Guild Wars 2

anyone feel that this patch has caused zergs to just trade keeps and towers and run in a big circle for points? seems to be the new fotm and wish they would either make the maps BIGGER or make it harder to take an upgraded keep/tower

agreed our set player cap like it use to be.

WXP should only come from killing players…… capping should just give you normal XP only

azizul.8469:

WXP should only come from killing players…… capping should just give you normal XP only

That is a horrible idea- the whole point of world vs world is to control objectives, not be some kind of silly death match, why do you not want to reward players for being useful in world vs world?

The whole point of wvw is to control objectives against enemy players because without enemy players wvw would only be another form of pve.

Therefore WXP should mainly come from killing players. Taking objectives should only be granted WXP if the objective was actually defended by enemy players. The amount of WXP should be calculated by taking into account the number ratio of attackers vs defenders. So 40 attackers taking a tower from 5 defenders results in a very low WXP bonus.

azizul.8469:

WXP should only come from killing players…… capping should just give you normal XP only

No, WxP should come from every aspect: killing, capping and defending

… as long as capping gives you the most WXP, you’ll forever see these exchange of objectives

To win world vs world- you cap objectives. Thus world exp should come from capping objectives- killing players in your way helps you cap objectives, and that is rewarded too.
World vs World is not a deathmatch mode- it is a take and hold mode and thus the WXP for objectives should be there.

I’m not sure how they are going to do it but they NEED to do something soon to stop these mindless blob trains, WvW has lost all coordination and skill it had before and now rest’s on which server can form the biggest crowd.

IMO WvW was fine before, They just needed to fix culling (which they did, and did a great job) Why the hell they added the rest is beyond me :/

azizul.8469:

WXP should only come from killing players…… capping should just give you normal XP only

no please… the opposite should be the better solution.
do not encourage people to kill as more players as possible instead of doing the thing wvwvw is made for: cap/defend structures.

WvW is not PvP, its siege warfare. PvP is just something that happens. You should get no Wxp for player kills. if you want xp for killing other players, go to sPvP and rank up there.

But to the OP’s question; Yes this new ranking system was not thought out well. Or they just blatantly ignored one of the top problems with WvW when creating this. The ZERG. People have been begging Anet to create more ways to make the zerg less effective since the betas. Anet says they are working on things, to appease us, but nothing ever happens…its frustrating.

I love WvW and will continue to play it for as long as I can. My only wish is that Anet would try some of the suggestions the community provides daily here. Even if only on a temporary basis, periodically. Not ever suggestion is viable, but the more simple ones, like AOE hitting 15’ish would be simple, and could be switched back in a moments notice. They have proven since Tuesday that they can through patches out faster then monthly.

Defending should give the same amount as capping. Just increase the timer to 10-20 minutes.

WExp needs to come from defending as well as doing objectives and killing players. At the moment the formula is too weighted towards killing players and capping objectives, and hence people naturally form a blob and go cap things whilst running over 20-30 man groups with their 60+ blob.

Hopefully the new pve crowd that have joined in will get bored with running around in a blob and go back to running fractals or speed running dungeons or whatever it is that makes them money in pve, when they realise you make little to no gold in comparison in wvw.

Heres some legit footage of the new superzerging found in NA-Tier 1.

True story.

The issue isn’t Wxp it’s WvW the way WvW is set up currently pretty much says Zerg or die. Now with culling removed it’s even worse due to no other mechanics introduced to persuade people to drop group size for more focused groups(wxp ranks would of came into this but we can get all the ranks eventually so no roles are being created threw WxP just making yourself more prepared for WvW)Aoe ca kitten till around so zergs can’t be Aoed down to cause groups to spread out and the one that spreads out and focuses correctly wins no it’s Wall vs Wall until one wall of people crumbles and runs then rinse repeat.

Overall Wxp needs to be account bound or they need to make it so you can only build up to a certain amount not gain all the abilities. Once this is done Wxp will be in a good place they just need to work on the WvW at that point addressing things like Lackluster rewards for defending, lackluster zerg counters even siege feels worthless, Map size and design(ebg is alright in design but terrible in size the bls are terrible in both the vertical aspects of it are understandable but ruin how people travel across the world plus why is their a big castle that takes up 1/8th of the map and isn’t even defendable or seigable that is a terrible spawn area takes up way to much space) Hylek like camps feeling worthless no reason to hold only need to take them and move on, their is more but that is meant for the suggestion page not here.

Windmoor.9834:

WvW is not PvP, its siege warfare. PvP is just something that happens. You should get no Wxp for player kills. if you want xp for killing other players, go to sPvP and rank up there.

But to the OP’s question; Yes this new ranking system was not thought out well. Or they just blatantly ignored one of the top problems with WvW when creating this. The ZERG. People have been begging Anet to create more ways to make the zerg less effective since the betas. Anet says they are working on things, to appease us, but nothing ever happens…its frustrating.

I love WvW and will continue to play it for as long as I can. My only wish is that Anet would try some of the suggestions the community provides daily here. Even if only on a temporary basis, periodically. Not ever suggestion is viable, but the more simple ones, like AOE hitting 15’ish would be simple, and could be switched back in a moments notice. They have proven since Tuesday that they can through patches out faster then monthly.

WvW is pvp PVP means player versus player nothing more nothing less stop adding meaning to it and stop taking meaning away from it. If players are versing each other in any way be it with tools or with their characters it is still pvp. Any more being added to meaning most of the time means Focused pvp which is a type of pvp that is built around a certain style of combat/tactics. You would just change the focused with w/e your meaning is S(structured)pvp or R(realm)pvp.

IMO the “new WvW” is right now a PvE-achivment-grinder-zone.

I hope it changes soon.

Colly.4073:

Why the hell they added the rest is beyond me :/

Obviously you didn’t read these forums much. Players cried their eyes out about there being no progression and rewards in WvW so hard, you’d think the world was about to end.

Windmoor.9834:

WvW is not PvP, its siege warfare. PvP is just something that happens. You should get no Wxp for player kills. if you want xp for killing other players, go to sPvP and rank up there.

But to the OP’s question; Yes this new ranking system was not thought out well. Or they just blatantly ignored one of the top problems with WvW when creating this. The ZERG. People have been begging Anet to create more ways to make the zerg less effective since the betas. Anet says they are working on things, to appease us, but nothing ever happens…its frustrating.

I love WvW and will continue to play it for as long as I can. My only wish is that Anet would try some of the suggestions the community provides daily here. Even if only on a temporary basis, periodically. Not ever suggestion is viable, but the more simple ones, like AOE hitting 15’ish would be simple, and could be switched back in a moments notice. They have proven since Tuesday that they can through patches out faster then monthly.

Removing wxp from player kills is a awful idea and would encorage people not defend and not attack anything that was defended.

Should be in my mind

Player who has not died in a long time should be the most points followed close by upgraded and defended keep.

Defending should be slightly less but tick multiple times during a siege with a bonus if you can clear the area if enemies and keep it clear for a to be determined amount of time.

Then lowest should be road guards and players who have died recently and undefended and unupgraded keeps/towers.

Fill other objectives in as needed.

Pve mobs should be removed from wxp as they have nothing to do with wvw. Pve champs should just be removed from the map.

In my opinion as a Tier 1 player, they should make the following tweaks to WXP:

• Scale down all current WXP values for taking camps, towers and keeps.
• Scale up all current WXP values for defending camps, towers and keeps.
• Have the capture and defend reward scale with the level of upgrade on the point (example, a 500 supply keep giving 200 WXP & a 1700 supply keep giving 500 WXP)
• Add WXP rewards for a player who buys an upgrade for a point, and it completes.
• Remove WXP from pure PvE content (Ice Wurm, Harpy, Overgrown Grub and Champion Spirit)
• Have WXP scale with a players gear, aswell as time spent alive.

The new WvW is the fighting 24 hours 7days non-stop, don’t want to use any tricks, just needs force at all times. If you side lack troops that means you are already defeated. LOL

i played daoc for YEARS and even though they had zergs, on a much larger scale too 100+ from one side it didn’t feel like it because the zone was so big, and the keeps were much MUCH harder to take, fully upgraded the guards would destroy people the walls took longer to take down etc etc

Keep in mind that this was the addition of a new system. It’s hard for them to really know before hand exactly how all of us humans are going to change our behavior based on new systems.

Now that the system is in place, they can tune it to reach a good balance. The problem is everyone on this forum just kittenes and moans about everything, so they have to focus on random stuff instead of tuning existing systems.

Let’s hope the change of leadership indicates a shift to balance now that the engine is in really good shape.

Ascii.9726:

In my opinion as a Tier 1 player, they should make the following tweaks to WXP:

• Scale down all current WXP values for taking camps, towers and keeps.
• Scale up all current WXP values for defending camps, towers and keeps.
• Have the capture and defend reward scale with the level of upgrade on the point (example, a 500 supply keep giving 200 WXP & a 1700 supply keep giving 500 WXP)
• Add WXP rewards for a player who buys an upgrade for a point, and it completes.
• Remove WXP from pure PvE content (Ice Wurm, Harpy, Overgrown Grub and Champion Spirit)
• Have WXP scale with a players gear, aswell as time spent alive.

These are all good ideas. Personally, I think this is what we will end up with in a month or so.

I find it funny, however, that people are simultaneously complaining about the weakness of the WXP rewards and forming large groups to constantly flip keeps for the WXP.

blurps.2340:

Colly.4073:

Why the hell they added the rest is beyond me :/

Obviously you didn’t read these forums much. Players cried their eyes out about there being no progression and rewards in WvW so hard, you’d think the world was about to end.

That’s the problem. Players who didn’t understand WvW, or didn’t really care much for a play style based upon strategy and objectives, but who still wanted large scale battles kept hammering ANet for “more progression”. Several of us here tried to point out the pitfalls of instituting individual achievements that disincline players to pursue team objectives, but ANet didn’t understand their own game enough to realize how badly this would undermine it. They could have put in place individual achievements that reinforced team goals, but instead they made credit based upon individual kills. That’s just stupid and it’s no wonder that now we just have mobs of players mindlessly fighting in the road for no purpose other than rank and titles. That can be fun at first, but it quickly gets boring and it for sure isn’t WvW.

Ascii.9726:

In my opinion as a Tier 1 player, they should make the following tweaks to WXP:

• Scale down all current WXP values for taking camps, towers and keeps.
• Scale up all current WXP values for defending camps, towers and keeps.
• Have the capture and defend reward scale with the level of upgrade on the point (example, a 500 supply keep giving 200 WXP & a 1700 supply keep giving 500 WXP)
• Add WXP rewards for a player who buys an upgrade for a point, and it completes.
• Remove WXP from pure PvE content (Ice Wurm, Harpy, Overgrown Grub and Champion Spirit)
• Have WXP scale with a players gear, aswell as time spent alive.

I almost agree with you.

• scale down? no, there will always be the groups who log in to run and cap. Fair enough
• but, deargods this. At the very least defending points should be comparable to capping. Right now there is absolutely no good incentive for players to remain and defend once the zerg moves on.
• and a thousand times this, plus a small monetary reward to recompense the upgrader on completion. Upgrading anything is such a colossal money sink, and there are no benefits to the quartermasters who do not follow the zerg but stay behind and babysit upgrades.
• why does smacking a harpy give more WxP than defending anything? Seriously, ANet, getcher heads outta yer butts.
• not quite sure where you were going with this without more explanation, so I won’t chime in.

And to your list, might I add:

• where are the ranks for defenders in this new system? Why is there one rank allotted to the cannon but absolutely nothing else regarding the defense of a tower or keep? Or how long it is held? Or upgraded?
• where is the rank for yak babysitting? It is already a thankless job that very few people want to do when all the big benefits are in following the zerg. Give me my DolyMama rank title!

Cactus.2710:

blurps.2340:

Colly.4073:

Why the hell they added the rest is beyond me :/

Obviously you didn’t read these forums much. Players cried their eyes out about there being no progression and rewards in WvW so hard, you’d think the world was about to end.

That’s the problem. Players who didn’t understand WvW, or didn’t really care much for a play style based upon strategy and objectives, but who still wanted large scale battles kept hammering ANet for “more progression”. Several of us here tried to point out the pitfalls of instituting individual achievements that disincline players to pursue team objectives, but ANet didn’t understand their own game enough to realize how badly this would undermine it. They could have put in place individual achievements that reinforced team goals, but instead they made credit based upon individual kills. That’s just stupid and it’s no wonder that now we just have mobs of players mindlessly fighting in the road for no purpose other than rank and titles. That can be fun at first, but it quickly gets boring and it for sure isn’t WvW.

We must play different games, all I see now is giant balls of people avoiding fights and running to take Objectives, 70 people to kill a road guard and flip a supply camp? Yeah every night. If anything killing someone is the slowest way to rank up. Being a roamer myself I can tell you that once someone is killed once the points they are worth afterwards is garbage.

All I want to see from the WvW patch they were talking about months ago is the increase rewards for defending, but I’ve yet to see defenders getting rewarded decently.

Give defenders more WxP than capping objectives.
We all know that the previous reward from “Repel the enemy attackers” quest for defending is low enough compared to capping objectives.
After this patch, defending objectives still gets low rewards, plus lower WxP than WxP from capping objectives….

Anet, please think about people defending objectives.
Defending is also important. =.=;;;

wedo.3049:

anyone feel that this patch has caused zergs to just trade keeps and towers and run in a big circle for points? seems to be the new fotm and wish they would either make the maps BIGGER or make it harder to take an upgraded keep/tower

No. They were already doing that.

The problem of karma trains has no relationship to anything they’ve changed recently.

Things will change. Same story with Karma at the beginning of GW2. Just Karma Train until we recognize how useless it is in the end.
At the moment people just want to farm WXP and it will end until the majority see how mediocre it is for the WvW.
Of course it leads to more zerging but it also motivate people to cap supply camps.

We jsut fall back to the beginning of gw2 :P

I would like to see WxP rewards scale down with the number of combatants.

Give maximum reward to small roving groups of no more than a dozen and miniscule rewards to massive zergs – that might encourage the blobs to break up a bit.

Likewise a 1v2 kill should be much more rewarding than a 6v1 kill.

Samhayn.2385:

Cactus.2710:

blurps.2340:

Colly.4073:

Why the hell they added the rest is beyond me :/

Obviously you didn’t read these forums much. Players cried their eyes out about there being no progression and rewards in WvW so hard, you’d think the world was about to end.

That’s the problem. Players who didn’t understand WvW, or didn’t really care much for a play style based upon strategy and objectives, but who still wanted large scale battles kept hammering ANet for “more progression”. Several of us here tried to point out the pitfalls of instituting individual achievements that disincline players to pursue team objectives, but ANet didn’t understand their own game enough to realize how badly this would undermine it. They could have put in place individual achievements that reinforced team goals, but instead they made credit based upon individual kills. That’s just stupid and it’s no wonder that now we just have mobs of players mindlessly fighting in the road for no purpose other than rank and titles. That can be fun at first, but it quickly gets boring and it for sure isn’t WvW.

We must play different games, all I see now is giant balls of people avoiding fights and running to take Objectives, 70 people to kill a road guard and flip a supply camp? Yeah every night. If anything killing someone is the slowest way to rank up. Being a roamer myself I can tell you that once someone is killed once the points they are worth afterwards is garbage.

That is indeed different than what I’ve seen lately. The other night DR and DH fought a totally pointless mass battle on the road between lowlands and SM. It lasted at least an hour and was still going strong when I got bored and left, but nobody seemed interested in doing much of anything else. Lots of action but no result other than rank points. Maybe things will change, but your experience doesn’t sound a whole lot better than mine even though it’s different.

Cactus.2710:

Samhayn.2385:

Cactus.2710:

blurps.2340:

Colly.4073:

Why the hell they added the rest is beyond me :/

Obviously you didn’t read these forums much. Players cried their eyes out about there being no progression and rewards in WvW so hard, you’d think the world was about to end.

That’s the problem. Players who didn’t understand WvW, or didn’t really care much for a play style based upon strategy and objectives, but who still wanted large scale battles kept hammering ANet for “more progression”. Several of us here tried to point out the pitfalls of instituting individual achievements that disincline players to pursue team objectives, but ANet didn’t understand their own game enough to realize how badly this would undermine it. They could have put in place individual achievements that reinforced team goals, but instead they made credit based upon individual kills. That’s just stupid and it’s no wonder that now we just have mobs of players mindlessly fighting in the road for no purpose other than rank and titles. That can be fun at first, but it quickly gets boring and it for sure isn’t WvW.

We must play different games, all I see now is giant balls of people avoiding fights and running to take Objectives, 70 people to kill a road guard and flip a supply camp? Yeah every night. If anything killing someone is the slowest way to rank up. Being a roamer myself I can tell you that once someone is killed once the points they are worth afterwards is garbage.

That is indeed different than what I’ve seen lately. The other night DR and DH fought a totally pointless mass battle on the road between lowlands and SM. It lasted at least an hour and was still going strong when I got bored and left, but nobody seemed interested in doing much of anything else. Lots of action but no result other than rank points. Maybe things will change, but your experience doesn’t sound a whole lot better than mine even though it’s different.

This actually happened a lot before the patch. I still don’t know why. I guess people just think “LOL WE CAN TAKE SM FROM OUR KEEP SO LET’S KEEP PUSHING” and it ends up just becoming a game of push and shove.

People zerged before. People zerg now. Ergo, WXP has nothing to do with it.

You only notice it now because you can actually see the entire zerg.

The only thing that will discourage zerging is to encourage smaller squads. Give benefits to smaller squads. The most obvious benefit would be to disable viewing of allies on the map, and only allow seeing squad allies if in a squad. You know, like any reputable FPS game with squads allows.

Some suggest buffing defense. Theoretically it may prevent cyclic cap trading, but it won’t do anything about the zerg. Instead the zerg will just pound the same tower/keep over and over until it either gives up and goes to another keep/tower, or it wins.

Un-cap the AOE and you will see a significant drop in zergs…trust me.

Un-cap the AOE and you will see a significant drop in zergs…trust me.

No you won’t. You’ll see a significant increase in players with imbalanced AoE builds (oh yay, originality!), and you’ll see zergs adapt by this magical amazing concept known as spreading out.