Guild Wars 2

you know why no one likes dealing with thieves? because they can literally leave combat when they want to. dont give this same function to every class and player

it divisiveness combat in an area that they control. gliding in wvw should only be used to travel from one place to another. not as a way to chicken out of fights when you feel its convenient

blackgamma.1809:

you know why no one likes dealing with thieves? because they can literally leave combat when they want to. dont give this same function to every class and player

it divisiveness combat in an area that they control. gliding in wvw should only be used to travel from one place to another. not as a way to chicken out of fights when you feel its convenient

Maneuver them away from the high ground.

And to me, it’s like salty whispers. I know I’ve won. So do they.

Yes. Gliding in combats needs to be removed. It’s really hurting the mode….

Vova.2640:

Yes. Gliding in combats needs to be removed. It’s really hurting the mode….

alrdy many threads that debated this. go read whats on them. the verdict was that it should remain as is. I still maintain that other things need to be adapted tho.

Cerby.1069:

Vova.2640:

Yes. Gliding in combats needs to be removed. It’s really hurting the mode….

alrdy many threads that debated this. go read whats on them. the verdict was that it should remain as is. I still maintain that other things need to be adapted tho.

yeah lets “adapt” by not fighting at high places

no, its a dumb argument

EDIT: thought i understand the merit of the idea and the value of the idea. it promotes dumb gameplay more than anything else

I disagree it empowers defenders which is something the game mode deserves more of. Your just salty your bags escaped

Rangerdeity.5847:

I disagree it empowers defenders which is something the game mode deserves more of. Your just salty your bags escaped

no it doesn’t? your build alone should do that. if you fly away from a point of combat, you literally stop defending whatever you were there for. your argument makes no sense at all

It is no different from thieves stealthing and mesmers blinking, people are losing and trying to get away from the fight. Gliding works fine atm, it provides extra safe way out same way you could run and hide in tower that your server controls.

There is no point fighting to the bitter end and dying.

FogLeg.9354:

It is no different from thieves stealthing and mesmers blinking, people are losing and trying to get away from the fight. Gliding works fine atm, it provides extra safe way out same way you could run and hide in tower that your server controls.

There is no point fighting to the bitter end and dying.

" There is no point fighting to the bitter end and dying"

Wow and Anet wonders why WvW is declining.

Maybe its because they listened to PvE players who never really liked defending camps to upgrade towers and keeps and spend actual time defending towers, keeps and camps.

Its one thing to escape a fight by out maneuvering your enemy or pulling a good invisibility ability in a spot people are not looking. Its another when people just jump away and glide off.

There is a reason Anet needs to link 3 servers together for that 1 Border Land to get max people, its because of horrible decisions like Gliding without checking it first, or Golem Run frenzy or HOT Necro EPI for the win.

Some people may like gliding in WvW and thats fine but you should work out the kinks before just throwing it in there which Anet didnt.

At this point its obvious Anet doesnt think about much when implementing anything into the game.

Please next start the next thread with " Mounts in WvW" when enough people ask for it and Anet tries to do it because they cater to the " If you WvW, you probably PvE" mentality, so bring on the mounts!!!!!!!!!!!!

blackgamma.1809:

Rangerdeity.5847:

I disagree it empowers defenders which is something the game mode deserves more of. Your just salty your bags escaped

no it doesn’t? your build alone should do that. if you fly away from a point of combat, you literally stop defending whatever you were there for. your argument makes no sense at all

Gate to camp south of bay or bridge south of hills. also in just about every keep and in smc it allows you to glide from inner to outer walls to push the enemy zerg face first into inner gate and wipe them. it makes dive swings far more effective when you dont have to dive out you can simply glide out safely then rush straight to gate slaughtering and tapping the siege on the way in then glide out push in glide out push in. its a very effective tactic which would be fully voided by people painting walls given no glide in combat.

It doest aid people fighting in their owned territory period it gives them the advantage. You are indeed just salty your bags got away thats it thats all there is to it. your literally complaining you didnt get to to stomp people

TLDR a strategic retreat via glider is a much better defensive option then get wiped and run back from spawn.

FogLeg.9354:

It is no different from thieves stealthing and mesmers blinking, people are losing and trying to get away from the fight. Gliding works fine atm, it provides extra safe way out same way you could run and hide in tower that your server controls.

There is no point fighting to the bitter end and dying.

blink has a cooldown. gliding doesnt so you always have access to your exit strategy

blackgamma.1809:

gliding doesnt so you always have access to your exit strategy

Yes, so?

You still have not explained why it bothers you so much. Are you complaining because you have not bought HoT and unlocked gliding yourself? Are you finding it annoying because you can’t be bothered to take any zones to your server control, instead of ganking people whole day? If you had control of the zone the fight is in, you too could use gliding when starting to lose the fight.

kdaddy.5431:

Please next start the next thread with " Mounts in WvW" when enough people ask for it and Anet tries to do it because they cater to the " If you WvW, you probably PvE" mentality, so bring on the mounts!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sure, I would probably love the mounts in WvW. They required literally 1 minute to unlock in the preview zone, you were not able to mount while fighting (tho you were able to to start the fight with mount attack skill) and they provided nice speed boost. I see no reason for mounts to be excluded from WvW based on that.

Gliding works exactly same in WvW as it does in PvE. You CAN use gliding while in fight to run away from monsters, you should be able to same in WvW. There are even boss battles that require to use gliding. Did PvE decline and crumble because of such horrible decisions? Nah, it’s fine.

Rangerdeity.5847:

blackgamma.1809:

Rangerdeity.5847:

I disagree it empowers defenders which is something the game mode deserves more of. Your just salty your bags escaped

no it doesn’t? your build alone should do that. if you fly away from a point of combat, you literally stop defending whatever you were there for. your argument makes no sense at all

Gate to camp south of bay or bridge south of hills. also in just about every keep and in smc it allows you to glide from inner to outer walls to push the enemy zerg face first into inner gate and wipe them. it makes dive swings far more effective when you dont have to dive out you can simply glide out safely then rush straight to gate slaughtering and tapping the siege on the way in then glide out push in glide out push in. its a very effective tactic which would be fully voided by people painting walls given no glide in combat.

It doest aid people fighting in their owned territory period it gives them the advantage. You are indeed just salty your bags got away thats it thats all there is to it. your literally complaining you didnt get to to stomp people

TLDR a strategic retreat via glider is a much better defensive option then get wiped and run back from spawn.

you shouldnt rely on gliding as opposed to what the anet devs designed the whole maps to do. Fighting on terrain, terrain isnt shapped for gliding. is there for fighting on, any player that says glide is a good stat. that player is inherently bad in wvw and should go back to pve. or maplestory.

your own character build/zerg should dictate how you fight. not gimmicky gliding mechanics

listen, im okay with gliding to escape incoming conflict. in not okay with people that can pick any fight that they want. and then escaping during conflict

and everyone else should actually address what im saying. and not trying to justify bad game play mechanics

FogLeg.9354:

kdaddy.5431:

Please next start the next thread with " Mounts in WvW" when enough people ask for it and Anet tries to do it because they cater to the " If you WvW, you probably PvE" mentality, so bring on the mounts!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sure, I would probably love the mounts in WvW. They required literally 1 minute to unlock in the preview zone, you were not able to mount while fighting (tho you were able to to start the fight with mount attack skill) and they provided nice speed boost. I see no reason for mounts to be excluded from WvW based on that.

Gliding works exactly same in WvW as it does in PvE. You CAN use gliding while in fight to run away from monsters, you should be able to same in WvW. There are even boss battles that require to use gliding. Did PvE decline and crumble because of such horrible decisions? Nah, it’s fine.

Your comments are exactly my point.

That line about PvE decline yeah thats exactly the way people who dont WvW think and the people Anet are listening too.

Yes PvE did not “crumble” in your words but WvW and PvP did.

Yet PvE players want to continue to bring in more PvE stuff into WvW and PvP.

I mean there has been a significant drop off in skilled game play as well as tactics since the release of HOT in both areas of the game. Does PvE notice it? Of course not because things like raids and fractals are time based situations which are far more about rotations then actual skill.. PvE players, grinders, farmers, etc etc, they all love it because game play itself is easy to understand and easy to play.

Having to actually coordinate a attack and think about where to attack as well as exit strategies were too hard. Now we just glide away and its a joy for alot of the new PvE players who want to get WvW rewards.

But i do agree with you, if Anet brings in gliding to WvW. Why not WvW mounts as well?

blackgamma.1809:

Rangerdeity.5847:

blackgamma.1809:

Rangerdeity.5847:

I disagree it empowers defenders which is something the game mode deserves more of. Your just salty your bags escaped

no it doesn’t? your build alone should do that. if you fly away from a point of combat, you literally stop defending whatever you were there for. your argument makes no sense at all

Gate to camp south of bay or bridge south of hills. also in just about every keep and in smc it allows you to glide from inner to outer walls to push the enemy zerg face first into inner gate and wipe them. it makes dive swings far more effective when you dont have to dive out you can simply glide out safely then rush straight to gate slaughtering and tapping the siege on the way in then glide out push in glide out push in. its a very effective tactic which would be fully voided by people painting walls given no glide in combat.

It doest aid people fighting in their owned territory period it gives them the advantage. You are indeed just salty your bags got away thats it thats all there is to it. your literally complaining you didnt get to to stomp people

TLDR a strategic retreat via glider is a much better defensive option then get wiped and run back from spawn.

you shouldnt rely on gliding as opposed to what the anet devs designed the whole maps to do. Fighting on terrain, terrain isnt shapped for gliding. is there for fighting on, any player that says glide is a good stat. that player is inherently bad in wvw and should go back to pve. or maplestory.

your own character build/zerg should dictate how you fight. not gimmicky gliding mechanics

listen, im okay with gliding to escape incoming conflict. in not okay with people that can pick any fight that they want. and then escaping during conflict

and everyone else should actually address what im saying. and not trying to justify bad game play mechanics

By that definition you also shouldnt use any elite specs WvW was not designed with those in mind. the fact is these are things that have been added to the game and failing to utilize them is stupid beyond all belief. this game is in a constant rolling of balance and the fact is being able to glide in territory you control innately makes you more powerful in your home field. thats a good thing.

Rangerdeity.5847:

blackgamma.1809:

Rangerdeity.5847:

blackgamma.1809:

Rangerdeity.5847:

I disagree it empowers defenders which is something the game mode deserves more of. Your just salty your bags escaped

no it doesn’t? your build alone should do that. if you fly away from a point of combat, you literally stop defending whatever you were there for. your argument makes no sense at all

Gate to camp south of bay or bridge south of hills. also in just about every keep and in smc it allows you to glide from inner to outer walls to push the enemy zerg face first into inner gate and wipe them. it makes dive swings far more effective when you dont have to dive out you can simply glide out safely then rush straight to gate slaughtering and tapping the siege on the way in then glide out push in glide out push in. its a very effective tactic which would be fully voided by people painting walls given no glide in combat.

It doest aid people fighting in their owned territory period it gives them the advantage. You are indeed just salty your bags got away thats it thats all there is to it. your literally complaining you didnt get to to stomp people

TLDR a strategic retreat via glider is a much better defensive option then get wiped and run back from spawn.

you shouldnt rely on gliding as opposed to what the anet devs designed the whole maps to do. Fighting on terrain, terrain isnt shapped for gliding. is there for fighting on, any player that says glide is a good stat. that player is inherently bad in wvw and should go back to pve. or maplestory.

your own character build/zerg should dictate how you fight. not gimmicky gliding mechanics

listen, im okay with gliding to escape incoming conflict. in not okay with people that can pick any fight that they want. and then escaping during conflict

and everyone else should actually address what im saying. and not trying to justify bad game play mechanics

By that definition you also shouldnt use any elite specs WvW was not designed with those in mind. the fact is these are things that have been added to the game and failing to utilize them is stupid beyond all belief. this game is in a constant rolling of balance and the fact is being able to glide in territory you control innately makes you more powerful in your home field. thats a good thing.

your not wrong with that point. but i do want to argue that of the power of gliding.
gliding is still powerful outside of combat. as a travel tool its amazing. and is one of the many things that were needed in desert bl for some time. you can nerf gliding and it would still be good. the problem with gliding is that it has barely any downsides. its only downside is if someone has a ranged weapon at that time. and if not it pretty much an ability thats as busted as an overbuff/broken elite skill.

blackgamma.1809:

in not okay with people that can pick any fight that they want. and then escaping during conflict

When did we start talking about thieves? I thought this thread was about gliding.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

blackgamma.1809:

in not okay with people that can pick any fight that they want. and then escaping during conflict

When did we start talking about thieves? I thought this thread was about gliding.

lol, thieves at least have to burn a couple skills to do it. or at least used too since gliding is a thing

They can’t glide faster than you can run.
If they’re gliding to an area you cannot follow to they’re no longer an immediate threat.
What exactly is the issue here? The fact you’re not getting a bag?

~ Kovu

Kovu.7560:

They can’t glide faster than you can run.
If they’re gliding to an area you cannot follow to they’re no longer an immediate threat.
What exactly is the issue here? The fact you’re not getting a bag?

~ Kovu

did you not read the thread at all? it disincentivize fighting

kdaddy.5431:

Yes PvE did not “crumble” in your words but WvW and PvP did.

Yes, but if you want to argue about how horribly wrong gliding in WvW is, you should also notice that when HoT was released, you were not able to glide in WvW. And yet, WvW suffered. So it was NOT the gliding that hurt WvW.

They created desert BL maps for HoT clearly gliding in mind, and yet, refused to add gliding into WvW when releasing HoT. Why? I dunno, but it was the reason desert maps were so badly received.

And how would exactly mounts “ruin” the WvW? If you want to argue about that too, we can make another topic for it or go on in this.

blackgamma.1809:

Cerby.1069:

Vova.2640:

Yes. Gliding in combats needs to be removed. It’s really hurting the mode….

alrdy many threads that debated this. go read whats on them. the verdict was that it should remain as is. I still maintain that other things need to be adapted tho.

yeah lets “adapt” by not fighting at high places

no, its a dumb argument

EDIT: thought i understand the merit of the idea and the value of the idea. it promotes dumb gameplay more than anything else

well that can be easilly fixed, i found a few issues wich ive been leeching as well…

Losing? Well… lets just fly away….
Drop targets from cliff’s, well targers just fly away.

It promotes what this game was designed for ….

Still i would love some changes to happens to avoid above points.
Here are some ideias.

1) some sorta longer cast on deploying glidders they are instantly.. (2 Sec. would be decent IMO).

2) if target uses glidder on combat, glidder can be destroyed/damaged, ADD glidder repair as armor repair.

3) deploying glidder on combat would be slower +1 sec, and gives slow (turtle condi thing)to the user when he gets off glidder.

My only worry with this, is I’ve had a lot of fun gliding into combat on top of zergs, surprising the hell out of them, and wrecking them.

Gliding actually makes defending Inner & Outer SM a lot easier.

So if they made it to where “you can’t glide in combat”, then that dive bomb tactic would be suicide, since anyone attacking you in the air would put you “in combat”.

If they did go this route, I hope they would go the route of “you can’t start gliding while in combat”.

Even then, I don’t know that gliding away is that big of an issue. Running away is already pretty trivial with the amount of stability & swiftness in the game.

Rangerdeity.5847:

I disagree it empowers defenders which is something the game mode deserves more of. Your just salty your bags escaped

What??
No. It is already way too easy to defend a T3 objective.
It takes like 5 people with a brain to stop a map queue from taking a T3 keep. If anything, attackers should get more tools to attack objectives.
It’s ridiculous that people just wanna hide behind their walls and sit on ACs all day instead of fighting.

Vova.2640:

Rangerdeity.5847:

I disagree it empowers defenders which is something the game mode deserves more of. Your just salty your bags escaped

What??
No. It is already way too easy to defend a T3 objective.
It takes like 5 people with a brain to stop a map queue from taking a T3 keep. If anything, attackers should get more tools to attack objectives.
It’s ridiculous that people just wanna hide behind their walls and sit on ACs all day instead of fighting.

if a ful queue is stoped by 5 players…. that is a awfully bad server….

10-15 players are more than eneught to take a t3 from 5 players….over time.
a full queue would be a no chance for the 5 players….

No one likes in combat speed why would you carry it over to other things?
Thfs are annoying because they can keep you in combat when they are healing in there stealth. If the thf is getting out of combat you are getting out of combat making the thf have to start over. If any thing your asking for a thf to be more annoying as in they can hold you on the ground all day because they are doing nothing more then combat trolling your group.

FogLeg.9354:

kdaddy.5431:

Yes PvE did not “crumble” in your words but WvW and PvP did.

Yes, but if you want to argue about how horribly wrong gliding in WvW is, you should also notice that when HoT was released, you were not able to glide in WvW. And yet, WvW suffered. So it was NOT the gliding that hurt WvW.

They created desert BL maps for HoT clearly gliding in mind, and yet, refused to add gliding into WvW when releasing HoT. Why? I dunno, but it was the reason desert maps were so badly received.

And how would exactly mounts “ruin” the WvW? If you want to argue about that too, we can make another topic for it or go on in this.

HOT ruined WvW by introducing new specs that were not meant for zerg fighting.

The ability to apply condi repeatedly over and over in sec forced certain zerg comps and then epi necro came into play. Also the nerfing on certain skills made them less useful in PvE and PvP such as rifle warrior.

HOT also ruined things by not allowing WvW players to play the new specs without doing PvE. With a much much more.

But once again you are trying to use to argue PvE in WvW. WvW players did not want this and PvE players pushed for the new BL map that Anet made for WvW. WvW players wanted the ability to fight on different plains, attack structures differently and be able to have more choke points in fights.

Gliding literally takes away many things the real WvW players wanted. Im talking the players with 3k 4k 5k+ WvW abilities.

Like for instance in did not play WvW much since the WvW leveling system came into play. Im still around 1k levels in WvW but i have most of my WvW AP done and the ones that are not in are T5 and over half done and i havent played WvW much since HOT.

Gliding effects the way fighting is done in WvW. The immersion of zergs fighting in a tower/keep with players able to either glide into a fight or away takes away from many aspects of WvW.

Also the mount thing is something Anet would implement without testing. For instance Anet allowed POF specs in WvW and zergs were finding bugs making the whole server crash.

Its just one of those things where when you need balance in a game, with the track record ANet has with GW2 it wont happen and there will something wrong with mounts in WvW, sord of like Gliding in WvW.

WvW is not like PvE where if some may like or some dont they can do other things. Like if you are a PvE players you could be a raider, a map completionist, Ap hunter, skins collector, a farmer etc etc etc.

If you play in WvW you are there to WvW and thats it, Anet keeps bringing in PvE ideals into WvW without giving them the WvW spin on it. Its why i bring up HOT specs, HOT specs were made for the raid bosses. Increased combat speed, more healing, boons, damage and lower CD’s. They make raids what they are but they did not see what would happen to PvP and WvW.

In PvP fights never ended and in WvW fights ended almost immediately, things brought into another game mode need to have looked at from that view.

Sadly Anet hasnt and many PvE players who want more PvE stuff in WvW are in a sense killing WvW since WvW was its own game type and it needed its own changes.

For instance new upgrades or choices for keeps or towers, new weapons or defense/sustain/offensive tactics.

With a new Guild Hall that requires thousands of gold for WvW upgrades, you would think Anet would have given WvW something, instead they split the community again with gliding and in the future mounts. You dont grow a community by killing the veterans and bringing in casual PvE players who are not willing to fight or die for something like defending the BL tower or keep.

kdaddy.5431:

FogLeg.9354:

kdaddy.5431:

Yes PvE did not “crumble” in your words but WvW and PvP did.

Yes, but if you want to argue about how horribly wrong gliding in WvW is, you should also notice that when HoT was released, you were not able to glide in WvW. And yet, WvW suffered. So it was NOT the gliding that hurt WvW.

They created desert BL maps for HoT clearly gliding in mind, and yet, refused to add gliding into WvW when releasing HoT. Why? I dunno, but it was the reason desert maps were so badly received.

And how would exactly mounts “ruin” the WvW? If you want to argue about that too, we can make another topic for it or go on in this.

HOT ruined WvW by introducing new specs that were not meant for zerg fighting.

The ability to apply condi repeatedly over and over in sec forced certain zerg comps and then epi necro came into play. Also the nerfing on certain skills made them less useful in PvE and PvP such as rifle warrior.

HOT also ruined things by not allowing WvW players to play the new specs without doing PvE. With a much much more.

But once again you are trying to use to argue PvE in WvW. WvW players did not want this and PvE players pushed for the new BL map that Anet made for WvW. WvW players wanted the ability to fight on different plains, attack structures differently and be able to have more choke points in fights.

Gliding literally takes away many things the real WvW players wanted. Im talking the players with 3k 4k 5k+ WvW abilities.

Like for instance in did not play WvW much since the WvW leveling system came into play. Im still around 1k levels in WvW but i have most of my WvW AP done and the ones that are not in are T5 and over half done and i havent played WvW much since HOT.

Gliding effects the way fighting is done in WvW. The immersion of zergs fighting in a tower/keep with players able to either glide into a fight or away takes away from many aspects of WvW.

Also the mount thing is something Anet would implement without testing. For instance Anet allowed POF specs in WvW and zergs were finding bugs making the whole server crash.

Its just one of those things where when you need balance in a game, with the track record ANet has with GW2 it wont happen and there will something wrong with mounts in WvW, sord of like Gliding in WvW.

WvW is not like PvE where if some may like or some dont they can do other things. Like if you are a PvE players you could be a raider, a map completionist, Ap hunter, skins collector, a farmer etc etc etc.

If you play in WvW you are there to WvW and thats it, Anet keeps bringing in PvE ideals into WvW without giving them the WvW spin on it. Its why i bring up HOT specs, HOT specs were made for the raid bosses. Increased combat speed, more healing, boons, damage and lower CD’s. They make raids what they are but they did not see what would happen to PvP and WvW.

In PvP fights never ended and in WvW fights ended almost immediately, things brought into another game mode need to have looked at from that view.

Sadly Anet hasnt and many PvE players who want more PvE stuff in WvW are in a sense killing WvW since WvW was its own game type and it needed its own changes.

For instance new upgrades or choices for keeps or towers, new weapons or defense/sustain/offensive tactics.

With a new Guild Hall that requires thousands of gold for WvW upgrades, you would think Anet would have given WvW something, instead they split the community again with gliding and in the future mounts. You dont grow a community by killing the veterans and bringing in casual PvE players who are not willing to fight or die for something like defending the BL tower or keep.

This guy spits random words with nothing backing them like donald trump.

You have to play pve to use elite specs? you realize I have enough points to instant level my necro to scourge the very moment it releases because I played WvW right? people not playing WvW cant do that.

OH MY GOD new builds means new meta? holy hell i never would have known that elite specs changing the builds people use=destroying an entire game mode. kitten here i was enjoying those new builds in WvW man was i wrong.

Man this guy must be in a retirement home because he seems to just hate everything that classifies as “change”

kdaddy.5431:

Gliding effects the way fighting is done in WvW. The immersion of zergs fighting in a tower/keep with players able to either glide into a fight or away takes away from many aspects of WvW.

It takes virtually nothing away, and only added something new to it.

The only strategy I can think that was seriously effected by this, is putting a flame ram at the top of stairs in a keep or SMC. Since they can glide right past the stairs and on top of you.

Which, in case you didn’t know, is a strategy you can easily punish a group for.

They’re gliding in on top of you? Bomb the hell out of them before they’ve all landed. You can kill many of them before they can get the stab they need to fight back.

Also, can we be real here? The long time WvW players, the ones you call “dedicated”, freaking hate towers & keeps. They also hate being out numbered.

The reason why the Desert BLs hurt WvW so much, was because there wasn’t many nice open areas to fight in.

Also because the Desert BLs were too large.

For instance new upgrades or choices for keeps or towers, new weapons or defense/sustain/offensive tactics.

Yeah, I really doubt you’re a big WvW player. Everyone I know absolutely hates “siege humping”. It even has a derogatory phrase for it, lol.

Putting a freaking AC down in an open field literally draws hatred from your allies. Including me, go back to EoTM with that crap.

Running venoms with your necro’s wells was one of the most taboo hated things you could do in WvW.

Long time WvW players have essentially wanted a competitive 15v15 mode where they can fight to their hearts content.

Oh, while a lot of them simultaneously want that system to place them only against teams they can defeat. Wouldn’t want to hurt anyone’s egos.

HoT did usher in an era of boon corrupt & condi spam though. And with scourge coming in PoF, I think that’s only going to get worse. Lol.

ANet: Here’s a supporting Necro spec

Everyone else: Uhmmm, it literally corrupts boons just by walking next to the enemy team with desert shroud on. THAT is your idea of a support spec????

Strategies need to change. Instead of backing people up to a cliff, adapt. Back them into a wall.

If that is too hard to accomplish, then your squad tactics aren’t as good as you have led yourself to believe.

Yes, HoT made people change how they fought and a definitive case can be made against those changes being positive. But the successful guilds adapted.

It needs to happen again.

Oh.. also? It’ll need to happen a lot more with the PoF elites, their subsequent nerfing (which will happen about 2-3 months post release) and any other tweak to classes. If people can’t adapt to the new Meta, ( or build to kill the new meta) then they will either leave, or become bags.

One helps the ques, one helps my gold.

Good luck.

blackgamma.1809:

Kovu.7560:

They can’t glide faster than you can run.
If they’re gliding to an area you cannot follow to they’re no longer an immediate threat.
What exactly is the issue here? The fact you’re not getting a bag?

~ Kovu

did you not read the thread at all? it disincentivize fighting

Not anymore so than fighting a high mobility spec. No, it forces people to adapt their strategy. If you know you’re fighting someone next to a cliff whilst they have gliding don’t act as if they’re the ones who shot you in the foot when they use their wings as a defensive tactic. Perhaps try saving some of your CC for when they’re lower health and more likely to run.
We all play by the same rules.

(Well except thieves. They’re all cheating hackers.)

~ Kovu

@ Rangerdeity.5847

If you could read, when Anet HOT they did not make new specs available to get in the WvW so ill just assume you missed it.

Also how is 5 necros dropping whole 50 man zergs with 1 skill ( epidemic) a good thing? Please more perma stealth and instant rez builds please !!!!!!

@ TheOneWhoSighs.7513

Thats fine in dont need your approval to know i played WvW. Or the people i played with and the people you speak about for 15 vs 15 are also the ones asking for Guild vs Guild stuff.

This is not the same group of people who are looking to defend and conquer BL. Ive been on CD since Pre and we were a Solo Tier 2 server at one point and it wasnt because of population. It was because of communication and players 2-3 of them protecting camps and bot towers.

I mean it took forever for Anet to implement new-fun- rewarding things to WvW that alot of the players we are talking about are no longer real WvW players which is why its dying.

Obviously there are people who like gliding, i personally dont think its good in WvW and you argue strategy which once again is your point but its frustrated the last of the WvW players i know.

Then you bring up the players that want G vs G and they are simply players looking to fight one another. If Anet just opened up a battle ground where players could fight whether it was in the Open world or in there own instance, they would be happy.

We are suppose to be talking about the real WvW players. And no i can not call myself one of them since i have not really WvW since HOT. But i knew many people who finished all there WvW AP and were above ranks 4k.

Many of them have been upset about the many things brought into WvW that is changing the identity of it.

Calls us old dogs, get off my lawn players. But if you started 3 sports Leagues and WvW was Hockey, Basket Ball was PvP and PvE was Golf. You cant just start mixing rules from one into another and think it will make the game better. It will make some players happy and others not which will only drive away players.

Kovu.7560:

blackgamma.1809:

Kovu.7560:

They can’t glide faster than you can run.
If they’re gliding to an area you cannot follow to they’re no longer an immediate threat.
What exactly is the issue here? The fact you’re not getting a bag?

~ Kovu

did you not read the thread at all? it disincentivize fighting

Not anymore so than fighting a high mobility spec. No, it forces people to adapt their strategy. If you know you’re fighting someone next to a cliff whilst they have gliding don’t act as if they’re the ones who shot you in the foot when they use their wings as a defensive tactic. Perhaps try saving some of your CC for when they’re lower health and more likely to run.
We all play by the same rules.

(Well except thieves. They’re all cheating hackers.)

~ Kovu

so you actually are being ignorant and not reading the thread? because i literally already said why this argument is flawed. if adapting means not engaging the fight at all, then its a bad unhealthy mechanic. because not fighting will always the best method in this scenario.

if that perosn has an elite skill with no cooldown that says “leave combat” why bother? stop trying to justify bad mechanics. a person can always justify doing something bad but that doesn’t mean thats person is right

kdaddy.5431:

FogLeg.9354:

It is no different from thieves stealthing and mesmers blinking, people are losing and trying to get away from the fight. Gliding works fine atm, it provides extra safe way out same way you could run and hide in tower that your server controls.

There is no point fighting to the bitter end and dying.

" There is no point fighting to the bitter end and dying"

Wow and Anet wonders why WvW is declining.

Maybe its because they listened to PvE players who never really liked defending camps to upgrade towers and keeps and spend actual time defending towers, keeps and camps.

Its one thing to escape a fight by out maneuvering your enemy or pulling a good invisibility ability in a spot people are not looking. Its another when people just jump away and glide off.

There is a reason Anet needs to link 3 servers together for that 1 Border Land to get max people, its because of horrible decisions like Gliding without checking it first, or Golem Run frenzy or HOT Necro EPI for the win.

Some people may like gliding in WvW and thats fine but you should work out the kinks before just throwing it in there which Anet didnt.

At this point its obvious Anet doesnt think about much when implementing anything into the game.

Please next start the next thread with " Mounts in WvW" when enough people ask for it and Anet tries to do it because they cater to the " If you WvW, you probably PvE" mentality, so bring on the mounts!!!!!!!!!!!!

My time in T1 the prime tier of WvW. I’d have the agree with the devs. Most WvWers are not in the game mode for good fights. Most players are in the game mode to discourge other players and server from even coming out to fight. So they can just Karma Train effortlessly in WvW. Sounds more so like a PvEer then a RvRer to me. So I’ll defend the devs in this case.

A few days ago when we actually had BG at equal numbers. Guess what BG players did? They turned and ran and hid until they outnumbered us 3 and in some cases 4 to 1 and chased us down. So we’d go do something else to leave them to K-Train because they did not want a fight but to reward train farm. Sounds like a PvEer to me.

Stop being soo kitten salty that the poor 23 man squad glided away from your 60 plus man blob denying you free effortless bags. I support gliding in WvW.

I really like the gliding mechanic in wvw and wouldn’t support gliding being disabled by combat. It has added a whole new way of fighting and defending. Change and learning to adapt to change is good for the game.
Not really sure about the op’s reason for posting cos you can still hit people who are gliding away…with pew pew ranged attack to take them down or hit them with condi, watch their life tick away and them plummet to their death so it’s no biggie. It’s quite a laugh actually.
Gliding has made wvw so much fun since it was introduced, the fun more than compensates for the ones who get away.

kdaddy.5431:

HOT ruined WvW by introducing new specs that were not meant for zerg fighting.

There is so much wrong in this sentence, I have trouble even understanding if it is ment to be serious.

Look, the game is not designed for wvw only. There are multiple different gamemodes and new expansion with new skills and mechanics will need to cover all of these. Even further, zerg fighting is optional part of the wvw, something players choose to do, it would be incredibly stupid from developers to start to design WHOLE game around zerg vs zerg battles.

kdaddy.5431:

The ability to apply condi repeatedly over and over in sec forced certain zerg comps and then epi necro came into play. Also the nerfing on certain skills made them less useful in PvE and PvP such as rifle warrior.

Players will adapt. There has never been one single build or class that can not be beaten (or if there has, it has been nerfed/fixed eventually). If the changes happen, and one class/build becomes stronger or weaker, then the opponents will notice it and start to run counter-builds and pick classes that work well against dominant enemy.

Would you seriously wish the game would have no changes at all during several years just so everyone can stick to their prefered class/build in zerg vs zerg fights? No, people would get increadibly bored very fast and start to leave because nothing changes. Changes are good, changes keep the game fresh and push players to try new things.

Maybe the rifle warrior was just too good and required the nerf. It is not like with HoT every warrior has to quit WvW forever.

kdaddy.5431:

HOT also ruined things by not allowing WvW players to play the new specs without doing PvE.

This I agree. When the HoT launched wvw had very little rewards overall, some have been added by now, like the ability to finish Hero Points. I still don’t think any player should be able to complete new elites without ANY PvE.

kdaddy.5431:

WvW players did not want this and PvE players pushed for the new BL map that Anet made for WvW. WvW players wanted the ability to fight on different plains, attack structures differently and be able to have more choke points in fights.

First of, PvE players do not care about WvW. Most do not even know WvW exist, so they most certainly do not ask for different WvW maps. The WvW players were so bored on the same map they asked for new ones. All the things you mention were added to the Desert BL map. The map was just not properly finished, and some features were badly balanced.

But now, after some fixes and changes, it is fine. Nobody cares anymore which map they go to. And there still is no flood of PvE players on the desert BL maps, because they still do not care about WvW.

kdaddy.5431:

Gliding literally takes away many things the real WvW players wanted.

No it doesnt.

And you starting to sound creepy already. Who are those “real” WvW players you talking about? Are they some sort of secret gathering in the well hidden cellar with hundreds of computers where the “real” WvW players from all over the world will have the chance to play the game the way it is meant to? Do you also share handshake and certificate?

And the others who play WvW, they are what? Unreal? Surreal? Imaginary?

Sorry, but your personal opinion is just that. I respect that you have opinion even when I do not agree with you. But you are not talking for anyone else.

kdaddy.5431:

Gliding effects the way fighting is done in WvW. The immersion of zergs fighting in a tower/keep with players able to either glide into a fight or away takes away from many aspects of WvW.

Yes, the gliding has effect on fighting. It makes it better, it makes WvW more fun. It should of been added when HoT was released.

kdaddy.5431:

WvW is not like PvE where if some may like or some dont they can do other things. Like if you are a PvE players you could be a raider, a map completionist, Ap hunter, skins collector, a farmer etc etc etc.

If you play in WvW you are there to WvW and thats it, Anet keeps bringing in PvE ideals into WvW without giving them the WvW spin on it.

Well, no. There are multiple ways to play in WvW too. You could play for the score, take objectives and defend towers. Or you could be in WvW for the excitement of large scale PvP. Both sides have existed from the beginning and are equally important. Some players just tend to be more interested in one, and keep complaining why so many other players play the WvW in “wrong” way.

There is also no universal “WvW fight”. Fights in WvW could be anything from 1v1 duel, to small groups to guilds clashing up to multi-way-zergs. There is no way to balance every class, skill or item in the game so every possible situation can be covered. And there is no need either, as I explained already, in WvW things will balance out eventually itself. Overusing one build will create counterbuilds.

kdaddy.5431:

For instance new upgrades or choices for keeps or towers, new weapons or defense/sustain/offensive tactics.

I think they tried that with HoT and desert maps. Shield generators. Jumping pads, Fire-spitting lava pools. Oasis. Thing is… I am still not sure these make WvW any better. Mostly these are simply ignored, and if used, very rarely have they real effect.

kdaddy.5431:

With a new Guild Hall that requires thousands of gold for WvW upgrades, you would think Anet would have given WvW something, instead they split the community again with gliding and in the future mounts.

hm…

I don’t like the way Guild Hall was implemented. It was way too grindy and required too many materials from specific PvE maps. And, in the end, I don’t even think it has much point in WvW. I dunno, it feels sort of waste to me.

Is the gliding (and possible addition of mounts) splitting WvW community? I don’t see it. Gliding is not required in WvW, it may give you some small shortcut at certain situation, but I have yet to see it being abused to the point where players without it are seriously hampered down. Then again, I do expect anyone who plays WvW constantly, have gliding unlocked. Not because it allows you to glide, but because of elite specs HoT also brings. So, the way I see it, gliding is just the little extra you so far had unlocked anyway but was unable to use in WvW.

As about the mounts, we are clearly both speculating. All we had was small preview of one part of PoF map. we do not know if mounts will be available in WvW. Or if they will provide same speed boost they did in PvE. Or have other special abilities (high jump, hovering etc) unlocked in WvW. Why I am not worried about mounts myself is the simple reason that they were not usable in fights. You were able to move faster, and find fights faster but you had no boost in actual fight. Which would be really nice in WvW too.

I also do not think PoF will be such a “must buy” for WvW players as the HoT was. Again, we will have to wait and see, but the features so far were more of “nice but you can actually play without it”.

also, if anet devs and everyone else wants to double down on terrible decision choices of giving people the power of busted moment mechanics

they should just enable the executioner’s axe toy for wvw and every other tonic that enables op movement skills

Combat blocking gliding is not the right answer it needs to be an hp % so low hp players cant glide or have them drop at a low %.

Jski.6180:

Combat blocking gliding is not the right answer it needs to be an hp % so low hp players cant glide or have them drop at a low %.

would be a wee bit to hard to implement

if you wanted to go down that route. i would make it so you cant regenerate endurance. so when you do start gliding, your total starting endurance is based off your current hp. giving it an actual downside to using it. making it more of a risk to use

You could stop trying to gank people in territory they control, as well.