Guild Wars 2

does your guild do commander sniping in zerg fights?
i saw a video by blackgate’s guild and they use engineers to pull commanders into their zerg and kill them before charging into the enemy zerg.

is this a good strategy and is it easy to do?

videos here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhTF9q8uciQ

does your zerg/guild usually have a deputy commander? someone who will tag up if the original commander is dead?
or does the zerg just fall apart once the commander dies?

i know the video is at least credible since that is indeed HIRE’s and SE’s commander they are pulling in the middle of the video

If you kill enemy commander enemy actually can fight back and kill you. Much easier kill enemy when they follow commander like sheeps.

Is that really the commander? They get ganked a few feet and the heavies just hang back in the zerg and watch their commander die? No leaps, no banners, no stuns?

Guess it’s T1 fights so can’t expect much.

well since i am in TC so I know the HIRE and SE guild commanders they pulled are real.
cant say for JQ since i dont know one char from another kitten.

This tactic might work on some servers.
On others it just pulls the melee train your way.
If not prepared for it that can kill you.
It all depends on the commander and his reaction on it.
And his reaction can be to let him die and follow the 2nd in command.

We have had snipers(pewpew rangers) that only target the enemy commander.

Tbh these tactic works when the blob is a bunch of sheep and you need the Sheppard to lead the way. If the server your fighting is more like a wolf pack. then eny of them can step up and lead the pack.

So is it a mindless blob com dead = they will spread out and lose the fight.
Is it a organised blob com dead the fight continue’s.

It all depends on the blob/guild and its commander/commanders.

You can’t be sure this is the real commanders with tags on.
Even if "yes" this is not guild-raid commanders, but blinded_stupid_randoms commanders.
So turn off your pathos about "what are you doing if your commander are dying?" - our commander are not dying before our raid.
Also, good raid ALWAYS following his commander - after your pull you’ll found yourself steamrolled in 1-2 seconds after pull.
I even don’t say about 99% uptime of stability in good raids.

Behind that, you have made a video about killing some random players with 5 or more teammates. So skilled!
Also, you are asura ><

well i dont mind you dissing the video making guy since it isnt me.
like i said I’m from TC. that video guy is from BG =D

It is a very good strategy and can roll the dices on your favor, is it easy now ? no it is not since Anet decided to follow the suggestion of karma trains and noobs to remove the commander buff, or atleast make it invisible to enemy forces.

With my Mesmer I used to moa the enemy commanders a lot, but that alone wont win a fight, it just gives you an upper hand.

Back in the old days of real life killing the leaders first was considered dishonorable. Guess in the age of drones people enjoy dishonorable military tactics.

In low gameplay if you kill the enemy commander they dont know what happened and run. In high leagues there is a very good commander and the others know they not that good so they run.
In medium its a little more morphic. They know how the things work but not specialized, mostly somebody take over the command if the original commander is down.
Btw commander hunt is very imporzant. If you kill a commander in a pug team you win. If you kill the commander in a high end team they retreat. In normal guilds they start to discuss what to do

knowing the zerg get’s disorganized when the commander dies, why the hell wouldn’t Itry and kill the commander….come on people what is this, “oooh don’t kill the commander we don’t want to win we just want to mash keys and see what happens”

don’t die if your a commander, use 2 3 4 commanders and if we are going to be historical…commanders are in the backlines coordinating the battle not on the front lines. adapt your tactics if ya keep getting sniped.

The amount of groups I see in T1 that rely on pin snipe to win a fight is amazing. A proper timed veiled push negates their pin snipe.

It’s BG, you’ll have to forgive them, they can’t win an open field fight without cheeseball tactics, sort of like how TC needs 3x your numbers or a superior arrow cart for every 5 players coming at them.

That said, I notice when I counter pin snipe BG (I never start it, but I always end it when Im on) they fall to pieces immediately and their zerg disappears off the map. It’s pretty hilarious.

I wonder if the “body double” meta will become a thing.

ArchonWing.9480:

I wonder if the “body double” meta will become a thing.

It has. It’s of limited effectiveness due to the difficulty in getting players who are exactly the same rank, however. Still easy to tell which blue haired Charr is driving.

nobody doing synchronized killshots? (i didn’t watch the entire video)

Had that issue on a guild I used to run with. There response was have every guardian in there hammer train run JI. if the cmdr got yanked htere entire hammer train smashed immediatly into the enemy gank squad. Worked most of the time. Scary as hell to watch.

wish.3102:

It’s BG, you’ll have to forgive them, they can’t win an open field fight without cheeseball tactics, sort of like how TC needs 3x your numbers or a superior arrow cart for every 5 players coming at them.

That said, I notice when I counter pin snipe BG (I never start it, but I always end it when Im on) they fall to pieces immediately and their zerg disappears off the map. It’s pretty hilarious.

I know…because JQ would never pin snipe. Except, here is Silver from TWL (on JQ) pin sniping the KnT commander with a snipe group that includes multiple pulls.

let the comment wars begin!

Killing a commander is legit tactic. It has been there since years ago.

Sniping is a legit tactic imo, all part of the meta. Counter sniping has become more of a thing lately. We have some pin snipers in JQ but thats just their own thing, not really an “official” tactic. Not sayin we’re morally better or something, just not really our style.

Thrashbarg.9820:

ArchonWing.9480:

I wonder if the “body double” meta will become a thing.

It has. It’s of limited effectiveness due to the difficulty in getting players who are exactly the same rank, however. Still easy to tell which blue haired Charr is driving.

What? No way!

What’s the different between having a commander pull sniper and having periphery/gank quad? If the tag doesn’t have stab uptime for this to happen in big blobby messes (seriously how do they not have stability with so many people?) then they will get whats coming to them. Maybe they will learn to use boons to counter crowd control one day.

My friend and I do this. We run a power necro with corrupt boon and a full venom share thief. We can down the commander 75% of the time and have done it coutless times. We have a problem getting him stopped before the banners fall from heaven.

Soon we will recruit a hammer medi gaurd and a stealth thief
Once we down the commander the med gaurd will teleport punt it to the thief hiding in shadow refuge kekekeke

Hope to make a video soon!

aquabat.2986:

What’s the different between having a commander pull sniper and having periphery/gank quad? If the tag doesn’t have stab uptime for this to happen in big blobby messes (seriously how do they not have stability with so many people?) then they will get whats coming to them. Maybe they will learn to use boons to counter crowd control one day.

My necro corrupt boon says you can’t have stability

Commander sniping is nearly always done in t1, its almost like a game between them because many of the well known commanders are friendly with each other across the 3 servers. Its funny though watching an enemy zerg completely collapse after their commander is melted. But most of the time here its done for fun they joke about it in ts about the friendly trolling the commanders are giving each other in private messages.

It is a valid tactic regardless, Ive seen it completely scatter enemy zergs, wont name guilds, but some really well known ones can just start running around like a chicken with its head cut off, its pretty funny.

It’s a valid tactic but the more respected commanders discourage it.

Largely commanders dislike it because it slows fights down. Once a commander knows they are being pin sniped they spend a lot of time running back and forth waiting for veil, mass invisi etc to be up, before they push into a fight.

The only time its encourage is more towards the joking side things when both sides are aware of whats happening and just looking for lol’s.

Hurtappl.6405:

My friend and I do this. We run a power necro with corrupt boon and a full venom share thief. We can down the commander 75% of the time and have done it coutless times. We have a problem getting him stopped before the banners fall from heaven.

Soon we will recruit a hammer medi gaurd and a stealth thief
Once we down the commander the med gaurd will teleport punt it to the thief hiding in shadow refuge kekekeke

Hope to make a video soon!

Just place corrosive poison cloud on him after he downs to pulse poison, that stops the banners reviving him. Banner isn’t necessarily a revive, it actually just gives him a huge heal so if he’s poisoned one banner won’t be enough to get him up. Then use death shroud 2 to blink to him and plague stomp ( after pressing f to stomp activate plague immediately after n it’ll continue the stomp with stability and God mode toughness). Happy hunting :P

Valid tactic, the idea being to press the commander enough to make him hesitate. Giving your group a (supposed) advantage. I have seen it work beautifully and fail miserably, as some have suggested a lot of times it brings the hammer train to you if you use a pull or try to sit on the downed commander.

Corrupt Boon, Moa, Kill Shot, Engi pull, etc.

if the commander dies.. and release.. i always tag up to the same color of the commanders dot, to keep the flow of battle going.

Players are affected if they are fighting and the blue dot that was with the,m is no longer there.. heck, even if i’m commanding and die, i don’t release.. i rather the blue dot be in the heart of the fight instead of back ay the waypoint

I see this happen a lot when one or two particular commanders lose too frequently and the salt flows like Fabios hair in that sweet spring wind. I won’t meantion any of those guilds names but the sodium uptake spikes and so does the sniping…….

wish.3102:

It’s BG, you’ll have to forgive them, they can’t win an open field fight without cheeseball tactics, sort of like how TC needs 3x your numbers or a superior arrow cart for every 5 players coming at them.

That said, I notice when I counter pin snipe BG (I never start it, but I always end it when Im on) they fall to pieces immediately and their zerg disappears off the map. It’s pretty hilarious.

Switch to a low sodium diet. You’re comments will be less salty.

Yes, pin sniping has been a thing since launch. There’s nothing dishonorable about it either. No reason why the person telling everyone to fight shouldn’t be the first person to suffer the consequences of attacking another. Any “leader” expecting to be last are the dishonorable ones.

Picking whom to target is a bit of an art form in itself. Once spotted, I’ll call out the character in map chat so others know whom it is. If it’s not the pin it’s likely to be a person in his melee train. It’s really not that hard when you end up fighting the same characters daily. Though I do reserve it for times when I feel the opposition needs an attitude adjustment. Say when getting 2v’d, after a while it’s time to say “Enough!”. That’s when I’m going to snipe the pin or swap to my Mesmer and Moa until they relent.

This is about the only mass PvP game where commander sniping has been accepted as a valid tactic. It should be considered highly bad form and often ruins a good fight.
When a commander dies a zerg often scatters, you might catch a few but you miss a hell of a lot more than you catch. Why ruin a good fight like that?

If GvGs resorted to commander sniping the best guild would just be the one with the most commanders/drivers.

The key is having the commander actually be surrounded by the other players so that the commander is “obstructed” when it should go off. Another option is running Warrior with Last Stand which has boon stripping as a counter too but by that time the commander is typically well aware of being targeted.

But in the end, I foresee ANet eventually nerfing Engineer Magnet pull soon (i.e. removing the unblockable component/making it a projectile like Scorpion Wire or Spectral Grasp with a travel time) and having it do damage instead.

The problem child in the room is Magnet pull.

Artaz.3819:

But in the end, I foresee ANet eventually nerfing Engineer Magnet pull soon (i.e. removing the unblockable component/making it a projectile like Scorpion Wire or Spectral Grasp with a travel time) and having it do damage instead.

The problem child in the room is Magnet pull.

It is already longer cast time than both, a longer cooldown than SW, has a blatant animation and graphic, not a combo finisher, doesn’t apply conditions as well as life force. It isn’t overpowered by any means compared to similar abilities, they are different. Advantages and disadvantages for all three to use in practice. What would be the point of having all 3 professions have identical abilities? That is just boring and unimaginative and doesn’t promote situational uses and profession viability/variety.

Artaz.3819:

The key is having the commander actually be surrounded by the other players so that the commander is “obstructed” when it should go off. Another option is running Warrior with Last Stand which has boon stripping as a counter too but by that time the commander is typically well aware of being targeted.

But in the end, I foresee ANet eventually nerfing Engineer Magnet pull soon (i.e. removing the unblockable component/making it a projectile like Scorpion Wire or Spectral Grasp with a travel time) and having it do damage instead.

The problem child in the room is Magnet pull.

No problem at all, they don’t balance for WvW hence the laughable class balance and tedious unchanging meta, magnet pull has a very obvious animation, competent PvP players usually dodge it, it is fine.

That a basic component of this game like reacting to animations is basically broken in WvW zergs and dumbed down to, avoid the wells, etc so commanders can’t actually spot the magnet pull, is an issue with WvW and how the mechanics of this game do not scale with numbers, they just break, rather than a problem with magnet pull.

If its an even fight its kind of cheap and ruins the fight. If you’re outnumbered like most of the cases in the video then its a great tactic.

Its not as hard as you would think to spot a commander. Decent guilds once they realized they are getting sniped (and pulls are super obvious) will try to do things to mitigate (like communicating better instead of just being a pin out front yelling obvious things).

There is nothing you can do about it, embrace it and adapt.

eugenstash.8610:

You’re comment

I am not a comment.

i don’t see any problem with commander sniping. if the other side got disarrayed because their commander get shot, it is their problem for not having second in command.

valid tactic.

I don’t see why the commander would ever be off limits, even if during an even fight. If he’s red he’s dead. Bonus points for dragging a single guy from his group of 20 gaurdians as far as I’m concerned.

Darkhaven’s commanders often tell us to target their commander, but alot of the time it only worked against GoM. Once the com was dead they’d spread out and were easily killed.
Against nearly every other server we’ve tried this on, this has not worked.

In my experience though, it depends on the server and how they’re used to being led. Most seem pretty competent without their commander. Some need to have their hand held during a fight. I am curious though if it’s maybe because of ts or mumble or vent that these other servers seem more successful, as they may still be commanding while they are dead and giving their zerg direction through voice command.

well i see 90% of the posts here did not answer my questions >.<

I think most of you are concerned about whether it is right or wrong to commander snipe rather than whether it is a good strategy/easy to execute/what are the effects on the enemy zerg

Personally I think it is legit. You cut the head of and the rest die with it.

EremiteAngel.9765:

Personally I think it is legit. You cut the head of and the rest die with it.

Unless your guild is a hydra—cut off one head and two more shall grow.

The commander is never offlimits, but the idea of having a dedicated 10 man gank team for the driver just shows that the force using it obviously needs a crutch. I remember once when fighting DAWNs map blob in OCX being moaed, boon corrupt, pulled into the melee train and sniped by a bunch of rangers. This kinda stuff is common as hell in T1 nowdays, and there isn’t much you can do about it – and there is no point complaining about it either as its mostly the pugs (not guilds) now doing it.

It sucks, but you just have to adapt by not overextending as a driver, having backups in case you get sniped hardcore and running some defensive utilities like reflective walls in your comp. Your team shouldn’t fold if you drop because of snipe anyways.

Crius.5487:

EremiteAngel.9765:

Personally I think it is legit. You cut the head of and the rest die with it.

Unless your guild is a hydra—cut off one head and two more shall grow.

you have a good point…but I have only seen this happen once on TC…in 1yr+ of game play…
the commander dropped and immediately a new commander tag popped up…once…in 1 yr+

EremiteAngel.9765:

well i see 90% of the posts here did not answer my questions >.<

I think most of you are concerned about whether it is right or wrong to commander snipe rather than whether it is a good strategy/easy to execute/what are the effects on the enemy zerg

Personally I think it is legit. You cut the head of and the rest die with it.

Hello,

It usually breaks enemy zergs, both in game and in IRL medieval warfare. Kill the King/General and the enemy formation breaks. Some WvW guilds have 3-4 man teams just for this. 2-3 Warrior/Rifle with spotter.

FW