Guild Wars 2

Ahoy da mates.

My Server ( Millers Sound) playing right now agenst the Seafarer´s Rest Server. And it seems that those guys mainly only use the “Turtel” tactic.

Ther are like 30, 40+ of them staying all together in 1 person and casting AoEs, heals, rez like hell.

From time to time ther is a mesmer wich teleport them from point to point.

All you can do about it is try to fear them and try to kill some of them, but this doesnt always work because of the lag this tactic makes.

So I wanted ask if ther is a better way to split/kill them ?

And does Anet support this kind of tactic?

1: siege has no AoE limit
2: one arrow cart is an annoyance. seven arrow carts is a death field.
3: catapults have a knockback.
4: ?
5: profit

“Find the mesmer, save the server!”
I´m quite sure you´ve got an assasination squad somewhere .. 5x thiefs permas stealth on a mission to seek & destroy – problem solved.
Use psychology .. those 30+ ppl, won´t have patience, to stay at one place, while theyr beloved mesmer is being freaquently killed, wherever he goes.

And this is yet another reason among the many why Mesmer portals need to be toned down, one class should not be able to change the entire tide of battle on it’s own like this when no other class can on their own.

What’s wrong with this kind of tactic? Tactic is tactic, easy deal. QQ more

At the moment this is a “working as intended” mechanic that most people despise, because it cheapens the WvW experience a great deal.

The best way to deal with a stack is to stay out of their range and build siege weapons to quickly dispatch them. You won’t have much luck spotting the mesmer if they’re invisible or under the effect of player culling, but you should always try anyway. Lack of mobility is the weakness of turtling in most cases, unless you have a highly organized group following a commander icon.

Warriors or other classes with stability and temporarily invulnerability can get inside of their group and wreak a little bit of havok. Other classes can cast AoE spells and then get out of the line of fire. Abilities which reflect projectiles are highly recommended. As long as you’re anticipating the stack you should be able to avoid their attacks.. but with player culling issues you often won’t see them before it’s too late.

A good stack will have permanent stability, permanent sanctuary (for knockback), walls of reflection, etc.. which is nearly impossible to deal with unless you create your own turtle or have well placed siege weapons at the ready.

itawashii.4087:

What’s wrong with this kind of tactic? Tactic is tactic, easy deal. QQ more

I assum that you are one of those who use this kind of “tactic” (lol), and is now starting to “QQ” because his best “tactic” (lol) is in target to might get nerved. So who “QQs” now?

However, the thing is that this produce a lot of lag.
When ther are 40+ who all cast an AoE at the same time, at the same place, it starts to sucks.

And with so much lag, its starts to get hard to find ther Mesmer, to run in and fear or to use a Guardian bubbel inside ther zerg to try to split them.

Dont get me wrong, I dont might loseing, I dont care about the ranking-system. I just like to have some nice (when possible) even fights.

And this “Turtel” tactic have at laest in my eyes nothing to do with an “tactic”. I mean, all you do is staying ther dumb and casting all you have. The guys who use such tactics dont even see the enemy because of ther mates staying in them.

They could play agenst bots and not even notice something.

Its totaly boring in my eyes.
Ok, it might be boring for me but not for them. right. But it destroys at laest my fun in WvW, because you see that those guys do it only for points, karma and kills, not for the fights.

It’s an example of the ‘arms race’ that occurs in most mmo pvp.. the game is still quite young and people are discovering new ways to fight using the mechanics to the best of there abilities

The aoe limit has lead us up to this point, while the tactic does have some ways to counter it it is more often far more taxing on the ones trying to break the ‘turtle’ then it is for the people who are gathered up doing it.

Either people will figure out a truely effective method of fighting it.. and the arms race will continue to the next strong tactic.. or things will grow stale and Anet might have to step in and adjust things to bring back some variety.

Domo.7618:

itawashii.4087:

What’s wrong with this kind of tactic? Tactic is tactic, easy deal. QQ more

I assum that you are one of those who use this kind of “tactic” (lol), and is now starting to “QQ” because his best “tactic” (lol) is in target to might get nerved. So who “QQs” now?

However, the thing is that this produce a lot of lag.
When ther are 40+ who all cast an AoE at the same time, at the same place, it starts to sucks.

And with so much lag, its starts to get hard to find ther Mesmer, to run in and fear or to use a Guardian bubbel inside ther zerg to try to split them.

Dont get me wrong, I dont might loseing, I dont care about the ranking-system. I just like to have some nice (when possible) even fights.

And this “Turtel” tactic have at laest in my eyes nothing to do with an “tactic”. I mean, all you do is staying ther dumb and casting all you have. The guys who use such tactics dont even see the enemy because of ther mates staying in them.

They could play agenst bots and not even notice something.

Its totaly boring in my eyes.
Ok, it might be boring for me but not for them. right. But it destroys at laest my fun in WvW, because you see that those guys do it only for points, karma and kills, not for the fights.

The lag would be just as bad if they were spread out, 40 people spamming aoe is 40 people spamming aoe, there is no difference for the server (nor for your performance so long as they are all close to you which they are if you’re fighting them).

There are counters, learn them, use them, collect loot.

Feedback bubbles.

Siege is a counter to this.

I’m not a fan of that tactic either: staying together to heal/buff.

Because no matter how many buffs you have or how many bubbles you put up… they’re useless against Elementalists’ Meteor Shower/Glyph of Storms/Ice Bow 4.

That’s why ppl go down fast and unable to res on time.

My graphic card is top-notch… so I don’t lag at all when ppl do this. But I don’t encourage this tactic still.

Kelo.4370:

And this is yet another reason among the many why Mesmer portals need to be toned down, one class should not be able to change the entire tide of battle on it’s own like this when no other class can on their own.

Don’t ruin it for everyone. Mesmers’ utility on the battlefield is almost unmatched — but it makes the game that much more interesting.

Magni.2835:

Siege is a counter to this.

Siege is not brilliant vs this, it is effective I agree.. but all it takes is one mesmer and a portal and that entire turtle is ontop of your siege.

itawashii.4087:

What’s wrong with this kind of tactic? Tactic is tactic, easy deal. QQ more

If so easy deal people not use. You nub ah no skill haha cry for you server.

Ruggy.7819:

Magni.2835:

Siege is a counter to this.

Siege is not brilliant vs this, it is effective I agree.. but all it takes is one mesmer and a portal and that entire turtle is ontop of your siege.

It’s situational for sure, but properly placed siege will defend valuable targets from turtles.

Ruggy.7819:

Magni.2835:

Siege is a counter to this.

Siege is not brilliant vs this, it is effective I agree.. but all it takes is one mesmer and a portal and that entire turtle is ontop of your siege.

Don’t clumb your siege together – it’s has good range, you can position it strategically.
If placed in the open, things are hard to defend with siege because – well people can flank you easily, so it doesn’t matter if the enemy turtles or not – but chokepoints are yummy if the enemy does that.
Ballistas – especially the upgraded ones – will just cut down that zerg as they pop out of the purple shiny thingy on the ground. (Unless of course the game rendering messes with you again, but that’s a game issue, not a tactic issue).

9 times out of 10, I love it when the enemy zerg turtles up, because it’s free badges. 1 time out of 10, it’s a group that really knows what they’re doing and then I doubt them turtle or not would change anything anyway

Nerf the Romans for inventing the turtle formation

Why don’t you do the same so it’s 2 giant groups taking the space of 2 people firing at each other

Chiolas.1326:

Nerf the Romans for inventing the turtle formation

Actually you have to go back to Sparta and Greek Society who revolutionized warfare with the phalanx formation. This formation is similar to the turtle tactic in which you stay as a close knit group and watch each others backs. Blame Sparta imo.

Wonder what Germans say when they meet real turtle.

Junkpile.7439:

Wonder what Germans say when they meet real turtle.

I know what Seafaras Rest players say… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j2S0NhY4gY

:D

A good way to deal with the turtle blob is to back kite them with chill / cripple fields.

They won’t all have swiftness, or condition removal. even though chill and cripple fields have 5 target limits with 5-6 of them down they will slow different people at different times. This causes the turtle blob to spread out, allowing you to dps them down in smaller groups.

Also with pug turtle blobs they are not well disciplined so when they start to get killed or if you kite for a while, some will give up or disobey their leader.

Guilded organized groups using turtle blob’s are much harder to deal with. But typically fast movement and CC are needed to break them. But you will need closer numbers for this.

Siege does help but you need to focus it well to have an effect. Such as having a group bait and spread them out and then focusing mortar / treb and balista / cart fire on downed players to finish them and prevent res’ing.

A mobile group kiting the turtle blob cannot afford to stomp or finish off downed enemies while kiting. But a balista or two, or a treb can be ideal for this.

But taking on a turtle blob like is is something for organized guilds to do, and against a blob of 30-40 your going to need 15-20 with a few well placed siege weapons.

We typically try to kite them around buildings / towers or tricky spots in the terrain to snake them out.

It takes practice to be able to move tightly on a leader.

It’s not turtle formation fault you’re losing 30k to SR. =)
SR uses different tactics. E.g. small OSC squads prefer fast assassin’s style attacks and depend on chosing the right target without many defenders, bigger one uses golems and rams. ZDs, Rise, VII use golems, rams, distant treb, catas for wall, turtle formations.
So, I tell you, statement «SR uses only turtle tactic» is the most stupid thing I’ve ever heard about.

GSTim.8094:

It’s not turtle formation fault you’re losing 30k to SR. =)
.

I repeat, I give a … about the ranking system. You can win 100k or lose 100k ahea, I dont care about the ranking system.

I am one of those players who enjoins nice fights, no matter if we lose or win.

And i never said that SF use “ONLY” this tactic. I said “it seems they use it mainly only”.

This Thread is also not about the SF-Server, its about this (in my eyes) very boring brain-afk tactic.

This is not new:

Its looks more like this…

[img]http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/8659/turtel.png[/img]

Note, ther are like 30, 40+ players on a position wich isnt bigger than 3m²

To see them all, I have to lay ther dead for about 1min till my computer or the server (i dont know) loads them all…

Tactics Turtle: let us stick together

I’ll say it again… siege won’t make much difference vs. a well coordinated turtle group. Well at least a reasonable amount of siege won’t. For those of you who think turtles are easy to beat, just wait. You’ll see.

itawashii.4087:

What’s wrong with this kind of tactic? Tactic is tactic, easy deal. QQ more

What’s wrong with it is that a group standing in one place is used as a hard counter for 75% of the skills in the game.

Why does it make sense that if your group stands in one place it negates skills that are designed to actively punish that behavior? Why do they have dodge if this mechanic tactic was intended?

I don’t have problems with people standing in one place. That’s fine. What I have issue with is the fact that aoe skills are worthless against the tactic. If they want the tactic to “stay” in the game they need to uncap how many targets aoe skills can hit, or at least increase the cap. Now aoe shouldn’t be able to hit all 40 people in a clumped group but it should be able to hit more than 3 to 5.

It just doesn’t make any sense. All it is is taking advantage of flaws (that can be fixed) in the games design, I would hardly consider it a real tactic.

This is why they should not nerf mesmer portals, you can easily counter the turtle tactic, especially because of the rendering issues

The solution is easy, get Anet to implement better PvP mechanics

This is why i wish you could not res dead players then your odds would be greater against the bigger army.

Stay alive, pick off sides slowly. Use the fact that you are mobile and they are not to your advantage. Turtles are fairly easy to deal with unless the lag is extremely heavy, in which case it takes a bit longer.

Really, I don’t understand why everyone simply adapts the ‘turtle strategy’ instead of thinking of ways to counter it. We have had no issue dealing with and we have never turtled in any fighting situation.

Sixpax.8360:

I’ll say it again… siege won’t make much difference vs. a well coordinated turtle group. Well at least a reasonable amount of siege won’t. For those of you who think turtles are easy to beat, just wait. You’ll see.

What exactly are we waiting for? What guild or group does it so well that it will be impossible to beat?

Intigo.1653:

Sixpax.8360:

I’ll say it again… siege won’t make much difference vs. a well coordinated turtle group. Well at least a reasonable amount of siege won’t. For those of you who think turtles are easy to beat, just wait. You’ll see.

What exactly are we waiting for? What guild or group does it so well that it will be impossible to beat?

I don’t know what Sixpax is referring to but I can say MoS turtle is one of the best.

Greetings to Arborstone and Millenium Old School

iHaukka.2815:

MoS turtle is one of the best.

are you just kidding?

Can’t beat it? Nerf it!
Enemy using it more efficient than you? Nerf it!
People telling you it doesn’t need to be nerfed because it can be countered IF you try and know what to do? Tell them to stop QQ’ing and that they just want “OP” things.

Sixpax.8360:

I’ll say it again… siege won’t make much difference vs. a well coordinated turtle group. Well at least a reasonable amount of siege won’t. For those of you who think turtles are easy to beat, just wait. You’ll see.

You’ll have the same issues with a coordinated group regardless.

Turtles can be countered, so I personally think they shouldn’t be nerfed.

It’s part of the WvW tactic. Your guild/team/server being unable to come up with something to counter it and effectively perform it is not a valid reason for a nerf, especially when other guilds/teams/servers can.

Pop a sanctuary on them.

Honestly it’s hilarious to see turtles. Especially if its like 50+ people in it, LOOT ALL THE LOOTBAGS!

[GoD] from Desolation tried to get a keep by stacking up against the door in a corner. They got wiped 4 or 5 times by 5 arrow carts and a catapult..

Talking about that, thanks NuG for letting us wipe you turle vs turle in open combat every day You guys need moaaaar stability up!

aaron.4317:

The solution is easy, get Anet to implement better PvP mechanics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFZ7NeSgYwY

Remove AOE cap ? Some people will not agree with this, because they afraid a single ele wipe their entire turtle formation.

if they remove the AOE cap I am rerolling elementalist the second they announce it!

I hardly ever run in the zerg. I’m a scout so can’t really applaud it :p.
However we hardly every have the numbers to make a succesful turtle on our own and we lack the classes to make it really really really work.

Every fight vs IRON is fun though.

Right back at ya, we enjoy (and allways enjoyed) playing against you guys.

Domo.7618:

Ahoy da mates.

My Server ( Millers Sound) playing right now agenst the Seafarer´s Rest Server. And it seems that those guys mainly only use the “Turtel” tactic.

Ther are like 30, 40+ of them staying all together in 1 person and casting AoEs, heals, rez like hell.

From time to time ther is a mesmer wich teleport them from point to point.

All you can do about it is try to fear them and try to kill some of them, but this doesnt always work because of the lag this tactic makes.

So I wanted ask if ther is a better way to split/kill them ?

And does Anet support this kind of tactic?

Yesterday evening you guys (Miller) passed all evening close inside Hills and Bay. The only time we found you outside was a Perfect Inc 20 of us UP and 20 of yours DOWN.

And bytheway we were only in 20/25.

See ya in the openfield.

Stacks are insanely easy to break if you have a coordinated group of people. If you dont…. well maybe you should tell everyone to stack up too and you guys and play pillar wars?

Even if they improve (they should imo) AoE ppl will still stay together

As a guild leader, active member, and very devoted member on the Seafarer’s Rest server I have one thing to say to you: Was?

I have never once seen our server turtle. In fact we discuss how much your server does it. Just Tuesday night while leading event my guild, Born of Indecision, was attempting to take down a tower owned by you all in EB. We failed because we did not turtle, because we do not turtle. While I cannot speak for every single guild, I know it is not common tactics for [BORN], [AR], [FU], or [OSC] to turtle. Do we portal bomb? Absolutely.

We even joked saying that we cannot take any towers owned by Miller’s WITHOUT turtling.

However, I will offer you advice when it comes to turtling, because as a fellow GW2 player, I understand the amount of annozance it causes and hope dearly that it does get changed: Use siege. Balistas, canons, mortars, and catas all destroy large groups and can be used inside the range of a treb. It’s really quite easy to work around these issues.

I wish you luck, hope you realize that blaming us for doing something the majority of us do not do is ridiculous, and shall be online tonight to kick your kitten across the borderlands and back.

Grüße aus Berlin und jammern nicht mehr,
Cora Staalvoss Leader of [BORN]