Guild Wars 2

Hello

I by no means am an expert in this subject but i would like to know from our experienced brothers and sisters here i the forum, how do you defend from being spiked down from no where, to seeing your toon on the ground with a thief about to spike you or a mesmer with 50 clones spiking you, in a zerg mesmer and thiefs are really a problem because the aoe tears them up, but if they catch you your dead , because you canot react fast enough to protect your self, i have a warrior, guardian, ele necro and a ranger that i play in www, just would like to have some advice in how to deal with the them

50 clones ?
only 3 + the mesmer himself

1. play pvp
2. ask any mesmer or thief for 1 on 1
3. practice
4. practice
5. practice
6. practice more
7. go back to WvW and relax while fighting against stealth

thiefs are not so bad unless ur facing a dagger/pistol thief.
with thiefs just dont fight them at spot they want u to be, im a thief if i face a D/P thief i just dont let them catch me in their hide, i keep my distance so i can make first move.

if they dont get their first move off 90% of the thiefs run off like kitten.. ( im no D/P thief btw i dont sit back on hide)

mesmers lol i dunno i just burst them down if i get the chance but it happends more often just like u i get wrecked out of nowhere within 2 hits (feels like it atleast) and im done.

mesmers are just super OP atm

as for zerg fights i dont think its the thief that bothers you there, unless i read wrong but u complain about thief there also..
while i can tell u how i fight when i follow commander (im not a amazing thief either) i have to avoid majority of red circles on the ground i cant walk tru them like most of my blob.. i have to use my short bow because moment i use my sword/dagger and get in range a lil to early i get melted down by mindless staff spam from guardians..
if i run at front line i get kitten d by rangers using long shot or something..

its not exactly a joy to be a thief and running with the blob..
i might be doing stuff wrong on a thief in blob fight i dont know that, im just trying to stay behind the enemy blob, trying to stop the enemy solo players to go back to their commander.

1. Dodge. Dodge. Dodge.

2. If mesmer, use moa on thieves.

3. If not a mesmer or thief, use stealth traps.

4. Channelled spell skills will continue to target the mes/thief even while invis. Use them.

5. Dodge.

The main problem i see with thieves is that they have too much options for resetting a fight. It’s to rewarding to fight with blinds, shadow step and perma stealth.
That should have been reworked a long time ago.

Another problem which isn’t that big but still annoying is the option to gain stealth by hitting walls and that makes thief hunting inside towers or keeps pretty boring.

PU Mesmers are stupidly op for 1v1 atm, especially with perplexity runes.

Jayne.9251:

1. Dodge. Dodge. Dodge.

2. If mesmer, use moa on thieves.

3. If not a mesmer or thief, use stealth traps.

4. Channelled spell skills will continue to target the mes/thief even while invis. Use them.

5. Dodge.

Wait what? What Mes/Thief is going to allow you to sit there and plant stealth traps? :x

gebrechen.5643:

The main problem i see with thieves is that they have too much options for resetting a fight. It’s to rewarding to fight with blinds, shadow step and perma stealth.
That should have been reworked a long time ago.

Another problem which isn’t that big but still annoying is the option to gain stealth by hitting walls and that makes thief hunting inside towers or keeps pretty boring.

PU Mesmers are stupidly op for 1v1 atm, especially with perplexity runes.

Well according to all mesmers on the forum they are just fine. Slighty underpowered if you ask them :P

There has never been a better time to put a sigil of energy on your weapons. Both sets, if you can swap. With the nerf to vigor, a DPS increase across the board, and Mesmers’ ability to load you up with every condi in the game and still lock down all of your skills (same goes for Thief/basilisk venom to a degree), ANet has made it clear that they’re encouraging shorter, burstier fights. Stability is near useless now since it can be waited out, or they can just strip it. Go for stun breaks, as many evades as possible, condi clears. Don’t blow cooldowns on clones. Take your time, wait until you can target the real Mesmer, then go to town.

It’s not going to work every time, but you’ll have a chance. Personally, I’m tired of 70-80% of all my roaming encounters being against Mesmers. If I wanted to fight AI, I’d play PvE. It’s easymode, but I can’t fault lazy players for choosing it. If there’s a build that requires minimal effort to consistently win, people will use it.

gennyt.3428:

Jayne.9251:

1. Dodge. Dodge. Dodge.

2. If mesmer, use moa on thieves.

3. If not a mesmer or thief, use stealth traps.

4. Channelled spell skills will continue to target the mes/thief even while invis. Use them.

5. Dodge.

Wait what? What Mes/Thief is going to allow you to sit there and plant stealth traps? :x

I do it all the time

Then I stand on the trap and wait for them to be unable to resist trying to gank me. It’s all so fun

As a condition Mesmer i can tell you that i rely mostly on my confusion. (although the other conditions are very important) Because confusion is both defense and offense at the same time. I kill most of my target with confusion. So when fighting a condition mesmer (or any condition build) look at your conditions, if you have confusion, try to clear it off and than attack. Don’t go in and spawn skills (that’s what the mesmer want you to do) cause you will die.

If I am roaming and come across mesmer or thief I will fight…

If they use a skilless build such as condition PU perplex/torment mes or condition thief, I go to options, select log out and play PvP.

T2 is currently full of those builds and what’s worse is that yesterday I witnesses 3 PU condition staff mesmers from YB gank 1 person then proceeded to jump and /laugh on him/her like it took skill

SNIEVES.3964:

Hello

I by no means am an expert in this subject but i would like to know from our experienced brothers and sisters here i the forum, how do you defend from being spiked down from no where,

I practiced a lot and now I can see when I’m going to die, survive for 5 seconds, 10 if I am lucky then get killed. Occasionally I win, but that’s only when they panic. You have to try to hit them hard, so;

• if you’re not PvP spec you are cannon fodder for thieves.
• Ironically, if you ARE PvP spec, you’ll get creamed by the zerg.

Bottom line: Thieves don’t have to change from their PvP spec to be effective in WvW. Everybody else does. And that’s when they die. Even more.

It is the stealth system that is broken. You lose target and do not regain it when they stealth. Meanwhile the stealth player has you targeted the entire time. So the time you can get them targeted they can hide again….So they get free shot after free shot on you.

Its a great design that utilizes lag to the classes advantage. Just like the beer commercial. Brilliant!

SNIEVES.3964:

Hello

I by no means am an expert in this subject but i would like to know from our experienced brothers and sisters here i the forum, how do you defend from being spiked down from no where, to seeing your toon on the ground with a thief about to spike you or a mesmer with 50 clones spiking you, in a zerg mesmer and thiefs are really a problem because the aoe tears them up, but if they catch you your dead , because you canot react fast enough to protect your self, i have a warrior, guardian, ele necro and a ranger that i play in www, just would like to have some advice in how to deal with the them

You’ll need to be more specific, pls post your profession and build, also, do it in your profession forums, you can get some really good tips there.

Other then that, as stated above, even after you get your build for it, practice, practice, practice. Even when you get all the info you need, knowing about it and doing it correctly are 2 different things, hence again, practice.

Thieves are harmless flies these days. Watch out for burn d/d eles.

Ran into a group of 3 mesmers couple days ago, annoying as hell to have to chase them down.
Month ago ran into a group of 6 mesmers, half my screen was filled with illusions.
Month ago ran into a guild that only had mostly thieves, on reset they ran 8 thieves, a ranger, a mesmer, an engineer, and a partridge in a pear tree, perplex galore, ratwells for all.

You can go to spvp and get gud all you want, but in wvw you’ll run into groups that has multiples of the op classes, you’ll be dead unless you got stealth.

P.S lay down a stealth trap LOL, they might get revealed for a few seconds, but good luck on the insane burst these days.

Either
a) Stealth Trap and if the Thief/Mesmer sucks they will die quickly. But they have to be really bad, or somehow have all their other defensive skills (Shadowstep, Distortion.etc) on cooldown.

b) Ignore them. Not that easy since Thief in particular has great mobility and can keep chasing you. Mesmers are easier to escape from but they can burst you before you react. And if you are on a Guardian or something good luck running away.

c) If you can’t beat them, join them. I have always played Thief (they are still good although the skill floor is higher than before the patch) and also recently dusted off my Mesmer after the buffs. If everyone else abuses stealth I don’t see why you shouldn’t either.

Edit: What Xenesis said above. You can be the best player in the game or whatever but if you run into a group of 3+ you’re gonna die unless you have stealth (or you can outrun them).

And as a Thief main they (we) are still very dangerous, it’s just that you can’t face-roll anymore and expect to win or escape all the time.

Most thieves can be 1-2-3 shotted these days before they can reset. Just run from a mesmer, they’ll rarely catch you if you do.

With both thieves and mesmers, the mistake alot of people make when trying to deal with them is thinking they can win through defense, either by mitigating the damage or by healing it all back. This may well work against bad thieves and mesmers, but against good or even average ones, it won’t work.

This is because thieves and mesmers both have very strong inherent kiting ability, they can disengage fairly easily, and this means that if they’re not worried about you blowing them up in 2 seconds before they can react, then they know they can keep hitting you and hitting you and they always have the option to back off if they have to.

Therefore, the only way to win an encounter with one of these is to apply heavy pressure to them yourself. If you’re running a typical ‘zerg’ build, like a shout guardian or a staff ele, then this can be difficult to do. Thieves have nothing to fear from a shout guardian. True, it may not be an easy kill for them, and they may have to reset if they screw up, but there is basically no risk to the thief in having a try. However, a more DPS built meditation guardian…. that can be a very risky encounter for a thief. They might even decide not to fight at all.
If you’re having trouble applying damage, there’s a few things to try. First, just because they’re in stealth, doesn’t mean you don’t know where they are. It’s right behind you. Use AoE skills if you can’t get a target. Make good use of conditions, as neither of these classes are particularly good at dealing with them. Even if you’re not playing a condi-damage build, repeatedly applying cripple/chill/blind to them will seriously mess them up. Make sure you have some CC to hold them in place for a few seconds before they can run, but don’t use your CC at the start of your burst. They won’t be trying to run away at the start. Save it for the end of your burst when they’re frantically trying to get back into stealth to reset.

I am really talking here of the high-physical-burst variety of thief/mesmer. The other common variety you will encounter is the condi-bunker type of pistol/dagger thief or scepter/torch mesmer.
The pistol thief is astonishingly easy to beat once you realise that it isn’t, infact, a ranged class, but is actually a melee class. All its damage comes from either getting close enough to cloak+volley or close enough to use the torment on skill 3. Once you realise this, you can simply out-damage the thief by not allowing him to use these skills. This is provided you have a ranged weapon (ranged doesn’t have to mean a 1500 range longbow, just anything that can hit him while out of reach of melee attack). Unlike a d/p or s/d thief, a p/d thief does not have much ability to close the gap to you.
With the condi mesmer, honestly, its not worth the bother. If you choose not to fight, there’s actually nothing a condi mesmer can do to stop you simply walking away, because all their damage (confusion + torment on counter) relies on you trying to fight back. If you do choose to fight, if the mesmer is any good he should win, unless you use a build specifically designed to counter him, like a diamond-skin ele.

aspirine.5839:

gebrechen.5643:

The main problem i see with thieves is that they have too much options for resetting a fight. It’s to rewarding to fight with blinds, shadow step and perma stealth.
That should have been reworked a long time ago.

Another problem which isn’t that big but still annoying is the option to gain stealth by hitting walls and that makes thief hunting inside towers or keeps pretty boring.

PU Mesmers are stupidly op for 1v1 atm, especially with perplexity runes.

Well according to all mesmers on the forum they are just fine. Slighty underpowered if you ask them :P

Ofcourse the mesmer mains will down play, several mesmers i know just laugh in TS at how broken thier class is now, 40+ seconds of stealth and they can jsut walk up to and completely blow you up, if don/t know/see them coming as they can stealth long before you see them you would usually not be casting a skill etc, I can’t see him and BANG i’m dead and this is just a power build with no perp runes.

My war has 23k HP and 3k Tougness all he has to do is a full shatter (inc the shatter on himself) and GS skill rotation and i’m dead. Why did this PU get a buff when it only affects WvW when we all know Anet does’nt balance for WvW. What possible application does it have in PvE considering very few people play it in PvE.

Not to mention the PU condi builds are even worse coz of the easy clone generation and MASSIVE condi pressure, even if you do hit them they take almost no damage coz of rediculous protection uptime.

Unless you’re a roamer looking specifically for small fights I’d quite honestly just ignore mesmers and thiefs. Its rarely worth while trying to engage them as they tend to be set up for lots of stealth and even if you are able to get the better of them they will just reset the fight by stealthing and getting some distance. It just isnt worth the time unless your out to test your 1v1 skill.

That being said, if you get jumped on your way to an objective, try to dodge as much of the initial burst as you can, pop your stab, use any source of swiftness and just bail for the nearest tower or group of friendlies you can find. They will soon get bored and move onto their next target.
Mesmers and Thieves just tend to pick off unsuspecting people because they know most people aren’t set up build/gear wise for proper solo fights, it makes them feel skilled even though they aren’t. Anyone can spec for max damage and just gank people, only true duels determine skill.

Go make a thief and mesmer and have a look at their weapon skills, utilities and traits. Get a feel for their playstyle. Or watch youtubes. Learn their pattern of attack and gain knowledge and excellsior!

Usually with thief do something 2-2.5 sec after they vanish. With my warrior I love to backward whirlwind GS slash. Once traited that skill’s tempo fit really well with thief getting out of invi. You can also dodge, block, hit in the air but to me that 2 to 2.5 sec rule work pretty well. On my warr I can see if I hit them with my adrenaline OR the check the small line under your weapon skill. If they are in range the small red line will change. Use the sound they make this help a lot.

I’m getting used to fight mesmer now. I don’t think I can beat a very good mesmer yet but I’m getting better. With the buff they had a flood of bad players and they kinda acted like a vaccine. A weak version of the virus that get you ready for the real deal. Sound is also super important again them since they will burst you from invi. If you ear a shattering glass sound dodge, block, invul run away. Most mesmer will start with a burst in the 2-4 first sec of the fight. Then expect a burst every 8 to 10 second. DO NOT waste your dodge/invul and manage your survivability. The longer the fight last you will feel you are getting the upper hand. This might not work VS skilled Mesmer but most of the new one are not that good after the first 30 second of the fight.

I’m an average dueller I might be wrong. :P

aspirine.5839:

Well according to all mesmers on the forum they are just fine. Slighty underpowered if you ask them :P

I played my mesmer this weekend in wvw. Standard PU with Perplexity Runes. So, yeah, let them talk.

Yeah Stealth is really bad in this game. Anet doesn’t realize it though. They actually increased it with the latest patch lol.

I can’t tell from your OP if you want to roam or if you’re just trying to get back to your group.

• If you want to roam you’ve got to build for it first. Then like others have said above you’ve got to practice. And I’d still just run from Mes they’re stupidly strong at the moment.

• If you’re getting ganked while running back to your group then the only thing you can really do is to zoom all the way out on the camera and keep panning around to spot them before they can stealth and gank you. Maybe switch to something that gives you speed until you meet up with your group.

AkiraZero.8514:

Unless you’re a roamer looking specifically for small fights I’d quite honestly just ignore mesmers and thiefs. Its rarely worth while trying to engage them as they tend to be set up for lots of stealth and even if you are able to get the better of them they will just reset the fight by stealthing and getting some distance. It just isnt worth the time unless your out to test your 1v1 skill.

That being said, if you get jumped on your way to an objective, try to dodge as much of the initial burst as you can, pop your stab, use any source of swiftness and just bail for the nearest tower or group of friendlies you can find. They will soon get bored and move onto their next target.
Mesmers and Thieves just tend to pick off unsuspecting people because they know most people aren’t set up build/gear wise for proper solo fights, it makes them feel skilled even though they aren’t. Anyone can spec for max damage and just gank people, only builds determines who wins.

fixed lol

I have been playing condi mesmer for a quite amount of time. Never liked shatter builds and I love stealth play. Before the patch we were terrible. Now we are horrible. Blind needs ICD and stealth is too much, both with thief and mesmer. But they can be killed. Nobody wants to use condi removal or any other tactical skills because they want the highest damage. Choose engineer especially a burn build. Pooff! No more condi mesmer (thats how I roam). Rangers pets are perfect for snare and fear to break their chains. And guardians… they should not die to a condi mesmer in 1v1. Their burn is lovely. A warrior can disengage because no mesmer can outrun him. Dd ele still do not die easily.

I have been adjusting my gamestyle to the new changes. Rune and sigils, set stats, all changes according to them. Even slot skills. Noe I am perfectly fine with all my professions (ranger is still more advantageous at roaming though) except some imbalances in some skills.

Ps: nobody thinks that an engineer can be powerful but with the latest patch engineers are “holy crap what the kitten did that guy hit me”.

Thief is not a big problem I think, but mesmers after last patch can burst you from 100 to 0 pretty easy if you run glassy build ( I do ), especially if you don’t see them coming ( stealth op ).
Maybe if they ever changed stealth so that you see the enemy in range of 200-300 units from you, giving that 1 sec to react to full GS 2-GS 3-F1-F3-F2-MoP – press everything combo… So far you can only stick with zerg/group of ppl or change build to something allowing you to take a hit.

Well, ( i am the Op), i usually play in www with my wells necro, GS/Staff Guardian, Staff ele or Hammer warrior, usually using the meta builds use for zerg, thieves not so much but mesmer definetly, does roaming or small group use a diferent type of build in www, or is there a specific class that has a better survivabilty against the mesmers?

Which mesmer? Guardian can really kick condi mesmer’s tushy, a well playing ranger will not die to a mesmer, engineer with burn build will really hurt mesmer… Goes on like this. There are many builds that can counter mesmer easily but in the end it comes to a personal skill lvl issue I guess. Ones that I gave as an example are the ones that I have played myself (except guardian. But I have many friends who play it).

SNIEVES.3964:

Well, ( i am the Op), i usually play in www with my wells necro, GS/Staff Guardian, Staff ele or Hammer warrior, usually using the meta builds use for zerg, thieves not so much but mesmer definetly, does roaming or small group use a diferent type of build in www, or is there a specific class that has a better survivabilty against the mesmers?

if you’re going up against a gank class with a zerg build you’re going to have a bad time

Well, I can’t speak for most of your classes, but for Ranger Theives are usually a favorable fight, and Mes depends ENTIRELY on the quality of the player. Bring a trap(or two, depending on build) and Signet of Stone. Run gear with Toughness, Vitality, or both (if you can squeeze it in). ALWAYS pack a wolf when walking around alone.

The Survival stats + Stone mean you’re going to eat the opening burst and be alive. If you swap into wolf, they’ll have little time to break off before being knocked down. If immediately feared, they’ll have problems (especially post 23 thief; their Stunbreaks are rare and valuable). Should you stand still for a moment, drop a trap at your own feet so that initial burst bit into them as well. Memorize your burst skill (Maul on GS, RF on LB, and #2 on Axe all work well here), then slam into them. 90% of burst builds are glass; between the pet, the trap, and your attack they’ll usually be hurting and try to break for reset. This makes RF really great since it tracks into stealth, but make SURE you check for confusion before activating. Even 3-4 stacks of confusion will make your day a bad one going through Rapid Fire!

More general advice to keep from being ganked:
#Don’t AFK in the middle of the road.
#Don’t AFK on top of a node, on a Ruin, or outside a supply camp.
#Don’t AFK. By this, I also mean sorting inventory, tweaking builds, changing dyes, etc. If you aren’t actively moving, you’re a target.
#Try to keep swiftness up. Moving targets are harder; sometime a gank can just outright miss.
#If the opponent goes for reset, use ‘X’ to flip and swing every so often. Nothing worse than a backstab that misses and gets a GS to the face instead.
#No one works well underwater, but Burst builds are especially bad. If you need a little breathing room, treat them likes a hive of bees and jump in the water for a second.

Hope this helps!

Nachyochez.9758:

More general advice to keep from being ganked:
#Don’t AFK in the middle of the road.
#Don’t AFK on top of a node, on a Ruin, or outside a supply camp.
#Don’t AFK. By this, I also mean sorting inventory, tweaking builds, changing dyes, etc. If you aren’t actively moving, you’re a target.

These are the PERFECT disguises for stealth traps tho

Or Moa.

I love watching thieves react to being moa’d. Makes my day