Guild Wars 2

just do something about exploit of permanent invisibility thife camping bay 3 AM. 2 of them was from a guild TIME. all there was doing was camping bay inner and permanent invisibility in the smoke if the other enemy and fsp take bay back, there just waiting for the buff to get off then 3 men is soloing 2 thife and 1 war. and if we take it there just do the same and keep getting high xp

and after the enemy AG got bay 20 men was running after the thife and after 5 min there gave up

sorry for my bad english

OP

as usual, the thieves are not exploit, they are Perma-Stealth theives.

I have thief players in my guilds who can Perma-Stealth 5min+, some even can Perm-Stealth up to 15 minutes.

OP
I had almost the same experience like yours and guess what, when i posted the thread about, all thieves except 2 said that it was an exploit.

I hope this help support your experience.

You are not alone Op.

With 1 year+ gw2 Anniversary, Perma-Stealth Thieves are still controling and abusing wvw.

Yes,

Arena.net know about it!

and they Don’t Care!

Just use a stealth trap.

VomitSpit.6843:

Just use a stealth trap.

not worth the supply or the effort after 30 sec they can restealth and they got enough evades to stay alive for that time

use aoes and attacks, even in stealth they still take dmg…full dmg

Cynz.9437:

use aoes and attacks, even in stealth they still take dmg…full dmg

what if u dont have aoe or the aoe u got is all target related and btw most of the mesmer weapons require a target, also clones and phantasms. if u are a necro, no problem

that’s funny comming from mesmer as clones actually still attack thief even after stealth
not sure if it is bug or intended

also, if the thief sits in stealth he is not attacking you, the moment he attacks you you can actually use your clones etc.

depending what kind of thief it is, you can actually easily predict their moves as well: sr, black powder leave marks on the floor, cnd thief would need to be behind you to actually do dmg so as long as you don’t sit still and actually spin around and kite you would be fine

oh and since it is wvw, you can use NPC to abuse your spells same as thieves do it for CnD

i find fighting troll mesmers is actually more annoying that thieves as the moment you hit them they just produce another clone zzz

Cynz.9437:

that’s funny comming from mesmer as clones actually still attack thief even after stealth
not sure if it is bug or intended

also, if the thief sits in stealth he is not attacking you, the moment he attacks you you can actually use your clones etc.

depending what kind of thief it is, you can actually easily predict their moves as well: sr, black powder leave marks on the floor, cnd thief would need to be behind you to actually do dmg so as long as you don’t sit still and actually spin around and kite you would be fine

oh and since it is wvw, you can use NPC to abuse your spells same as thieves do it for CnD

i find fighting troll mesmers is actually more annoying that thieves

not really true as tonly the clone attack that was cast before u went invis will hit u the phantasms and clones are all on standby while u are invis. yes certain thiefes are predictable, but also it is a guessing game. if u are hit by a skilled thief, its game over for u.
well thank god i always carry scepter on me and it helps me to block a backstab.

selan.8354:

VomitSpit.6843:

Just use a stealth trap.

not worth the supply or the effort after 30 sec they can restealth and they got enough evades to stay alive for that time

30 seconds is enough time to CC a thief and pressure him. Keep in mind that a thief can’t spam skills forever. We too have cooldowns.

My ranger encounters a thief…I hit him with concussion shot—no effect, I hit him with cripple-no effect, I hit him multiple times with num 1-no effect. I wait until he is unstealthed and hit him with my Elite skill (Entangle)..no effect. I spend the next several seconds dodging him until I get killed.

Someone please tell me a counter I can use to defend myself and have an even chance to win?

Sreoom.3690:

ranger encounters a roamer

Someone please tell me a counter I can use to defend myself and have an even chance to win?

Fixed your post for you.

Pavel.8531:

Sreoom.3690:

ranger encounters a roamer

Someone please tell me a counter I can use to defend myself and have an even chance to win?

Fixed your post for you.

Thanks…I’d prefer a counter though

VomitSpit.6843:

selan.8354:

VomitSpit.6843:

Just use a stealth trap.

not worth the supply or the effort after 30 sec they can restealth and they got enough evades to stay alive for that time

30 seconds is enough time to CC a thief and pressure him. Keep in mind that a thief can’t spam skills forever. We too have cooldowns.

Still a load of crap.

Using a Stealth Trap which cost 15 badges and karma. Then blow 10 supply and HOPE the Thief actually steps on it. Just to get a chance at killing him.

And even if you do. He’ll just be back in a few minutes anyway.

That is not a reasonable counter.

Qqing cuz u cant beat someone. Stealth may b op in certain cirumstances, but it’s one of many features that brings diversity in game play. Nonetheless, rangers can counter stealth after the skills patch

Stealth traps are hilarious. Just wait until they use basilisk venom, use a stun break then a damage mitigation utility while placing it. They go down fast.

selan.8354:

VomitSpit.6843:

Just use a stealth trap.

not worth the supply or the effort after 30 sec they can restealth and they got enough evades to stay alive for that time

if you cant kill them in 30 secs while they cant stealth you have serious issues.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Stealth traps are hilarious. Just wait until they use basilisk venom, use a stun break then a damage mitigation utility while placing it. They go down fast.

You try it before? I doubt it. Theory crafting is nice. basilisk venom isn’t the only stun/interrupt thief has
You lose the trap once you are stun(interrupted) when placing the trap.

Sylli.3891:

just do something about exploit of permanent invisibility thife camping bay 3 AM. 2 of them was from a guild TIME. all there was doing was camping bay inner and permanent invisibility in the smoke if the other enemy and fsp take bay back, there just waiting for the buff to get off then 3 men is soloing 2 thife and 1 war. and if we take it there just do the same and keep getting high xp

and after the enemy AG got bay 20 men was running after the thife and after 5 min there gave up

sorry for my bad english

Sounds like the thief knew what he was doing.

nacario.9417:

Qqing cuz u cant beat someone. Stealth may b op in certain cirumstances, but it’s one of many features that brings diversity in game play. Nonetheless, rangers can counter stealth after the skills patch

the problem is not that i cant beat him he is easy to get down then i play my guard. but he will stand there for like a day if he want to. and its lame i have to wait for him to attack all he was doing was just running in stealth. just stand there all day long just to get 1-3 thife that is impossible to kill on a guard that have few aoe and no mobility.

Well now u can hug a ranger.. Every1 cant beat everythin

Viking Jorun.5413:

Stealth traps are hilarious. Just wait until they use basilisk venom, use a stun break then a damage mitigation utility while placing it. They go down fast.

They are hilarious indeed. Especially if they Basalisk venom you while you are placing the trap. You’ll notice your trap is now gone.

Hilarious indeed.

selan.8354:

Cynz.9437:

use aoes and attacks, even in stealth they still take dmg…full dmg

what if u dont have aoe or the aoe u got is all target related and btw most of the mesmer weapons require a target, also clones and phantasms. if u are a necro, no problem

I use these three things as a mesmer:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Temporal_Curtain — just when they think they’re running away.. oh nooooo you don’t! muwhaaha!

And I LOVE using this one on a thief:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Moa_Morph

Surprises them every time. Hilarious to watch the freaked out reaction and running away.

And this, when you see that circle spell going down on the ground to cloak (they have to remain in that circle a set period of time or lose the stealth — and don’t use the spell until you see that ground circle):

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Wave

knocks em right out of that circle and exposes them every time

Dead thief 90% of the time, especially if trapped in a small zone like inner — and if they leap over the wall to flee? Even better. Other 10% is running away thief.

Drop a stealth trap, stand on top of it (most theives can’t resist coming and trying to gank you — or drop one at a gate, they tend to use those a lot to regen the stealth) and use any of those three listed above in combination = dead thief.

Also remember, as a memser, you can spec yourself to have almost the same equivalent of stealth as a thief. So you can play hours and hours of hide n’ seek.

P.S. The moa thing is mostly just to amuse you, really.

Terrahero.9358:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Stealth traps are hilarious. Just wait until they use basilisk venom, use a stun break then a damage mitigation utility while placing it. They go down fast.

They are hilarious indeed. Especially if they Basalisk venom you while you are placing the trap. You’ll notice your trap is now gone.

Hilarious indeed.

Stability. The solution is kittening great.

And yes, I’ve done it on multiple occasions mid-combat.

insanemaniac.2456:

selan.8354:

VomitSpit.6843:

Just use a stealth trap.

not worth the supply or the effort after 30 sec they can restealth and they got enough evades to stay alive for that time

if you cant kill them in 30 secs while they cant stealth you have serious issues.

because a thief is not capable of spamming 2 to get away from you, god forbid if he has a shortbow.
you know since all classes have 1800+ movement skills.

I just can’t figure out how you can even hit thiefs. They pop out of stealth and if you are super fast you might get them in target and then they just stealth again before you can use any skills. Most of time i am not even fast enough to get them in target.

It helps to understand how stealth and revealed works.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

Junkpile.7439:

I just can’t figure out how you can even hit thiefs. They pop out of stealth and if you are super fast you might get them in target and then they just stealth again before you can use any skills. Most of time i am not even fast enough to get them in target.

Does your class have any channeling spells? If so, the minute he pops out of stealth spam it … The channel will follow the thief, hitting him even in stealth, until the spell times out.

Dagraan.2854:

insanemaniac.2456:

selan.8354:

VomitSpit.6843:

Just use a stealth trap.

not worth the supply or the effort after 30 sec they can restealth and they got enough evades to stay alive for that time

if you cant kill them in 30 secs while they cant stealth you have serious issues.

because a thief is not capable of spamming 2 to get away from you, god forbid if he has a shortbow.
you know since all classes have 1800+ movement skills.

inside the inner courtyard of a keep, there is only so much space to run. and thieves only have 1 long cd source of stability. seriously, if youre stealth trapping some kitten in the middle of nowhere youre doing it wrong anyways. and if your inner wall is down you have bigger problems than a single thief.

Thorp.7982:

It helps to understand how stealth and revealed works.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

i have look on the Revealed part but then i see a thife he can go stealth just 1 sec after he is revealed. so u cant see him and he can keep it up because the thife got no cooldown. that why i say some thife exploit that u cant see them.

Easy to stop the perma-stealthing if you know how it’s done. Just stand next to the black powder field (not in it or you get blinded). The thief stacks stealth by heartseeking through the black powder field over and over and over. If you’re anywhere near the black powder field, the heartseeker will hit you and the thief will get a 3s revealed debuff.

Stealth overall is OP, but this specific problem is a l2p issue.

Sylli.3891:

Thorp.7982:

It helps to understand how stealth and revealed works.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

i have look on the Revealed part but then i see a thife he can go stealth just 1 sec after he is revealed. so u cant see him and he can keep it up because the thife got no cooldown. that why i say some thife exploit that u cant see them.

“Revealed is an effect applied when stealth is broken, for example by attacking or exiting the Shadow Refuge circle prematurely”

If they don’t attack or leave SR early they don’t get the revealed debuff. It’s not an exploit.

ResJudicator.7916:

Easy to stop the perma-stealthing if you know how it’s done. Just stand next to the black powder field (not in it or you get blinded). The thief stacks stealth by heartseeking through the black powder field over and over and over. If you’re anywhere near the black powder field, the heartseeker will hit you and the thief will get a 3s revealed debuff.

Stealth overall is OP, but this specific problem is a l2p issue.

That works far more often than it should tbh. Why this works is because the first and only first HS through the BP can land and you will still gain stealth (because stealth is given at the end of the leap finisher). After that first one it’s an attack made from stealth and they gain the revealed debuff.

Also Mr Ranger… check the patch preview…

“Ranger
Sick ‘Em will now apply ‘Revealed” to enemies they target. We want to introduce some counter play to Stealth (players have asked for that for a while), so we thought a pet “catching your scent” might be a cool way to insinuate some anti-stealth into the game. "

insanemaniac.2456:

selan.8354:

VomitSpit.6843:

Just use a stealth trap.

not worth the supply or the effort after 30 sec they can restealth and they got enough evades to stay alive for that time

if you cant kill them in 30 secs while they cant stealth you have serious issues.

i kill thieves with torment a lot as i run tormenting runes, but with 30 secs it happened quite a few times that the thief just out ran me in those 30 secs and on my mesmer i dont hae blink eqyipped as i have more of a v build than a roaming build. i dont think they are unkillable, but they sure are a pain to kill.

If you knew a thief or two was in inner, you should have posted a few people on inner, 2 would have been good at the very least, shouldn’t need much more than that.

The players sweeping also gave up after 5 minutes without killing the thieves. See previous statement on what you should have done.

This is what I think thieves should actually be doing. Covert stealth stuff. I do not feel they are exploiting.

If you give up on the sweep, it is your fault.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If you give up on the sweep, it is your fault.

This, pretty much.

But I think he means even after the enemy flipped Bay, they couldn’t kill him either and gave up. One thief can’t do a heck of a lot vs a Lord and added npcs though. Unless there was a dead Mesmer somewhere.

Being able to permastealth (uh…permanently) is completely possible on a thief. You rob yourself of a lot of fighting ability, but you can stay hidden indefinitely.

It’s not an exploit.

VomitSpit.6843:

selan.8354:

VomitSpit.6843:

Just use a stealth trap.

not worth the supply or the effort after 30 sec they can restealth and they got enough evades to stay alive for that time

We too have cooldowns.

no you don’t you have initiative which is spammable.

knight.8926:

VomitSpit.6843:

selan.8354:

VomitSpit.6843:

Just use a stealth trap.

not worth the supply or the effort after 30 sec they can restealth and they got enough evades to stay alive for that time

We too have cooldowns.

no you don’t you have initiative which is spammable.

Until it runs out. Afterwards we have to wait. Lets not forget a majority of these spammable skills are either high cost or high utility save maybe 1 on our bar.

Zacchary.6183:

knight.8926:

VomitSpit.6843:

selan.8354:

VomitSpit.6843:

Just use a stealth trap.

not worth the supply or the effort after 30 sec they can restealth and they got enough evades to stay alive for that time

We too have cooldowns.

no you don’t you have initiative which is spammable.

Until it runs out. Afterwards we have to wait. Lets not forget a majority of these spammable skills are either high cost or high utility save maybe 1 on our bar.

Indeed… if you stop a thief mid heartseeker through his black powder he’s pretty kittened… and with practice that’s really not hard to do on some classes (just as an example).

Sylli.3891:

just do something about exploit of permanent invisibility thife camping bay 3 AM. 2 of them was from a guild TIME. all there was doing was camping bay inner and permanent invisibility in the smoke if the other enemy and fsp take bay back, there just waiting for the buff to get off then 3 men is soloing 2 thife and 1 war. and if we take it there just do the same and keep getting high xp

and after the enemy AG got bay 20 men was running after the thife and after 5 min there gave up

sorry for my bad english

Oh wow. Thieves can do that? I never knew! sarcasm

Aberrant.6749:

Sylli.3891:

Thorp.7982:

It helps to understand how stealth and revealed works.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

i have look on the Revealed part but then i see a thife he can go stealth just 1 sec after he is revealed. so u cant see him and he can keep it up because the thife got no cooldown. that why i say some thife exploit that u cant see them.

“Revealed is an effect applied when stealth is broken, for example by attacking or exiting the Shadow Refuge circle prematurely”

If they don’t attack or leave SR early they don’t get the revealed debuff. It’s not an exploit.

ResJudicator.7916:

Easy to stop the perma-stealthing if you know how it’s done. Just stand next to the black powder field (not in it or you get blinded). The thief stacks stealth by heartseeking through the black powder field over and over and over. If you’re anywhere near the black powder field, the heartseeker will hit you and the thief will get a 3s revealed debuff.

Stealth overall is OP, but this specific problem is a l2p issue.

That works far more often than it should tbh. Why this works is because the first and only first HS through the BP can land and you will still gain stealth (because stealth is given at the end of the leap finisher). After that first one it’s an attack made from stealth and they gain the revealed debuff.

Also Mr Ranger… check the patch preview…

“Ranger
Sick ‘Em will now apply ‘stealth ” to enemies they target. We want to introduce some counter play to Stealth (players have asked for that for a while), so we thought a pet “catching your scent” might be a cool way to insinuate some anti-stealth into the game. "

but that not what im saying. then he Revealed there back in stealth and it say that it take 3 sec before u can do so but he is going in stealth just ½-1 sec after he got Revealed

Aberrant.6749:

Zacchary.6183:

knight.8926:

VomitSpit.6843:

selan.8354:

VomitSpit.6843:

Just use a stealth trap.

not worth the supply or the effort after 30 sec they can restealth and they got enough evades to stay alive for that time

We too have cooldowns.

no you don’t you have initiative which is spammable.

Until it runs out. Afterwards we have to wait. Lets not forget a majority of these spammable skills are either high cost or high utility save maybe 1 on our bar.

Indeed… if you stop a thief mid heartseeker through his black powder he’s pretty kittened… and with practice that’s really not hard to do on some classes (just as an example).

and if u got 3 thife this guys just buff the 1 that u can see

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

If you knew a thief or two was in inner, you should have posted a few people on inner, 2 would have been good at the very least, shouldn’t need much more than that.

The players sweeping also gave up after 5 minutes without killing the thieves. See previous statement on what you should have done.

This is what I think thieves should actually be doing. Covert stealth stuff. I do not feel they are exploiting.

If you give up on the sweep, it is your fault.

ye but if u call out that i need help and no 1 come then what more can i do

Easily fixable, once a keep, tower, or garrison is taken over, all enemies are immediately ported out back to their home base.

Though some like the idea on thinking it’s a strategy and that’s what’s sweeping is for.. realistically it’s just a complete waste of time. Time cannot be replaced, don’t waste it, just send the enemies out of the structure back to their own base and allow them to regroup from there.

Coming from a Thief, perma-invis or any stealth of that sort is easy to counter assuming you are a competent player.

If the Thief opens on you without you being aware whatsoever, then unfortunately there’s nothing really to do about it, but they can’t burst you down completely. Even a fully zerker Thief with dmg food and bloodlust can’t 1 hit kill you unless you yourself are glass cannon. If he uses the basilisk venom, just stun break and evade…

If you see him running towards you however then stealth, just keep on swinging and roughly time how long it would take him to get to you, and evade at that time. It takes practice sure but it works.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Terrahero.9358:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Stealth traps are hilarious. Just wait until they use basilisk venom, use a stun break then a damage mitigation utility while placing it. They go down fast.

They are hilarious indeed. Especially if they Basalisk venom you while you are placing the trap. You’ll notice your trap is now gone.

Hilarious indeed.

Stability. The solution is kittening great.

And yes, I’ve done it on multiple occasions mid-combat.

If they still step on it then, they were complete idiots because the trap radius is fairly small. And they can just shadowstep/infiltrator arrow across it if they need to.

Point remains, you wasted 10 supply from your server on just a single Thief. If i could throw my life away in WvW while taking 10 supply of the enemy with me i’d consider that a very good trade. Thief might not even die anyway.

Its not a viable counter.

10 supply replenishes after 30 seconds at supply camps.

Still, it’s not a valid counter.

Having played a thief for quite a while now i do feel stealth is a big issue. If the thief is half decent and doesn’t screw up it’s very difficult if not impossible to take him down. It’s pretty much the only class that can get away easily in extreme situations and i don’t think that’s fair.

I do feel though that a thief doesn’t really have many more tools if you take that one away. You have pretty much no access to regen or other viable forms of healing and you’ll still be quite squishy even though trying to find a balance.
To be honest I find it very difficult to think about some way to nerf stealth to the point that it will have a counterplay but not so much that will screw up completely most stealth builds.

Maybe giving others some limited tools to detect stealth targets could somehow work

Next patch apparently ranger pets will detect/remove(?) stealth.

Jayne.9251:

Next patch apparently ranger pets will detect/remove(?) stealth.

“Sic em” will let your pet catch enemy’s scent and hit them through stealth, yes.

Guardian staff can flush them out. I hope you have a guardian on your server. >.>