Guild Wars 2

fix the boon sharing – boon spam – boon duration.

you get 10 people, commander stats, rune of durability, signet of ispiration, 2 rev boon +50% duration,

result?

30s+ of resistance, (with all the others – protection – regen – swiftness – might – fury)

if durability 4th bonus is 25% when struck give protection-regeneration-resistance(1s) aoe
with 25s of cd, and should arrive to 15?18? seconds at the most? why then see 10 group people with 30s+???

something isnt tuned properly then….

at the moment in some group builds there isnt any weakness (i dont care if its from metabattle.com or did from whatever player).

2 groups same way? fight last 34 hours and no one dies,
this assuming no one faints in front of a keyboard after a continued 34 hours!

how do you stop them? with wells? so need a group of 10 necros wells? please we need other solutions.

ive already suggested – said that

“resistance is ok as boon with those condi bombs – but cant work as 100% immunity –
changed to 33 or 50% as protection does with direct damage”

here i even suggest if you prefer keeping the 100% immunity that well, resistance max duration could even be blocked to something 10s? 15s? but not more – there must be a “weakness” somewhere

regards

The pvers are fat and happy with boon duration. Therefore anet won’t touch it.

yeah i agree in raids and in pve, but this is Wvw section, not “general” not “pve” so…

its a well oriented suggestion-complain-please fix thread…. wvw section – wvw scenario

funghetto.1584:

fix the boon sharing – boon spam – boon duration.

you get 10 people, commander stats, rune of durability, signet of ispiration, 2 rev boon +50% duration,

result?

30s+ of resistance, (with all the others – protection – regen – swiftness – might – fury)

if durability 4th bonus is 25% when struck give protection-regeneration-resistance(1s) aoe
with 25s of cd, and should arrive to 15?18? seconds at the most? why then see 10 group people with 30s+???

something isnt tuned properly then….

at the moment in some group builds there isnt any weakness (i dont care if its from metabattle.com or did from whatever player).

2 groups same way? fight last 34 hours and no one dies,
this assuming no one faints in front of a keyboard after a continued 34 hours!

how do you stop them? with wells? so need a group of 10 necros wells? please we need other solutions.

ive already suggested – said that

“resistance is ok as boon with those condi bombs – but cant work as 100% immunity –
changed to 33 or 50% as protection does with direct damage”

here i even suggest if you prefer keeping the 100% immunity that well, resistance max duration could even be blocked to something 10s? 15s? but not more – there must be a “weakness” somewhere

regards

Ok so, you start killing off non heal support, then what? Do we turn this game into whoever nukes first wins?

This game lacks decent support roles and ranged support skills so there is no other choice except to stack up and buff as much as you can to survive the 50 people dropping tons of damage on you.

It’s all equal access and there is always a winner unless someone runs, so I don’t know what the issue is here. This is not halo where everyone picks their gun, this is an mmo where we are supposed to have much more complexity and diversity to classes and skills and combat. If you want one dimensional gameplay there are a lot of other game choices out there.

ive already suggested – said that
“resistance is ok as boon with those condi bombs – but cant work as 100% immunity –
changed to 33 or 50% as protection does with direct damage”

“This game lacks decent support roles” lacks support roles? when a druid ranger can give more sustain aoe than an ele in a berserk build????

sorry mate, but i see this game a bit messed XD

when every kind of class (speaking of group builds – not solo not casual people moving together)

MUST HAVE THAT ONLY RUNE TO WORK OUT – makes me wonder if the game is working correctly-

but probably im the stupid one that says the truth while everyone just sits and stay in silence?

lol, it’s funny…I remember asking for nerfs to boon sharing comps a while ago when they first started being played, and people were like ‘no, it’s fine, it doesn’t need to be nerfed’…now, i run into these ‘nerf boonshare’ threads more and more, it seems…personally, now all I really want is for resistance to be nerfed to provide like a -X% to condition duration or damage instead of just a blanket protection against all condis, b/c that’s just too OP…second, i wish protection would be reduced to -20% damage reduction…zergs are getting so tanky now with all the damage reduction sources added up, and I’m glad Anet nerfed all those skills that provided -50% damage reduction…i think the next step now is to nerf the protection boon as well. looking at it now, it’s not the boonshare comp as a whole that I have a problem with…it’s just that some boons like resistance and protection are just too strong ATM.

ps, also nerf the amount that healing power affects regeneration.

There are alternatives one can consider.

Make resistance work only against damaging conditions. Thus blinds/weakness/immob and the like would still work as usual.

Add a new status called denuded to the game. I suggested this be added to the new thief skill rending shade as example. This would add “when a boon stolen target player can not apply boons for 5 seconds”

Change durability so it applies the boons only to the person wearing the rune.

Boon share should still be in the game but there has to be meaningful counters and it should not be used to have permanent boons on every person in the group.

LionChain.7694:

lol, it’s funny…I remember asking for nerfs to boon sharing comps a while ago when they first started being played, and people were like ‘no, it’s fine, it doesn’t need to be nerfed’…now, i run into these ‘nerf boonshare’ threads more and more, it seems…personally, now all I really want is for resistance to be nerfed to provide like a -X% to condition duration or damage instead of just a blanket protection against all condis, b/c that’s just too OP…second, i wish protection would be reduced to -20% damage reduction…zergs are getting so tanky now with all the damage reduction sources added up, and I’m glad Anet nerfed all those skills that provided -50% damage reduction…i think the next step now is to nerf the protection boon as well. looking at it now, it’s not the boonshare comp as a whole that I have a problem with…it’s just that some boons like resistance and protection are just too strong ATM.

ps, also nerf the amount that healing power affects regeneration.

Ok, then we need to cut out damage across the board by whatever percent to balance… See how that all goes?

Healing support is sad in this game already…

Can’t believe y’all are having these issues really.

Their is boon stripping.Just need people willing to use it.

The only thing that I think should turn down is prebuffing. It’s fine to have all these OP boons in combat because incoming damage is ridiiclous without it, but on the other hand so is getting 1 min of prot and quickness before you even start a fight makes it really passive and kills all semblance of diversity.

Maybe a arbitrary time cap on quickness, resistance, protection, and fury?

darkaheart.4265:

would limiting the duration of certain boons help? only in wvw, of course.

pretty much whats going on in this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Can-WvW-get-some-profession-balancing/first#post6319325

Resistance as a boon is overtuned because it is immunity. Boons are designed to be shared, etc., and that shouldn’t change. The effectiveness of those boons is the only thing that needs to be changed to balance the effectiveness of boon sharing and stacking.

People should run boon corruption and steal to compensate for boonshare itself. Quickness and Protection and Resistance probably need to be looked at to prevent the boonsharing/stacking from making those effects too OP.

Once again, Mesmers find a way to become relevant again in the meta and the community is up in arms. That class has been nerfed to the ground and was pigeonholed into this role, leave them be.

@Serum OP has a valid point that the boon spam is beyond ridiculous. But you are also right that it is not solely mesmers fault and the solution to this is not to nerf mesmers (though nerfing that ridiculous 50% boon duration that revs get would help).

I agree with leaving boonshare be , however I also agree with tuning down the buffs in wvw so you don’t have invincible zergs by default. Also its not the normal mesmer players, but mesmers that often abuse stealth, blinking and other movement and other sills that generate the nerfs so blame the abusers if you don’t like whats happened to mesmers. This is just the latest in the long line of wvw metas that get overused abused and therefore nerfed to the ground instead of properly balanced for the wvw application.

dragonrage.8921:

I agree with leaving boonshare be , however I also agree with tuning down the buffs in wvw so you don’t have invincible zergs by default. Also its not the normal mesmer players, but mesmers that often abuse stealth, blinking and other movement and other sills that generate the nerfs so blame the abusers if you don’t like whats happened to mesmers. This is just the latest in the long line of wvw metas that get overused abused and therefore nerfed to the ground instead of properly balanced for the wvw application.

I have to ask… How does one abuse blinking?

They don’t. And if cheese stealth builds are annoying him then how come he didn’t complain about those perma evade or perma stealth thieves? They are more annoying in my opinion than a mesmer that runs torch

OriOri.8724:

@Serum OP has a valid point that the boon spam is beyond ridiculous. But you are also right that it is not solely mesmers fault and the solution to this is not to nerf mesmers (though nerfing that ridiculous 50% boon duration that revs get would help).

And the damage and condition spam isn’t bad?

You start killing off support and you’ll get a one dimensional “nuke first to win” game. Can’t have an mmo like this without a system of checks and balances.

I’m sincerely not trying to be disrespectful, but do most of you come from FPS shooter games and expect everything to be dps?

Swagger.1459:

OriOri.8724:

@Serum OP has a valid point that the boon spam is beyond ridiculous. But you are also right that it is not solely mesmers fault and the solution to this is not to nerf mesmers (though nerfing that ridiculous 50% boon duration that revs get would help).

And the damage and condition spam isn’t bad?

You start killing off support and you’ll get a one dimensional “nuke first to win” game. Can’t have an mmo like this without a system of checks and balances.

I’m sincerely not trying to be disrespectful, but do most of you come from FPS shooter games and expect everything to be dps?

Condition spam is bad, I never said it wasn’t. But having 50% boon duration built into a class is direct powercreep and is very unhealthy for the game. This is a very very powerful stat that previously was extremely limited, and of the few sources that you could get it, all of them combined were less than 50% iirc. Giving Revs 50% boon duration just as a class perk is horrible design, if they needed longer buffs then their skills should have applied buffed that lasted 50% longer. Boon duration should be extremely rare. Its bad enough that HoT introduced food with %boon duration alongside new stat combos that give concentration.

Condition spam and boon spam are both very real and very big problems in this game. But the inherent boon duration aspect of Revenants is a somewhat separate problem as it doesn’t affect how fast condis and boons are applied now, just how long boons last (and btw, 100% uptime on fury and might is made much easier with this 50% boon duration and is a heavy factor in nuke first to win). I’m not trying to be disrespectful either, but honestly its a bit hypocritical to complain about the nuke first to win direction this game is headed and then defend the direct power creep that is 50% inherent boon duration in a Revenant facet, which AKAIK is the only boon duration source that also affects multiple people from a single source.

Foods and runes with boons duration already existed before HoT. I can run 45% (or 50% if I use water runes) boon duration +3% per boon on me as base mesmer.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW8fl0nhC0YbawMNwtGLEHkZASwCRD9oL9ZDuwnB-T1RGABtt/gCPBAiU+BwFBwMdDAq+zdKBJFQgTtA-w

people just cry about boons but they forget how ridiculous condi and damage
resistance is fine with current condi bomb
damage reduction stacking is fine with current power creeps
the only boon I agree need some tweak is quickness

if you want to nerf, nerf all of them

Just because condis are spammy right now doesn’t mean that resistance isn’t overpowered. There shouldn’t be a single boon that can shut down all aspects of conditions (the damage and CC) and can be kept up 100% of the time thanks to the powercreep in boon duration. That completely shuts down condi damage and is not fair considering there isn’t an equivalent for power damage (nor should there be).

Yes, condition spam needs to be looked at, but that is not a good argument to keep resistance as it is. Its simply too powerful

everything everyone said is correct…

i say that with a little “tweak” in wvw scenario or general

protection boon is a 33% direct damage reduction? fine – perfect – MUST with all this powercreep around … all perfect…

but REALLY, WHY resistance is a 100% reduction? a immunity?

i simply find it too powerful as it is now, make it a 50% reduction of damage – that would give some conditions somewhere – especially the soft CC (imobilized – cripple – chill)

resistance like it is now, its like the old stability.

get a blob, perma resistance (with all the others boons too) → steamroll whatever comes in front of you….

The problem with these threads is that they are threadnoughts and not actual discussion topics.

There are counter arguments that have been posted and still continue to be posted but they are promptly ignored in favour of creating new threads on the same topic.

Boon duration is directly countermanded by boon rips.

There are other issues with the boon spam (same as the spam of other effects in this game now as it has aged while adding more- and more complex effects).

Boon duration is not the issue though and any claim that duration is the root cause of the issues is simply false. Duration only has to do with time and any time longer than the rip interval simply becomes superfluous once you have rips. That’s why any and all threads or posts complaining about prestacking boons become ridiculous, because the only real issue is the amount of boon sources compared to removal sources (and even that does not have to be 1:1 to remain relatively balanced), same as with cleanse to conditions.

It is a misconception tied to the stacking of boons when taken at face value. Duration-stacking, too, is rather easily countered while most of the issues with boon spam is counterable by those willing to dedicate into it. The only balance issue to possibly adress is the variety of boons available to the classes and the application interval of related skills.

ArchonWing.9480:

The only thing that I think should turn down is pre-buffing. It’s fine to have all these OP boons in combat because incoming damage is ridiculous without it, but on the other hand so is getting 1 min of protection and quickness before you even start a fight makes it really passive and kills all semblance of diversity.

Maybe a arbitrary time cap on quickness, resistance, protection, and fury?

2 wrongs don’t make a right. The amount of CC both soft and hard has gone through the roof with HoT and needs toning down while at the same time resistance needs to not provide complete immunity to conditions.

Besides didn’t ANet spend a large chunk of time trying to cut down boon duration so people couldn’t get permanent uptime on all boons so easily? Wish they would go back to that.

subversiontwo.7501:

Boon duration is directly countermanded by boon rips.

Wrong, because in WvW large scale there is massive imbalance between the amount of boon spam / boon duration available and the amount of boon rip, it wasn’t even balanced years ago when you had melee heavy meta when there was far less boon spam/duration which is why it was all about immobilize/chill back then.

SInce HoT boon spam/duration has gone through the roof, whilst boon strip has barely changed in comparison, so it is even less effective now.

Just be careful not to tweak too far or it’s back to boring pirate ship meta… at least front liners can engage in the current meta. But yes the duration some boons stack is pretty excessive … I saw a picture where a guy have over 1 min on fury, prot, regen, swift (this is understandable), alongside other boons that had something like 30 or seconds. It’s a really good visual to put things into perspective on how powerful it is.

zinkz.7045:

subversiontwo.7501:

Boon duration is directly countermanded by boon rips.

Wrong, because in WvW large scale there is massive imbalance between the amount of boon spam / boon duration available and the amount of boon rip, it wasn’t even balanced years ago when you had melee heavy meta when there was far less boon spam/duration which is why it was all about immobilize/chill back then.

SInce HoT boon spam/duration has gone through the roof, whilst boon strip has barely changed in comparison, so it is even less effective now.

It’s imbalanced because of player choice…

Looking at this mathematically:

6 Mesmers:
5 are playing boon share, 1 is playing boon strip. This alone naturally creates the illusion that there is an imbalance as there are 5 mesmers overproducing boons for 1 mesmer to handle stripping alone, it does make it feel like it’s not worth it because you’re over shadowed by boon share.

Side note: There is plenty of boon strip roles, they produce less bags but there are option to play it if one doesn’t mind missing out on tagging more enemies and being mostly group support. It’s like playing the dedicated Water Elementalist, no bags but you know you’re being useful.

Even if you ARE the ONLY boon stripping person or boon corrupting person in your group, you can still be a royal pain by focusing the driver… Have you ever seen a driver go to push just as his stab was stripped?

protection, quickness and resistance should not stack in duration.

those boons are simply too strong where there are enough numbers, they escale exponientaly.

it makes the facerolling melee train possible, and that meta is even worst than the pirate ship, simply because you only hit 1 and go and back.

Those boons should be careful applied and not “drop’em as much as u can” style is right now. they make pve content absurdly trivial and wvw extremely frustrating if you dont follow the boonshare meta.

Easy fix to boon sharing problem, cap boon sharing for quickness and resistance to around 20s. Good day.

sephiroth.4217:

It’s imbalanced because of player choice…

Looking at this mathematically:

6 Mesmers:
5 are playing boon share, 1 is playing boon strip. This alone naturally creates the illusion that there is an imbalance as there are 5 mesmers overproducing boons for 1 mesmer to handle stripping alone, it does make it feel like it’s not worth it because you’re over shadowed by boon share.

Side note: There is plenty of boon strip roles, they produce less bags but there are option to play it if one doesn’t mind missing out on tagging more enemies and being mostly group support. It’s like playing the dedicated Water Elementalist, no bags but you know you’re being useful.

Even if you ARE the ONLY boon stripping person or boon corrupting person in your group, you can still be a royal pain by focusing the driver… Have you ever seen a driver go to push just as his stab was stripped?

Not really, there is simply vastly more boon spam in the game than boon strip.

Let’s start with the differences in skills, a lot of boon generation is AOE, where as really all you have for AOE boon strip is null field or well corruption, so generation > ripping in this respect.

Then you have that boon generation skills are far more common amongst the classes, outside of necro and mesmer you basically have nothing useful for boon strip (and even some of mesmer boon rip that can be used in PvP like the rip on shatter trait is useless in large scale WvW), where as every class has at least some easily available AOE boon generation.

Then you have the difference in application, take nullfield as you mention mesmers, it has a 32 sec cooldown, meanwhile revs for instance can pump out AOE boons every 3 secs, it isn’t even close, and let’s not forget you have each player’s personal boon spam on top of the AOE boon spam.

No one who isn’t terrible wants to focus fire the commander in a normal fight, it doesn’t make for a fun fight, well as fun as fights can be since HoT, also focusing one guy has no bearing on balance in large scale, that you have to single target to such an extent to make boon strip work, to overcome the ridiculous level of damage mitigation that is out there now, just shows how broken it is, and is also one of the reasons despite having a “melee” meta back that many wanted, players and guilds are still leaving the game, because if makes fights as boring as hell, it is basically the equivalent to the first season of PvP where bunkers bored everyone to death.

zinkz.7045:

sephiroth.4217:

It’s imbalanced because of player choice…

Looking at this mathematically:

6 Mesmers:
5 are playing boon share, 1 is playing boon strip. This alone naturally creates the illusion that there is an imbalance as there are 5 mesmers overproducing boons for 1 mesmer to handle stripping alone, it does make it feel like it’s not worth it because you’re over shadowed by boon share.

Side note: There is plenty of boon strip roles, they produce less bags but there are option to play it if one doesn’t mind missing out on tagging more enemies and being mostly group support. It’s like playing the dedicated Water Elementalist, no bags but you know you’re being useful.

Even if you ARE the ONLY boon stripping person or boon corrupting person in your group, you can still be a royal pain by focusing the driver… Have you ever seen a driver go to push just as his stab was stripped?

Not really, there is simply vastly more boon spam in the game than boon strip.

Let’s start with the differences in skills, a lot of boon generation is AOE, where as really all you have for AOE boon strip is null field or well corruption, so generation > ripping in this respect.

Then you have that boon generation skills are far more common amongst the classes, outside of necro and mesmer you basically have nothing useful for boon strip (and even some of mesmer boon rip that can be used in PvP like the rip on shatter trait is useless in large scale WvW), where as every class has at least some easily available AOE boon generation.

Then you have the difference in application, take nullfield as you mention mesmers, it has a 32 sec cooldown, meanwhile revs for instance can pump out AOE boons every 3 secs, it isn’t even close, and let’s not forget you have each player’s personal boon spam on top of the AOE boon spam.

No one who isn’t terrible wants to focus fire the commander in a normal fight, it doesn’t make for a fun fight, well as fun as fights can be since HoT, also focusing one guy has no bearing on balance in large scale, that you have to single target to such an extent to make boon strip work, to overcome the ridiculous level of damage mitigation that is out there now, just shows how broken it is, and is also one of the reasons despite having a “melee” meta back that many wanted, players and guilds are still leaving the game, because if makes fights as boring as hell, it is basically the equivalent to the first season of PvP where bunkers bored everyone to death.

There’s a few more boon rips available to Mesmer that you forgot to mention and many other classes but that’s ok because it looks like your perspective is a general metabuild scenario in 60v60v55 threeway SMC fight, which would make us both right but in a larger scale.

25 players are playing the meta, 1 isn’t.
25 players playing boonshare – 1 playing boon strip, too much to handle 25:1 ratio

With regards to resistance, change it so it only negates damaging conditions. Done.

sephiroth.4217:

It’s imbalanced because of player choice…

Players barely have a choice, if the want to stand a chance. If you don’t run a boon share/spam composition yourself, you will just get mowed down by meta zergs of the same size, regardless of how much boon strip you take.
And there is only one single way for some kind of mass boon remove and that’s lich form 5, a skill with huge cooldown (180 seconds) and very obvious animation, so easy to counter, and even if it can work, you still need boon spam yourself to keep the necros alive. Other boon remove skills are either single target only (even if you can spike someone down, he can get ressed instantly) and/or remove only 1 or 2 boons, so you have to be super lucky to get rid of the important ones that are covered by a bunch of other boons.

Frozen.1347:

sephiroth.4217:

It’s imbalanced because of player choice…

Players barely have a choice, if the want to stand a chance. If you don’t run a boon share/spam composition yourself, you will just get mowed down by meta zergs of the same size, regardless of how much boon strip you take.
And there is only one single way for some kind of mass boon remove and that’s lich form 5, a skill with huge cooldown (180 seconds) and very obvious animation, so easy to counter, and even if it can work, you still need boon spam yourself to keep the necros alive. Other boon remove skills are either single target only (even if you can spike someone down, he can get ressed instantly) and/or remove only 1 or 2 boons, so you have to be super lucky to get rid of the important ones that are covered by a bunch of other boons.

If you say so.

Well the problem isn’t so much that boons are too spammy (they are), but that resistance is too good. It could use a duration buff overall but also just reduce the effectiveness of condis by 33%, basically making it a condi version of protection.

Stack all the boons you want with as much boon duration you got. That just means you’re doing less dps and have less survivablity. Cause when my group stuns you, srips your stab, pulls you apart, corrupts and strips all those boons, you’re gonna die in seconds.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Stack all the boons you want with as much boon duration you got. That just means you’re doing less dps and have less survivablity. Cause when my group stuns you, srips your stab, pulls you apart, corrupts and strips all those boons, you’re gonna die in seconds.

There’s too many ways for the boonshare meta to deal with corrupts, not to mention there’s only 1 class that can actually “corrupt” boons.

Quickness and alacrity basically double a groups DPS output. Groups running the boonshare are tanky and do tons of DPS. The only real way to counter it is run boonshare yourself.