Guild Wars 2

zerging is ruining wvw, wvw now is reduced to zergfest. some of you consider this fun i consider it distasteful. it mocks the server with less population, people that want to play wvw with strategy, people that roam to improve their skill, people with less optimal internet connection, and so on.

there is a simple and effective way to eliminate zerging and restore wvw to a state it is meant to be:

1. REMOVE CHAMPION BAGS FROM TOWER AND KEEP CHAMPION
this is the simplest and the most effective way to eliminate zerging. wvw now is a large champion bag farm operation. zergs will move from maps to maps to farm these bags, creating a negative play experience for other, but they doesn’t care since they come only for bags. by removing the bags it eliminate the unhealthy obsessions for bags and cull the zergs (the people that come for bags will be shifted back to frostgorge or queensdale)
2. GUARDS , TOWER AND KEEP CHAMPIONS NEED TO SCALE
capping tower is challenging with small groups, but it become a pve content when done with zergs. scaling the guards, tower and keep champions will make taking tower more challenging. now the guards and champions are too easy to kill, it didnt give enough time for the defending player to rally and defend the tower/keep.
3. GIVE MORE INCENTIVES TO DEFENDING TASK
defending task ( guard sentry, tower and camp, walk yak) are often neglected since people are more interested in joining the zerg to roll down enemies door. perhaps by giving more incentives to these task it will make more player do it.
4. INTRODUCE NEW SCORING SYSTEM
right now the scoring system only count the total amount of structure the player owned and times it with the point for the respective structure. this is favorable for people that zergs since i almost never encounter a tower that is defended after being attacked by zergs. by introducing scoring system that give minus point if your server failed to defend the tower that is not yours (each server have 4 tower and a keep at eb, and the bl) it will change the approach to wvw (-200 for each tower failed to defend and – 400 for each keep you failed to defend or something like that)

well this is certainly a raw thought and need much polishing. give your input here and let your thought be heard. becauses im tired of zergs ruining wvw (wvw is supposed to be a team game that focused on stategy not the server population)

Do you realize how many ideas have been already posed for “how to eliminate zergs/zerging” over the past year? And yet, zerging still exists? Yo, here’s a thought, zerging in WvW is here to stay, deal with it. In fact, zerging is so awesome, they are zerging in PvE…bet you have no problems with that though, eh?

I don’t object to suggestions to improve game play – but you’re basically saying that YOU don’t like that play style so NO ONE should get to do it. Good luck with that sort of argument.

Despite the fact that I do not enjoy zerging, I do not subscribe to the idea that it is a flawed tactic. There is a place for large armies and larger numbers in warfare, and there is also a place for havoc groups that work asymmetrically. I run with the latter, in small 5-10 man groups. I know what happens when zerg commanders lack the support of roamers, yakslappers and havoc groups: it makes it harder for them to take major objectives, like keeps or castles.

Let the zergs roam free!

Besides, I love having my 5-man lure away an 80-man zerg from Stonemist Castle, allowing my server to take it for the tick.

If you remove the incentives for the towers and keeps, your server population will return to PvE. Maybe that’s what you want…dunno but without that population, you won’t be able to capture much.

I play on SBI and it’s really a PvE server and we were leading Maguuma and Yak’s Bend up until the patch for Wintersday and then, poof, no more population and we’re in third place with no chance of regaining. We have strong guilds that maintain a presence but we aren’t getting the clicks we need because people are chasing the yellows elsewhere.

I would rather have the zerg when my server is trying to take a keep or stonemist. I can roam on my own or in a small group if I decide the the monotony of running with the zerg is too much. The zerg will stay…..

This presumes most people dislike zerging which doesn’t seem to always be the case.

1) champ bags, Won’t happen as its one of the few ways for WvW players to get ascended mats and gold. They are trying to improve rewards in WvW not nerf them.

2) Champ Scaling, Won’t matter, No one in the zerg will think “oh to many people here, champ to strong, must leave” People will still just zerg it down regardless of how strong it is. Also that would be a huge buff to warrior banners as it would be harder to take the lord down, meaning the banner is needed less.

3) Defending rewards,They had this more or less on release, problem was people found ways to bot or afk farm them. How would you be able to tell the difference between some one really defending vs a bot or some afk guy?

4) Scoring system, This would be another snowball effect that would be the strong stronger.

Really the easiest why to reduce zerging (“reduce” because you will never eliminate zerging) is to punish players for being in large groups. That said, Anet will never do that, they want a group play game where everyone can come together. They won’t add punishment for people playing together.

Nothing wrong with Zerg. You tiers 8 kitten just jelly at us tier 1. Ask Anet to put GvG map 15v15 problem solve

Karma and loot bags are easier to get in PvE and more rewarding.

Keep and Tower Lords are ridiculously easy to kill with a 4-man swat team (easier than Explorable / Fractal dungeon bosses with the same 4-man team.)

“Defending tasks” are strategically employed usually by players who prefer to run solo/small group. Improving rewards may only peel off a few players from the main attack force, which would be overkill for the required manpower. And lead back to the issues (near release) with bot / farming.

Scoring system – what appears to be “an intuitive change to a complex system will inevitably leave that system worse off” – urban planning axiom from 40+ years ago.

WvW was designed to have those large attack forces at play. It’s quite an improvement over the “epic” lag clashes of the DAoC and Warhammer Online “era” when a total of 200 players congregated in one place would wreck havoc – with players’ frame rates.

If you’re looking for small group PvP, the answer is GvG. Or smaller gated battlegrounds found in other games. Not WvW.

1. 100% disagree and the facts aren’t on your side. They didn’t always drop bags and the zerging was the exact same.

2. Yes, that would be amazing if done right. It would actually discourage zergs because if they were harder and took longer with more people, they wouldn’t want a massive amount of people.

3. I completely agree. I think defense is a major problem and I think there are a couple of good ways to allow for a better defense. Treat it similar Planetside. A waypoint exists in every tower/keep, but there is a cooldown on how often you can use that specific waypoint (like 10 minutes).

4. Yeah, I think the ticking needs to go because it turns the game into coverage wars.

with 100% reply defending the bags, i am 100% sure the bags must go for wvw to return to the state its intended. and by the replies it seems everyone enjoy zerging because its easy,rewarding, and give you a false sense of victory.
still waiting for constructive comment here

No way I like my baggies. It’s pretty much the only way I get most PVE rewards. Plus it’s a good way to try and bait PVE players in WvW. Everyone likes baggies. Baggies did not cause zerging, zerging has always existed. Please don’t take my baggies. I really like them, in fact I wish WvW had better or increased PVE rewards. Not more than PVE of course, but still more. I am greedy though.

I do agree that defenders need a reward, but how do you work the reward so someone doesn’t afk or even use scripted movement. Do you give them massive rewards when they kill someone in or around the point? Passive meters? What about class balancing issues which are more apparent in smaller teams?

Honestly, while I agree zerging can be a pretty cheesy tactic, this game lacks easy ways to retaliate with small numbers to zerg bust. You could remove the limit to 5 targets for any non-cc ability or buffs. But then if you can’t CC an entire zerg how would you break it? They could add in more wall/bubble abilities to help break up a zerg, but that still won’t save you if you’re out numbered. They could make it easier to use certain sieges like trebs and catapults, that might help, but that also might break things. They could make oil indestructible, that might help. They could still kill whoever uses it with aoe, but the oil would always be there, which could help push attackers off the gate. Then people would just go through the walls though.

So what’s left? They could try adding a new type of siege, like a tank or special golem. It would be affective on players, but weak on siege and doors. Basically the MAX suit(see planetside 1/2) of GW2, but for infantry only.

Or they could just population limit maps. It’s a cop out, and a pretty terrible idea, but if you limit the populations so they are forced equal on all sides, you might get smaller or lesser zergs.

But honestly? I don’t think zerging is ever going away. Those battles where it’s a back and forth struggle will always be rare. And my server once defended our last tower with maybe 15 people against a zerg simply by building a lot of siege(superior arrow carts) and bottle necking them. We were lucky though, we had a heap of supply. They did almost portal bomb us and win, but we spotted it, pointed our siege, and wiped them out. It was a good day. None of us thought it would work.

The only people who whine about zerging, are those who are not zerging. I personally LOVE huge battles between masses of players.

Does it suck if you get ran over by a zerg? Sure. It sucks if you’re walking down the freeway and get hit by a bus, too. Same concept. If you are constantly being ran over, then you’re just in the wrong place. The more players in the zerg, the fewer players they have -elsewhere- on the map. It’s the cornerstone of playing while outmanned. “Go where the enemy isn’t”.

It seems you are complaining mostly because you are fighting while outnumbered, and the “evil zerg” takes your territory. However, defending a tower or keep is easy, if you have it properly upgraded and sieged.

If your tower/keep is paper with no siege, it’s easily taken, even WITHOUT a zerg.
If your tower/keep is fully upgraded and sieged, it’s hard to take, even WITH a zerg.

So the response we’ll get now is: “But but but… we can’t upgrade because the zerg keeps taking everything!” Well, then that’s a coverage problem. That is your server community’s problem. It is NOT ArenaNet’s problem. Rally your player base and get them into WvW. If your server’s population is not interested in WvW, then that’s a situation you’re just going to have to live with, or transfer to a server with a WvW community you’re satisfied with.

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So let’s look at it from another perspective.

Let’s say YOU are the one who has overwhelming numbers. Forget about rewards, you’re just here to fight, and you have 3x the number of people as your enemy. You go to attack their tower, because you want to capture that territory for the glory of your server. It’s paper walls, paper gate, and no siege. It’s an easy target.

Yet, by the OP’s logic, there’s no reward for taking the tower. OK, fine. Your group isn’t here for money, they still want to take it. Why? Because it’s there. That’s the whole point of WvW. So you attack. However, ArenaNet has implemented the Anti-Zerging-Update and your very large, and amazingly coordinated force of people you spent countless hours training…cannot take the tower.

“What? We have 60 people and we can’t take the tower! WTH ArenaNet???”
Aaaaaand the players ragequit. That’s right, there’s no point to playing WvW anymore, because number of players doesn’t mean kitten.

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What’s the moral of the story?

If you cannot field a large enough force to defend the structure, it SHOULD fall to superior/overwhelming numbers. To do anything else would be plain silly.

The same people who complain about zergs busting their towers would be the same people that would complain that they had 3x the number of people on the map, and they still couldn’t bust the tower.

TL:DR – If your server doesn’t have coverage, or doesn’t have numbers of WvW players, you only have 2 choices. Get more people, or go to a server that does. Sorry, but that’s what WvW is. Don’t like it? go play PvE where everything’s scaled for you. War is war, and it’s never fair.