Guild Wars 2

give rangers a new pet [fox hound etc] that on F2 will sniff out [reveal] close enemy (240-360 radius?) in stealth .

momentarily rangers will be welcomed to WWW and the thief epidemic will stop.

it is also unnecessary nerf to veil, but what can you do….

Who cares about stealth in wvw ? The only good use for stealth in pvp is veils.
No one cares about roamers and i don’t see a particularly big amount of thieves in wvw either…
I’m guessing you’re a troll or just kitten after being killed by thieves.

Fenrir.6183:

Who cares about stealth in wvw ? The only good use for stealth in pvp is veils.
No one cares about roamers and i don’t see a particularly big amount of thieves in wvw either…
I’m guessing you’re a troll or just kitten after being killed by thieves.

I’m guessing you are one who does not care about stealth in wvw? But the op does. Personally I like the idea, I’m sure thieves will hate it and maybe mesmers. But then mesmers are usually further away than the proposed radii.

I wouldn’t see this as a nerf to thieves although I understand why it would be considered as such, but as a bump to rangers.

Tell me more about how a thief killed you with stealth. Personally, I don’t use stealth so any nerfs to it don’t affect me in any way, but this won’t fix either class.

Thieves will still stealth; Rangers will still suck.

Lalangamena.3694:

give rangers a new pet [fox hound etc] that on F2 will sniff out [reveal] close enemy (240-360 radius?) in stealth .

momentarily rangers will be welcomed to WWW and the thief epidemic will stop.

it is also unnecessary nerf to veil, but what can you do….

I main a thief…but I think this would be fair. The F2 should probably deal some damage though or else the pet would be incredibly niche and not used anywhere outside of solo roaming in WvW…which would be a shame since foxes are awesome.

However, I don’t think this would really make much of a difference for rangers being desired in WvW since the skill would still be pretty useless in zergs.

Dahkeus.8243:

Lalangamena.3694:

give rangers a new pet [fox hound etc] that on F2 will sniff out [reveal] close enemy (240-360 radius?) in stealth .

momentarily rangers will be welcomed to WWW and the thief epidemic will stop.

it is also unnecessary nerf to veil, but what can you do….

I main a thief…but I think this would be fair. The F2 should probably deal some damage though or else the pet would be incredibly niche and not used anywhere outside of solo roaming in WvW…which would be a shame since foxes are awesome.

However, I don’t think this would really make much of a difference for rangers being desired in WvW since the skill would still be pretty useless in zergs.

Or if the current F2 skills worked everytime they were pressed, rangers would be in a much better place…they simply do not work reliably.

Rangers already got PBS on Longbow which is a great counter to both Hide in Shadows and Shadow Refuge. And Sick ’em = 4s revealed

Dont get to greedy bro…

Bredin.5368:

Dahkeus.8243:

Lalangamena.3694:

give rangers a new pet [fox hound etc] that on F2 will sniff out [reveal] close enemy (240-360 radius?) in stealth .

momentarily rangers will be welcomed to WWW and the thief epidemic will stop.

it is also unnecessary nerf to veil, but what can you do….

I main a thief…but I think this would be fair. The F2 should probably deal some damage though or else the pet would be incredibly niche and not used anywhere outside of solo roaming in WvW…which would be a shame since foxes are awesome.

However, I don’t think this would really make much of a difference for rangers being desired in WvW since the skill would still be pretty useless in zergs.

Or if the current F2 skills worked everytime they were pressed, rangers would be in a much better place…they simply do not work reliably.

They work reliably, but they don’t work instantaneously*

But yes, there are a lot of clunky mechanics that hinder rangers, such as the 1h sword main attack, which is why I rerolled from one. =P

I think we should give rangers the thief stealth and give the pets to the thieves.

Reveal is useless on thieves. Stealth traps are the only real hard counter and the cast time/requirements make them ideal in anything less than zerg fights, and in zerg fights they are never used anyway. Your proposed reveal would be on a long cooldown and the 3-4 seconds you suggest is not enough to put down a thief when they can still spam blinds, teleport, and just generally avoid damage. Then they are back to stealth spamming.

How to fix ranger:

1. Uncouple it from the pet. Seperate all pet abilities, pet dependant traits, anything and everything from the pet. Give the ranger complete control when the pet comes out and when it doesnt instead of automatic. Put the pet as an “optional” way to play, instead of forced way to play.

2. Fix the sword auto attack chain.

3. Boost some actual (non-pet) ranger condi removal, stun-break, abilities or lower their CDs.

4. Remove the self-rooting from LB AOE.

How to fix thief:

1. Improve thieves play on PvE dungeon encounters, especially on boss fights, make it a bit more survivable and less dependant on stealth or evade spam.

2. Introdcue and Implement some stealth and perma-evade conterplay for every available profession/class in the game.

3. Seperate thieves condi-removal from stealth. Introduce and impliment non-stealth dependant active, not passive condi removal.

These would open new options, new builds and much more fun play-counterplay for both classes.

teg.1340:

Rangers already got PBS on Longbow which is a great counter to both Hide in Shadows and Shadow Refuge. And Sick ’em = 4s revealed

Dont get to greedy bro…

Anything stealthed can’t be hit with direct fire, so PBS is useless at that time. Rangers need more than the pathetic damage boost on skill 1 for longbow. Wow, I did just a little more damage before the enemy closes with me ignoring the tickle I just gave them.

1. Rangers need an overall damage boost on Longbow. +20-30% on all Longbow skills.
2. They need to have a skill that makes them truly able “take down enemies at long range”(ANeT statement). Let’s say Head/Heart shot. Does a massive amount of damage, causes bleeding and stun(makes skills start recycle timing on target) can’t be blocked and ignores armor and negates invulnerable skill(doing normal damage). Make warriors actually fear seeing a ranger. This would be a burst damage skill. Add the effect to a signet that boosts damage output with bows, but when active it becomes “kill shot”. Uses skill 1 as its attack button.
3. Rangers are suppose to trackers. We should be able to ignore stealth at a certain range. And we should be able to target a stealthed enemy with direct fire weapons. Imagine how much more valuable a ranger would become.
4. Always move at 25% speed boost – no signet required.

Just 4 little ideas.

Heibi.4251:

Anything stealthed can’t be hit with direct fire, so PBS is useless at that time.

Hide in Shadows most often is used while unstealthed. It has a 1s casttime with an telegraphed animation, thus can easily be interrupted by decent rangers via PBS. It also works for Shadow Refuge because there’s a small delay before the first pulse fires and grants stealth to the thief. It happens to me every now and then that a decent Ranger manages to knock me out of Refuge.

Both situations are crucial for thieves to survive. Break their stealth cycle and you win.

Sword attack chain is the best that ever happened to the ranger! Simply don’t use auto attack. When you control the chain your target cannot run away.

For stealth removal rangers already have “sick ’em”. It is sufficient to reveal thieves long enough to kill them. Also try the lightning breath from the river drake as it follos the thieve like rapid fire even in stealth.

This another one of those skill clicking keyboard turning zerker rangers???

If Anet implemented 1/2 of the stuff I’ve read on how to fix thieves this game would lose a class.

I don’t even have a thief and this witch hunt is insulting

Fenrir.6183:

Who cares about stealth in wvw ? The only good use for stealth in pvp is veils.
No one cares about roamers and i don’t see a particularly big amount of thieves in wvw either…
I’m guessing you’re a troll or just kitten after being killed by thieves.

Exactly this . . . i don’t know why the heck people cry about stealth.

WvW is about capturing keeps and towers . . . . Why some one care about roamers!???

Tongku.5326:

How to fix ranger:

1. Uncouple it from the pet. Seperate all pet abilities, pet dependant traits, anything and everything from the pet. Give the ranger complete control when the pet comes out and when it doesnt instead of automatic. Put the pet as an “optional” way to play, instead of forced way to play.

2. Fix the sword auto attack chain.

3. Boost some actual (non-pet) ranger condi removal, stun-break, abilities or lower their CDs.

4. Remove the self-rooting from LB AOE.

How to fix thief:

1. Improve thieves play on PvE dungeon encounters, especially on boss fights, make it a bit more survivable and less dependant on stealth or evade spam.

2. Introdcue and Implement some stealth and perma-evade conterplay for every available profession/class in the game.

3. Seperate thieves condi-removal from stealth. Introduce and impliment non-stealth dependant active, not passive condi removal.

These would open new options, new builds and much more fun play-counterplay for both classes.

So basically you want to make thief class . . . warrior class?

Man the class was designed to be like this, also mesmer, and warriors.

Stop trying to change the essence of the classes!!!

but i liked the ranger suggestions xD.

You know every class can easily kill a thief when played well . . . the problem is the mass of people that runs berserker builds with no gaming skills at all.

I don’t see anything wrong with having a pet like that as an option, though I don’t think it would be a good option.

Stealth destroys new players, and does it in a way that makes them feel helpless – but it’s an issue that goes away with experience. If I’m murdering a ranger way out of position I’d much rather face a dumb stealth reveal than another stun from a dog.

It would mostly be a counter to veils and refuges, not the in combat short duration stealths – which might be healthy, but is certainly not what the OP had in mind.

Just make building a stealth trap stealth you while you build it lol.

“Nope, my warrior didn’t just get stealth from a stealth trap to break your stealth cause stealth is ridiculous as is”
;-)

teg.1340:

Rangers already got PBS on Longbow which is a great counter to both Hide in Shadows and Shadow Refuge. And Sick ’em = 4s revealed

Dont get to greedy bro…

Sick ’em doesnt work, honestly. The delay by the time you get your pet to actually do what you say when pressing F2, the thief has already stealthed and your Sick ’em was wasted and does not work.

There is just too much delay with the stupid pets. I would rather just stow them in WvW and take a buff to my dps.

I always thought it was really weird that warriors get a huge single target ranged ability while rangers… don’t…

Would love if they would replace LB 5 with a snipe type attack.

Kitiara.2706:

There is just too much delay with the stupid pets. I would rather just stow them in WvW and take a buff to my dps.

They should separate pet-ai from general mob-ai and start work on making them work better.

They should make stealth only stack twice. A thief will get max 12 seconds stealth. WAY more then enough time to get things done. The condi clear/10 sec and stuff like that much be adjusted to the new system ofc.

gpassucc.5961:

I always thought it was really weird that warriors get a huge single target ranged ability while rangers… don’t…

Would love if they would replace LB 5 with a snipe type attack.

Then we would only have 4 AOE’s left, namely traps, and the profession would be rejected from WvW forever.
No 1500 range barrage = less useful then a thief in WvW.

Do rangers even need a buff in WvW? Despite what all the top players say about how poor the class truly is for WvW in every single thread on the subject there are dedicated ranger players that keep telling us we aren’t “rangering” properly and so on. I say Anet shouldn’t buff the class at all for WvW if so many vocal power rangers think the class is so awesome.

Remove pets from ranger ability, and apply buff to the ranger when running without it. It’s insane that my ranger has 3500 attack and still hits like a wet noodle.

aspirine.6852:

Remove pets from ranger ability, and apply buff to the ranger when running without it. It’s insane that my ranger has 3500 attack and still hits like a wet noodle.

This. And don’t tie so many traits and utilities into the broken pets. Do this and the ranger will suddenly become viable in not just WvW but the rest of the game as well.

I love pets. In GW1 I always ran with pets. In GW2 they are broken and anet is unwilling to fix them.

Eir Jordan.2156:

Do rangers even need a buff in WvW? Despite what all the top players say about how poor the class truly is for WvW in every single thread on the subject there are dedicated ranger players that keep telling us we aren’t “rangering” properly and so on. I say Anet shouldn’t buff the class at all for WvW if so many vocal power rangers think the class is so awesome.

A lot of players think that ever since pets became unable to do 8k crits with every other strike the whole profession became useless. Sure, BM Bunker isn’t what it used to be, sure quickness builds are unviable (that goes for all the quickness builds that warriors and thieves had too), however people seem to think that because the profession is named “Ranger” as in “Range” as in “It has bow and name mentions Range” it must be a “Ranged” profession. That is wrong, if you look up what a Ranger is you will be told by pretty much any dictionary, that it is a man or woman of the wild that ranges the land. Now, to “range the land” means that you travel outdoors, venture into places with no roads or infrastructure.

Rangers often carry bows, because bows are a good hunting weapon, however just because you carry a bow for practical reasons, it still does NOT make you an archer. That is where people fail. They wholeheartedly believes rangers MUST use a bow. That the Longbow/Shortbow is supposed to be their ultimate weapon, the strongest, the best, the most destructive. It is not. While the LB is strong, it is not a do-all-be-all weapon.

Same with pets, people think that their pets should be used as damage sponges, therefore they try out different pets, realize that oh, my dog/cat/bird/moa/drake cannot tank as well as i though, dang it, bear it is.
That is wrong, you do not use the pet just as a damage sponge. It is a utility. Many forget that, and treat the pets as fire-and-forget. Yet the pet is designed to be a part of your combat ability, neglecting it is like neglecting your own character in terms of armor and weapons.

So until people can learn, be it the hard way or not, that a Ranger is NOT AN ARCHER, AND NOT MEANT TO BE, then they will fail with it. Until people learn to use pets for the right reasons and occasions, they will fail as a Ranger. Therefore, it IS a L2P issue in most cases.

A third issue is that WvW players seem to think that the ranger must fulfill the criteria of being as durable as a warrior, with the group support of a guardian, the utility mechanics of a mesmer, while spamming codies like a necro and having the direct damage of a thief. In the end, it cannot, and no other profession there is, can fulfill all those roles. Yet, that is what the “Pro WvW players” seem to believe the ranger must do to be viable.

So according to you I should go out and range the land and be happy with it?

aspirine.6852:

So according to you I should go out and range the land and be happy with it?

No, you should stop thinking the LB and a brown bear is the solution to all your issues. Not saying the two cannot be destructive, but the skill needed to not rallybot while using full zerker on a ranger is well, exceptionally high.

Rangers just need to learn how and when to use the correct pet, and when to use a bow or not. Also highest DPS comes from sword, not LB or GS.

Prysin.8542:

Same with pets, people think that their pets should be used as damage sponges, therefore they try out different pets, realize that oh, my dog/cat/bird/moa/drake cannot tank as well as i though, dang it, bear it is.
That is wrong, you do not use the pet just as a damage sponge. It is a utility. Many forget that, and treat the pets as fire-and-forget. Yet the pet is designed to be a part of your combat ability, neglecting it is like neglecting your own character in terms of armor and weapons.

So until people can learn, be it the hard way or not, that a Ranger is NOT AN ARCHER, AND NOT MEANT TO BE, then they will fail with it. Until people learn to use pets for the right reasons and occasions, they will fail as a Ranger. Therefore, it IS a L2P issue in most cases.

A third issue is that WvW players seem to think that the ranger must fulfill the criteria of being as durable as a warrior, with the group support of a guardian, the utility mechanics of a mesmer, while spamming codies like a necro and having the direct damage of a thief. In the end, it cannot, and no other profession there is, can fulfill all those roles. Yet, that is what the “Pro WvW players” seem to believe the ranger must do to be viable.

I think people would be happy if rangers could do any one of those things. The problem is the ranger can’ do anything better than another class and they have the handicap of being saddled with a broken pet on top of it.

Pets are a utility but they don’t work well. Their active utilities don’t cast when you want them to, they can’t hit a moving target, they aggro random mobs putting you in combat, get wiped out by aoe, etc.

Rangers aren’t useless in WvW, they make decent roamers when played right and sadly numbers are more important than skill in a zerg fight so having a little extra weak dps is better than not having anyone at all. But don’t try to defend them and say they are just as viable as the other professions or anet might listen and never fix the class.

Prysin.8542:

aspirine.6852:

So according to you I should go out and range the land and be happy with it?

No, you should stop thinking the LB and a brown bear is the solution to all your issues. Not saying the two cannot be destructive, but the skill needed to not rallybot while using full zerker on a ranger is well, exceptionally high.

Rangers just need to learn how and when to use the correct pet, and when to use a bow or not. Also highest DPS comes from sword, not LB or GS.

i use sword/axe LB or sb depending on the situation. Swords does acceptable damage at 3500 attack, both bows however do not. The pets are next to useless because they hit nothing. So when they decide to give the option to use pets or disable them I will cheer. But they wont because that’s about the same as saying we screwed up with the concept of the ranger.
Played gw1? Atleast there you had the option to bring your pet or not.

Sadly i did not get the chance to play GW1 when it was still very much alive and kicking. I wish i had picked it up back in the days.

At 3200-3500 Attack, the LB AA will do about 2200 (Tanky specs) to 5300 (Glassy specs) between the 500-1500 range. That damage is consistent, not erratic.

How much Precision / Critical Damage and buffs were involved in those numbers?

At longer ranges the skill coefficient for Long Range Shot is quite decent, at least for a ranged auto-attack.

BTW, GW1 rangers were in no better spot then GW2 rangers, at least for DPS. They did bring decent control (interrupts and cripple) to GvG – and a decent ability to split/solo.

Dahkeus.8243:

Lalangamena.3694:

give rangers a new pet [fox hound etc] that on F2 will sniff out [reveal] close enemy (240-360 radius?) in stealth .

momentarily rangers will be welcomed to WWW and the thief epidemic will stop.

it is also unnecessary nerf to veil, but what can you do….

I main a thief…but I think this would be fair. The F2 should probably deal some damage though or else the pet would be incredibly niche and not used anywhere outside of solo roaming in WvW…which would be a shame since foxes are awesome.

However, I don’t think this would really make much of a difference for rangers being desired in WvW since the skill would still be pretty useless in zergs.

Just like how our pig pets’ F2 is sniff out a random object that is never useful (glob of gunk) that enemy players can pick up and even use against us.

frans.8092:

How much Precision / Critical Damage and buffs were involved in those numbers?

At longer ranges the skill coefficient for Long Range Shot is quite decent, at least for a ranged auto-attack.

BTW, GW1 rangers were in no better spot then GW2 rangers, at least for DPS. They did bring decent control (interrupts and cripple) to GvG – and a decent ability to split/solo.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQJATRjIVB2JWGWs2Bg1DC7bw+BN5MMkxTeVjWB-j0CBYOA4OQEEQUBApqFRjtSqIas6aY6VLqW5Cw6LY+ELqWKgIWGB-w

That’s my Glass build. Well, its not that glassy really, but it does nice damage. Most of the time, i can take 3-4 shots from a D/D thief, so its not so bad. Considering the build itself is geared towards maximum damage. Signets grant me stability, instakill ability with GS (against a glass thief i can hit in excess of 10k with GS), and not to mention 6 seconds invuln. Bear is cuz well, i got 0 condition removal, and against condition classes, its all about kill fast or be killed. Against condi necros i got about 30% chance to win if they start the fight, 70% if i start it. Anything else, be it warriors or thieves or mesmers comes down to skill.

EDIT; Sometimes, i run Sword+Dagger instead of GS, and Entangle instead of Rampage as One. Simply because once you let it rip with the sword AA, if they cannot get away from you, you dish out 2k crits incredibly fast. No problem being rooted if the enemy is rooted too.

WatchTheShow.7203:

Dahkeus.8243:

Lalangamena.3694:

give rangers a new pet [fox hound etc] that on F2 will sniff out [reveal] close enemy (240-360 radius?) in stealth .

momentarily rangers will be welcomed to WWW and the thief epidemic will stop.

it is also unnecessary nerf to veil, but what can you do….

I main a thief…but I think this would be fair. The F2 should probably deal some damage though or else the pet would be incredibly niche and not used anywhere outside of solo roaming in WvW…which would be a shame since foxes are awesome.

However, I don’t think this would really make much of a difference for rangers being desired in WvW since the skill would still be pretty useless in zergs.

Just like how our pig pets’ F2 is sniff out a random object that is never useful (glob of gunk) that enemy players can pick up and even use against us.

You shouldnt laugh at pigs. Running 30/30/0/0/10 with Moment of Clarity and GS + SB. If you get Stone or Bone, which both applies stun, you can stunlock an enemy very easily. You can do this while doing 15k crits in a glass build. You’d be ridiculously glassy though, but the build is solid. Oh and don’t be fooled, that bird, once it gets going with the mightstacking from my attacks, it will do 2×2k crits very very often. Blind is also nice to have.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQJARVjIVB2JWGWo2Bg1DC9bQ2jDTcxXhYTZCBRqVA-jECBYLBigAiWGI5pIaslVFRjVtATViIq2boIa1SBExyI-w