Guild Wars 2

So I have been playing a bit of WvWvW and noticed a lot of thieves love to use dagger storm where there are a congregation of enemies. I have to say its very effective but being on the receiving end its rather frustrating that they can jump in and get away. It is frustrating because I have tried all kinds of ways to punish it with my shortbow/greatsword ranger and hammer warrior and I have no positive results with stuns, immobilizes or cripples.

It seems to me that thieves are dagger storming with no consequences. How can I punish them for blatantly jumping into people to dagger storm? They must have some kind of protection but I don’t know what it is since I haven’t checked and now that I am looking for it… I don’t see people dagger storming -.-

They have stability, but not immunity. People just need to learn to focus them as soon as they start that.

Thief gets a choice between dieing or canceling.

Also, those are projectiles and can be reflected.

Can stability be turned into a condition by a condi necro?

Pro tip, anything that attacks super fast is owned by retaliation.

As a thief (can’t BELIEVE I’m giving this away)….
Dagger storm does the following, grants stability, reflects all projectiles, snares, and bleeds……

What I find to drive me out of a DS rush quicker than anything is just non-projectile based AOE (ie, Meteor Storm, Barrage, etc) [As a side note, the thief cluster bomb is reflected and SEEMS to do damage aoe to the attacking thief’s group, which sucks for the group unlucky enough to be grouped with such a noob]

As a rifle+S&B warrior I love thieves when they appear in the midst of us and start bladestorming. Why? Projectile reflecting shield block Plus, if they proc Spiked Armor, the retaliation is a cherry on top.

Well I nice trick I do when using dagger storm is to always combine it with Shadowstep. I port in the middle of the zerg, dagger storm in while monitoring my HP pool. When my HP pool is like 1/4, I port back to my orginal location to cast a heal. Rarely die to that trick unless I accidentally shadowstepped into a warrior and die with their 3 hit combo LOL.

Stability does NOT stop chill, cripple, or immobilize. I’ve been stopped often enough by a set of bolas when I turn into a tornado. >..>

and all of this just shows how broken they are in pvp. They have too many get aways with the high dmg output they have.

Also it DOES NOT grant retaliation…it is straight up 100% reflection…..retaliation still allows the player to take damage it just reflects a PORTION of it back on the attacker, also reflection does diddly to melee, so beat away on them.

Khalic.3561:

Stability does NOT stop chill, cripple, or immobilize. I’ve been stopped often enough by a set of bolas when I turn into a tornado. >..>

Thing is nets and bolas are projectile based so they are reflected :-P

so, the only counter is to be a guardian.. great!

as a warrior i tryed everything.. nothing works since he will evade every atack while doing that thing..

also, is it there something to refresh Cooldowns or this ability has like 2-3 sec CD? becouse i’ve seen not 1, but at least 20 thiefs just dancing, stoping for a sec, then doing it again.. stoping.. again..

You could dodge out of the way….just saying.

Guardians counter thieves so bad its not funny.

Truth be told, it does VERY LITTLE damage on it’s own…most of the damage is done by reflecting projectiles (which go in a straight line and hit the first target they come to [possibly someone other than the shooter]) stop shooting at them and you’ll see how laughable it really is

Adaneshade.2409:

Truth be told, it does VERY LITTLE damage on it’s own…most of the damage is done by reflecting projectiles (which go in a straight line and hit the first target they come to [possibly someone other than the shooter]) stop shooting at them and you’ll see how laughable it really is

Depends on how little your little is. I usually deal about 3k on crits and it crits alot. If you use that in the heat of the battle where HPs are either half of close to death, it makes a difference. Its just a matter on when you pull dagger storm.

Arkiels.9016:

You could dodge out of the way….just saying.

what I want to happen: I should be able to slam them over the head with my hammer if they get that close.

dodging isnt a proper balance. I mean they jump into a cluster of 10 people and get away for free

irk.2047:

Arkiels.9016:

You could dodge out of the way….just saying.

what I want to happen: I should be able to slam them over the head with my hammer if they get that close.

dodging isnt a proper balance. I mean they jump into a cluster of 10 people and get away for free

You CAN, that’s the point it does no more damage in melee range than it does at a distance….I think people just misunderstand what’s happening with it and run out of misguided fear

I don’t get how they get away free… did they kill anyone if you dodge out of the way??

Heck I can run in to a group of like 30-50 people, drop reflect shield and back peddle my way out…. I’m kind of missing what the point of your thread is??

A counter to blade storm is retaliation, a counter to not being hit by a massive dmg ability is to dodge.

as a dagger storm thief, feedback kills us, instantly.

BrunoBRS.5178:

as a dagger storm thief, feedback kills us, instantly.

Thank you for that. I’ve now decided on what to slot in my 3rd utility skill. ^.^

Arkiels.9016:

Heck I can run in to a group of like 30-50 people, drop reflect shield and back peddle my way out…. I’m kind of missing what the point of your thread is??

the point was to inform me on how to stop blade storm with my hammer warrior and shortbow/great sword ranger.

Arkiels.9016:

A counter to blade storm is retaliation, a counter to not being hit by a massive dmg ability is to dodge.

is dodging really the only option if I don’t have this skill? that is pretty lame

irk.2047:

Arkiels.9016:

Heck I can run in to a group of like 30-50 people, drop reflect shield and back peddle my way out…. I’m kind of missing what the point of your thread is??

the point was to inform me on how to stop blade storm with my hammer warrior and shortbow/great sword ranger.

Arkiels.9016:

A counter to blade storm is retaliation, a counter to not being hit by a massive dmg ability is to dodge.

is dodging really the only option if I don’t have this skill? that is pretty lame

Every class can dodge. Its a counter to every move.

Arkiels.9016:

Every class can dodge. Its a counter to every move.

a dodge is not a punish. Tell me how to punish it as the classes I posted above

Its counter is to stay in melee range and kill the Thief.
Thats it.

This ability doesn’t make them into a tank. They are just as squishy and it does no more damage at range than in melee. (unless your nuking them where it reflects)

As a guard i know the chaos a reflect can cause. The day people stop panicking is the day my dps stops.

Dodge….he waste bladestorm, now pound him…Duh.

Lucubration.8361:

BrunoBRS.5178:

as a dagger storm thief, feedback kills us, instantly.

Thank you for that. I’ve now decided on what to slot in my 3rd utility skill. ^.^

if you’re a mesmer without feedback, you’re doing something wrong. creating feedback bubbles on rezz with no/short cooldown makes for an amazing anti-projectile wall, both on PvP and on dungeons. my mesmer friend always says “leave the NPCs dead so i can abuse feedback” :P

Dagger storm is the counter to mindless zerg swarms. And cannot be countered when used is such a situation.

To clear up some confusion. Retaliation does not phase a thief in dagger storm, they gain 3000+ hp a second. The closer you are to dagger storm the more daggers you are hit by. Daggers bounce 3 times, each hit crits for 2k. Haste doubles the damage of dagger storm. The Thief can tp out at any time during the dagger storm. The more people around the more damage it does to everyone. With about 10 people around it should do about 10-15k to everyone not including the reflected projectiles.

I don’t always dagger storm but when i do, I do it with no less than 3 other thieves at the same time.

""Stand Your Ground!"
Grant stability to yourself and allies.
Stability: 5 s
Retaliation: 5 s
Breaks stun
Range: 600

Base is 297 dmg per hit and scales with power.

the magic of dagger storm is using it as a heal with SoA thieves.

with 120 heal per hit, i can heal more than i take damage during dagger storm, unless people know what they’re doing and nuke me with lava fonts and the like (rather than freaking out and using quickness + rapid fire… it happened lol)

When people see a thief look like he uses Blade storm twice in a row

a thief that steals first can get an ability from the target that allows them to staret spinning again just FYI

Yeah, I respected my warr last night especially to deal with these. went 30 into defense for spiked armor. Now they obliterate themselves.

shield block, reflect GG

use a reflect, retal, or escape ability. every class has multiple choices. guardian greatsword 2 is an extremely hard counter to it.

AS a well necro I drop a well of corruption on them turning their stability into fear, and that’s that.

Focus them – with melee, AoEs, and conditions NOT range.

Strip their retaliation and knock them down/stun/daze. Mesmer GS can strip with 3 then knockdown with 5. I’m sure Necros have a handful of ways to strip Stability.

Reflection – Magnetic Aura, Feedback, reflecting with shield, Wall of Reflection, etc.

Dodging is not a viable option. Even with 3 consecutive dodges you still have 3-4+ seconds left on their dagger storm. Dodging AWAY from them however is a different situation.

Arreyanne.2683:

When people see a thief look like he uses Blade storm twice in a row

a thief that steals first can get an ability from the target that allows them to staret spinning again just FYI

When a thief use steal on a Warrior player he gets the Whirlwind Axe skill which does not grant stability nor reflect projectiles/bleeds/cripples.

You realize the if you pop a reflect it is still a projectile lol. It will not hit the thief, it will just protect you. Only Retal will put the damage back on the thief because it is now turned into an effect and not a projectile

I love porting or sneaking behind zergs, Dropping caltrops on the most bunched group, dagger storming then stealing from any warrior I see. If I get a lot of melee hitting on me I just dodge away and use Infil arrow back towards my own zerg. These kind of tactics is really the only use a theif has to make a difference in w3. Killing someone about to attack a supply run 1v1 isn’t really a unique contribution because any class can do that and thief is the only class lacking a 1200 range DPS weapon, so we are always in close range (technically) if we are hitting you.

Hmmmm Reflect is a strange ability. I know in PvE if you attack a mob that has reflect up while you have reflect up, the last bounce will hit them. I assume it makes 3 reflects in PvP though so whoever initiates the attack takes the damage.

I suggest people keep ranged attacking me while i have DS up.

buki.3108:

Hmmmm Reflect is a strange ability. I know in PvE if you attack a mob that has reflect up while you have reflect up, the last bounce will hit them. I assume it makes 3 reflects in PvP though so whoever initiates the attack takes the damage.

I use dagger storm consistently and never get hit back by a reflect through my reflect

Knyx.5926:

because any class can do that and thief is the only class lacking a 1200 range DPS weapon, so we are always in close range (technically) if we are hitting you.

Convenient how thieves always seem to forget they have the best spammable AoE 1200 range skill in the game for WvW…. oh AND it’s a blast finisher…. oh AND it bleeds…. oh and did I mention the SEVEN HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN UNIT RADIUS?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cluster_Bomb

@ Shredicus lol… Best spammable?
It costs initiative, AND has a very slow projectile speed, probably one of the slowest in the game. I also would never call a GROUND targeted aoe spammable in the first place.
The bleed is minimal unless you are condition damage spec, which would sacrifice the on hit damage. You acting like an ability is somehow special because it has a combo finisher is also a laugh, thank you for that.

FYI: If you think it is really 1200, think about where that is on the AOE circle

With all of that outlined it still does not constitute as a 1200 range DPS weapon.

Knyx.5926:

I use dagger storm consistently and never get hit back by a reflect through my reflect

Hm. Maybe it does just magically poof the projectile away then lol.

you forgot a few things about cluster bomb:

It travels slower than runspeed with swiftness
It has a huge arch on it making take even longer to get to the target
It is based off a global replenishing class mechanic meaning that it is only spammable if you don’t want to use any other abilities
The cooldown on it is based on how close the thief is to the area hit (aka if it takes 4 seconds for the cluster bomb to get to the target it has a 4 sec cooldown)

Look if you thieves really cant hit a group of people standing on/below a wall with a 715 unit radius AoE …. I’m sorry but this game isn’t made for people like you.

If you can’t understand all the aspects of an ability and still blindly cry about it on the forums, you should take a look in the mirror and read you last post at the same time.

Teulux.6732:

If you can’t understand all the aspects of an ability and still blindly cry about it on the forums, you should take a look in the mirror and read you last post at the same time.

I’m just getting sick and tired of people not using the tools at their disposal and dismissing them as being “too hard” or “impractical” because you’re too impatient to actually learn your class. You should be thankful you have the tools you do at your disposal. If you really want inspiration take a look at the disabled gamer Aieron. He plays using his face ALONE because he took the time to really learn his class and understand what tools he had at his disposal.

Shredicus.8706:

Look if you thieves really cant hit a group of people standing on/below a wall with a 715 unit radius AoE …. I’m sorry but this game isn’t made for people like you.

Well maybe you like to stand below the walls, but at least on the servers My server (Maguuma) is matched up, the players have half a brain. Why would any other class need to be within our range if they have full 1200 range rotation weapon(s)???
Also like me and the other poster said, its travel time (projectile speed) is so slow, and the fact it makes us target the ground where we want it are all key facts that make it the OPPOSITE of spammable.
Noone in here was complaining about difficulty hitting targets, but that we don’t have a 1200 range weapon (1 skill hits the 1200 range mark at the edge of a circle is not a 1200 range weapon) and explaining to others that is why we are pigeon holed into the tactics complained about in this thread (IE Dagger storm)

If you simply want people to learn their classes then go to the players helping players section of the forums and make valid posts helping people looking for it.

There wasn’t a single post in this thread about cluster bomb and you come out of left field talking about how it is the god of AoE spells (which is untrue).

Yes it is strong no doubt. However it is simple to see that other classes have far more AoE abilities with utility AND damage. Making the thief low on the list when it comes to viable AoE classes for WvW.

Back to the topic at hand (not clusterbomb)

Daggerstorm has a lot of counters. The best counter for it is knowing exactly what it does and to not run AWAY from it but to run TO melee range of the thief using it.

As soon as people learn this any thief that ports in and dagger storms in a zerg will just instantly die. Simple as that. It is actually a pretty bad ability. It is only use able at the moment because people have no idea what it does.