just gave roamers something to do. It still does.

Your argument on population is wrong. Its has to do with your servers prioritys on the field and cross maps. JQ is currently beating Blackgate by ~50k while Blackgate has ~6% more score from non PPT. This has been the case in the past few matches in T1. This should be even easier for lower tier server that pride them selves in having more roamers.

As for it working for T1, yes it’s great for T1. Its great for T1 because the populations and coverage are very similar. We understand that this isn’t the case for the lower tiers and thats not our problem, its anets. Anet has time and time again implemented things that have pushed server imbalances further apart while making Tier 1 (NA) more balanced. It’s just another bandaid fix that is a poor attempt to fix something that they broke a long time ago starting with random match ups.

Good =stat change
Bad= less stomp points.
Now there really wont be any way to catch up to those servers with night cappers who have coverage while you sleep. There is less of a reason to take more than one Borderlands’s ruins, unless its a really close match and you want to deny your enemy stomp points.

Killer.4709:

What was unhealthy about it, it promoted skilled small group play (to obtain the buff) and skilled large group play to get the points for the stomps. Only problem was the stats that came with it giving the large groups with the buff an unfair advantage in fights.

The main thing is that it highly discouraged small roaming and going to maps where you’re outmanned, since the risk to reward ratio is so heavily skewed against you that you just become a liability. People still did it anyway, but doing so was basically the GW2 equivalent of feeding.

violentlycar.5267:

Killer.4709:

What was unhealthy about it, it promoted skilled small group play (to obtain the buff) and skilled large group play to get the points for the stomps. Only problem was the stats that came with it giving the large groups with the buff an unfair advantage in fights.

The main thing is that it highly discouraged small roaming and going to maps where you’re outmanned, since the risk to reward ratio is so heavily skewed against you that you just become a liability. People still did it anyway, but doing so was basically the GW2 equivalent of feeding.

I completely disagree with you. The orbs themselves give small groups an objective that is actually obtainable while taking keeps and towers are usually not. If there is an outmanned map that is where our roamers go first as it helps us get the blood lust for that map and our other maps can then utilize the additional points from stomping. So essentially if you had 1 queued map while the opponent has all maps queued a small group can still help by getting the orb buff to help their teams only queued map. This helps promote smaller group play rather than just zerging and it also promotes skilled play as its difficult to go into an outmanned area and take the orb buff.

The idea of points on stomp was an amazing one! It promotes more skilled play and more strategic play because you not only have to kill the enemy but you have to cut all dps to then get the stomps. It also promotes skilled small group play as that’s what it takes to get the orb and hold it especially against a map zerg. These things are exactly what the devs say they want and it’s what all skilled players want.

Le Rooster.8715:

Killer.4709:

What was unhealthy about it, it promoted skilled small group play (to obtain the buff) and skilled large group play to get the points for the stomps. Only problem was the stats that came with it giving the large groups with the buff an unfair advantage in fights.

It also allowed the server with superiour numbers to get more bloodlusts, so say it’s SoS vs BG in Eu time BG has all 3 bloodlusts’s and SoS is bunkering garri. Everytime BG kills a SoS because of buff and superiour numbers they gain 3 extra points, this would only further increase the score disparity. The only place where the bloodlust in it’s old state worked was t1, but i’m sorry the needs for 3 server don’t outweigh the complaints from the other 21.

I love how often I hear that the needs of the lower tier servers outweigh the needs of the top three. I could argue what your saying in so many different ways its point less but the fact is a 50 man bg zerg should be able to kill your 10 sos eu guys and if those 50 people have the restraint to cut off their dps and stomp you then all the more power to them. but if sos is fighting bg the match is already over so why balance the game for a match like that, balance it for servers that have even coverage. If sos was fighting people with close to their coverage then it promotes the same skilled type of play as it does for the top 3 servers.

Killer.4709:

but if sos is fighting bg the match is already over so why balance the game for a match like that, balance it for servers that have even coverage…

Because my clueless friend, starting this Friday we will have “Season 1 League Play” where you will be lucky if you see an SoR-BG-JQ match more than one time during the next 7 weeks.

You will likely have 6 weeks of matches with 1-2 “T2” Servers in it and let’s face it all 3 T1 Servers are more than capable of “farming” the Ruins in those matches just like they spawn camp T2 Servers during them now.

ANet determined that up to 3 Points per Stomp was too much and they adjusted it. It’s actually rather embarrassing the way you are going on as if they “nerfed it into the ground” when it isn’t that huge a difference:

• Everyone Holding 0-1 is the same as before
• Holding 2 is 1 point less per Stomp but is still Denying points to a Server
• Holding 3 is an advantage Denying points to both opponents

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

Killer.4709:

but if sos is fighting bg the match is already over so why balance the game for a match like that, balance it for servers that have even coverage…

Because my clueless friend, starting this Friday we will have “Season 1 League Play” where you will be lucky if you see an SoR-BG-JQ match more than one time during the next 7 weeks.

You will likely have 6 weeks of matches with 1-2 “T2” Servers in it and let’s face it all 3 T1 Servers are more than capable of “farming” the Ruins in those matches just like they spawn camp T2 Servers during them now.

ANet determined that up to 3 Points per Stomp was too much and they adjusted it. It’s actually rather embarrassing the way you are going on as if they “nerfed it into the ground” when it isn’t that huge a difference:

• Everyone Holding 0-1 is the same as before
• Holding 2 is 1 point less per Stomp but is still Denying points to a Server
• Holding 3 is an advantage Denying points to both opponents

Its funny how your saying all the t1 server can “farm” the ruins when tc is stacked enough to farm the other t2 servers as well.

Ive said this multiple times and ill say it again. Its not a simple thing to stop a zerg of mindless players from doing damage to stomp people. This was a step in the direction of skillful play, 20 skilled players do not get caught and killed by a mindless map zerg its called strategic placement. All your doing is whining cause your map zerg loses to our map zerg and we are smart enough to get stomps on you. Also saying that 3 points per stomp to 1 point isn’t big just shows how wrong you are.

Lower tier players need to understand that no matter what happens to this game you are going to be outnumbered. So rather than dieing over and over again play a bit more strategically and you won’t get stomped.

Bloodlust in general was a train wreck. At least the nerf is good.

Bloodlust = bad. Should’ve removed it totally.

I don’t really understand where the players are comming from when it comes to the stomp bonus. Almost every complaint was about the stats, and I think what they’ve done to it is decent, I could careless if they took stats away all together. I thought the stomp bonus was a great thing. It put in more decisions for the commander (decide if it’s worth the risk to stomp for more points or better to AoE the downed vice risk getting people killed.).

But if you think that stomping will help the over populated server win “harder?” then so be it, Anet can take the stomps away for all I care. Blow-out matches will look the same way no matter how the bloodlust buff works. But if taking it away makes people cry less then I’ll go with that one.

It provided room to outplay. “We’re losing harder than we would normally be losing,” is a really kitten excuse.

Stomp points didn’t help servers who were PvDooring because there was NO ONE TO STOMP. It gave servers the chance to outplay their opponents. No, it isn’t a “cure all” for coverage deficits, but a cure for that doesn’t exist. It brought the most dynamic and skill-based gameplay that WvW has ever seen and we kittened so much that it got nerfed into the ground within 3 weeks. Now, the stats are crap and “making sure your opponents don’t have it” isn’t really an incentive. People are going to hold one buff and map zerg as hard as ever.

As the best changes ever brought to WvW get phased into irrelevance, I can only sit here and look at the absolute morons who, even after a year of gameplay, really just do not understand how WvW works or why things are the way they are in-game at even the most basic of levels. Population has always and will always let servers win if it is too great. The bloodlust buffs and stomp points gave servers a fighting chance when their coverage is close within reason.

Balancing a game to make things “more fair” or “less kittenty” or w/e you would like to call it for servers with low population is a really poor way to design a game that is supposed to be inherently balanced towards greater numbers. If your server is going to lose anyway, why do you care so kitten much about the stomp points? You shouldn’t. The stats, I can understand being changed (even though the buffs were designed for small group play and were not sustainable by zergs), but the stomp points were the most impactful part of this change and now it has become essentially worthless because the one part of the buff that NO ONE complained about got destroyed in the process.

Bravo, all you crying carebears. You ruined the only good thing that ever happened to WvW just in time for seasons.

“Population has always and will always let servers win if it is too great. The bloodlust buffs and stomp points gave servers a fighting chance when their coverage is close within reason.”

And when a server is completly outnumbered 24/7 by a huge margin, it’s not only giving them more stomp points and higher stats but the outnumbered server no fighting chance, none..

aspirine.6852:

“Population has always and will always let servers win if it is too great. The bloodlust buffs and stomp points gave servers a fighting chance when their coverage is close within reason.”

And when a server is completly outnumbered 24/7 by a huge margin, it’s not only giving them more stomp points and higher stats but the outnumbered server no fighting chance, none..

Then you have lost any way so kitten.

Switch outmanned buff with orb buff (exempt stomp point) => GG
Hope they will finally understand this. reduce buff from 150 to 60 is a first step, keep this way!

As long as uneven matchups exist;

Any boost, whether it’s stats or points per stomp, is bad for the game

Get out of your T1 bubble and see how the rest of the WvW world is.
You might find that what’s good for T1 is bad for WvW.

kingcragus.6810:

aspirine.6852:

“Population has always and will always let servers win if it is too great. The bloodlust buffs and stomp points gave servers a fighting chance when their coverage is close within reason.”

And when a server is completly outnumbered 24/7 by a huge margin, it’s not only giving them more stomp points and higher stats but the outnumbered server no fighting chance, none..

Then you have lost any way so kitten.

No need to make it worse.

the problem with stomping, in the context of unbalanced matches, was that it gave the bigger team a really strong incentive to spawn camp.

that and the general feedback cycle of: team A outnumbers it’s opponents, dominates territory and get the bloodlust; bloodlust rewards them for being “more” by making them “better” with stats; better stats lead to them having an advantage in winning fights, those easier to win fights then gave them even more points.

it too easily snowballed into total domination, as opposed to being a mechanic that allowed weaker servers a chance to fight back.

Meanwhile mesmers clone’s don’t have the buff.

There should be two Outmanned Buffs for the second and third servers and some type of Bloodlust mechanic should be tied in with these Outmanned buffs. This way it is tied to population.

The point is if you are outnumbered so greatly, does it really matter that you are going to lose by 100k or 130k (the latter due to enemy has bloodlust buff with points on stomp)? With the original points on stomp, it’s actually possible for some server that was going to lose by 30k (due to slight less coverage in off hours) to win the match now through superior bloodlust control and open field combat. So I don’t understand why would you want to give up a deep mechanism just so that a server can feel good that oh I am only losing by 100k now not 130k.

I completely agree that the stat bonus on bloodlust buff should be removed, but the ppt on stomp of bloodlust actually does give the server with less coverage a better chance than before when they are not outnumbered too greatly. It adds depth to semi-balanced matches (even for low population servers when they get to face opponents that are not too overpopulated) and should not be nerfed just to appease to losing servers in lopsided matches.

Also people on this forum keep saying that oh we want NA to matter more than off hours in deciding winners. Guess what, with the original points on stomp, it’s actually closer to what you want. Opponent servers dominating in off hours cannot get too many points from bloodlust buff because there are no one to fight; servers that play smart, manage bloodlust better, winning open field battles more during prime time actually can make a big impact on PPT because there are more people to fight during that time!

Swamurabi.7890:

As long as uneven matchups exist;

Any boost, whether it’s stats or points per stomp, is bad for the game

Get out of your T1 bubble and see how the rest of the WvW world is.
You might find that what’s good for T1 is bad for WvW.

I love how being Tier 1 invalidates anything we have to say.

how bout this, No NA server has less then a high population so maybe if the other people on your server left the LS or dungeon for a bit you may be able to to field a force that could push your rating.

aspirine.6852:

kingcragus.6810:

aspirine.6852:

“Population has always and will always let servers win if it is too great. The bloodlust buffs and stomp points gave servers a fighting chance when their coverage is close within reason.”

And when a server is completly outnumbered 24/7 by a huge margin, it’s not only giving them more stomp points and higher stats but the outnumbered server no fighting chance, none..

Then you have lost any way so kitten.

No need to make it worse.

But the ppt on stomp actually make semi-balanced matches more fun with more depth. Are you saying they shouldn’t try to make semi-balanced matches more fun because servers in lop-sided matches that is now going to lose by 130k instead of 100k?

Reslinal.2359:

aspirine.6852:

kingcragus.6810:

aspirine.6852:

“Population has always and will always let servers win if it is too great. The bloodlust buffs and stomp points gave servers a fighting chance when their coverage is close within reason.”

And when a server is completly outnumbered 24/7 by a huge margin, it’s not only giving them more stomp points and higher stats but the outnumbered server no fighting chance, none..

Then you have lost any way so kitten.

No need to make it worse.

But the ppt on stomp actually make semi-balanced matches more fun with more depth. Are you saying they shouldn’t try to make semi-balanced matches more fun because servers in lop-sided matches that is now going to lose by 130k instead of 100k?

Well we are currently 210k behind, they could probably keep the bonus if they match the servers a bit better

Samhayn.2385:

Swamurabi.7890:

As long as uneven matchups exist;

Any boost, whether it’s stats or points per stomp, is bad for the game

Get out of your T1 bubble and see how the rest of the WvW world is.
You might find that what’s good for T1 is bad for WvW.

I love how being Tier 1 invalidates anything we have to say.

how bout this, No NA server has less then a high population so maybe if the other people on your server left the LS or dungeon for a bit you may be able to to field a force that could push your rating.

Bloodlust will be a broken mechanic for 6 out of the 7 weeks this season for Gold league. What makes T1 arguements invalid is that T1 is a balanced tier, something that you don’t see in most of the matches. That’s why I started out with “AS LONG AS UNEVEN MATCHUPS EXIST”

As for getting the rest of my very high server population to participate in WvW, why don’t the T1 servers stop recruiting/buying guilds from other servers and get the people on their own server into WvW. This way every server can grow their WvW population.

I love how the T1 population thinks that since they got to T1, anyone else can too. Except for the last 32 weeks, nobody has dropped out of T1, and it doesn’t look like that’s going to change for the next 8 weeks either.

aspirine.6852:

Reslinal.2359:

aspirine.6852:

kingcragus.6810:

aspirine.6852:

“Population has always and will always let servers win if it is too great. The bloodlust buffs and stomp points gave servers a fighting chance when their coverage is close within reason.”

And when a server is completly outnumbered 24/7 by a huge margin, it’s not only giving them more stomp points and higher stats but the outnumbered server no fighting chance, none..

Then you have lost any way so kitten.

No need to make it worse.

But the ppt on stomp actually make semi-balanced matches more fun with more depth. Are you saying they shouldn’t try to make semi-balanced matches more fun because servers in lop-sided matches that is now going to lose by 130k instead of 100k?

Well we are currently 210k behind, they could probably keep the bonus if they match the servers a bit better

I agree with you that they should match the servers better:) But again it should have no impact on the bonus point or not since the bonus point is meant to improve the semi-balanced matches (and actually gives the servers with less coverage in semi-balanced matches a better chance at winning).

For lopsided matches, losing by 210k or 180k really does not make a difference and is no reason to reject the bonus point and deny semi-balanced matches a more fun and in depth experience:)

Swamurabi.7890:

Samhayn.2385:

Swamurabi.7890:

As long as uneven matchups exist;

Any boost, whether it’s stats or points per stomp, is bad for the game

Get out of your T1 bubble and see how the rest of the WvW world is.
You might find that what’s good for T1 is bad for WvW.

I love how being Tier 1 invalidates anything we have to say.

how bout this, No NA server has less then a high population so maybe if the other people on your server left the LS or dungeon for a bit you may be able to to field a force that could push your rating.

Bloodlust will be a broken mechanic for 6 out of the 7 weeks this season for Gold league. What makes T1 arguements invalid is that T1 is a balanced tier, something that you don’t see in most of the matches. That’s why I started out with “AS LONG AS UNEVEN MATCHUPS EXIST”

As for getting the rest of my very high server population to participate in WvW, why don’t the T1 servers stop recruiting/buying guilds from other servers and get the people on their own server into WvW. This way every server can grow their WvW population.

I love how the T1 population thinks that since they got to T1, anyone else can too. Except for the last 32 weeks, nobody has dropped out of T1, and it doesn’t look like that’s going to change for the next 8 weeks either.

Why do you assume we should care or worry about the well being of your server or lower servers for that matter? If guilds are set on T1, they get to transfer here, period. If they show interest and we help with transfers, how is that our fault? People of SoR/JQ/BG have spent countless hours building this tier to its current balance, it didn’t just happen, It wasn’t till leagues that the exodus of other servers started to happen. T1 was only recruiting for coverage blind spots, leagues made it a arms race.

You say T1 arguments are invalid, I’d say any argument you have pertaining to T1 should be dismissed as your bias point of view and hate for tier 1 is clouding your judgement on the matter. As most Tier 1 players have said, the points for stomps were great for Tier 1 or balanced match ups <— if you are in neither of these then anything you say will be construed as QQ and hate.

Swamurabi.7890:

Samhayn.2385:

Swamurabi.7890:

As long as uneven matchups exist;

Any boost, whether it’s stats or points per stomp, is bad for the game

Get out of your T1 bubble and see how the rest of the WvW world is.
You might find that what’s good for T1 is bad for WvW.

I love how being Tier 1 invalidates anything we have to say.

how bout this, No NA server has less then a high population so maybe if the other people on your server left the LS or dungeon for a bit you may be able to to field a force that could push your rating.

Bloodlust will be a broken mechanic for 6 out of the 7 weeks this season for Gold league. What makes T1 arguements invalid is that T1 is a balanced tier, something that you don’t see in most of the matches. That’s why I started out with “AS LONG AS UNEVEN MATCHUPS EXIST”

As for getting the rest of my very high server population to participate in WvW, why don’t the T1 servers stop recruiting/buying guilds from other servers and get the people on their own server into WvW. This way every server can grow their WvW population.

I love how the T1 population thinks that since they got to T1, anyone else can too. Except for the last 32 weeks, nobody has dropped out of T1, and it doesn’t look like that’s going to change for the next 8 weeks either.

But you guys in T2 are screwed regardless whether there’s ppt on stomp for bloodlust or not though….does it really matter to you that now you are only going to lose by 100k instead of 130k without ppt on stomp? I can see how stat on bloodbuff affects you because it actually affects the fights, but ppt on stomp?

Also the ppt on stomp is not only good for T1, it’s good for any semi-balanced fights throughout the tiers as it adds depth to the fight and allow servers with slightly less coverage in off-hours to actually come back if they play well in prime hours. Isn’t that a lot that you guys are asking for?

Reslinal.2359:

Swamurabi.7890:

Samhayn.2385:

Swamurabi.7890:

As long as uneven matchups exist;

Any boost, whether it’s stats or points per stomp, is bad for the game

Get out of your T1 bubble and see how the rest of the WvW world is.
You might find that what’s good for T1 is bad for WvW.

I love how being Tier 1 invalidates anything we have to say.

how bout this, No NA server has less then a high population so maybe if the other people on your server left the LS or dungeon for a bit you may be able to to field a force that could push your rating.

Bloodlust will be a broken mechanic for 6 out of the 7 weeks this season for Gold league. What makes T1 arguements invalid is that T1 is a balanced tier, something that you don’t see in most of the matches. That’s why I started out with “AS LONG AS UNEVEN MATCHUPS EXIST”

As for getting the rest of my very high server population to participate in WvW, why don’t the T1 servers stop recruiting/buying guilds from other servers and get the people on their own server into WvW. This way every server can grow their WvW population.

I love how the T1 population thinks that since they got to T1, anyone else can too. Except for the last 32 weeks, nobody has dropped out of T1, and it doesn’t look like that’s going to change for the next 8 weeks either.

But you guys in T2 are screwed regardless whether there’s ppt on stomp for bloodlust or not though….does it really matter to you that now you are only going to lose by 100k instead of 130k without ppt on stomp? I can see how stat on bloodbuff affects you because it actually affects the fights, but ppt on stomp?

Also the ppt on stomp is not only good for T1, it’s good for any semi-balanced fights throughout the tiers as it adds depth to the fight and allow servers with slightly less coverage in off-hours to actually come back if they play well in prime hours. Isn’t that a lot that you guys are asking for?

One balanced match, out of 17. Works as designed.

EU
NA

T1 and possibly T2:
- Roamers (usually just 3-5 people) cap bloodlust while dodging 25+ man zergs.
- 2/3 servers outmanned on most maps 75% of the day (TCBL an hr ago had 10~ people on it, we had bloodlust with outmanned)
- Likes the stomp points

Not T1:
- Unknown number of people cannot get bloodlust from unknown size zerg
- 2/3 servers outmanned on most maps at least 75% of the day
- Does not like the stomp points

Anyone care to explain this to me? And don’t give me that “because we aren’t T1” nonsense. Not all of us have been T1 forever, we know what lower tier servers are like, this happens to us as well… except it fluctuates between the servers. The ruins are not going to upgrade themselves the longer a server holds it, they are very easy to casually cap. You do not have to actually fight people to take a bloodlust point, so whether or not you’ll get stomped depends on whether or not you are going to let yourself die.

Zikory.6871:

Why do you assume we should care or worry about the well being of your server or lower servers for that matter? If guilds are set on T1, they get to transfer here, period. If they show interest and we help with transfers, how is that our fault? People of SoR/JQ/BG have spent countless hours building this tier to its current balance, it didn’t just happen, It wasn’t till leagues that the exodus of other servers started to happen. T1 was only recruiting for coverage blind spots, leagues made it a arms race.

You seem to care enough to recruit/buy guilds and players from lower tiers. You’ll never stop until you have 24/7 queues. Guilds started leaving for T1 well before leagues were announced. The last time there was this much movement of players was right before free transfers ended. It took weeks of matches before the servers finally stabilized at their proper tier.

Zikory.6871:

You say T1 arguments are invalid, I’d say any argument you have pertaining to T1 should be dismissed as your bias point of view and hate for tier 1 is clouding your judgement on the matter. As most Tier 1 players have said, the points for stomps were great for Tier 1 or balanced match ups <— if you are in neither of these then anything you say will be construed as QQ and hate.

Just to point this out again, since the introduction of random matchups, there are more unbalanced matchups than there are balanced matches, by a large margin. Adding a boost that only works for balanced matches (T1) is bad for the rest of WvW. Fix the balance first, then introduce bloodlust.

Bloodlust needs to be completely removed from the game, or at best, it needs to be applied only and exclusively on top of the outmanned buff.

It is such a detrimental mechanic based on so many false assumptions its right down idiotic.

People in upper tiers falsely assume that the lower tiers have roamers to take these points. They dont. When they do take them they are splitting off their ONLY force into being even smaller and even more outmanned often making the difference between taking / not taking the main group’s objective.

In upper tiers it is nothing for few roamers to go get bloodlust, in lower tiers you have to make an active choice between taking an objective such as a tower or keep, while being vastly outnumbered and fighting people with 3 stacks of it because they can afford to have 2-3 groups of 5 camping these things.

This of course leads to further scew the match-ups, which in turn causes more players to bleed of off the lower tiers.

If you say “well they can simply roam and have their small groups take them” put your kitten where your mouth is, transfer to low tiers, and come roam and camp them against these groups. Lets see what you got and how it goes for you. And make sure you are on 24/7 while at it and go up against servers that have oceanic / euro coverage while you do not.

Do it, transfer and just do it. Bloodlust needs to go entirely. If you say or think otherwise, then prove me wrong, put up or S Tkitten.

Swamurabi.7890:

Zikory.6871:

Why do you assume we should care or worry about the well being of your server or lower servers for that matter? If guilds are set on T1, they get to transfer here, period. If they show interest and we help with transfers, how is that our fault? People of SoR/JQ/BG have spent countless hours building this tier to its current balance, it didn’t just happen, It wasn’t till leagues that the exodus of other servers started to happen. T1 was only recruiting for coverage blind spots, leagues made it a arms race.

You seem to care enough to recruit/buy guilds and players from lower tiers. You’ll never stop until you have 24/7 queues. Guilds started leaving for T1 well before leagues were announced. The last time there was this much movement of players was right before free transfers ended. It took weeks of matches before the servers finally stabilized at their proper tier.

Zikory.6871:

You say T1 arguments are invalid, I’d say any argument you have pertaining to T1 should be dismissed as your bias point of view and hate for tier 1 is clouding your judgement on the matter. As most Tier 1 players have said, the points for stomps were great for Tier 1 or balanced match ups <— if you are in neither of these then anything you say will be construed as QQ and hate.

Just to point this out again, since the introduction of random matchups, there are more unbalanced matchups than there are balanced matches, by a large margin. Adding a boost that only works for balanced matches (T1) is bad for the rest of WvW. Fix the balance first, then introduce bloodlust.

I think you misunderstand the point of recruitment pre season announcements. The point was to have 24/7 coverage not 24/7 queues. The idea of that is unrealistic, if you look at past recruitment pushes by each server (SoR/JQ/BG) it was always to combat new coverage gains by another server. Considering the only match up that we could plan for was SoR/BG/JQ why would you expect us to recruit with lower tiers in mind? No one recruited so we could smash T2 servers better.

As for random match ups, I fully agree. It was a nice change of pace since T1 was filling with a lot of hate at the time but it shouldn’t have been a permanent change. It was over all better for “balance” when the matches were based on rating.

Anyway, this is a endless argument. Were both going to have valid points that are bias due to where we play and our perspective.

Killer.4709:

you have said that large coordinated groups are ok and that you want to discourage mindless zerging. well guess what a mindless zerg never kills a group and stops to stomp, only well coordinated groups can mass stop their dps to get stomps in. you keep saying that you can’t take the stats off orbs because then there will be no reason to fight for them but guess what the stat bonuses are stupid and no skilled group cares about them. we fight for the stomp buff cause it actually helps us win. After over a year of changes to wvw you had finally taken a step away from mindless zerging and now you took the majority of that change away.

basic idea im saying is take the stats off the orbs give us the stomp points back.

yeah, there is really no point in giving a kitten about the orbs now, you will pretty much see every realm hold a single one, might as well make all stomps count and get rid of that stupid buff altogether…

The fact that a stomp had the potential to give 3 points made such a big difference and allowed underdogs to remain in the matchup.
Just an example of that is when sor was ticking at 190 and JQ at 350, the stomps made it so that in that 15 min, we both gained the same amount of score.
One side was doing it by their simple heavier presence in a specific timezone and blobing around, while the other picked its fights and stomped to keep the scores close.

Seeing as how close the BG/JQ/SoR matchup ended, how could one believe it to be a broken mechanic given the very little time it was out and given the fact that with these stomps out there, this was the closest matchup ever in the history of these 3 servers.

Also, stomps made such an impact that people actually had to think about taking the risk/reward of stomping during a big fight, when to stomp vs when to dps.

kitten the stats boost, wvw players dont give a kitten about that, we want our blob busting stomps! Now its gonna be back to blobing objectives, bravo ANET, how about you played a little or listened to the competitive players of wvw instead of the game’s casual base that sometimes goes into wvw…

Le Rooster.8715:

so Cry me a river, get over it and learn to adapt.

says the guy that complained enough about BL to have it nerfed. lol

violentlycar.5267:

Killer.4709:

What was unhealthy about it, it promoted skilled small group play (to obtain the buff) and skilled large group play to get the points for the stomps. Only problem was the stats that came with it giving the large groups with the buff an unfair advantage in fights.

The main thing is that it highly discouraged small roaming and going to maps where you’re outmanned, since the risk to reward ratio is so heavily skewed against you that you just become a liability. People still did it anyway, but doing so was basically the GW2 equivalent of feeding.

Just like they prevent you from spawn camping by not giving stomp points when the player is worth 0 wxp, they could easily make it so that outmanned buff denies the points from stomps as you are already likely to get free points from everything you own on that map. But that would be too smart of a thing to do

Tongku.5326:

1) People in upper tiers falsely assume that the lower tiers have roamers to take these points. They dont. When they do take them they are splitting off their ONLY force into being even smaller and even more outmanned often making the difference between taking / not taking the main group’s objective.

2) they can afford to have 2-3 groups of 5 camping these things.

3) And make sure you are on 24/7 while at it and go up against servers that have oceanic / euro coverage while you do not..

Split into numbers so I can respond.
1) If lower tiers do not have roamers, then why does every lower tier server claim T1 has less roamers? This is contradictory and I’m curious why they would claim this and then you say it isn’t.

2) This sounds extremely boring and unlikely. If it was true, hypothetically, then these servers would be more tryhard than T1 is. People dont even like scouting in T1, but you would ask them to sit on a point where if they lose concentration for even a moment they could actually be killed? I wouldn’t even respond to such a request. T1 roamers only bother with the points when they don’t have any or if the other server is really pushing for it. Otherwise we are killing people at south ruins.

3) This happens in T1 as well, like I said. Not every T1 server has perfect 24/7 coverage, not even JQ (the current #1) has 24/7 coverage. I gave an example in my previous post, 10 people maybe on the map (I only saw 3 other people… but I’m assuming there were about 10), we had bloodlust.

As for your request to transfer to a lower tier, does having a character on SoS count? They have really low population during NA time as well as nonexistant EU and marginal SEA.

Tongku.5326:

Bloodlust needs to be completely removed from the game, or at best, it needs to be applied only and exclusively on top of the outmanned buff.

It is such a detrimental mechanic based on so many false assumptions its right down idiotic.

People in upper tiers falsely assume that the lower tiers have roamers to take these points. They dont. When they do take them they are splitting off their ONLY force into being even smaller and even more outmanned often making the difference between taking / not taking the main group’s objective.

In upper tiers it is nothing for few roamers to go get bloodlust, in lower tiers you have to make an active choice between taking an objective such as a tower or keep, while being vastly outnumbered and fighting people with 3 stacks of it because they can afford to have 2-3 groups of 5 camping these things.

This of course leads to further scew the match-ups, which in turn causes more players to bleed of off the lower tiers.

If you say “well they can simply roam and have their small groups take them” put your kitten where your mouth is, transfer to low tiers, and come roam and camp them against these groups. Lets see what you got and how it goes for you. And make sure you are on 24/7 while at it and go up against servers that have oceanic / euro coverage while you do not.

Do it, transfer and just do it. Bloodlust needs to go entirely. If you say or think otherwise, then prove me wrong, put up or S Tkitten.

This is not a game mechanic issue, its a population one, so stop saying its broken when you dont even have the proper population for the game mode. It is meant to be a balance addition to break the blobs apart.
No matter what anet comes up with, there is nothing they can do about a servers inability to fill the maps, and is a topic unrelated to bloodlust.

Tongku.5326:

Bloodlust needs to be completely removed from the game, or at best, it needs to be applied only and exclusively on top of the outmanned buff.

It is such a detrimental mechanic based on so many false assumptions its right down idiotic.

People in upper tiers falsely assume that the lower tiers have roamers to take these points. They dont. When they do take them they are splitting off their ONLY force into being even smaller and even more outmanned often making the difference between taking / not taking the main group’s objective.

In upper tiers it is nothing for few roamers to go get bloodlust, in lower tiers you have to make an active choice between taking an objective such as a tower or keep, while being vastly outnumbered and fighting people with 3 stacks of it because they can afford to have 2-3 groups of 5 camping these things.

This of course leads to further scew the match-ups, which in turn causes more players to bleed of off the lower tiers.

If you say “well they can simply roam and have their small groups take them” put your kitten where your mouth is, transfer to low tiers, and come roam and camp them against these groups. Lets see what you got and how it goes for you. And make sure you are on 24/7 while at it and go up against servers that have oceanic / euro coverage while you do not.

Do it, transfer and just do it. Bloodlust needs to go entirely. If you say or think otherwise, then prove me wrong, put up or S Tkitten.

Our false assumptions are based off the countless posts about how there are no roamers in T1, if you like to roam and small battles come to lower tiers…As some one that has been on Blackgate since day 1, I assumed roaming was more active on lower tiers completely based off what is said here on the forums. So either you’re lieing to make a point or every one else is…

Also its unnecessary to transfer to prove you wrong. Me and a group of 4 people were capping, flipping and holding the node on a completely out manned map while what I assume was queued map for both JQ and TC last night. Its your map priority’s that may be the issue. By us roaming the nodes, it made our forces on ebg and our active BLs more effective, they would be gaining more points then we would from failing to attack a keep or defending a tower.

Again its more of a coverage issue that makes people dislike bloodlust, here’s the thing, you could see more movement to lower tier servers if the way the game was scored changed. Scrap PPT, only award points for yak kills and the initial capturing of an objective, also award points for player kills and bonus points for stomps when you have blood lust. This then keeps the “bigger server” from racking up points during off hours. This also makes defending important to deny the enemy the capture points and at the same time you accumulate points from kills during the defense.

you then allow free transfers from a specific server to a different lower wvw rep server. Yes you may still have some stacking on the tier 1 servers but when we face servers that are no shows you wont have the outlandish blowouts we have now.

Swamurabi.7890:

Reslinal.2359:

Swamurabi.7890:

Samhayn.2385:

Swamurabi.7890:

As long as uneven matchups exist;

Any boost, whether it’s stats or points per stomp, is bad for the game

Get out of your T1 bubble and see how the rest of the WvW world is.
You might find that what’s good for T1 is bad for WvW.

I love how being Tier 1 invalidates anything we have to say.

how bout this, No NA server has less then a high population so maybe if the other people on your server left the LS or dungeon for a bit you may be able to to field a force that could push your rating.

Bloodlust will be a broken mechanic for 6 out of the 7 weeks this season for Gold league. What makes T1 arguements invalid is that T1 is a balanced tier, something that you don’t see in most of the matches. That’s why I started out with “AS LONG AS UNEVEN MATCHUPS EXIST”

As for getting the rest of my very high server population to participate in WvW, why don’t the T1 servers stop recruiting/buying guilds from other servers and get the people on their own server into WvW. This way every server can grow their WvW population.

I love how the T1 population thinks that since they got to T1, anyone else can too. Except for the last 32 weeks, nobody has dropped out of T1, and it doesn’t look like that’s going to change for the next 8 weeks either.

But you guys in T2 are screwed regardless whether there’s ppt on stomp for bloodlust or not though….does it really matter to you that now you are only going to lose by 100k instead of 130k without ppt on stomp? I can see how stat on bloodbuff affects you because it actually affects the fights, but ppt on stomp?

Also the ppt on stomp is not only good for T1, it’s good for any semi-balanced fights throughout the tiers as it adds depth to the fight and allow servers with slightly less coverage in off-hours to actually come back if they play well in prime hours. Isn’t that a lot that you guys are asking for?

One balanced match, out of 17. Works as designed.

EU
NA

Why are you pick selected samples like this week? How about last week like this http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/history/111?

And again balanced matches has nothing to do with bloodlust but to do with ANET’s way of matching servers, why are you trying to mix the two together? If you are losing by 100k anyway, does it really bothers you that much that you may lose 130k now because there are ppt on stomp for bloodlust buff?

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Only T1 servers think bloodlust is fine, what a surprise.

Stacked Quarry, Stackgate and Sanctum of Stacking do not see the negative impact bloodlust causes on the game, because they are mindless drones, flocking to the security of player numbers while 1 mashing and opening champ loot. Try thinking about what it implements, think. You know, with your brain?

Enlightening me then, how does ppt on stomp from bloodlust buff actually make things worse in semi-balanced matches and why does it have any relevant impact on lopsided matches anyway?

With the ppt on stomp, servers that play well in NA prime actually can make up the points they lost in off hours. Why? Because you have more people to stomp in prime hours than in off hours, so bloodlust buff actually rewards good play in prime hours more. Isn’t that what you are asking for and good for balance?

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Only T1 servers think bloodlust is fine, what a surprise.

Stacked Quarry, Stackgate and Sanctum of Stacking do not see the negative impact bloodlust causes on the game, because they are mindless drones, flocking to the security of player numbers while 1 mashing and opening champ loot. Try thinking about what it implements, think. You know, with your brain?

and here we have a post that makes me want to care? Please me how bloodlust has a poor effect on a close or balanced match up? Then explain to me how it even matters in a blow out?