Guild Wars 2

Regarding the changes

In the positive

1. Roaming has become way more fun
2. Adding stat bonus as a reward is a good step forward
3. Added incentive to WvWvW
4. Use of heights as strategy was factored in during the map design
5. Greatly increased the need for everyone on that particular map to work in unison
6. Surprise tactics by rushing on said occupied point creates anticipatory jitters
7. Some use of water combat is still in-play
8. Felt like I was playing in an entirely new map. It was a good feeling for the stalemate feeling we had in the BL.

In the negative

1. Roaming has become harder for duos or singles
2. Stat Bonus is too much. 25 would be better than 50.
3. Increased Lag reported by all players
4. falling off the map into unintended areas ,i.e. map glitch
5. 3 out of 5 cap points should be increased to 4 out of 5 to balance reward and sacrifice

Overall, I think the WvWvW team are heading in the right direction.

-Fuzz

we already know that wvw is unfair because the server with the most coverage, players, and gold will win. however, there shouldn’t be any special skill trait related to wvw that should advance or put players into advantage like wxp rank masteries, and borderland bloodlust stacks.

those need to go. bring in the skins, the glory, and enjoyment. haha

-
exo’s imo where the best and balanced thing in gw2. ascended should have been implemented that they’re equal to exotics, but only had slots for bonus stats -wvw/fotm/pve.

ppl will still make ascendeds/legendaries/ and there wouldn’t have been so much qq in this sort.

at least we know now what went wrong.

Since you are on a T1 server fighting on mostly even grounds with BG and SoR, you don’t see the Havoc this wreaks on the other tiers… =/

That is basically the way I see it.

I think the stat buff is fine for now but if its an issue once the servers get more organized, I wouldn’t mind a slight adjustment if needed.

Fuzzion.2504:

Regarding the changes

In the positive

1. Roaming has become way more fun
2. Adding stat bonus as a reward is a good step forward
3. Added incentive to WvWvW
4. Use of heights as strategy was factored in during the map design
5. Greatly increased the need for everyone on that particular map to work in unison
6. Surprise tactics by rushing on said occupied point creates anticipatory jitters
7. Some use of water combat is still in-play
8. Felt like I was playing in an entirely new map. It was a good feeling for the stalemate feeling we had in the BL.

In the negative

1. Roaming has become harder for duos or singles
2. Stat Bonus is too much. 25 would be better than 50.
3. Increased Lag reported by all players
4. falling off the map into unintended areas ,i.e. map glitch
5. 3 out of 5 cap points should be increased to 4 out of 5 to balance reward and sacrifice

Overall, I think the WvWvW team are heading in the right direction.

-Fuzz

found the tier 1

Heizero.9183:

Since you are on a T1 server fighting on mostly even grounds with BG and SoR, you don’t see the Havoc this wreaks on the other tiers… =/

Whats going on with the other tiers?

ALso let us not forget the league is kicking in soon, not sure what effect this will have.

Still deciding if the OP is trolling or not, I’ll assume, in good faith, that he is serious.

I fail to see where the added incentive to WvW is? I feel an added incentive to PvE and look at other upcoming games at the moment. Also, isn’t the only use of water to jump from Garrison now?

Isn’t the surprise part due to the fact that adaptation isn’t your strongest suit, which is also why you felt is was an entirely new map?

ptitminou.6489:

Still deciding if the OP is trolling or not, I’ll assume, in good faith, that he is serious.

I fail to see where the added incentive to WvW is? I feel an added incentive to PvE and look at other upcoming games at the moment. Also, isn’t the only use of water to jump from Garrison now?

Isn’t the surprise part due to the fact that adaptation isn’t your strongest suit, which is also why you felt is was an entirely new map?

There are water passages tat can be used to get to the cap points

Its day 1, surprise is sure to sprout from there.

This map change is a welcome change needed to keep WvW moving forward. The question is what is the right stat amount and what number of cap points are necessary.

Look at DAoC RvRvR maps. You will see progression was first hated (NF) but slowly it became accepted.

The issue is that is snowballs the dominant server in the lower tier matchups. Sometimes with the right strategy and coordination we could win underdog fights even outmanned, but now that is starting to become unrealistic and after a day i already see wvw populations dropping on my server because we are getting rolled so hard from an enemy that has +150 to all stats. The incentive to WvW has been demolished as now all people do is look at the coreboard and see that we are completely capped and the enemy ahs all 3 buffs, which most people don’t want to even bother fighting against.

Fuzzion.2504:

Heizero.9183:

Since you are on a T1 server fighting on mostly even grounds with BG and SoR, you don’t see the Havoc this wreaks on the other tiers… =/

Whats going on with the other tiers?

ALso let us not forget the league is kicking in soon, not sure what effect this will have.

You know how much Coverage already skews matches before yesterday’s patch? Well now it is many times worse.

ANet refuses to give Servers any meaningful Outnumbered Buff yet has no problems with over-stacked, already dominant Servers having +150 Stats to all players across all Maps while also getting +3 Points per Stomp while farming/spawn camping/roflstomp zerging any enemy players who decide to try to come out and fight.

I dont overly care about the progression. It does stop people from competing with alts though, which lowers the population in WvW en more, but changing that would not really fix the problem anyways. Just don’t use artillery if you’re below rank 30. Not too hard a concept to grasp.

It would be far better if certain people wouldn’t be dragging groups down just by being there of course, but that is a T1 problem. In my tier, we barely have enough players doing WvW … because there is no incentive. Stats only make it easier for higher populated servers. It’s not that bad because it they were to add incentive and have people play WvW it would actually balance out. It’s just not the change that was needed now because it doesn’t make WvW more competitive and most matchups are predictable.

There’s unfair due to variables which are hard to control, such as population imbalance, gear/trait selection from players, player skills. These are acceptable “unfairness”. But this bonus buff is intentionally, artificially adding “unfairness”. It is adding a handicap for the already strong team. Makes absolutely no sense.

Positive

Fuzzion.2504:

1. Roaming has become way more fun

Without a doubt.

Fuzzion.2504:

7. Some use of water combat is still in-play

In fact, I think the water combat has become much more interesting now. Before people would avoid being caught in the lake for anything but crossing from one shore to another. Now I find myself smoothly transitioning from land to water combat and back while chasing people across and through the canals.

Negative

Fuzzion.2504:

1. Roaming has become harder for duos or singles

Not quite ready to call this yet. We’ve had one day, and the majority of people are still flooding the new area. Given time, I think the population will spread out a bit again and solo/duo roamers won’t find themselves quite so outnumbered. The terrain plays just as well for them as the small groups.

Fuzzion.2504:

2. Stat Bonus is too much. 25 would be better than 50.

That might work. There does have to be some sort of incentive for capturing the the new zones and getting bloodlust besides the points for stomping. The points are good, but they’re really only a big deal for people who have an investment in seeing their server win the week. The majority of PUGs probably aren’t too concerned about picking up two or three points here and there.

There has to be a significant reason for trying to take the caps though, a reason for it to be worth fighting over. I’ve seen this on several occasions in games before, where the benefit from holding an objective wasn’t significant enough, so that the objective as a whole became irrelevant.

Stat boosts are an immediate and tangible buff, so people will pay attention to them. Personally, because of how frequently the buffs change hands and how difficult they are to hold, I don’t see them as imbalancing. But for those who do, I suggest you come up with something equally significant to replace them.

Fuzzion.2504:

5. 3 out of 5 cap points should be increased to 4 out of 5 to balance reward and sacrifice

I think 3/5 works better given the 3-way nature of the game. It means that at any point each side could be closer to gaining their own buff, with a 2-2-1 or a 3-1-1 split.

The stat bonus doesn’t really seem to be much of a factor… I’ve seen it flipping between servers far to rapidly to really decide the match. It’s nice when you have it for a few minutes, then it’s gone…

Keep in mind also… a server that spends too much manpower trying to keep the Bloodlust won’t be defending their structures.

Try going there VOLKON and tell me how many matches are actually balanced so a server can’t afford having too much man power at orbs: http://mos.millenium.org/na/

1) The lag is an issue we are aware of and a result of a bug we will fix as soon as possible.

lol…
sorry i couldn’t resist.. this has been going on for…… EVER!

And the buff… that buff.. i guess we still can’t get rid of flyhacks ey? ^^

ptitminou.6489:

Try going there VOLKON and tell me how many matches are actually balanced so a server can’t afford having too much man power at orbs: http://mos.millenium.org/na/

Six.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

1) The lag is an issue we are aware of and a result of a bug we will fix as soon as possible.

lol…
sorry i couldn’t resist.. this has been going on for…… EVER!

Devon isn’t referring to skill lag and the same lag we have had. He’s talking about the extra lag that came with the patch. Two different issues.

Speak for yourself OP, the general conclusion on forums so far is any type of stat bonus that helps in a fight is a big problem while the changes to the map are pretty positive ^^

“The stat bonus doesn’t really seem to be much of a factor… I’ve seen it flipping between servers far to rapidly to really decide the match.”

Again, this is coming from a (balanced) T1 server. I wish a few devs would try WvW’ing on a server that is losing significantly. Try starting at +35 PPT every prime time and see if you can continue trying.

The fact that Devon responded to this post, were the OP looks extremely happy about patch (compared to rest of forums) is beyond hilarious.

VOLKON.1290:

ptitminou.6489:

Try going there VOLKON and tell me how many matches are actually balanced so a server can’t afford having too much man power at orbs: http://mos.millenium.org/na/

Six.

What the blazes are you smoking?

2 matches are reasonably balanced.
6 matches are blowouts.

75% of matches are freaking gangrape. It’s hard to have a conversation when someone won’t admit that the sky is blue.

Devon nooo noooo a stat buff is a joke in wvwvw.this bloodjoke buff only helps the stronger server to kitten up the smaller servers.in the german forums and community its the same as here the people doesnt want a STAT BUFF.
and common its lagging since realese,my hope that this will fix in future is gone…

Kincaidia.3192:

“The stat bonus doesn’t really seem to be much of a factor… I’ve seen it flipping between servers far to rapidly to really decide the match.”

Again, this is coming from a (balanced) T1 server. I wish a few devs would try WvW’ing on a server that is losing significantly. Try starting at +35 PPT every prime time and see if you can continue trying.

That is true, I am coming from the T1 perspective. But all it takes is a small havoc squad to deny anyone the buff for any period of time. Now, if your server simply doesn’t have the manpower to compete at all then in all actuality it’s not the buffs that are the issue.

I think it would be better if the Bloodlust buff gave buffs to the borderland itself. For example: Increased supply, faster upgrades, stronger Guards, etc

Maybe if a server holds the buff for that BL they get extra supply at any camp they capture on that BL or something along that lines that helps the overall mechanic of the borderland map itself.

I really like the new parts of the map, and I like the direction the Devs are going. I think the points for stomp is an awesome idea.

My problem is with the stat bonuses. I am just really against the unfair advantage that comes with stat bonuses

Kincaidia.3192:

VOLKON.1290:

ptitminou.6489:

Try going there VOLKON and tell me how many matches are actually balanced so a server can’t afford having too much man power at orbs: http://mos.millenium.org/na/

Six.

What the blazes are you smoking?

2 matches are reasonably balanced.
6 matches are blowouts.

75% of matches are freaking gangrape. It’s hard to have a conversation when someone won’t admit that the sky is blue.

At the point in time when I looked (not too long ago), six matches had relatively close PPTs.

VOLKON.1290:

ptitminou.6489:

Try going there VOLKON and tell me how many matches are actually balanced so a server can’t afford having too much man power at orbs: http://mos.millenium.org/na/

Six.

I meant the balanced ones, not the imbalanced ones. I would like to know which 6 right now have any kind of reasonable competition, and why. I just cannot understand which logic you used.

PPT during work hours is MEANINGLESS. Look at the cumulative score. sheesh.

Zikory.6871:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

1) The lag is an issue we are aware of and a result of a bug we will fix as soon as possible.

lol…
sorry i couldn’t resist.. this has been going on for…… EVER!

gangrape? censor? anyone?

pvprewards?

oh and this forum doesn’t censor gangrape XD

Devon isn’t referring to skill lag and the same lag we have had. He’s talking about the extra lag that came with the patch. Two different issues.

Double lol… and a bit of crying too.. you know the kind of hopeless crylaughter…

gangrape
I AM A GOLD SPAMMER. PLEASE REPORT ME BY PRESSING THE REPORT FLAG ICON IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT OF THIS POST!

lol

Lol. Out of hundreds of posts complaining about the buff and offering alternatives and this post praising the buff and asking for minor change only THIS post gets responded to? Seriously. I guess only people that are going along with the changes get listened to.

Also This guy is from T1 where population is not a problem at all. On a server where you are constantly going against superior numbers the new mechanic as destroyed morale.

Luvpie.8350:

Lol. Out of hundreds of posts complaining about the buff and offering alternatives and this post praising the buff and asking for minor change only THIS post gets responded to? Seriously. I guess only people that are going along with the changes get listened to.

Also This guy is from T1 where population is not a problem at all. On a server where you are constantly going against superior numbers the new mechanic as destroyed morale.

Going along with it and trying to find ways to make the situation better is better than banging your head against a brick wall. Bloodlust is here and it probably isn’t going anywhere, so make suggestions on how to improve it instead of randomly raging.

You know what would end this argument? Anet should add to the WvW MAP API the current population.

But they won’t for “marketing” reasons, etc.

Theory: Devon plays on JQ. This would explain a lot.

Regardless, I would be VERY interested in hearing about this alternate buff.

ParaldaWind.4523:

Theory: Devon plays on JQ. This would explain a lot.

That would imply he or anybody of his team play real WvW.

timidobserver.7925:

Luvpie.8350:

Lol. Out of hundreds of posts complaining about the buff and offering alternatives and this post praising the buff and asking for minor change only THIS post gets responded to? Seriously. I guess only people that are going along with the changes get listened to.

Also This guy is from T1 where population is not a problem at all. On a server where you are constantly going against superior numbers the new mechanic as destroyed morale.

Going along with it and trying to find ways to make the situation better is better than banging your head against a brick wall. Bloodlust is here and it probably isn’t going anywhere, so make suggestions on how to improve it instead of randomly raging.

The only thing that will make the situation better with bloodlust is somehow balance the population. How many steps has anet taken in regards to this? How often have they reduced gem price to transfer from very high pop to low pop since release? Instead they make the strong server stronger with this stupid buff. Have we seen any ideas on fixing population gaps which is the main culprit.

AndrewSX.3794:

ParaldaWind.4523:

Theory: Devon plays on JQ. This would explain a lot.

That would imply he or anybody of his team play real WvW.

Well, we did fight 3 of them on SBI yesterday. And none of them were half bad. But keep in mind that just because you don’t see them, doesn’t mean they’re not there. The ANet tag is just a guild tag, one which they can turn off as they please.

The only stat bonus I can live with is when a server is outnumbered. Give them the statbonus, they need it more.

Does anyone else realize that we’re only taking about a perfect damage increase potential of only a couple percent here? Far less than a single weapon hit and easily mitigated through normal means? It’s less than it was going from exotic to ascended items.

ParaldaWind.4523:

Theory: Devon plays on JQ. This would explain a lot.

Regardless, I would be VERY interested in hearing about this alternate buff.

No, I play on JQ and I think Fuzzion and Volkon’s views are just skewed from playing timezones where things are relatively balanced. Last night OCX timezone Blackgate had 2-3 orbs locked down and was pushing a 370+ tick.

I had a few fights with a BG mesmer 3 with 1 orb each and then 1 when he had 2 orbs on me, and 1 with a 3 orb advantage on me…

The practical difference in a fight was that my usual shatter burst combo would be able to down him if I got him at ~60% health, where as when he had 2-3 buffs on me.. He hit like a truck and he would survive damage by 5-10% health and be able to turn around and kill me quickly after healing up.

Will upload the vids if I get time but, NO, this stat bonus needs to be reworked for everyone. T8 to T1.

VOLKON.1290:

Does anyone else realize that we’re only taking about a perfect damage increase potential of only a couple percent here? Far less than a single weapon hit and easily mitigated through normal means? It’s less than it was going from exotic to ascended items.

Its not only damage increase, it’s also defense, crit and what not. However, the main issue is that it doesn’t help any of the outnumbered servers in any way since they have no one to spare to go grab those. The problem is that they didn’t fix the main issue for 75% of servers and added something to make T1 a lil better. If WvW populations were balanced, not many would complain about it, but most servers wind up facing overpopulated servers soon enough to know that the buff makes no sense.

Fuzzion.2504:

1. Adding stat bonus as a reward is a good step forward

Its really not.

VOLKON.1290:

Does anyone else realize that we’re only taking about a perfect damage increase potential of only a couple percent here? Far less than a single weapon hit and easily mitigated through normal means? It’s less than it was going from exotic to ascended items.

1 orb for me instead of 1 orb against me is the difference between me soloing an unupgraded camp without even using my heal and me not only needing my heal, but also my supply crate.

thats HUGE. and its only the effect of 1 orb. 3 is plain ridiculous.

insanemaniac.2456:

VOLKON.1290:

Does anyone else realize that we’re only taking about a perfect damage increase potential of only a couple percent here? Far less than a single weapon hit and easily mitigated through normal means? It’s less than it was going from exotic to ascended items.

1 orb for me instead of 1 orb against me is the difference between me soloing an unupgraded camp without even using my heal and me not only needing my heal, but also my supply crate.

thats HUGE. and its only the effect of 1 orb. 3 is plain ridiculous.

Hmm… I’m going to have to play with the math. I’m sensing large levels of exaggeration here.

I have not played much since the changes as the lag is totally detrimental to my survival but I have a couple observations to make. When facing a much larger force like we are currently on Henge with IoJ the stat bonuses make it much easier for the enemy to overwhelm you.

We had more then enough people yesterday and more then enough siege to fight off a much larger force at Hills under normal circumstances but were unable to hold onto it as the enemy had the stat bonuses from all maps.

A smaller server is unable to devote a team dedicated to hanging on to the capture points in their BL much less send teams to the other BLs if one of their keeps is under attack. It would be better for instance if the capture points were “locked” down in a Borderland whenever swords are up on a keep or tower. That would introduce a bit more strategy to the game. Servers with overwhelming numbers would not have to worry about those points but to a defending server they would be beneficial. As it is currently, with no timer on the points, we had a small team running in circles recapturing the points from a much larger zerg as soon as they left to go to the next one. We then had to abandon that effort to go and defend our keeps.

I do wish these bonuses were reworked in such a way that the HOME team ( a team in their own bl) had a better bonus/chance at a bonus, for that map then an invading army. The defense of one’s homeland will always make people fight harder and better even against those overwhelming forces but here it is just the opposite. The smaller server is punished for not having the people.

I don’t want to get into the whole league discussion and how the servers stack up. In my mind if you enjoy the game then you enjoy the good and bad that comes with it. Change alone isn’t the reason to leave or hold a protest.

For me the issue that I am struggling with is how does a single or solo player show any sign of contribution? Furthermore, how does the leaderboard reflect this individuals assistance? It doesn’t. The reward for single/solo or small tactical group play in the new area isn’t felt or shown outside the buff.

I’d like to see the leaderboards updated to reflect kills, time holding capture points, defending, supply used, stomps, etc. Something that shows the weekly top 25, top monthly, by class, by server, by guild, etc. That way I don’t need to worry about gear or anything else because it will work itself out.

That is about it for me. I really with the leaderboards had more oomph. The new WvW content, I’m ok with and it fits my playstyle. Just missing personal satisfaction or rewards I guess.

VOLKON.1290:

Does anyone else realize that we’re only taking about a perfect damage increase potential of only a couple percent here? Far less than a single weapon hit and easily mitigated through normal means? It’s less than it was going from exotic to ascended items.

Nope. Not even close. It’s like everyone on the opposing side suddenly has the stats of more than 3 exotic celestial chest pieces( +45 to each stat per piece), minus the additional crit damage.

Think about that. Do you not bother repairing when you have a broken piece of armor? Good god no.

Every orb that your opponent has that you don’t roughly like one of YOUR pieces of exotic armor is broken.

Kincaidia.3192:

VOLKON.1290:

Does anyone else realize that we’re only taking about a perfect damage increase potential of only a couple percent here? Far less than a single weapon hit and easily mitigated through normal means? It’s less than it was going from exotic to ascended items.

Nope. Not even close. It’s like everyone on the opposing side suddenly has the stats of more than 3 exotic celestial chest pieces( +45 to each stat per piece), minus the additional crit damage.

Think about that. Do you not bother repairing when you have a broken piece of armor? Good god no.

Every orb that your opponent has that you don’t roughly like one of YOUR pieces of exotic armor is broken.

Should I tell you tales of drunk, naked WvW nights and the bodies we’ve left in our wake?

Volkon played for a bit on a server that didn’t have 100% coverage, he left to go back to JQ.
He didn’t like the coverage holes.
You can see his perspective from that set of moves.