Guild Wars 2

outnumbered players have 5 players skill cap. outnumbering players have 1 player skill cap.

That would be pretty darn unfair when a roamer from the outnumbering side meet 5 players on the outnumbered side.

why? and also, lets balance game for roamers.

Over the years I have advocated for a “Crowded” debuf that causes 15+ players in close proximity to run a bit slower, have slighly reduced range, suffer a small DPS penalty, etc. This debuf would scale so 50+ players would have a larger debuf than 15+ players versus 10 players or less seeing no debuf at all. This would even the scales a tad against out numbered groups and bring a bit more strategy to large scale fights.

Agreed with Dawdler.

If you’re going to change the Outnumbered buff to affect the numbers game, you should at least leave things un-affected in a 5vs5 fight.

I’ve suggested before to change so that if you’re outnumbered, your skills affect more targets (7-10 targets), carry more supplies, and use supplies faster etc. Outnumbered should get bonuses to defending (somehow), and to reduce some of the advantage a larger group has by target saturation (because of the 5 target max limit).

But in general, ANet is not going to implement anything that gives an actual advantage in a fight of equal numbers. a 1vs1, or 5vs5 or 10vs10 should be fair.

Straegen.2938:

Over the years I have advocated for a “Crowded” debuf that causes 15+ players in close proximity to run a bit slower, have slighly reduced range, suffer a small DPS penalty, etc. This debuf would scale so 50+ players would have a larger debuf than 15+ players versus 10 players or less seeing no debuf at all. This would even the scales a tad against out numbered groups and bring a bit more strategy to large scale fights.

Or we just let the outnumbered buff give a stacking +10% movement speed bonus. So if they have swiftness on they get 43% speed buff. Whatever their current speed is it gets upped by 10 basically, so everyone benefits. Bringing their max speed as high as 160%.

I mean the old commander aura’s kept larger groups very blobby and by effect: slow, and docile to lesser threats. I don’t really wanna go back to that though. I’d rather see them retain independence among their ranks. IF we go the opposite and punish the stats of the blob it might cause them to break ranks a bit more and allow the kind of stuff u talked about where the breaked ranks present more even numbered fights for organized outnumbered groups. I don’t see them doing it though. Cause it takes away from the individual player, and they have always been against that kind of stuff. So I think the +10 for the outnumbered would be easier for them to put in. I could live with either though.

Cerby.1069:

Or we just let the outnumbered buff give a stacking +10% movement speed bonus. So if they have swiftness on they get 43% speed buff. Whatever their current speed is it gets upped by 10 basically, so everyone benefits. Bringing their max speed as high as 160%.

Any such boon would be unfair in certain scenarios. Again, GG being a slow class meeting a Thief with 60% speed in 1v1. Outnumbered doesnt automaticly mean every fight is unbalanced.

Something that give an advantage for the outnumbered side could be Siegerazer events vs border towers, camps and the closest keep. And I’m not talking a kittenty champ and his donkey. 20 decent NPCs marching out to help outnumbered players cap a keep. When it comes to PvE, this is the type of player involvement WvW should have, not kittened item collection quests that make all gates go boom or barricades.

How about if you’re outnumbered, all of your supplies are twice as effective? So you’d double your ability to build siege and repair, and your yaks would effectively double the speed of the upgrades. Someone suggested something similar to this years ago, and it sounded like a decent idea to me. Though, personally, I would have been happy if they just swapped the outmanned buff for the orb buff, and left the orbs in. Of course, they would have actually had to fix the exploits and ban the hackers for that to work, so it was little more than a pipe dream.

Phantom.8130:

How about if you’re outnumbered, all of your supplies are twice as effective? So you’d double your ability to build siege and repair, and your yaks would effectively double the speed of the upgrades. Someone suggested something similar to this years ago, and it sounded like a decent idea to me. Though, personally, I would have been happy if they just swapped the outmanned buff for the orb buff, and left the orbs in. Of course, they would have actually had to fix the exploits and ban the hackers for that to work, so it was little more than a pipe dream.

sounds ok, but, that is a “passive” outnumbered buff, meaning when your outnumbered your brain tells you to defend every last remaining territory you have till every towers/keep/camp you own are captured by enemy, that change only slows the capping time for an enemy.
try to change that to an “active” one meaning you have a chance to make a decision whether to defend every stronghold you have or kill every one that takes your land and get good points to it.
your suggestion is good one though

Norbe.7630:

Phantom.8130:

How about if you’re outnumbered, all of your supplies are twice as effective? So you’d double your ability to build siege and repair, and your yaks would effectively double the speed of the upgrades. Someone suggested something similar to this years ago, and it sounded like a decent idea to me. Though, personally, I would have been happy if they just swapped the outmanned buff for the orb buff, and left the orbs in. Of course, they would have actually had to fix the exploits and ban the hackers for that to work, so it was little more than a pipe dream.

sounds ok, but, that is a “passive” outnumbered buff, meaning when your outnumbered your brain tells you to defend every last remaining territory you have till every towers/keep/camp you own are captured by enemy, that change only slows the capping time for an enemy.
try to change that to an “active” one meaning you have a chance to make a decision whether to defend every stronghold you have or kill every one that takes your land and get good points to it.
your suggestion is good one though

Well, it kind of works both ways. Because you’d be able to build offensive siege at half the supply cost too, so you’d essentially be able to get double the amount built in the same time frame, and that would give an advantage for taking areas as well. If the areas on the new maps were still within treb range of each other, being able to set up a treb for 50 in a tower, and 2 superior catapults for 25 each (or omegas for 55 each) would definitely make things a lot easier to retake your northern keep.

Couple in the defensive factor, and you should at least be able to hold/retake your northern third on your home BL, and your third in EB. Looking a bit deeper, that would give a fair amount of PPT, so matchups would, in theory, end up being a bit closer overall. At least as far as the score is concerned. That would help bring back the competitive factor. It certainly wouldn’t be enough on its own, but it would serve as a piece of the overall puzzle.

Phantom.8130:

Norbe.7630:

Phantom.8130:

How about if you’re outnumbered, all of your supplies are twice as effective? So you’d double your ability to build siege and repair, and your yaks would effectively double the speed of the upgrades. Someone suggested something similar to this years ago, and it sounded like a decent idea to me. Though, personally, I would have been happy if they just swapped the outmanned buff for the orb buff, and left the orbs in. Of course, they would have actually had to fix the exploits and ban the hackers for that to work, so it was little more than a pipe dream.

sounds ok, but, that is a “passive” outnumbered buff, meaning when your outnumbered your brain tells you to defend every last remaining territory you have till every towers/keep/camp you own are captured by enemy, that change only slows the capping time for an enemy.
try to change that to an “active” one meaning you have a chance to make a decision whether to defend every stronghold you have or kill every one that takes your land and get good points to it.
your suggestion is good one though

Well, it kind of works both ways. Because you’d be able to build offensive siege at half the supply cost too, so you’d essentially be able to get double the amount built in the same time frame, and that would give an advantage for taking areas as well. If the areas on the new maps were still within treb range of each other, being able to set up a treb for 50 in a tower, and 2 superior catapults for 25 each (or omegas for 55 each) would definitely make things a lot easier to retake your northern keep.

Couple in the defensive factor, and you should at least be able to hold/retake your northern third on your home BL, and your third in EB. Looking a bit deeper, that would give a fair amount of PPT, so matchups would, in theory, end up being a bit closer overall. At least as far as the score is concerned. That would help bring back the competitive factor. It certainly wouldn’t be enough on its own, but it would serve as a piece of the overall puzzle.

Unfortunetly its ripe for abuse. Imagine if a side hold an entire abandoned border, then a small group port in and make them outnumbered… now start churning out siege. And then when you have 10 arrowcarts on every gate in garrison, your border zerg is clear to hop in and destroy them.