Guild Wars 2

Guild alliances are the main driver for WvW success. Why not scrap the concept of servers. It would also give the leaders an accurate view of the population that is playing based on the guild stats.

So….. kick PUGS out of WvW entirely…?

They can easily get in guilds.

Faux Play.6104:

They can easily get in guilds.

For 1g they would just make their own 1 man guild.

Would the next step be to block all players unless they are in a 100+ member guild? Would that 100+ member guild all have to sign an agreement to actively present themselves on the field each day?

How would this work? How would there be enemies or players? Would it be limited to roaming guilds? Would it be limited to bigger guilds? What would be the point of a single guild on 1 server when multiple guilds are needed to upgrade and buff structures like SM and Keep, would it all be owned by one guild and then upgrades limited to how much a WvW guild was able to PvE for guild upgrades?

No thanks, I would rather people be free to play their own way.

This is such a terrible idea lol. But hey, if you want to decrease the WvW population even more by adding unwanted restrictions than go right ahead :P

OP, you’ve certainly earned a nomination in the “Worst idea of the Year” category.

Have a limited number of alliances like there is now. Have a set of metrics that are public for the WvW guilds. Such as repped hours per time slot, defense contribution, caps, yak kills, average WvW rank, %uplevels/under geared players. Then the guilds could choose the play style they want. Break the year up into seasons, and allow the lead guild for each alliance to draft the guilds it wants to align with at the beginning of the season, but cap the guilds they can take based on rep time per time zone so each tier has relatively even coverage.

I think a guild/alliance based system would allow the community to better track and balance populations. As it stands right now if you are on a “server” with a bunch of dormant accounts, or people that hardly play WvW you can still be considered “high population” even though you can’t even queue maps.

sephiroth.4217:

Faux Play.6104:

They can easily get in guilds.

For 1g they would just make their own 1 man guild.

Would the next step be to block all players unless they are in a 100+ member guild? Would that 100+ member guild all have to sign an agreement to actively present themselves on the field each day?

How would this work? How would there be enemies or players? Would it be limited to roaming guilds? Would it be limited to bigger guilds? What would be the point of a single guild on 1 server when multiple guilds are needed to upgrade and buff structures like SM and Keep, would it all be owned by one guild and then upgrades limited to how much a WvW guild was able to PvE for guild upgrades?

BAD idea! Where’s the huge thumbs down key!

My favorite part of the game is to pick off you cool kids in the big guilds though desperately trying to make your way back to your precious guild or zerg

Phantom.8130:

So….. kick PUGS out of WvW entirely…?

The suggested implementation of Alliances I read allowed for pugs (aka mercenary/militias) to join teams every week. I think the one I read required a certain percentage of pugs so that they wouldn’t be boxed out of the game.

These pugs allow for a recruiting pool for guilds.

Those that don’t like alliances are generally those servers that are gaming Anets rather poorly implemented population metric to overstack their servers.

If anet implemented alliances with a hard population cap, those people would not be able to win the population overstacking game. Right now winning in WvW is just a matter of population so the meta is to overstack.

I have a feeling this is coming from someone who hasn’t played a great deal of wvw/rvr in mmorpgs.

Faux Play.6104:

Guild alliances are the main driver for WvW success. Why not scrap the concept of servers. It would also give the leaders an accurate view of the population that is playing based on the guild stats.

Hilarious. Let me correct this for you: Numbers are the main driver for WvW success. <irony>Why not scrap the concept of guilds?</irony> Who cares anyway?

But they could really disable all guild functions in WvW and instead create a new(!) GvG mode.

bad idea besides anet makes to much on transfers

Balthazzarr.1349:

BAD idea! Where’s the huge thumbs down key!

Right next to the any key!

Anyway, its a silly idea.

Not sure how you think trying to create balanced matches based on servers for a minor game mode will produce good results. That concept is destined to fail. There will be a small handful of servers people that are willing to pay for transfers will go to, everyone else will either find a different game mode or a different game.

If you make it guild based and promote/demote guilds to different tiers it will make it easier to balance the population issues because you are managing smaller chunks. Also, playing in the higher tiers will actually have some prestige to it vs. selecting the top server when you make your account.

Dawdler.8521:

Balthazzarr.1349:

BAD idea! Where’s the huge thumbs down key!

Right next to the any key!

Anyway, its a silly idea.

…………………..

What more can I say?

Instead of scrapping the idea of servers completely in favor of “alliance”.
I think it is way better to dynamically remove and create X number of servers every X months and allow players to choose a server of their choice every X months. This will resolve population imbalance if the cap system adapt a algorithm that analyse historical records of the players. The “alliance” in this concept will then become a community-run alliance instead of a technical one, ideally the old server community will convert to a alliance community.

Of course, this option is highly unpopular, the discriminate option is way more popular.
#DieEquality #DieGreaterGood

Why not scrapping the useless blob guilds and make wvw purely roam/pug based.

What with how all guilds but the largest are so kittened since HoT anyway, I actually wouldn’t mind this kind of final nail in the coffin of the game. In the spirit of making stupid and pointless decisions for six months straight, ANet might consider this suggestion seriously.

Faux Play.6104:

They can easily get in guilds.

But maybe they don’t want to get in a guild?

WvW as guilds only? There are a lot of PvE guilds out there. So it would be ok for these guild members (who may not be interested in WvW) to play but not someone who wants to be involved but hasn’t decided which guild suits them best…

Sorry but, like many others here, I don’t see how the idea would actually help.

I think the guild alliances arise from the dedication and cooperation of players who trust each other rather than the other way round. Locking players out, whoever they are, doesn’t promote this.

Maybe we should just appoint Faux Play as WvW overlord and all wanting to play should go through an audition/accreditation test by him to make sure they are up to his high standards? /s

Maybe pvp players should give it more than 9 days in wvw (based on his postings, which until then were solely in th pvp forums) before deciding they have a great way of ruining the wvw game mode.

Basing it on guilds is such a bad idea- so Anet might actually be planning it or something similar.

I’m not in any major guild for many reasons. Firstly, I cannot use TS (comms on my server know why). Secondly, I cannot commit to being available when the guild is forming a raid. Thirdly, I run my own build main as an ele and won’t be told when, where or how to play. Despite all that, all open raids and some closed ones will happily take me in as I’m usually one of the last to die despite mostly being right next to the comm the entire fight (and mostly in water) and I’m not terrible at my class.

Basing numbers on ‘hours in wvw’ could be easily gamed, and I guarantee that one alliance would dominate most match ups, as all the better comms and players would seek to join it.

Then we would also see the demise of those wanting to play the least favoured classes- after all, if it’s guild v guild, you’re not going to want too many rangers, mesmers, thiefs or engineers about taking up spaces are you?

Again, you might keep a couple of really good ones if they can form a spike squad and wipe enemy eles, necros, etc or for picking off stragglers- but they’d need to be on TS in their own squad and be able to play and move as one and have group builds on (which many don’t).

I could have just said ‘bad idea’ but felt it necessary to elucidate my reasoning.

I would write a funny remark in how much i think it is a bad idea, but i am stunned speechless.

Teon.5168:

I have a feeling this is coming from someone who hasn’t played a great deal of wvw/rvr in mmorpgs.

And then we get mad at Anet when they respond to these ideas, simply because they’re the most vocal.

Faux Play.6104:

Guild alliances are the main driver for WvW success. Why not scrap the concept of servers. It would also give the leaders an accurate view of the population that is playing based on the guild stats.

Guild alliances are not the main driver for WvW success – they are the reason WvW was dying.
People who aren’t in big guilds tend to stay on the same server and struggle to keep those servers alive – the big guilds tend to bandwagon around servers creating a complete mess.

Putting WvW into the hands of the big guilds would make WvW finally unsalvable.

Have to go with a no here. People are complaining that we need more WvWers, this would just remove people from the game mode.

Jayne.9251:

Teon.5168:

I have a feeling this is coming from someone who hasn’t played a great deal of wvw/rvr in mmorpgs.

And then we get mad at Anet when they respond to these ideas, simply because they’re the most vocal.

I doubt that Anet will respond to this absurd idea, because most everyone in the thread thinks it is a stupid idea. Creating one thread about some bizarre idea the OP had while in a drug/alcohol induced haze is far from being ‘the most vocal’……lol.

Teon.5168:

Jayne.9251:

Teon.5168:

I have a feeling this is coming from someone who hasn’t played a great deal of wvw/rvr in mmorpgs.

And then we get mad at Anet when they respond to these ideas, simply because they’re the most vocal.

I doubt that Anet will respond to this absurd idea, because most everyone in the thread thinks it is a stupid idea. Creating one thread about some bizarre idea the OP had while in a drug/alcohol induced haze is far from being ‘the most vocal’……lol.

This isn’t a new idea.
https://toughlovecritic.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/putting-guilds-back-into-guild-wars-wvw-alliances-part-1/

I like any system that would impose a hard population cap. The way that population is currently calculated can be gamed and lead to larger population imbalances.

Silversteen.1360:

Faux Play.6104:

They can easily get in guilds.

But maybe they don’t want to get in a guild?

It isnt necessary a way to exclude non guilds or pugs it can be easilly incorporated on any concept design, as we could even have guild creation quest/mission for havok squad/groups to atack, support/control/destroy certain objectives, it could even be better for guild and non guild groups, the problem would be Anet wanting to resove the WvW design issues, its concept it is totaly faulty for a siege warfare game mode.

-WvW lacks being guild centred
-WvW has several issues server VS server design (map structure and redundancy inclueded).
-WvW suffers from bad balance management on classes and builds.
-WvW quality suffers from gw2 being a cluster f*** skill spam based game.
-WvW suffers from game being to much dependant on working placebos and heavy11 gimmicks.
-WvW lacks from Anet lack of understanding what are the other means of content.
-WvW suffers from how Guilds work on this game, several chat rooms where players farm grind(and it is a bad grind even when compared with the grind games) so they can use broken gimmicks, im gona be rude here on guild and GH cause chat rooms are a place player grind for a placebo design of pretending to be in a guild, it doesnt add anything special for the game.
And Guild Hall design is utterlly a joke, we already know how Anet is extremelly good at artwork(props to the artwork teams), but its concept suffers alot from how empty this game is.

WvW issues wont be fixed while Anet wont change how WvW works.

this post isnt ment to be negative towards Anet, they improved by alot the gw1 engine with this fork, but they ideal of creating a strong gimmick game with some placebo fixes, is not a good thing overall, it is unhealthy for several reasons and will create problems after problems like a snow ball effect
WvW&PvP games should be strong on gw2 lore, design, and functionalities, the lore and theme of the game might be one of the best of all games, and 1st of mmo lore, but the game lacks by alot, and that is where every other mmo’s are shinning in gameplay feactures and concepts.

Faux Play.6104:

Guild alliances are the main driver for WvW success. Why not scrap the concept of servers.

Because glory-seeking server-hopping guilds are causing the population balance problem in the first place. Making it easier for them to stack on the same side is the last thing we should be aiming for.

Teon.5168:

Jayne.9251:

Teon.5168:

I have a feeling this is coming from someone who hasn’t played a great deal of wvw/rvr in mmorpgs.

And then we get mad at Anet when they respond to these ideas, simply because they’re the most vocal.

I doubt that Anet will respond to this absurd idea, because most everyone in the thread thinks it is a stupid idea. Creating one thread about some bizarre idea the OP had while in a drug/alcohol induced haze is far from being ‘the most vocal’……lol.

Eh about three months ago it was this topic all day every day .. and people were agreeing with it, lol. How times change.

I think Anet reviewed stuff and we dodged a bullet. Thankfully.

cafard.8953:

Faux Play.6104:

Guild alliances are the main driver for WvW success. Why not scrap the concept of servers.

Because glory-seeking server-hopping guilds are causing the population balance problem in the first place. Making it easier for them to stack on the same side is the last thing we should be aiming for.

Servers are quasi-alliances already since guilds and pugs come and go.

The problem with servers is that there is no room for the players to create there own “server/alliance” and that servers do not have a hard population cap leading a steady stream of imbalanced competitions as guilds and players move around. This renders the glicko meaningless as we are seeing since the server linking. Most servers were not properly placed by the glicko because of rapid population shifts.

I think the biggest barrier to removing WvW servers is the loss of revenue that Anet would get hit with because alliances should not require transfer fees.

Alliances would actually make the ratings meaningful. Although they should ditch Glicko and just use Elo with a high K value to reflect the inherent volatility of the system.

Faux,

*Applause!!! Standing Ovation!
I have wanted WvW to drop this silly attachment to servers since mega-server came into existence. “Silly” because the resources available to guilds no longer match the WvW criteria used for participation…namely that everyone be from the same server.

Once mega-server launched, our guild was essentially excluded from participating in WvW… and we WANT TO, but our members are from literally every server out there.

I personally played WvW since before season 1, and through the last WvW Season. I commanded some, and gained a lot of WvW experience in the process. I picked up a dead WvW guild and became a GL. That was around 3 years ago and we are still going strong as a guild, but all of us have to WvW for our home servers only…which means we could actually end up fighting our guildies in certain matchups.
Additionally this problem takes away from the overall activities that we can offer to members, and has a contrary effect on the problems that mega-server was intended to address because it forces us to disregard mega-server in guild recruiting IF we want to play WvW. In other words we have to think “pre” mega-server, yet we exist in a mega-server world.
This is a mega-problem.
In my humble opinion this is one of the major reasons that WvW has stumbled recently and the only way to fix it is to allow ALL guilds the opportunity to WvW with all of its members regardless of server.
If we were only a WvW guild? Then the negative effect is lessened. But we also pvp.
…and consider this.
The current system pushes all guilds out except WvW guilds who are willing to only recruit in WvW and pretty much only play WvW.
We dont consider ourselves a PVX guild, but we also aren’t “WvW Only”…and speaking from experience (because Ive talked to hundreds of members about this…) nobody thinks that the current system is ideal. Every single member I have ever spoken with wants to WvW with their guild of choice.
Im sure there are ways to fix this problem, and I hope that Anet decides that this is a necessary priority that will put wvw back on track for everyone.
Thanks
Saya

I think you missed the part about capping population by time slot. This should be a lot easier to monitor and correct if it were guild vs server based.

cafard.8953:

Faux Play.6104:

Guild alliances are the main driver for WvW success. Why not scrap the concept of servers.

Because glory-seeking server-hopping guilds are causing the population balance problem in the first place. Making it easier for them to stack on the same side is the last thing we should be aiming for.

Dredlore.1672:

Faux,

*Applause!!! Standing Ovation!
I have wanted WvW to drop this silly attachment to servers since mega-server came into existence. “Silly” because the resources available to guilds no longer match the WvW criteria used for participation…namely that everyone be from the same server.

Once mega-server launched, our guild was essentially excluded from participating in WvW… and we WANT TO, but our members are from literally every server out there.

I personally played WvW since before season 1, and through the last WvW Season. I commanded some, and gained a lot of WvW experience in the process. I picked up a dead WvW guild and became a GL. That was around 3 years ago and we are still going strong as a guild, but all of us have to WvW for our home servers only…which means we could actually end up fighting our guildies in certain matchups.
Additionally this problem takes away from the overall activities that we can offer to members, and has a contrary effect on the problems that mega-server was intended to address because it forces us to disregard mega-server in guild recruiting IF we want to play WvW. In other words we have to think “pre” mega-server, yet we exist in a mega-server world.
This is a mega-problem.
In my humble opinion this is one of the major reasons that WvW has stumbled recently and the only way to fix it is to allow ALL guilds the opportunity to WvW with all of its members regardless of server.
If we were only a WvW guild? Then the negative effect is lessened. But we also pvp.
…and consider this.
The current system pushes all guilds out except WvW guilds who are willing to only recruit in WvW and pretty much only play WvW.
We dont consider ourselves a PVX guild, but we also aren’t “WvW Only”…and speaking from experience (because Ive talked to hundreds of members about this…) nobody thinks that the current system is ideal. Every single member I have ever spoken with wants to WvW with their guild of choice.
Im sure there are ways to fix this problem, and I hope that Anet decides that this is a necessary priority that will put wvw back on track for everyone.
Thanks
Saya

You’re telling me all your PvE players don’t have a 100 gold a piece to pay for a transfer?

Just to address the issues raised by Torqued…
You see these issues the way you do because mega-server created most of the problems you note here.
Server hopping guilds? We have been on the same server since the guild started over 3 years ago and we aren’t going anywhere.
As I said, “WvW ONLY” guilds are the only survivors in WvW….because of the system we have in place. Change the system and the effect of server swapping WvW guild is far less because other guilds step in who aren’t of that mentality.
I can name at least 3 guilds (4 including ours) off the top of my head who have been around for years and never swapped servers…yet have been pushed out of WvW due to the current system.
So basically, the “loyal” guilds are excluded and the mercenary wvw (only) guilds are encouraged by this broken system.
Thanks
Saya

I have played WvW off and on since launch. I don’t think you have to be a mithril ranked WvW player to make a suggestion. Thinking that world populations will ever be balanced when it requires the players to pay $ to even it out is absurd. I would also think people in T1 would want some sort of gate in terms of experience and results in game vs a donation to anet to qualify someone to play at that level.

Baldrick.8967:

Maybe pvp players should give it more than 9 days in wvw (based on his postings, which until then were solely in th pvp forums) before deciding they have a great way of ruining the wvw game mode.

Basing it on guilds is such a bad idea- so Anet might actually be planning it or something similar.

I’m not in any major guild for many reasons. Firstly, I cannot use TS (comms on my server know why). Secondly, I cannot commit to being available when the guild is forming a raid. Thirdly, I run my own build main as an ele and won’t be told when, where or how to play. Despite all that, all open raids and some closed ones will happily take me in as I’m usually one of the last to die despite mostly being right next to the comm the entire fight (and mostly in water) and I’m not terrible at my class.

Basing numbers on ‘hours in wvw’ could be easily gamed, and I guarantee that one alliance would dominate most match ups, as all the better comms and players would seek to join it.

Then we would also see the demise of those wanting to play the least favoured classes- after all, if it’s guild v guild, you’re not going to want too many rangers, mesmers, thiefs or engineers about taking up spaces are you?

Again, you might keep a couple of really good ones if they can form a spike squad and wipe enemy eles, necros, etc or for picking off stragglers- but they’d need to be on TS in their own squad and be able to play and move as one and have group builds on (which many don’t).

I could have just said ‘bad idea’ but felt it necessary to elucidate my reasoning.

Jayne.9251:

Teon.5168:

Jayne.9251:

Teon.5168:

I have a feeling this is coming from someone who hasn’t played a great deal of wvw/rvr in mmorpgs.

And then we get mad at Anet when they respond to these ideas, simply because they’re the most vocal.

I doubt that Anet will respond to this absurd idea, because most everyone in the thread thinks it is a stupid idea. Creating one thread about some bizarre idea the OP had while in a drug/alcohol induced haze is far from being ‘the most vocal’……lol.

Eh about three months ago it was this topic all day every day .. and people were agreeing with it, lol. How times change.

I think Anet reviewed stuff and we dodged a bullet. Thankfully.

Glad I missed that silliness.

Puck.9612:

Dredlore.1672:

Faux,

*Applause!!! Standing Ovation!
I have wanted WvW to drop this silly attachment to servers since mega-server came into existence. “Silly” because the resources available to guilds no longer match the WvW criteria used for participation…namely that everyone be from the same server.

Once mega-server launched, our guild was essentially excluded from participating in WvW… and we WANT TO, but our members are from literally every server out there.

I personally played WvW since before season 1, and through the last WvW Season. I commanded some, and gained a lot of WvW experience in the process. I picked up a dead WvW guild and became a GL. That was around 3 years ago and we are still going strong as a guild, but all of us have to WvW for our home servers only…which means we could actually end up fighting our guildies in certain matchups.
Additionally this problem takes away from the overall activities that we can offer to members, and has a contrary effect on the problems that mega-server was intended to address because it forces us to disregard mega-server in guild recruiting IF we want to play WvW. In other words we have to think “pre” mega-server, yet we exist in a mega-server world.
This is a mega-problem.
In my humble opinion this is one of the major reasons that WvW has stumbled recently and the only way to fix it is to allow ALL guilds the opportunity to WvW with all of its members regardless of server.
If we were only a WvW guild? Then the negative effect is lessened. But we also pvp.
…and consider this.
The current system pushes all guilds out except WvW guilds who are willing to only recruit in WvW and pretty much only play WvW.
We dont consider ourselves a PVX guild, but we also aren’t “WvW Only”…and speaking from experience (because Ive talked to hundreds of members about this…) nobody thinks that the current system is ideal. Every single member I have ever spoken with wants to WvW with their guild of choice.
Im sure there are ways to fix this problem, and I hope that Anet decides that this is a necessary priority that will put wvw back on track for everyone.
Thanks
Saya

You’re telling me all your PvE players don’t have a 100 gold a piece to pay for a transfer?

lol and here is one result of the server problem.
I can tell the players who came along after mega server, because having never seen WvW before, they dont understand what a “smooth” wvw system is like.
They only understand how they have adjusted to the problems that the current WvW system created.

Why SHOULD our guild members have to pay an extra 100 gold fee that “same server” members do not have to pay…. just because they want to be in our guild?
Especially since the mega-server system lends itself (systematically encourages) to recruiting from all servers.
Those same members can do anything else with the guild… so why is it 100 gold for them to WvW with their guild of choice?
That makes absolutely no sense at all and the way that most (non WvW only) guilds have dealt with that issue is to stay out of WvW.

…and no we arent one of those toxic “PVE guilds”. lol but if we were, the same set of principles would apply.
Right now we are PVP only and have been for a while…because WvW has been so broken …and the server problem…. so we don’t even want to bother. We will just pvp until something logical replaces the current wvw system.

waiting…. TY
Saya

Hey Baldrick.8967, just on a side note…
We do not require TS, We do not require “meta” because its lame. The best understand how to create effective builds based on their own play style.
We do not tell members what gear they have to use and we do not whine, bi^$% and moan when OH MY GOD… we lose.
We use losses as a way to improve. We believe we can out think teams who intend to win on fight skills alone (and we do). The best play and the rest are alternates. But everybody gets in.
Want in? Shoot me a mail in game, we’d be happy to have you…. but sad to say, we probably couldn’t wvw together.

Laterz

At one point I thought about how every active wvw’er on my server should join one guild (since you can join a total of 5, that wouldn’t be such a big deal) just to make it easier to coordinate stuff. Each person can be in his own 4 guilds as he want + one massive server guild. I do wonder how that would work…
However, I do not think that forcing players into guilds for wvw is a good idea… it should always be a voluntary thing.

Each week, change up which guilds are put in an alliance with an emphasis on balancing time zones and keeping matches fresh. Large guilds would anchor a match and small guilds/PUGs would fill in the gaps. In this system they could have as many or few matches as they need to keep the queues down and participation in each match brisk.

In a sense, large guilds are the bricks of a match and small guilds/PUGs are the mortar. As for “servers”, this is an antiquated design held over from decades old MMOs that couldn’t keep one population on one server. This system didn’t exist in GW1 and should never have been created in GW2.

Straegen.2938:

Large guilds would anchor a match and small guilds/PUGs would fill in the gaps.

Dear god, please stop this silliness.

If you believe this works, then you have no clue about how your defense teams work. Most of them are the “pugs” who will “fill in the gaps” and as such are used to working with smaller groups to do the jobs the guilds just plain won’t do. It takes time and proven teamwork to make that function. Randomly dispersing them will result in a non-cohesive group that will crumble with this model.

You NEED to have both groups on map in order for WvW to work.

If you only have guilds and fights, your map is going to turn into a giant k-train, indistinguishable from pve-champ train maps. If you enjoy that, please go to pve.

If you only have defensive types, then nobody attacks, and it grows equally boring.

You NEED both.

Saying these “pugs” will fill in the gaps indicates a clear disconnect on what really goes on in your wvw maps.

Jayne.9251:

If you believe this works, then you have no clue about how your defense teams work. Most of them are the “pugs” who will “fill in the gaps” and as such are used to working with smaller groups to do the jobs the guild just plain won’t do. It takes time and proven teamwork to make that function. Randomly dispersing them will result in a non-cohesive group that will crumble with this model.

You NEED to have both groups on map in order for WvW to work.

Yes and I am advocating for a system that puts big guilds, small guilds and pugs on the same side against other similarly mated alliances. Each style of play is conducive to enjoyable WvW play and needed in each match by each side.

The problem in WvW arises when that mix is out of balance. When a server only blobs or lacks coverage during a certain time, WvW becomes far less fun to play by everyone. The “server” system actually enforces that inequality. Using my brick metaphor, having a wall of only bricks (large guilds) isn’t stable just as having only mortar lacks strength. An alliance needs both.

Can we not at least try something different that has a chance for a better outcome? Why hold onto what is effectively a poor design that is slowly failing?

Straegen.2938:

Jayne.9251:

If you believe this works, then you have no clue about how your defense teams work. Most of them are the “pugs” who will “fill in the gaps” and as such are used to working with smaller groups to do the jobs the guild just plain won’t do. It takes time and proven teamwork to make that function. Randomly dispersing them will result in a non-cohesive group that will crumble with this model.

You NEED to have both groups on map in order for WvW to work.

Yes and I am advocating for a system that puts big guilds, small guilds and pugs on the same side against other similarly mated alliances. Each style of play is conducive to enjoyable WvW play and needed in each match by each side.

The problem in WvW arises when that mix is out of balance. When a server only blobs or lacks coverage during a certain time, WvW becomes far less fun to play by everyone. The “server” system actually enforces that inequality.

Even populations make for better fights. It really isn’t any more complicated than that. Any system that continually evens out the population and allows players to fight for their side over the long term (in this case guilds) is a significantly better system that what we have today.

IMO it is absurd to hang on to this outdated and tired mechanic that has created incredibly stale matches based around a scoring system that almost everyone universally dislikes. Can we not at least try something different that at least has a chance for a better outcome?

Yes, but you’re saying to use the pugs and smaller guilds to be the “mortar” .. meaning they randomly get assigned to a shifting “server”.

That will not work for your team’s defense. Those small guilds and pugs are the reason why you have a defense. The guilds can’t be kitten d.

If you break those existing communities apart by random assignments, you will find that backbone quits. Then you’ll only have the guilds left.

And it’ll be a giant karma train.

Which gets old fast.

Jayne.9251:

Yes, but you’re saying to use the pugs and smaller guilds to be the “mortar” .. meaning they randomly get assigned to a shifting “server”.

The most important goal of a matching system should be a fair fight. The server system has almost no way to make that happen over a period of time. In fact it creates matches so lopsided for such long periods it drives players out of the game mode. Most don’t like to log in and immediately find they have no chance at victory. Most don’t like to log in and find their opponent has stopped showing up.

WvW would have more players if most matches were close and the fights were fresh. Any system that moves WvW in that direction is a win. I also believe identity is important but that is why guilds exist in MMOs. Guilds are a players group identity.

Scoring should be related to a player and players guild performance with an alliance being the battleground where that scoring takes place. Tracking kills, KDR, objectives taken, objectives defended, etc by guild and player along with victory conditions delivering substantial rewards has tremendous untapped potential.

Dredlore.1672:

Puck.9612:

Dredlore.1672:

Faux,

*Applause!!! Standing Ovation!
I have wanted WvW to drop this silly attachment to servers since mega-server came into existence. “Silly” because the resources available to guilds no longer match the WvW criteria used for participation…namely that everyone be from the same server.

Once mega-server launched, our guild was essentially excluded from participating in WvW… and we WANT TO, but our members are from literally every server out there.

I personally played WvW since before season 1, and through the last WvW Season. I commanded some, and gained a lot of WvW experience in the process. I picked up a dead WvW guild and became a GL. That was around 3 years ago and we are still going strong as a guild, but all of us have to WvW for our home servers only…which means we could actually end up fighting our guildies in certain matchups.
Additionally this problem takes away from the overall activities that we can offer to members, and has a contrary effect on the problems that mega-server was intended to address because it forces us to disregard mega-server in guild recruiting IF we want to play WvW. In other words we have to think “pre” mega-server, yet we exist in a mega-server world.
This is a mega-problem.
In my humble opinion this is one of the major reasons that WvW has stumbled recently and the only way to fix it is to allow ALL guilds the opportunity to WvW with all of its members regardless of server.
If we were only a WvW guild? Then the negative effect is lessened. But we also pvp.
…and consider this.
The current system pushes all guilds out except WvW guilds who are willing to only recruit in WvW and pretty much only play WvW.
We dont consider ourselves a PVX guild, but we also aren’t “WvW Only”…and speaking from experience (because Ive talked to hundreds of members about this…) nobody thinks that the current system is ideal. Every single member I have ever spoken with wants to WvW with their guild of choice.
Im sure there are ways to fix this problem, and I hope that Anet decides that this is a necessary priority that will put wvw back on track for everyone.
Thanks
Saya

You’re telling me all your PvE players don’t have a 100 gold a piece to pay for a transfer?

lol and here is one result of the server problem.
I can tell the players who came along after mega server, because having never seen WvW before, they dont understand what a “smooth” wvw system is like.

Really… You can tell huh? That’s funny because I started playing GW back in 2005 and have been playing GW2 since the betas. My guild has brought in plenty of PvE players by helping them move their account. We did this because we thought it would be a lot more fun to play together than it would be to cry on the forums like a little kitten.
…The biggest downside to this beta event is it brought out a bunch of PvE idiots posting terrible ideas that would destroy wvw.

Puck.9612 isnt that what Anet has being already doing since gw2 release?