Guild Wars 2

Epidemic overpower in wvw
In PVE MAP, each boss at least have 1000000hp
however in WVW map each people only have 1-40000 hp
epi ez to kill anyone ,cuz neco only need to use epi who down on the ground
i can said that who can look at the mon and use their mouse, they already can use that skill to kill everyone. it is unbalance for other class

I agree it’s too strong right now, but honestly, it just needs 1 change

Make it blockable

A 20 second cooldown unblockable skill like epidemic is stupid

More condis, more meta.

Yes let’s nerf one of weakest skills in game. Nobody even play condi necro in WvW.

there is so much aoe condi cleanse… after 1 second cast time there are max. 2 conditions left that could be spread… so op ! lol

Oh yes nurf epi and open BG WvW fixed.

here is a better idea

lets delete necros for the good of the game!

Make Guard Wars 2 Great Again!!

Junkpile.7439:

Yes let’s nerf one of weakest skills in game. Nobody even play condi necro in WvW.

Epi is absolutely stupid in wvw when used right. People are down in 1 or 2 tics…before cleanse can even save them. Epi bounce is nasty and puts out crazy pressure even through cleanse.

Nerfing it would be really tough on necros though. Maybe nerf epi off of siege and tower/keep lords. Limit stacks transferred. It should still hurt but epi bouncing shouldn’t be able to wipe people out like it can.

As it is, resistance is the best way to counter coordinated epi bombs but that just lets them stack condis up so the epis wreck the poor idiots that get their resistance corrupted.

Nah, the damage on epi is fine, my group can sustain through several epi bombs in a row no problem if we coordinate our cleanses well enough, but the problem I find is that it has no counterplay. It’s unblockable. You don’t even need a brain to press the epidemic button. Make it blockable and increase the cast time by like 0.25 seconds, it will balance itself out.

There are many ways to manage condis, and a good epi isn’t even that easy to land. Let’s QQ about every meta change until we can only do direct auto-attack damage without crits !

Reverence.6915:

Nah, the damage on epi is fine, my group can sustain through several epi bombs in a row no problem if we coordinate our cleanses well enough, but the problem I find is that it has no counterplay. It’s unblockable. You don’t even need a brain to press the epidemic button. Make it blockable and increase the cast time by like 0.25 seconds, it will balance itself out.

It has already a long casttime and an obvious animation, which makes it not that easy to pull of a good epi bomb, because the target might dodge or moves out of range, or you get blinded or the target dies or it can get cleansed before the cast is finished, which will negate most if not all dmg from this skill. Epi requires a lot more timing and coordination than any other aoe skill and there is tons of counterplay. It doesn’t need to be countered by random aegis procs in addition. It is only easy to use if you can epi siege or lords, but not against actual players.

If you get stuck up with condis on you far too often then you’re obviously doing something very wrong and it’s not the reason to come and complain on forums each time you get your butt kicked.

If this skill gets an unreasonable block then this game can be thrown straight in the bin.
I already observe something very disturbing when trying to land condis on people: “IMMUNE”. How the kitten can you be immune to a non-physical skill?! That’s just out of this world. Condis shouldn’t be blockable, they are like a disease, a plague, they are supposed to weaken you, they ignore armor which is perfect reasoning how they should operate thus should NEVER be blockable. This is why you have resistance.

Then you have foods, runes, sigils for cleansing, jesus christ;

Guards are OP, nobody gives a kitten; Warriors’ adrenal health heals so much using a healing skill is obsolete, plus the amount of condi cleanse they have is beyond normal, yet you come here complain about Epidemic? – a strategic skill the necro needs?

GTFO of here man

@OP if u find epidemic OP, 2 things, u dont run condi cleanses or your group or commander needs to improve.

Condi bombs are super strong, it is not the stronger AOE bomb in the game, migh be the one that puts more pressure if your group dont have GIMMICK durability runes, and people cleasing conditions.

Some conditions need to be looked at, they pass trough certain things that shouldnt pass but that is another diferent story….

Necros are super easy on 1 vs 1…. due the power creep that is possible in alot of weapn classes and utilities.
They might be almost as a free bag as a vanilla guardian.. lol, sometimes a wild good necro apears but that is 1 in 100…

Junkpile.7439:

Yes let’s nerf one of weakest skills in game. Nobody even play condi necro in WvW.

L O L

Packit.8576:

Junkpile.7439:

Yes let’s nerf one of weakest skills in game. Nobody even play condi necro in WvW.

L O L

Shh bby its just the people who don’t roam outside of 20+ talking. Let them think what they want.

As some have said, it has a pretty significant cast time which can make it unreliable to use. 8 out of 10 times my target will dodge, cleanse, down or be completely defeated before I can get the full cast off. I try to save Epi for downed targets since they can’t dodge or cleanse but if you don’t play Necro, you’d be surprised how often they die or get hit with an AOE cleanse before you get the cast off. Better yet, you get CC’d in the middle of the cast.

Considering the cast time, how many blocks are going around in zergs and relatively high Resistance uptime, I think the Unblockable component on Epidemic is okay.

If it’s going to receive a nerf… Which I really don’t believe it needs, I think the best way to balance it would be to reduce the radius. It has a pretty large area of effect for being Unblockable and potentially extremely deadly. While it can be a very strong skill, like Meteor Shower for example, there are a lot factors that make it insignificant more often than devastating. You don’t need a brain to press Epi, I can agree with the poster that said that, but you definitely need some know-how on choosing the right targets.

Found out last night that epidemic can be used off siege since they now take condis. It definitely needs to be nerfed.

Helly.2597:

Packit.8576:

Junkpile.7439:

Yes let’s nerf one of weakest skills in game. Nobody even play condi necro in WvW.

L O L

Shh bby its just the people who don’t roam outside of 20+ talking. Let them think what they want.

What you say that epidemic is problem in smaller fights? Why don’t you just intterupt cast? Need to remember that you can clearly see who is targeted when necro start to cast epidemic and you have time to dodge.

Give it the “boon share” treatment where it only copies specific conditions, and for the duration specified in the skill.

This normalizes the effect and eliminates the extremes (epi tower boss anyone?)

Tbh epidemic is fine where its at. It does what its meant to do. Its the condi damage that needs a nerf.

CrimeMaker.8612:

Tbh epidemic is fine where its at. It does what its meant to do. Its the condi damage that needs a nerf.

Well if they nerf condi dmg then they need to boost condi skills and nerf condi cleanse.

1. Need limit to 5 player.
2. necro epidemic so imba now, 15+stack burn 15+ stack Bleed, 15+ stack confused AOE at wvw

morrolan.9608:

Found out last night that epidemic can be used off siege since they now take condis. It definitely needs to be nerfed.

This. Epi is an unblockable range 1200 skill with a low cd. In many cases the cast time isn’t an issue. Epi off siege/high hp npcs or epi bouncing makes the skill crazy for people that use it right. In most cases it’s not op at all but some cases could be addressed.

Jerry CCH.9816:

1. Need limit to 5 player.
2. necro epidemic so imba now, 15+stack burn 15+ stack Bleed, 15+ stack confused AOE at wvw

Oh my god. It’s 5 target skill already and has been since launch. Unblockable is like only boost since launch.

Version history
Changes
June 23, 2015 Specialization update:

With the changes to condition stacking, Epidemic now only applies up to 25 stacks of any given condition. Increased recharge to 20 seconds.

July 01, 2014
Added a missing skill fact for number of targets (5).

April 30, 2013
Now unblockable.

March 26, 2013
Now requires line of sight of the main target to spread conditions to nearby enemies.

October 01, 2012
This skill no longer has infinite range.

Junkpile.7439:

What you say that epidemic is problem in smaller fights? Why don’t you just intterupt cast? Need to remember that you can clearly see who is targeted when necro start to cast epidemic and you have time to dodge.

Calling it in your words, " One of the weakest skills in the game," was what I found ridiculous . I think epidemic is decently balanced currently. Situationally useful, with multiple ways to counter play and with a good/great reward for hitting a good one.

Junkpile.7439:

CrimeMaker.8612:

Tbh epidemic is fine where its at. It does what its meant to do. Its the condi damage that needs a nerf.

Well if they nerf condi dmg then they need to boost condi skills and nerf condi cleanse.

They just need to take out runes of durability in that process, and most conditions are actually fine just a very few ones need to be checked but the same goes to some gimmicks that carry the players, meanwhile the spam of aoe/cleave splashing arorund is much worse than deal with conditions, almost everything is cleave and aoe….

WvW is just stack as much gimmcik aoe classes u can, and ktrain the freaking maps…

Aeolus.3615:

Junkpile.7439:

CrimeMaker.8612:

Tbh epidemic is fine where its at. It does what its meant to do. Its the condi damage that needs a nerf.

Well if they nerf condi dmg then they need to boost condi skills and nerf condi cleanse.

They just need to take out runes of durability in that process, and most conditions are actually fine just a very few ones need to be checked but the same goes to some gimmicks that carry the players, meanwhile the spam of aoe/cleave splashing arorund is much worse than deal with conditions, almost everything is cleave and aoe….

WvW is just stack as much gimmcik aoe classes u can, and ktrain the freaking maps…

Played GS berserker couple days ago and it’s just ridiculous. You don’t even have to have any idea how to play and you still contribute 10 times more than condi users. Berserker mode on F1, spam some other skills, F1, spam some other skills and F1.

Junkpile.7439:

Aeolus.3615:

Junkpile.7439:

CrimeMaker.8612:

Tbh epidemic is fine where its at. It does what its meant to do. Its the condi damage that needs a nerf.

Well if they nerf condi dmg then they need to boost condi skills and nerf condi cleanse.

They just need to take out runes of durability in that process, and most conditions are actually fine just a very few ones need to be checked but the same goes to some gimmicks that carry the players, meanwhile the spam of aoe/cleave splashing arorund is much worse than deal with conditions, almost everything is cleave and aoe….

WvW is just stack as much gimmcik aoe classes u can, and ktrain the freaking maps…

Played GS berserker couple days ago and it’s just ridiculous. You don’t even have to have any idea how to play and you still contribute 10 times more than condi users. Berserker mode on F1, spam some other skills, F1, spam some other skills and F1.

Sounds something that fits well this game full of skilled players.

If you are zerging, tell your revs to spam pain absorption if you are dying to epi bombs.

I agree that epi is OP, but in pve, not wvw.

Junkpile.7439:

Yes let’s nerf one of weakest skills in game. Nobody even play condi necro in WvW.

best joke I saw this month, thanks.

Epi is over performing with the advent of the condi meta. Nerf condi+sustain, or nerf epi and a few over performing skills like it. (I prefer the former, but I’m a kitten dreamer.)

Epi is over-performing in wvw. Make it blockable, reduce stacks, reduce duration, something, please. It’s ridiculous.

I was against this till I experienced it today. 20 reapers in JQ’s zerg all using epidemic utility. Hits like a mac truck and is very effective when used right. I can see why players are disliking it.

RodOfDeath.5247:

I was against this till I experienced it today. 20 reapers in JQ’s zerg all using epidemic utility. Hits like a mac truck and is very effective when used right. I can see why players are disliking it.

yer but it was introduced to the game for a reason. this is the reason. it’s mass contagion, it is supposed to do what it is doing – mass infestation.

if anything, decrease condi power but equally nerf condi cleanses of classes like warriors and guards.

I hate to see IMMUNE whenever I cast a condition on someone. it is not a physical skill that should be blockable!

I reckon if the copied conditions scaled off the condition damage of their original source rather than the Necro’s it would make the skill more balanced. Right now epi gains a huge amount of free condition damage from nearby classes that don’t even have to spec for it.

Inoki.6048:

RodOfDeath.5247:

I was against this till I experienced it today. 20 reapers in JQ’s zerg all using epidemic utility. Hits like a mac truck and is very effective when used right. I can see why players are disliking it.

yer but it was introduced to the game for a reason. this is the reason. it’s mass contagion, it is supposed to do what it is doing – mass infestation.

if anything, decrease condi power but equally nerf condi cleanses of classes like warriors and guards.

I hate to see IMMUNE whenever I cast a condition on someone. it is not a physical skill that should be blockable!

Oh don’t get me wrong, I love the skill as a main necro for small scale fighting. But it is rather annoying to see immune. It’s like poking someone with a dirty needle contaminated with the plague and the person says “I don’t think so, I drank orange juice today!”.

You should play Daredevil Infinity evade
One condi Daredevil can kill 5 enemies by using dodge and jump and dodge

RodOfDeath.5247:

I was against this till I experienced it today. 20 reapers in JQ’s zerg all using epidemic utility. Hits like a mac truck and is very effective when used right. I can see why players are disliking it.

Well, you can always say some skill or ability is OP when 20 enemies spam the same thing. If 20 eles hit you with meteor storm at the same time, would that be OP? Granted this example shows how a large, coordinated group can skillfully use an ability that has the potential for damage going parabolic, but its still kind of a gimic, and is therefore easily countered. There are usually enough revs that can spam pain absorption that this kind of uber epi bomb would only work once.

Osu.6307:

RodOfDeath.5247:

I was against this till I experienced it today. 20 reapers in JQ’s zerg all using epidemic utility. Hits like a mac truck and is very effective when used right. I can see why players are disliking it.

Well, you can always say some skill or ability is OP when 20 enemies spam the same thing. If 20 eles hit you with meteor storm at the same time, would that be OP? Granted this example shows how a large, coordinated group can skillfully use an ability that has the potential for damage going parabolic, but its still kind of a gimic, and is therefore easily countered. There are usually enough revs that can spam pain absorption that this kind of uber epi bomb would only work once.

Look outside the box though. There’s a reason why there’s “20 reapers” using this skill right now as opposed to “20 eles” spamming meteor shower. One is vastly superior to the other. (Epidemic.) If meteor shower were better, or even equal as you assert, then we’d see 20 eles instead of the 20 reapers. All I’m saying is that the meta is epidemic. And there’s barely any counters to it when you stack reapers/necros. One necro with 1 epi is fine. 5 necros with 5 epis is exponentially dangerous. The same is not true with meteor shower.

Also, pain absorption doesn’t really counter epidemic. In fact it helps it a LOT. All a reaper has to do is find the mallyx rev in the group and light him up. He’ll spam his resistance, pull all the condis to him, and then the necro will epi him, making the necros job far easier. It’s counter-intuitive.. Let’s not forget about the abundant boon stripping necros have. (Not that I have a problem with boon stripping.. It’s just that a mallyx rev is quite the opposite of a ‘counter’ to a necro with a brain.)

20 hammer reves could COR 20 necros down before they even get epidemic range.

Junkpile.7439:

CrimeMaker.8612:

Tbh epidemic is fine where its at. It does what its meant to do. Its the condi damage that needs a nerf.

Well if they nerf condi dmg then they need to boost condi skills and nerf condi cleanse.

Pretty much this. A nerf to condi damage has to lead to a nerf for condi cleanse and a heavy nerf to boons. With this happening they will have to tone down direct damage too to balance the whole thing again and we end up where? I don’t know.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Look outside the box though. There’s a reason why there’s “20 reapers” using this skill right now as opposed to “20 eles” spamming meteor shower. One is vastly superior to the other. (Epidemic.) If meteor shower were better, or even equal as you assert, then we’d see 20 eles instead of the 20 reapers. All I’m saying is that the meta is epidemic. And there’s barely any counters to it when you stack reapers/necros. One necro with 1 epi is fine. 5 necros with 5 epis is exponentially dangerous. The same is not true with meteor shower.

Been there, done that. The old meta was less stupid? Everyone running berserker and bomb with wells/marks and meteor while the melee stunned everything around them.
How was this more favorable?
There was no counter to it

I prefer the actual meta.

Stealth overpower in wvw
In PVE MAP, each boss at least have 1000000hp
however in WVW map each people only have 1-40000 hp
stealth ez to kill anyone ,cuz thief only need to use stealth who down on the ground
i can said that who can look at the mon and use their mouse, they already can use that skill to kill everyone. it is unbalance for other class

shagwell.1349:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Look outside the box though. There’s a reason why there’s “20 reapers” using this skill right now as opposed to “20 eles” spamming meteor shower. One is vastly superior to the other. (Epidemic.) If meteor shower were better, or even equal as you assert, then we’d see 20 eles instead of the 20 reapers. All I’m saying is that the meta is epidemic. And there’s barely any counters to it when you stack reapers/necros. One necro with 1 epi is fine. 5 necros with 5 epis is exponentially dangerous. The same is not true with meteor shower.

Been there, done that. The old meta was less stupid? Everyone running berserker and bomb with wells/marks and meteor while the melee stunned everything around them.
How was this more favorable?
There was no counter to it

I prefer the actual meta.

Do you know what the counter was? Pop stability and don’t stand in wells/showers. There’s 0 tells for epidemic. You’re not even addressing the argument either. You’re just saying “Well the old meta was dumb. Also, epidemic is what I prefer, so therefore it is not overpowered.” Logic fail.

The Game Slayer.7632:

shagwell.1349:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Look outside the box though. There’s a reason why there’s “20 reapers” using this skill right now as opposed to “20 eles” spamming meteor shower. One is vastly superior to the other. (Epidemic.) If meteor shower were better, or even equal as you assert, then we’d see 20 eles instead of the 20 reapers. All I’m saying is that the meta is epidemic. And there’s barely any counters to it when you stack reapers/necros. One necro with 1 epi is fine. 5 necros with 5 epis is exponentially dangerous. The same is not true with meteor shower.

Been there, done that. The old meta was less stupid? Everyone running berserker and bomb with wells/marks and meteor while the melee stunned everything around them.
How was this more favorable?
There was no counter to it

I prefer the actual meta.

Do you know what the counter was? Pop stability and don’t stand in wells/showers. There’s 0 tells for epidemic. You’re not even addressing the argument either. You’re just saying “Well the old meta was dumb. Also, epidemic is what I prefer, so therefore it is not overpowered.” Logic fail.

You saying that you won’t see that black “smoke” effect at target when necro start to casting epidemic?

Junkpile.7439:

The Game Slayer.7632:

shagwell.1349:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Look outside the box though. There’s a reason why there’s “20 reapers” using this skill right now as opposed to “20 eles” spamming meteor shower. One is vastly superior to the other. (Epidemic.) If meteor shower were better, or even equal as you assert, then we’d see 20 eles instead of the 20 reapers. All I’m saying is that the meta is epidemic. And there’s barely any counters to it when you stack reapers/necros. One necro with 1 epi is fine. 5 necros with 5 epis is exponentially dangerous. The same is not true with meteor shower.

Been there, done that. The old meta was less stupid? Everyone running berserker and bomb with wells/marks and meteor while the melee stunned everything around them.
How was this more favorable?
There was no counter to it

I prefer the actual meta.

Do you know what the counter was? Pop stability and don’t stand in wells/showers. There’s 0 tells for epidemic. You’re not even addressing the argument either. You’re just saying “Well the old meta was dumb. Also, epidemic is what I prefer, so therefore it is not overpowered.” Logic fail.

You saying that you won’t see that black “smoke” effect at target when necro start to casting epidemic?

Your point is only valid if necro wells and meteor shower did all their damage at once. The only way to avoid meteor shower and necro wells is to watch for the casting animation, right? No. That’s absurd.

That last comment actually gave me another idea for epidemic.

It could be changed to “Foe becomes corrupted. 600 radius. Copies foes current conditions to other foes at a rate of 1 condition a second until all selected conditions are copied.” Now THAT’S reasonable.

when you say 1 condition a second, im just going to assume that the stacks of that condition applies to,
what if you get hit by an epi with a full line of condis that are 10+ stacks, are u suppose to waste your condi cleanse on the first full stack of condi, or wait until all those condi and their stacks are on you and waste that condi cleanse, im pretty sure youd be dead waiting for the condis to show up one by one before cleansing.

ex, the first condi is 15+ bleed stacks, u cleanse that and the next line was a 10+ burn stack, and other condis follow

Rageout.7295:

when you say 1 condition a second, im just going to assume that the stacks of that condition applies to,
what if you get hit by an epi with a full line of condis that are 10+ stacks, are u suppose to waste your condi cleanse on the first full stack of condi, or wait until all those condi and their stacks are on you and waste that condi cleanse, im pretty sure youd be dead waiting for the condis to show up one by one before cleansing.

ex, the first condi is 15+ bleed stacks, u cleanse that and the next line was a 10+ burn stack, and other condis follow

You are correct in assuming how that suggestion would work. The idea is that you would have to use your cleanse a few seconds in and try to move away from the corrupted ally to prevent further condi application. Also, landing an epi on someone like that would be pretty hard considering that the player would go down before all the condis would be transferred.

Condi is a reaction to mitigation ramp. Condi became viable because mitigation is so stupidly good now, that small man glass groups just are not effective at all. Anyone proposing condi be nerfed when it’s just a symptom are asking for an EVEN SLOWER meta. Conditions are the last line to countering the main problem.

If you instead focus your attention on a world of non-HoT mitigation and healing, then glass comes back. Glass comes back, condi groups simply don’t have relevent ramp damage comparatively. The difference between now and classic GW2 re: condi usage is that glass groups kept condi groups in serious check if equal skill levels*.

*Also if people realized that Resistance is in no way a counter to condi. It was so much harder putting conditions on good groups that use actual cleanses. That actually requires more group coordination though so people will just keep thinking pumping Resistance will save them from epis.

Epi is stupid OP in the right hands… just fight one group of tRex in Koda tonics and tell me I am wrong. 25 stacks of just about every condi in the game in one shot from a well coordinated attack.