Guild Wars 2

after i saw today a thief trolling a group and killing some of the ppl with just cloak and dagger and 3-4k dmg per attack i think that cheese need to removed from game.

so as suggestion remove dmg-coefficient and lower initcost, then its just a utility or make revealed every time u come out of stealth even without attack. so its not possible to chain attacks that stealth u.

discuss.

invisibility =/= invincibility

If he’s doing 3-4k on cloak and dagger just pressure and kill them, he’s d/d so he can’t stealth unless he’s in your face.

Omg lol you basically have to be afk to die to a thief using cloak and dagget only.

cnd is melee….you kind of have to stand still and do nothing for it to land so well….

I used to think that it was that easy too, then I tried a thief and really it’s not that easy.

People are going to find a way to complain about stealth no matter which way it’s used. If he’s doing 4k damage then he is most likely full glass cannon. Not only that, but he has to be next to you to use CnD. Not hard to figure out how to kill him dpending on which class you are.

ok, with revealed and all that you were being hit 1 time every 4 seconds for 3-4k damage? That doesnt seem to hard to deal with. Be glad he didn’t hit a backstab.

Count to 3 → dodge

Here’s how to beat any class: Play it a bit and learn how it works. Denying a thief their CnD isn’t nearly as hard as you think for most classes.

Brick Tamland.6507:

People are going to find a way to complain about stealth no matter which way it’s used. If he’s doing 4k damage then he is most likely full glass cannon. Not only that, but he has to be next to you to use CnD. Not hard to figure out how to kill him dpending on which class you are.

so then please tell me how i am should kill him with shortbow on ranger and axe/horn? cant find any aoe. and to clarify the other ppl spammed aoe, but it didnt helped. how u deal with such bullkitten after a fight with skills on cooldown? some ppl also dont has permavigor and can only dodge at a certain time frame. wvw has a lot of ai everywhere. so its not hard for him to hit that. and he hit my pet some time too, im sure he was expecting that i dodge.

im not dumb, i play spvp and know to handle thiefs, but in wvw thats total different matter.

but overall nice to see your lack of understanding balance.

Dee Jay.2460:

Count to 3 -> dodge

Yup. The timing is really predictable. If you are having trouble with the timing, play a thief for a bit.

if the thief uses a speed hack then cnd becomes very deadly. Not saying most thief use speed hacks but I have fought a few that does.

how i said. i tried to dodge. i has played thief in spvp in tourney with different specs, i know the build and the weekness of the builds.

at first i was thinking “oh a troll” but then i realized the cnd attacks hurts and i was low on health with health on cooldown. so i tried to dodge but that only resulted that the thief was 1 moment a tiny second more visible until he start hitting my pet for some time. after a few dodges i was out of energy and used my heal and the others spammed aoe at some places. i moved to see what he is doing. then he starts hitting others and at some point he was back to me and attacked me again. point is he got be down and finished me. i couldnt do anything to counter that and the thief where only visible for 1-2 frames.

i has nothing against stealth, while its broken in core design, but that is just cheese. except aoe-classes there is nearly 0 counter play possible. image i where a berzerker. even perma vigor would not help in that case against a expert cheese player. im fine with the trolling aspect, but then the dmg should be highly reduced. or to put it simple remove the spaming effect via revelead.

Cynz.9437:

cnd is melee….you kind of have to stand still and do nothing for it to land so well….

because mobs/npcs use leap skills and preemptive dodges to make sure a thief can’t land a CnD and won’t go right back to their original spot when he re enters stealth.

If you cast CnD only, and time perfect, you can only be visable for split second.

If you were moving and you let this happen over and over, you are terrible and deserve to die.

The end.

Some people killed by cloack and dagger.
It’s the beginning of a joke? o.O

hooma.9642:

after i saw today a thief trolling a group and killing some of the ppl with just cloak and dagger and 3-4k dmg per attack i think that cheese need to removed from game.

so as suggestion remove dmg-coefficient and lower initcost, then its just a utility or make revealed every time u come out of stealth even without attack. so its not possible to chain attacks that stealth u.

discuss.

Everything is cheese if you get beat by it right? Get over yourself.

Mordecai.6318:

hooma.9642:

after i saw today a thief trolling a group and killing some of the ppl with just cloak and dagger and 3-4k dmg per attack i think that cheese need to removed from game.

so as suggestion remove dmg-coefficient and lower initcost, then its just a utility or make revealed every time u come out of stealth even without attack. so its not possible to chain attacks that stealth u.

discuss.

Everything is cheese if you get beat by it right? Get over yourself.

only if no counterplay is possible. u cant say spamming random aoe is counterplay? esp if u play a build with 0 aoe. or why do u think perma stealth get nerfed every time?

Omnitek.3876:

If you cast CnD only, and time perfect, you can only be visable for split second.

If you were moving and you let this happen over and over, you are terrible and deserve to die.

The end.

+50% speed in stealth… so please give me a something so i can move faster. esp if u havent the +25% runspeed equiped like me. i switch it before a fight.

hooma.9642:

Mordecai.6318:

hooma.9642:

after i saw today a thief trolling a group and killing some of the ppl with just cloak and dagger and 3-4k dmg per attack i think that cheese need to removed from game.

so as suggestion remove dmg-coefficient and lower initcost, then its just a utility or make revealed every time u come out of stealth even without attack. so its not possible to chain attacks that stealth u.

discuss.

Everything is cheese if you get beat by it right? Get over yourself.

only if no counterplay is possible. u cant say spamming random aoe is counterplay? esp if u play a build with 0 aoe. or why do u think perma stealth get nerfed every time?

cnd → 6 ini lost 2x cnd = 80% no ini
cnd animation is slow and good visible
cnd = melee ability

so turn your monitor on or use legs

Writetyper.1985:

invisibility ~= invincibility

Fixed it for you.

Trego.6182:

hooma.9642:

Mordecai.6318:

hooma.9642:

after i saw today a thief trolling a group and killing some of the ppl with just cloak and dagger and 3-4k dmg per attack i think that cheese need to removed from game.

so as suggestion remove dmg-coefficient and lower initcost, then its just a utility or make revealed every time u come out of stealth even without attack. so its not possible to chain attacks that stealth u.

discuss.

Everything is cheese if you get beat by it right? Get over yourself.

only if no counterplay is possible. u cant say spamming random aoe is counterplay? esp if u play a build with 0 aoe. or why do u think perma stealth get nerfed every time?

cnd -> 6 ini lost 2x cnd = 80% no ini
cnd animation is slow and good visible
cnd = melee ability

so turn your monitor on or use legs

oh my god. another pro thief who has no glue about his class and several builds and feels he must throw his 50cent. yeah a thief build to troll/kill this way would never ever use infusion of shadow and/or patience. never ever, why should he do it?

“cnd animation is slow and good visible” shows me u hasnt read anything in this thread except the title or would u please explain how im supposed to see the cnd animation casted during stealth?

hooma.9642:

Trego.6182:

hooma.9642:

Mordecai.6318:

hooma.9642:

after i saw today a thief trolling a group and killing some of the ppl with just cloak and dagger and 3-4k dmg per attack i think that cheese need to removed from game.

so as suggestion remove dmg-coefficient and lower initcost, then its just a utility or make revealed every time u come out of stealth even without attack. so its not possible to chain attacks that stealth u.

discuss.

Everything is cheese if you get beat by it right? Get over yourself.

only if no counterplay is possible. u cant say spamming random aoe is counterplay? esp if u play a build with 0 aoe. or why do u think perma stealth get nerfed every time?

cnd -> 6 ini lost 2x cnd = 80% no ini
cnd animation is slow and good visible
cnd = melee ability

so turn your monitor on or use legs

oh my god. another pro thief who has no glue about his class and several builds and feels he must throw his 50cent. yeah a thief build to troll/kill this way would never ever use infusion of shadow and/or patience. never ever, why should he do it?

“cnd animation is slow and good visible” shows me u hasnt read anything in this thread except the title or would u please explain how im supposed to see the cnd animation casted during stealth?

1…2…Dodge CnD missed 6 ini wasted.
what I do on my necro when I come up against a x/d thief

many ways to counter a thief they are just not as obvious as fighting other classes.

strafe when he’s stealthed so he can’t get behind you.
anticipate his attacks and use dodges and blocks
use CC’s to control his movement
knock/pull him out of refuge if you have a skill for it
certain class-specific techniques work very well also

put conditions on him before he stealths

hooma.9642:

Mike.5193:

hooma.9642:

Solstice.1097:

many ways to counter a thief they are just not as obvious as fighting other classes.

strafe when he’s stealthed so he can’t get behind you.
anticipate his attacks and use dodges and blocks
use CC’s to control his movement
knock/pull him out of refuge if you have a skill for it
certain class-specific techniques work very well also

put conditions on him before he stealths

please read the thread.

Please get some skill and learn to deal with different classes other than your own. God forbid you run across one of my builds that are based on my understanding and usage of the classes and not the meta, you would probably think I am hacking or something. Every class has CC and every class uses AOE to some extent. If you don’t want to take them, don’t whine about things these would prevent. That is like whining about a lack of survivability running around in zerker gear.

please got some brain. yeah all classes have some aoe and cc. BUT not all BUILDS! i dont has access to all my skills if im running a certain build. so your whole argumentation is just false. and u hasnt read the thread or u had noticed that he used my pet or the pets in wvw as stealth bringing target if he noticed i was dodging. and even then all it did was delaying him 1 second. every ranger has some kitten pet that cant dodge and act as a source of stealth kitten.

You have 3 options in this scenario:
1) Keep crying and getting stomped into the ground.
2) Build with some CC.
3) Stop playing GW2.

My power/crit ranger build has 8 forms of CC. My condition/trap ranger build has 3 AOE fields and 4 forms of CC.

Protip: If you don’t build for CC, at bring a wolf as one of your 2 pets. AOE fear is great.

Several postings that were against the rules of the forum have been removed. Please keep in mind that if you want to discuss topics on the forum, you have to do so in a constructive and friendly way. Thank you.

op you suggesting to nerf cnd, others nerf stealth, backstab, shadowstep, They also want to lower thief damage. So what do you really want? After dec10, s/d and d/p thieves will be less popular, so you basicly going ahead and asking d/d nerf? When you making such a suggestions, could you please offer something to compensate nerf? Thank you.

hooma.9642:

after i saw today a thief trolling a group and killing some of the ppl with just cloak and dagger and 3-4k dmg per attack i think that cheese need to removed from game.

so as suggestion remove dmg-coefficient and lower initcost, then its just a utility or make revealed every time u come out of stealth even without attack. so its not possible to chain attacks that stealth u.

discuss.

Ever done pve? Because in Pve, there is the so called “3 second rule”, that is, when a boss starts charging an attack, dodge roll in about 3 seconds. Now the funny thing is that the 3 second rule also applies to c&d spam. When the thief tries to chain c&d, count to 3, dodge, and it is quaranteed that the c&d chaining pauses.
Unlike against d/p perma stealth nonsense, there IS valid counter play against d/d type thief builds. Hell, send me a PM in game anytime and I’ll show you the basic tricks.

edit: I see you are a ranger. That complicates things a little due to the crappy AI. So do not only dodge, but also swap pet when the thief is about to use c&d (~three seconds after his last c&d.). Since you apparently use short bow, you shouldn’t run out of evades: quick shot is on fairly short cl. If you have a wolf, try to use the fear skill at this moment.
If there are npc mobs nearby and the thief chains stealth from them, you can use your axe #1 to attack the thief while he is in stealth: attack a mob and the axes should bounce to the thief. While this doesn’t deal that much damage, it still puts up some pressure.

I hold my own against thieves on my mesmer, as long as they don’t surprise attack me. Thieves aren’t terribly hard when you see them coming.

The only time I find them truly annoying is when they attack while stealthed from behind, and then laugh/dance on your body. Especially if they have a buddy. What they did wasn’t a fair engagement, which is fine in the “rules of war,” but it’s still really darn annoying. :P

Get permastealth nerfed and it will be far more balanced.

These kind of threads goes to show what little Knowledge people have of thieves and our viable builds.
You can easily avoid a C&D, which burns alot of our initiative compared to a Dagger/Pistol thief that has an Smoke Field that enables us to stealth, that is truly “Cheese” mode unlike the more ‘Niche’ D/D Thieves.